Tarrasque v Lucifer


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Spinning off from this thread we pit this classic, the Tarrasque versus the most over powered thing I can find (even though his stat block is unimaginative) Lucifer

The question is, can the Tarrasque win? (@DM_Blake) How easily does Lucifer dominate?

Word pictures GO!


Tarrasque all the way. It has decent melee and mind affect immunity. It only has a problem if lucifer got a chance to start summoning before the battle.

Sovereign Court

Lucifer can even summon during the battle, which is frankly his only saving grace in that fight. His ac is high enough that the Tarrasque needs to roll a nat 20 just to hit him.


Lets ask the real question: Is there any safe way for my character to observe the fight?

Or the even better question: If the Tarrasque wins then does it become the lord of hell? What powers does it gain from this? How doomed would that make us?


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I don't really want to be the lord of hell.

Although, I would have LOTS of tasty crunchy chewy devils to eat for all eternity, so that's a plus.

So I take it back; I DO want to be the lord of all-you-can-eat-devils, er, uh, I mean hell. Yeah.


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Lucifier only misses the tarraque on a 1. After power attacking (which should be -13 for +13/26/39 if I have it right), Lucifer's attack routine with no buffs at all:

Huge +6 trident +58/+53/+48/+43 (3d6+67), bite +49 (2d8+20 plus 1d8 acid), sting +49 (2d8+20 plus poison) or 2 claws +51 (2d6+40 plus 1d8 acid), bite +51 (2d8+40 plus 1d8 acid), sting +49 (2d8+20 plus poison)

So assuming no crits, about 368 damage a round with the trident or 174 a round if unarmed.

In short, if Lucifer does nothing more than just walking up to the tarrasque and stab it into submission, he should flatten it in 2 rounds or so without getting scratched.

Lucifer could conceivably win in a single full attack if he bothered to buff.

This isn't much of a contest =P


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It can end in two ways;
1) Lucifer drops the Tarrasque, then he calls the barbarian orc posse from the Beastmass so they can keep him down. Until orcs die of old age.
2) The Tarrasque, being unkillable, just has to wait until he gets, let's say, 50 natural consecutive 20s on dices. Math says that it might take some time before this happens, but that's not the Tarrasque's problem. He doesn't understand math either.


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I eat maths!

I always win...


Hmm. Interesting. But can Lucifer keep the bad beast down?


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Well, if he's being responsible, then he pops a couple wishes to make a permanent demiplane, and then offensively plane shifts the tarrasque to its new prison.

If he's not being responsible, then he just offensively plane shifts the tarrasque to where it can be someone else's problem.


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Zhangar wrote:

Well, if he's being responsible, then he pops a couple wishes to make a permanent demiplane, and then offensively plane shifts the tarrasque to its new prison.

If he's not being responsible, then he just offensively plane shifts the tarrasque to where it can be someone else's problem.

Such as Hell? :D


Lucy's magic super-artifact can cast Trap the Soul, even if it couldn't his Wish spell can fake it. In combat Lucifer wins with his unimaginative and overpowered statblock until he can get away, prep a "no save, no spell resistance" version of Trap the Soul, and throw it down Mr. T's gullet.

Trap the Soul is the only trump spell option that Mr. T was not rendered immune to, and to my knowledge is the only thing that keeps the beastie permanently locked away. Not to mention it makes him portable when you decide to sell him as a biological weapon.


Unassuming Local Guy wrote:
Hmm. Interesting. But can Lucifer keep the bad beast down?

I've got a solution, which transcend time;

PREPARATION

1) Find 2 22 Strenght guys. Any will do.
2) Put those item on them, and make them fail the save.

Shackles of Durance Vile:
These masterwork iron manacles sap the will of their wearer. When they are attached to a humanoid creature as their command word is spoken, they affect their prisoner with a dominate person spell, except that if the prisoner fails its saving throw, the effect lasts for as long as the shackles are attached. Removing or destroying the shackles immediately breaks the enchantment. The shackles can be so used once per day. Shackles of durance vile can only be activated against a helpless, restrained, or willing creature; if attached to a creature still able to resist they function only as manacles, albeit superior ones. Shackles of durance vile have hardness 15, 20 hit points, and a superior lock. They have a break DC of 30 and an Escape Artist DC of 35.

3) Give them two Ring(s) of Sustenance.
Ring of Sustenance:
This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind; its wearer only needs to sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

4) Give them a pair of Mantle(s) of Immortality.
Mantle of Immortality:
This elegant cape, trimmed in gold in a pattern resembling an ancient maze, forestalls the negative effects of aging. The wearer no longer suffers penalties to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution from being of middle age or older (Core Rulebook 169). The penalties return if the robe is removed (or its powers suppressed), and the sudden weight of years is so traumatic that the wearer must make a DC 20 Fortitude save or be exhausted for 24 hours. Donning the robe again removes the age penalties, but does not remove this exhaustion, which must pass on its own or be remedied with magic.

5) Give them two scythe. (x4 weapon, 2d4 of damage).
6) Make sure they have Power Attack.

How this work:

First, drop the tarrasque. Not difficult for our Lucifer.
Second, tell the guys: "Coup-the-grace this pile of meat until it raise up. If you lack sleep, tell the other to come and help you, then go to sleep. Listen to your friend."
Third, done.

Coup-the-grace scores auto-crits, dealing [2d4 + 9 (1,5 strength) + 3 (Power attack) ] * 4 = 8d4 + 48, scoring at least 56 damage per round. Given RD and regeneration, every round tarrasque's hp drops by at least 1, which keeps him down. Since guys don't eat, age, get bored, and switch "hit-routine" so they are allowed to sleep, they can go forever. They will, because it never wakes up.

Just hide this area and you are OK forever.


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Cast Wish to teleport the Tarrasque to outer space in another galaxy.


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Lucifer can fly. The Tarrasque cannot, and has no ability to allow him to jump and attack. Lucifer possesses ranged attacks. The Tarrasque does not.

Lucifer is therefore invulnerable and invincible if he is not stupid enough to get in melee range.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Lucifer is therefore invulnerable and invincible if he is not stupid enough to get in melee range.

Why would that be stupid if he engaged the Tarrasque in melee? The Tarrasque can't do anything to him.


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Ipslore the Red wrote:

Lucifer can fly. The Tarrasque cannot, and has no ability to allow him to jump and attack. Lucifer possesses ranged attacks. The Tarrasque does not.

Lucifer is therefore invulnerable and invincible if he is not stupid enough to get in melee range.

Not true, not true!

First, I can jump! About 100' so Lucy better not be using rays...

But even better, I can fire 6 ranged attacks each round with a range of 1200 feet! That's 6 chances for that Nat20!!!


DM_Blake wrote:
Ipslore the Red wrote:

Lucifer can fly. The Tarrasque cannot, and has no ability to allow him to jump and attack. Lucifer possesses ranged attacks. The Tarrasque does not.

Lucifer is therefore invulnerable and invincible if he is not stupid enough to get in melee range.

Not true, not true!

First, I can jump! About 100' so Lucy better not be using rays...

But even better, I can fire 6 ranged attacks each round with a range of 1200 feet! That's 6 chances for that Nat20!!!

Yeah, the terrasque is a little less of a pushover in pathfinder.

Of course, an allip can wisdom drain it into a coma, so y'know, the more things change...


Snowblind wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Ipslore the Red wrote:

Lucifer can fly. The Tarrasque cannot, and has no ability to allow him to jump and attack. Lucifer possesses ranged attacks. The Tarrasque does not.

Lucifer is therefore invulnerable and invincible if he is not stupid enough to get in melee range.

Not true, not true!

First, I can jump! About 100' so Lucy better not be using rays...

But even better, I can fire 6 ranged attacks each round with a range of 1200 feet! That's 6 chances for that Nat20!!!

Yeah, the terrasque is a little less of a pushover in pathfinder.

Of course, an allip can wisdom drain it into a coma, so y'know, the more things change...

Immune to ability drain


RoboPorthos wrote:
Immune to ability drain

Oh hey, they finally fixed that with the inner sea gods version.


Back in 3.5 the popular trick was Poly any object into a small lizard, get your Handle Animal check through the roof, and train the blighter to obey you. Might take months, but the duration is permanent until you've got him trained. Wisely they made him immune to polymorph in PF, but Trap the Soul still works.

As does the reverse gravity cannon, where you just lead him into a column of reverse gravity, cast soften earth and stone, and watch him shoot into orbit. We try not to get into the physics of why that doesn't work or the workarounds for the physics problems because it's all messy and complicated.


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He melees the Tarrasque into unconsciousness. He then coup de graces the tarrasque. The tarrasque's unique form of regeneration allows him to die to effects that slay on a failed seve, and then the unique regeneration brings the Tarrasque back to life a few rounds later.

Lucifer then casts animate dead on the tarrasque (which he can do with his 1/day wish SLA). Animate dead turns the tarrasque into a zombie, stripping it of its special regeneration ability. The tarrasque is now a zombie that can be destroyed forever since its regeneration no longer exists. GG Tarrasque.

This can also be done with any 20th level martial (who will curbstomp Big T) and mid-level cleric.

Alternatively, he can just gate in some pit fiends to spam trap the soul at Big T until it fails. Pit fiends don't need special gems to trap a creature's soul, so they can just keep trying until the Tarrasque is no more.

This is by no means an all encompassing list of ways he can perma-kill the tarrasque, but these are among the most direct ways.

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