I just noticed that there are 8 class decks and one of them is the paladin and the description says only 3 hero's and that it will be out in july 2015. The description even talks about WOTR. SUPER EXCITED!!!!
Holy cap I didn't even notice that I can't wait to see how that works.
Maybe like Droogami, move and explore. Plus maybe some kind of combat bonus? Or maybe a cool trample mechanic where if you really trounce a monster (like by +6), you get to explore again?
Mounted weapons would be neat, I wonder if we'll see anything like that. Like a lance with base of Strength Melee + 1d8, and if the check has the Mount trait then add an additional 1d8. Then you can additionally discard/recharge it for another extra die. All of the mounts would need to have "Reveal this card to add the Mount trait to your Combat check with a weapon" or something like that.
Maybe like Droogami, move and explore. Plus maybe some kind of combat bonus? Or maybe a cool trample mechanic where if you really trounce a monster (like by +6), you get to explore again?
something like this would be really nice - a bit more utility from the characters who really excel at combat, but struggle with other things (like extra explorations)
See chat below that Paladin class deck for more info...
Its disappointing that they didn't drop down to 3 total characters, but hopefully the decks are refined much better than the original 7.
Its disappointing that they didn't drop down to 3 total characters, but hopefully the decks are refined much better than the original 7.
They did drop down to 3 total characters in the box per Vic in the product discussion thread. The product description saying 3 total paladins is correct. The product image is a mock-up and incorrect where it shows 4.
What a pitty... My wish are 4...
With 3, you will get less for your money...
Or the price per character increased by incredible 33 %
Damn!
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Myfly, I'm not sure if you participated in the discussions about the issues with the class decks but there are some serious problems with some of them and the boons (in those decks) to support 4 characters. I'm not going to get into it here as you can read that under the Adventure Guild messageboard.
Honestly, I'd much rather have 3 well-supported characters than 4 characters that are lacking. It's not cost, it's design.
He did.
I believe he proposed a Class deck add on of boons that could be used by any class that would round out the characters nicely (ie Arcane spells for Zarlova etc.)
I still think that was a good idea.
The thread went down a rabbit hole with his proposal for a deck of harder banes for those who wanted advanced difficulty If I recall correctly?
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Yeah, I know about the Harder Banes deck. And the add-on boons deck was proposed earlier than that by others, actually. However, it never got any traction on the Paizo side. So the idea of reducing the characters from 4 to 3 and making sure the boons support those characters seems like the approach they're going with.
I think they (Paizo) would prefer to keep the investment for OP participants to the $20 class deck.
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My hope is that they still do unique characters like Flenta now that only 3 characters need to be built for. I look forward to seeing what odd style Paladin we get!
What a pitty... My wish are 4...
With 3, you will get less for your money...
Or the price per character increased by incredible 33 %
Damn!
You're only considering the characters, not the 100 boons that come with them.
You're paying the same cost for the same card count. They just changed 3 of the cards (Token, character, role) into boons.
Yea, but I think the characters are the most important part of a CLASS (character) deck. I understand 3 extra boons for characters that are less spread out in boon needs is fine, but there are ways of correcting that without the need for the removal of a full character to add three boons.
The cleric deck, for example, could have worked just as well with mostly swords in the deck and a different role power for Zarlova. Everything else was fine. In fact, I have a friend playing Zarlova in an OP game and loving her.
Sadly, I probably will not buy the Paladin deck, even though I really love shiny Paladins. I have been playing a lot of home games lately, so the characters are far more important to me than the extra boons. If I really get into organized play, I will just run with one of the decks with 4 characters instead.
It makes me a little sad that they couldn't find a way to satisfy both OP and home players with this character deck.
I doubt there are that many people who actually get use out of all 4 characters in a class deck - I think that 3 makes sense, and it's certainly born out of a lot of the feedback Paizo received on these forums.
Don't buy a class deck, you get no extra Paladins, buy a class deck, you get 3 extra Paladins. If you like Paladins, the class deck still seems like a good deal.
Whilst the boon count only goes up by 3, it suggests that a 3rd of the cards in that deck can be tailored to your character instead of a quarter. (roughly 24 upto 33) so you shouldn't have nearly so many problems of only sub-optimal boons being available.
From what I can see, the overall aim of the Class Decks has always been to allow a cheap entry point to the game for new players, and this continues to do that. Unfortunately, any additional products (extra boon pack, extra monsters pack etc) not only makes the price point much higher, but massively increases the amount of play-testing they'd need to balance things.
As MightyJim hinted at, it's more of the fact that with 3 characters you can dedicate more boons to each character and therefore can have a much more diverse and interesting mix of characters rather than either having every character be the same or having some characters being almost unplayable as they were envisioned (hi Flenta and Zarlova). I'd be more of a fan of addon boon packs, but failing that I'd rather have 3 diverse characters with good boon support rather than 4 with mediocre to nonexistent boon support or 4 characters that differ by name only.
Also, if the focus is home games there is always home brewing new characters in Houserules forum. For two years in a row we are getting a free Goblin character. There is always the possibility of more odd characters to give/sell away as parts of odd promotions in a similar vein to the goblins. It is unfortunate that some would rather the fourth character rather than more boons, but ultimately we are getting a nice amount of new characters.
I like consistency in games.
All 7 class decks had each 4 characters, so why to change this rule?
Why all Paladin lovers have to suffer and the Wizard lovers get 4 character variants?
Thats unfair IMO and of course breaks the game consistency.
Chief Technical Officer
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I just hope that one of those three characters isn't the same old iconic that can be had in any box set.
Whenever we put an existing character into a new product, we make changes to that character. So the Seelah in the Paladin deck will be different from the Seelah in Rise of the Runelords.
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I like consistency in games.
All 7 class decks had each 4 characters, so why to change this rule?
Why all Paladin lovers have to suffer and the Wizard lovers get 4 character variants?Thats unfair IMO and of course breaks the game consistency.
They changed it because of a huge amount of complaints that 4 characters was causing the decks to not have enough cards that those characters needed. If you look through some of the decks, there are characters that need a specific kind of card for their power, and in the 110 card deck there are only 3 or 4.
It's not unfair at all. Products change, if they didn't then we'd be stuck with 4 paladins that don't have the right cards to build them well.
Consistency is a horrible reason not to improve a product.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Also, the July date is incorrect. Our web store manager assumed that, as we have done for the last decade or so, our August releases were going to debut at Gen Con, which is in late July this year. But this year, we'll actually be releasing our July products at Gen Con, and our August products, including the Paladin deck, will actually be out in August. We'll get that fixed.
Will the 4th paladin be a promo character ?
Just to please all Paladin fans?
Paizo could release every adventure path one class deck (3 chars) plus one promo character of that class to stay consistent with other classes...
@andrew
Of course could there be 4 char in a class deck, but with less variance, refering to one card pool of 97 cards... This is definetly possible....
Just take a look at Ranzak, he doesnt have any additional boon cards included and he is great.
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Ranzak can build his deck from every card across the entire adventure path, not a 97 card deck. You're talking about building from a massive pool compared to a very small one. The base set (B only, not even C or 1) alone has more cards to choose from than a class deck does across all 7 adventures.
Sure you could remove some the variance, but making the other 3 characters less unique so you can add a fourth is not right.
How would you do promos? Surely 3 is the norm now so you'd have a promo for every deck that comes out? That's more character promos than we need. Don't add characters just for the sake of adding characters. There really isn't a reason to keep 4 other than "Well we had that many before".
Do you know the "Fantastic Four"?
What would happen if they would only be three ? :-))))))
Do you know the "Fantastic Four"?
What would happen if they would only be three ? :-))))))
The title would have been different...
Would they still be fantastic ? ;-)))
Comparing Ranzak to class deck characters is a false comparison, as Ranzak is not legal in the Organized Play whereas class deck characters are. In Organized Play, you must use a class deck and your deck can only consist of cards from that class deck. Not having proper boon support in the class deck to play to each character's individual strengths and unique powers is a huge detriment in OP because it means you cannot use that character effectively. So for home games more characters = more better, but consider that these class decks are meant for both Organized Play as well as home games so I'd like to see them be awesome for both play styles, which the first 7 class decks didn't really achieve. Outside of increasing card count (and thus expense), lowering the number of characters or making every character the same are the only ways to address the issues brought up with the first 7 class decks regarding boon support. As I stated above, I'd rather have less characters that are each unique and fun to play and have good boon support rather than 4 characters that are all the same in order to have good boon support.
If a 4th character is that important to you then make one. Eventually the character cards will be available st drive thru and then you can make what ever you want. I already have a few lined up waiting to be made For when it happens. Most are gifts for my friends.
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Am I the only person who thinks there will be four characters in the Paladin deck? There's four character portraits on the top of the box and the text says there's Seelah and 3 new characters. That's four.
Yeah, the picture is a mock-up. Vic mentions it here that it is 3 new characters including Seelah. He mentions further that they consider the CD version of Seelah new because she's not the same as other versions.
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Yeah, the picture is a mock-up. Vic mentions it here that it is 3 new characters including Seelah. He mentions further that they consider the CD version of Seelah new because she's not the same as other versions.
I don't consider it new. She'll probably still have an aversion to items the same way Ezren's class deck character didn't have any blessings. The new characters were the most interesting part of the class decks, a close second being the (few) unique boons they included. I consider there to be less value for the price tag in this set of class decks, unless they up the number of boons that aren't re-hashes from other sets.
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I have to agree - I find the concept of including iconics in each class deck to be unnecessary. I don't need to see merisiel again, I don't need 3 Lems. New characters exploring new facets of what it means to be a rogue or a bard are what's intriguing.
I believe the iconics do have the same Card Feat grid across their incarnations. Their stat dies and skill feat distributions are different though.
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I have to agree - I find the concept of including iconics in each class deck to be unnecessary. I don't need to see merisiel again, I don't need 3 Lems. New characters exploring new facets of what it means to be a rogue or a bard are what's intriguing.
Consider this: The class decks are supposed to be stand-alone companions to the game. They're also supposed to be transportable so they can't be tied to specific base set. Most people recognize and identify with the iconic characters from Pathfinder.
So the idea that you can simply pull from someone's base set for a character (in organized play) really isn't a valid plan unless you are always playing with a person's set. And that person isn't running any other games from that set.
I run three games a week with three different groups. Yet each group has a Kyra. Kyra wasn't included in S&S so you have to go back to RotR. I'm not about to start handing out my RotR Kyra to someone else. Oh, and none of the three Kyras own the game; just the class deck.
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Which is only when you don't own or have access to an extra base set.Especially since you can swap out the characters for iconics from the any base set.Except when you can't ...
Which for most OP players in my area is true. Only two of all my groups (besides myself) own a base set. Only one of those owns the RotR set. So counting on swapping in an iconic into a class deck is not very feasible for OP.
Plus consider that for those that own the S&S set (plus Character Add-on deck), there are only three iconics that match class decks: Lem, Valeros and Merisiel.
Most people recognize and identify with the iconic characters from Pathfinder.
Is this really true? I'm guessing that if you play the RPG it is, but I had never even heard of Pathfinder before the adventure card game, and to me Ranzak or Damiel are more exciting characters to play than Valeros or Merisiel. I'd much rather see new characters with new ideas than the fourth version of Merisiel.
And yes, I know the class/base versions of iconics are for all intents and purposes new characters, but by and large their key mechanic remains the same: evade for merisel, recharge weaponry for Valeros etc.
If iconics aren't in the class decks, the base set versions can't be used due to how the rules are currently written -- you are allowed to use base set versions of class deck characters if they have the same name, but if the iconics aren't in the class deck then that swap would be illegal. Rules can be easily changed, but do keep that in mind.
Edit: I don't play the Pathfinder RPG myself right now (although I may later; just have a different system filling in the fantasy RPG niche atm), so I don't actually know any of the iconics, to me they are just other characters that fit very closely to the stereotypical way their class acts. If these are removed, I'd expect that they would be replaced with some other stereotypical character in which case there is no point in changing the name (making it not stereotypical would remove the character whose powers would most closely match someone's preconceptions when buying a class deck).
Again, this presupposes that the majority of people playing the game need to play with the iconics, or even know what the iconics are. Now, there may be brand appropriate reasons for Paizo to do this. If you want to remain consistent across all Paizo products then a focus on iconics makes sense I guess, and allows you to push merchandise etc. etc.
However the iconic distinction means very little to myself and my gaming group as we have nothing to do with the RPG. To us, all we are seeing is three versions of the same character when Paizo has a treasure trove of NPCs to work with. It depends on the profile of the majority of the audience who is playing the card game, are they familiar with the RPG or not?
I don't think that's true skizzerz. If there is a class deck for a character's _Class_ then you may use that class deck and character for organized play IIRC
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Yeah, the picture is a mock-up. Vic mentions it here that it is 3 new characters including Seelah. He mentions further that they consider the CD version of Seelah new because she's not the same as other versions.I don't consider it new. She'll probably still have an aversion to items the same way Ezren's class deck character didn't have any blessings. The new characters were the most interesting part of the class decks, a close second being the (few) unique boons they included. I consider there to be less value for the price tag in this set of class decks, unless they up the number of boons that aren't re-hashes from other sets.
I think this just another case of value being different based on what you're looking for. People primarily looking for the characters and less for the boons are going to find less value. People looking for characters that work better with their class deck are more likely to find an increased value now compared to before. While the decks can be used with the main game, they are built for OP, and the focus there needs to be building good decks for the characters. That wasn't done well with 4 characters, and 3 characters will greatly improve that.
Most people recognize and identify with the iconic characters from Pathfinder.Is this really true? I'm guessing that if you play the RPG it is, but I had never even heard of Pathfinder before the adventure card game, and to me Ranzak or Damiel are more exciting characters to play than Valeros or Merisiel. I'd much rather see new characters with new ideas than the fourth version of Merisiel.
And yes, I know the class/base versions of iconics are for all intents and purposes new characters, but by and large their key mechanic remains the same: evade for merisel, recharge weaponry for Valeros etc.
Every character, including Damiel, that has been in base sets is an iconic. Ranzak, and 3 characters from each class deck, are the only non iconics in the game. I'm guessing the base set and add-on packs will always be the iconics for the class.
I personally think that the iconics are important enough characters that someone buying a class deck should always have that character included without buying another product -- whether the class deck has 1 character or 100 characters.