Is improved natural attack legal for pfs and eidlons?


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4/5 ****

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Silver Crusade 3/5

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From the Additional Resources

Quote:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary

Animal Companions: ankylosaurus, aurochs, brachiosaurus, dire bat, dire rat, dolphin, elasmosaurus, electric eel, elephant/mastodon, frog, goblin dog, hyena, monitor lizard, moray eel, octopus, orca, pteranodon, rhinoceros, roc, squid, stegosaurus, triceratops, and tyrannosaurus; Familiars: all familiars listed on pages 131-133; Feats: none of the feats are legal for play for PCs, animal companions, or familiars unless specifically granted by another legal source; Other: all creatures in this book are legal for polymorph effects (including a druid's wild shape ability) within the boundaries of each spell or ability's parameters. All languages found in this book are available for a character to learn with the linguistics skill, except aboleth and drow sign language.

The text that I highlighted does not specifically disallow those feats for eidolons, but I think the intent is clear that the Bestiary feats are not available to any player-controlled creatures unless another legal source allows it.

For example, Druid animal companions can take Improved Natural Attack because it is listed as a feat available to animal companions in the Core Rulebook.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Animal Feats

Animal companions can select from the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.

If you have such a source that allows your eidolon to take that feat, and that source is legal according to the Additional Resources, then your eidolon can have it.

The good news is that there is a 1-point evolution that does the same thing! :)

Edit: The Additional Resources place no restrictions on eidolon feats in the section for the Advanced Player's Guide. Moreover, the APG has the following to say about eidolon feats:

Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
Feats: This is the total number of feats possessed by an eidolon. Eidolons can select any feat that they qualify for, but they must possess the appropriate appendages to use some feats. Eidolon feats are set once chosen, even if the creature changes when the summoner gains a new level. If, due to changes, the eidolon no longer qualifies for a feat, the feat has no effect until the eidolon once again qualifies for the feat.

With that in mind, I am convinced that it is a legal feat for eidolons in PFS.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

(the fox is talking to itself again...)

Scarab Sages 5/5

However, since there is an evolution that gives improved natural attack, you may find some GMs not allowing the feat.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Just to be clear, it IS legal for a Ranger with the Natural Weapon combat style because it is in their specific list of feats correct? (But only as a combat style feat.)

Silver Crusade 3/5

That is correct. A Ranger with the Natural Weapon combat style can choose Improved Natural Attack as a combat style feat, but may not take it as any of their other feats.

Also, you might want to be aware of this FAQ.

Basically, Improved Natural Attack will stack with actual size changes, but not with other effective size changes, such as the spell strong jaw.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

As the fox mentioned, at this point it seems, that the Eidolon evolution will not stack with the feat, so you are likely better of taking another feat.

Grand Lodge 4/5

The Fox wrote:

From the Additional Resources

Quote:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary

Animal Companions: ankylosaurus, aurochs, brachiosaurus, dire bat, dire rat, dolphin, elasmosaurus, electric eel, elephant/mastodon, frog, goblin dog, hyena, monitor lizard, moray eel, octopus, orca, pteranodon, rhinoceros, roc, squid, stegosaurus, triceratops, and tyrannosaurus; Familiars: all familiars listed on pages 131-133; Feats: none of the feats are legal for play for PCs, animal companions, or familiars unless specifically granted by another legal source; Other: all creatures in this book are legal for polymorph effects (including a druid's wild shape ability) within the boundaries of each spell or ability's parameters. All languages found in this book are available for a character to learn with the linguistics skill, except aboleth and drow sign language.

The text that I highlighted does not specifically disallow those feats for eidolons, but I think the intent is clear that the Bestiary feats are not available to any player-controlled creatures unless another legal source allows it.

AR doesn't disallow these feats for eidolons, but it doesn't allow them for any creature either. Without another legal source eidolons have no access to Bestiary feats.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

That's a lot of really long winded ways to say "no."

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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If it doesn't explicitly say you can, in any source, then there should be no reason to believe you could. Based on how the AR works, lack of exclusion absolutely does not mean inclusion.

Dark Archive 1/5

The Fox wrote:
With that in mind, I am convinced that it is a legal feat for eidolons in PFS.

I think you nailed it. The APG quote settles the deal. If the Eidolon qualifies for it, then it can take it.

Shadow Lodge

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Hollister wrote:
The Fox wrote:
With that in mind, I am convinced that it is a legal feat for eidolons in PFS.
I think you nailed it. The APG quote settles the deal. If the Eidolon qualifies for it, then it can take it.

Incorrect, actually; unless it is directly called out as being a valid choice, then they cannot take any feat from the Bestiary.

Animal companions and natural weapon rangers can take them because they are called out by name as being valid options. The rules for eidolons do not call them out by name, and thus do not count as being "specifically granted by another legal source" (emphasis mine).

Silver Crusade 3/5

Yeah, I think Starglim, Andrew, and James are right about the word "specifically."

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

No, it is not legal in PFS.

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