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You guys have been so helpful with my newbiness (LOL), and I am going you can help me build a nice reach warrior.
I'm playing PFS for the first time Sunday, and I am partially inspired by the combat scene between the Viper and the Mountain (Game of Thrones, season 4). Not looking for the same exact character, mind you. It's just that using a long pole weapon inspired me. :)
What's the best pole weapon warrior build you can think of? The more details, the better for me (I still won't have my own Players Handbook until next week).
Thank you!
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So your going to have only the CRB to use? That means your limited.
Typically most classes with a 14 Str+, Combat reflexes, and a Long Spear can pull off a Reach fighter type. Clerics can do it effectively.
Your class choices will be: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Ranger, Paladin, and Fighter.
All have their pros and cons and all can do different things the other can not.
Full Base attack Bonus Classes like Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger and Fighter are going to be more straight forward and easier.
While Bard and Cleric might be more difficult to understand at first since you're mixing Personal/ally buffs with your fighting. But these two classes offer lots of options other than fighting. Especially the bard with all those skill points.
I recommend A Paladin of Shelyn to keep things newbie friendly.
Use her favored weapon a Glaive to keep it simple.
Human Paladin of Shelyn- 20 point Buy
Str:17 Dex:14 Con:13 Int:10 Wis:10 Cha:14
(+1 to Str @ 4 and +1 Con at 8)
Traits: Dangerously Curious: You gain a +1 bonus on Use Magic Device checks, and Use Magic Device is always a class skill for you.
Observant: You gain a +1 trait bonus on all Perception checks and Perception is a class skill for you.
Feats:
Human: Combat Reflexes
1 HD: Power attack
3 HD: Extra Lay on Hands
5 HD: Weapon Focus-
7 HD:
9 HD: Improved Critical-
11 HD:
Skills:
UMD: Max
Perception: Max
Diplomacy:
Heal: 1-2 ranks and a MW healers kit!
Profession/Perform/Craft: Typically not worth much of an investment but Shelyn followers tend to be artsy and creative. I don't recommend lots of points but this is a fluff point to the character.
Some Gear to be looking forward to buying:
Armor Spike or Spiked Gauntlet (this is what you need when they get inside your reach for attack. It also lets you attack in a grapple)
Full plate-->Mithral Full plate (its not cheap)
+2 Str and Dex belt
+2-4 Headband of Cha
Ring of Protection +1
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Cloak of Resistance +2
Dusty rose Prism Ioun Stone
Adamantine Weapon. PFS has used tons of constructs and DR/adamantine critters over the years...but season 6 is the year of adamantine...this will be your main weapon.
MW cold Iron Morning star (this is your back up weapon that by passes DR/Cold Iron, Piercing, and Bludgoning...just 2 hand it and smack face)
A Composite Longbow (+3 str) w/ Cold Iron Arrows (always carry a ranged Back up weapon.)
Haversack
Scroll/Wand Library- I mean it...this is your layered defenses. Get a Wand of Cure light wounds for 2PP after first game. Then work on wand of Shield or Protection from Evil, Longstrider, and Enlarge Person. Then buy scrolls of Fly, Barkskin, Cat's Grace (more Dex=More AC and AoO), Mirror Image, and Resist energy. Layered Defenses mean You're negating attacks/energy damage through more methods than straight AC. AC is good but not the end all to damage. I would rather have a 25 AC, 50% miss chance, and Resist energy 10, then have 30 AC. Its better front lining melee strategy for staying alive.
Enjoy pathfinder....remember you can change your character up until you play your first session at Level 2. So you can try out a few character types.
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Feat-wise, you only need Combat Reflexes; Bodyguard, Power Attack, and maybe Improved Trip work nicely with this build. Enlarge Person is a nice buff.
The biggest trick with reach builds is tactics.
If you have a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes, your best bet is to ready an action to attack when the bad guy gets within reach. Then, when the enemy closes in to attack, your readied action goes off AND you get an attack of opportunity as they move up to you. Being able to attack twice before the bad guy gets to you is really nice.
The hard part is convincing your other party members to use these tactics. It can get a bit frustrating when 3 reach weapon wielders are all readying against the enemy, only to have another player run past the line to engage the enemy 30 ft away. Sigh.
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Some previous advice I gave on an Oberyn build
actual PFS.
I will be getting the book back Wednesday. Game is Sunday.
If you have to own the book for the build, I will only be using the basic book.
Look if it's your first PFS just play a Barbarian with some reach weapon. You'll have 3 sessions where you can change everything for free. You could be a human barbarian this session, an elf wizard next, and a gnome bard the third one. Only does your 4th session really count because then everything is set.
If you use something not in core they ask you if you have the book, and you have to show the proof that you own the source book.
I still say your best idea would be to just go your first time with something simple and see how it's ran. Since nothing is set your first level.
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Human Fighter
Str 18 (16+2), Dex 14, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Feats: Power attack, Combat Reflexes, Iron will
Skills: Perception, Survival, Diplomacy
Equipment: Scale armor, Glaive, backup weapon (short sword or dagger), sling (or thrown weapon like javelin) to take advantage of your high strength, a few alchemist fires for things like swarms, standard gear.
Good solid core only pole arm fighter. You won't be super-optimized, but you will function well enough for your first game.
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Good to know about those rules.
I'm connected to this group through meetup.com. I'm going to send the DM a message and see if it's official or not. I am under the impression it is.
If it is official, maybe I'll build the character as a Paladin or Barbarian. It seems like the added books add a bunch of feats you really should take, and I could do reasonably well with the basic book and less feats to worry about (since I wouldn't be a fighter).
Or, I could go back to the ranger "switch hitter" idea.
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The build I listed was CRB only and everything PFS legal for CORE options only.
Switch Hitter is doable with Core but the lack of the feats they added in later books hurts but it is still doable and efficient.
Human with feats:
1: Point Blank Shot (or cleave...I hate cleave), Power attack
2: Rapid Shot
3: Quick Draw
5: Deadly Aim
6: Improved Precise Shot
7: Many shot
9: Iron Will
10: Pinpoint Targeting
Just your feats are much more limited...you might as well set all filters on your site your using to CRB only options for feats.
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another point (favoring a simple build):
Once I start understanding this game better, nothing is stopping me from buying whatever sourcebooks I might need to create the build I want.
I'm only playing PFS once every other week. The character isn't going to advance further and faster than I will be able to buy a needed book.
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No trip feats? :(
Combat expertise, improved trip and greater trip are core too.
13 int required for combat expertise.
Ooooo, that sounds cool.
I could go Human: a 13 INT would force to go from a drooling idiot to just a drooler (I'm still gunna punt CHA) :p. Alternately, I could go with a Dwarf (always liked them).
Human: STR 18 DEX 13 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 13 CHA 7
Dwarf: STR 16 DEX 13 CON 16 INT 13 WIS 15 CHA 5
(Alt. Dwarf):STR 18 DEX 13 CON 12 INT 13 WIS 13 CHA 5
Feats:
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Power Attack (dwarf would not get this).
BTW, I just received official word from the GM: If it's in the PRD, you can use it.
Yay!!
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I just read Combat Reflexes. Should I switch DEX and CON for my builds? It seems like I could punt CON a little bit since the idea (hope) is that enemies won't breach my reach.
Also, should I look to make that a level 1 feat?
Alternate #3 dwarf build:
STR 16 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 14 CHA 5
Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
I'll look into taking the Polearm Master Archetype. I like that it replaces the Armor Training, which isn't a big deal for a Dwarf.
I could take the traits Reactionary and Indomitable Faith to help with initiative and cover a big drawback of this build (Will Saves).
What do y'all think?
Fighter with all the bonus feats can help a lot -- at later levels, especially, feats like Lunge, Greater Trip, Weapon Specializatiom, and so on can be very helpful with a reach weapon. Not to mention the lovely bonus that is weapon training.
Even opif you're mostly another class, consider a level or two of fighter for the bonus feats.
one of the nice about a dwarf is that they get free proficiency with a bunch of exotic weapons (they're listed in the dwarf entry of the advanced race guide, which is on the prd). these include the boulder helmet, which pretty much negates the need for the polearm master's choke up ability, and the longhammer, which does great damage.
the big upsides to humans are the extra feat and floating +2. if you go human 18 Str should be fine (10pts for 16+2race), if you go dwarf its gonna hurt (but is doable, especially if you go back to dumping Int).
Ultimately, the answer to your question depends on what kind of reach fighter you want to be... if you're looking for destruction a dwarven barbarian with a longhammer would be a great simple character (and wouldn't need to worry about Int). If you want someone who can use his reach to help control the battlefield, it could get more complicated... a human fighter with a guisarme (a reach weapon with the trip quality) could do pretty well just taking combat reflexes, combat expertise, and improved trip, but eventually you'll start seeing more and more things that are flying or too big to trip... take improved trip as your fighter bonus feat and you can switch it out once its losing effectiveness. If you think you're going to be progressing slowly check out what additional books you need for the right feats to keep this going...
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If you're going back to a reach + trip fighter and are buying the source books a Lore Warden is what you are looking for. Auto Combat expertise without the 13 Int. Bonuses to CMB and CMD. More skill points than the typical fighter. It is a very nice package.
plus the Lore Warden gets combat expertise without the Int requirement but most (maybe all?) of the maneuver feats that require expertise also require 13 Int to take (so you'd get expertise but couldn't take imp. trip, imp. disarm, etc). If you don't want to raise your Int you can look at the brawler class or the swashbuckler (both in Advanced Class Guide, or PRD).
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one of the nice about a dwarf is that they get free proficiency with a bunch of exotic weapons (they're listed in the dwarf entry of the advanced race guide, which is on the prd). these include the boulder helmet, which pretty much negates the need for the polearm master's choke up ability, and the longhammer, which does great damage.
the big upsides to humans are the extra feat and floating +2. if you go human 18 Str should be fine (10pts for 16+2race), if you go dwarf its gonna hurt (but is doable, especially if you go back to dumping Int).
Ultimately, the answer to your question depends on what kind of reach fighter you want to be... if you're looking for destruction a dwarven barbarian with a longhammer would be a great simple character (and wouldn't need to worry about Int). If you want someone who can use his reach to help control the battlefield, it could get more complicated... a human fighter with a guisarme (a reach weapon with the trip quality) could do pretty well just taking combat reflexes, combat expertise, and improved trip, but eventually you'll start seeing more and more things that are flying or too big to trip... take improved trip as your fighter bonus feat and you can switch it out once its losing effectiveness. If you think you're going to be progressing slowly check out what additional books you need for the right feats to keep this going...
Thank you. I still like the Polearm Archetype, and I'll definitely be sticking that helmet on my dwarf. It's only a 1d4 weapon, but it'll do before I'm able to choke up on a pole arm (if needed).
I'll look into the spellchuckers too, but this idea is really starting to take hold on me.
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I like Oracle of Battle or Metal, (human, half-orc, or half-elf), with a bardiche or faucharde. Combat Reflexes, STR at least 16, Dex of 12-14, eventually take Power Attack, Cornugon Smash, Hurtful, and Skill Focus Intimidate. Pump that intimidate! Otherwise go with Combat Expertise + Improved Trip and use a Faucharde or glaive.
If you don't like Lore Warden the Two-Handed Fighter Archetype can give you some extra damage.
Dwarfs can also use the Dwarven Longhammer(2d6 20x3 reach) or Longaxe(d12 20x3 reach), if you are a Dwarf.
Where can I find this Fauchard (I know what it is, but I didn't see it)? Why doesn't a Halberd have Reach?
I was going to try the Horsechopper. Pretty good stats for a trip-artist!
The fauchard is from Classic Horrors Revisited.
Not exactly an optimized reach-weapon build per se, but you can make an interesting combat style out of combining the best basic features of a reach weapon and unarmed strikes - not as a backup weapon, but exploited to full effect.
I was recently looking at a potential 'Amazon war-priestess' flavored Warsighted Oracle that would use a level of Sohei, striking and fending with the blade of a glaive at a distance before stepping in with whirling blows from the haft - mechanically speaking, unarmed flurry in Brawling armor using a style feat.
A Barbarian can also do an interesting version of this with the Greater Brawling rage power, using Dragon Style's 1.5xSTR first strike on the offhand - or taking a level of Master of Many Styles to make unarmed brutal.
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So, I ended up discarding all the advice y'all game me in my first game and created a Magus.
The particular adventure we went on had very little combat.
I am going to change my character, and my only real requirement of this new character will be to have some way to heal himself.
I am content with this way being a wand, if need be.
ALSO, I have quite a bit of gift cards in my Amazon account. I am willing to purchase any supplemental books to help build my character.
I am looking at the following classes:
Paladin
Bard
Cleric
Oracle
Ranger
Rogue
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So your going to have only the CRB to use? That means your limited.
Typically most classes with a 14 Str+, Combat reflexes, and a Long Spear can pull off a Reach fighter type. Clerics can do it effectively.
Your class choices will be: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Ranger, Paladin, and Fighter.
All have their pros and cons and all can do different things the other can not.
Full Base attack Bonus Classes like Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger and Fighter are going to be more straight forward and easier.
While Bard and Cleric might be more difficult to understand at first since you're mixing Personal/ally buffs with your fighting. But these two classes offer lots of options other than fighting. Especially the bard with all those skill points.
I recommend A Paladin of Shelyn to keep things newbie friendly.
Use her favored weapon a Glaive to keep it simple.
** spoiler omitted **...
Thank you for this.
I am willing and able to buy supplemental books to further optimize this character.
What other abilities would you recommend to do this? What books should I target?
Thank you so much.
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Fey foundling feat i forget the book its in. Its one of the strongest paladin feats.
Cool feat! Do you need to be an elf or half elf, or can human still work?
I'm definitely considering this build.
I'm also looking at the Cleric who uses a reach weapon (whether it be Shelyn's Glaive, or a less damaging Longspear with more advantageous Domain abilities).
Please keep it coming though: the idea of this Paladin build really has me going!
Some previous advice I gave on an Oberyn buildactual PFS.
I will be getting the book back Wednesday. Game is Sunday.
If you have to own the book for the build, I will only be using the basic book.
Well, there are a few things you can do.
If I remember right, during level 1 in PFS, you can retool your character between scenarios without any problems. And it takes....what, 3 scenarios before you level up (PFS uses actual games played instead of XP for leveling up). So you may have a good bit of time before anything is set in stone.
Also, options are a bit limited at level 1 anyway, and a lot of the fundamentals of a good reach build are CRB (power attack, combat reflexes, most relevant equipment). So that also gives you time to get books and such before you actually need them on hand for your build.
Anyway, for actual build advice- when it comes to later on in your build, I would grab lunge. It doesn't increase your threatened area for reach (since it ends with your turn), but it lets you position things to encourage attacks of opportunity (also called AoOs).
You see, when you normally attack with a reach weapon, the enemy ends up 10' away at the end of your turn. That means they only need to take a 5' step to reach you- they do not draw an attack of opportunity that way, and they keep their full attack. If you attack first, you cannot get extra attacks from AoOs.
With lunge, you can attack an enemy 15' away from you and leave him there when your turn ends. That means that the enemy has to move 10' to reach you- that requires a move action that draw an AoO and forces them to abandon their full attack. That is good offense and defense, and it lets you get an AoO off even if you attack first.
Also, lunge lets you full attack anything in a 45' wide circle (10' reach on both sides, 5' from lunge on both sides, 5' step forwards or back, and your own 5' square in the middle) . Which is always nice for a melee character.