Build Advice for a...Sub-Optimal Concept


Advice


I'm a little worried that I'm just going to be told not to even bother playing this character, but...oh well. :P

I have an idea for a character I'd like to submit to a Jade Regent campaign (actually I came up with this for PFS but given how combat-oriented PFS is I don't think that's viable). The concept is MAD as hell, which is unfortunate, but I like the flavor. I'm looking for any advice on how to improve the character mechanically, because that's not my forte. I'm not going to be looking at all to be a monster-chomping god, just be able to contribute something useful in combat.

The Concept:
A kitsune geisha whose training includes the martial arts, as those fall under the purview of "arts" that she considers aesthetically valuable and important. She focuses on "soft power:" diplomacy, deception, distraction, seduction, and even a little bit of poison, rather than full-on head-to-head combat. In fact, she tries as much as possible not to kill any sentient creatures she can't avoid killing, preferring to immobilize, cripple, or distract them enough to win them over with words or be able to move on without fear of reprisal. She's looking to return to her homeland after having come abroad as a child.

The Rules:
15-Point Buy...that's pretty much it.

The Crunch:

Mostly what I'm concerned with here is the feats: what order to take them in, and whether anything is redundant/if there are more efficient ways to achieve this result. To whit, a concept:

Lotus Geisha X/Monk of the Lotus 6 (I'm not sure what the endpoint of the campaign will be, but pretty sure I need those 6 monk levels ASAP)

STR 12
DEX 15 (+1 at 4th)
CON 7
INT 13
WIS 14
CHA 15 (+1 at 8th?)

Feats
1st Level (Bard): Combat Expertise
Lotus Geisha Auto: Spell Focus (Enchantment)
2nd Level (Monk) 1st Monk Bonus: Dodge
Monk Auto: Improved UAS
Monk Auto: Touch of Serenity
3rd Level (Monk): Feinting Flurry
2nd Monk Bonus: Deflect Arrows or Scorpion Style?
5th Level (Monk): Improved Feint
7th Level (Monk): Nimble Moves
3rd Monk Bonus: Mobility
9th Level: Gliding Steps
11th Level: Greater Feint

Past there I haven't really figured anything out. Planned to equip her with a fighting fan for the +2 to feint. So, again, the goal is: lots of feinting (hopefully in ways that give allies a hand too) and the ability to get herself the hell out of Dodge when need be. Thoughts on this?

One Question: Is there a ruling on whether Greater Feint impacts Feinting Flurry, or are "feint" and "feinting flurry" considered separate actions?


Swashbuckler would allow you to use my charisma in place of int for feats, which might give you a few more points to play with.

Several Oracle mysteries have powers that allow you to use your charisma for AC, giving you a few more points to play with.

Is taking lotus geisha just for flavor and having the name on your sheet, it doesn't seem to be giving you much?

Fey sorcerer has laughing touch which is really good for non-violent problem resolution.


A sanctified slayer of Irori with the Redemption inquisition. You'll have lots of skill points, a bonus to Diplomacy, and starting at 4th level your fists will be merciful and with Sap Adept and Sap Master, you'll be contributing to combat just fine.

You'll still have to spend a bunch of feats on the Feint chain, and won't be able to skip the Int 13 requirements, so you'll still be MAD and feat starved, but that's going to be a problem nearly any way you build. Feinting is very feat intensive.

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I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'm really not sure the direction you want to go with your crunch is viable in a 15 point buy... you're spread so thin you'll be mediocre at everything (at best, some of what you're trying to do you will be bad at).

With 7 Con you need to avoid combat at all costs... giving yourself a 14 AC and unarmed strikes will only lead to disaster... at first level you'll only have 6 hp and it will only take 13 damage to flat out kill you! a warrior with 14 Str and a greatclub could do that in 1 lucky roll without even using power attack... and you're going to average about 2 additional hp every time you level?!? At 5th level you should expect to have about 14 hp... so even if you're avoiding combat if you ever fail a save against a lightning bolt or fireball you're dead...

I don't like to ever tell anyone to abandon any concept, but in this case I think you're mechanics need to go. That doesn't mean you can't hold on to your fluff though... ZanThrax's crunch is much more reasonable and you could still have you background be that you were a geisha, you'd just have to tweak it so that the house you worked for was run by a zealous adherent of Irori, or that you had some secret influence from a disciple of Irori throughout your training... other options would include: only leveling as a bard, taking improved unarmed strike as a feat, and trying to avoid combat (after fixing your stats); leveling as a sensei monk- they gain an ability like bardic performance and might be able to replicate the feel you're going for; or, just making a sylvan sorcerer- flavor all your skills and most of your spells on the geisha-esque stuff you like, get crazy DCs on your enchantments, and have a pet tiger (or whatever) that stops anyone from getting near you for combat...


A Lotus Monk with a level of cleric of Irori could focus heavily on wisdom by using the Guided Hand feat, and seems to fulfill the concept fairly well. Bard/Monk is clunky enough without trying to focus on a wisdom based power.


What about taking one level of flowing monk and the rest ninja with sap adept/master and just fluff the geisha bit? You still focus on nonlethal "pinpoint" attacks and martial arts plus you can probably fit a few more feats in there if you wanted.You can even get enforcer to intimidate if you want.


Go full Ninja with Sap Master feats and use your skillpoints and Charisma for social stuff?

An unarmed Oracle might also work for you.

In a home game you could even ask your GM to reflavour a Paladin of Irori/Monk going for the Champion of Irori Prestige Class. You got plenty of Charisma can max Diplomacy and can fight unarmed like a beast.


Feint is usually a terrible use of your actions. I agree that even a straight swashbuckler would be a really big step up from this mechanically (and that's saying something).

If 'd build this, I'd be looking at how to make a CHA focused unarmed character. The Enlightened Paladin (as d20pfsrd calls it, Paladin of Irori otherwise) springs to mind immediately, possibly with Ninja dips abound. But the Bard could carry this concept without even dipping, maybe aside from 1 level into the Iroran paladin for an extra AC and IUS.


I almost had a heart attack at 7 CON. No-non construct/undead character in the game can get away with 7 CON.


You know, you can have a character who is a geisha as a background, and play any class you like.

The roleplaying and background you invent are totally up to you. You could easily have a geisha who is a sorcerer, for example, and avoided combat, and loaded up on illusion and enchantment spells.


le sigh Ok, thanks all. Not what I wanted to hear, but probably what I needed to hear. I did originally test out this concept (just on a whim) with a 20 p.b., which makes it...still not really good, but slightly less ridiculous.

As to the "why a bard/geisha" rather than just roleplaying question, I really liked the idea of having a character who could use their good lucks/charm/magic to both give their party a little bit of help and befuddle opponents--essentially this has always been a back-of-combat/support concept, in my mind. Probably what I'll ultimately do is reconfigure this character to be either a full bard, or (as many have suggested) just have the "geisha" aspect be a roleplaying thing.

Thanks for the many suggestions--they've put a lot of build concepts on the table I wasn't aware of before! :)

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