What's the use of Scrivener's Chant?

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

This spell writes stuff down at the cost of a move action every round(aka. Concentration).

If you have to concentrate on the material what's the point? Is it not taking the exact same amount of effort to actually write yourself?

Admittedly, it looks cool and very mage-y. Style points aside, am I missing some aspect of this that makes it worthwhile?

Scrivener's Chant:

School transmutation; Level bard 0, cleric/oracle 0, sorcerer/wizard 0

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (fine sand and a vial of ink)

EFFECT
Range 5 ft.
Target one or more written objects
Duration concentration, up to 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will (harmless, object); Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION
This spell imbues a quill with animate energy and rapidly transcribes words from one page to another. The quill copies a written work at the rate of one normal-sized page per minute. The Linguistics skill can be used to make a convincing copy, but otherwise the reproduction is written in the hand of the caster. You must concentrate upon the material being duplicated for the spell's duration and provide new blank pages as required. The scrivener's chant requires blank paper and a quill or other writing materials, in addition to the material components.

[Taishaku]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

This spell writes stuff down at the cost of a move action every round(aka. Concentration).

If you have to concentrate on the material what's the point? Is it not taking the exact same amount of effort to actually write yourself?

Admittedly, it looks cool and very mage-y. Style points aside, am I missing some aspect of this that makes it worthwhile?

** spoiler omitted **

Hmm. Would my mage Bartleby waste a spell slot on that?

He'd prefer not to.

[Ipslore the Red]

Not having hands or otherwise being unable to write on your own.

[Bioboygamer]

Also, If you need to transcribe something really fast. Say, if you're infiltrating an enemy stronghold and need to return with vital information without actually taking the book/scroll/paper out of the stronghold.

For, say, a rogue taking the Minor Magic rogue talent, this is a pretty good option.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Bioboygamer wrote:

Also, If you need to transcribe something really fast. Say, if you're infiltrating an enemy stronghold and need to return with vital information without actually taking the book/scroll/paper out of the stronghold.

For, say, a rogue taking the Minor Magic rogue talent, this is a pretty good option.

I don't get what you mean. The book has to be with you when you scribe. 5 feet to be specific.

[Xethik]

If you have Eschew Materials, I suppose you do not need ink. There's that.

[Lune]

You do need ink. It is the material component.

I think Ipslore got it. You could potentially double your writing speed.

[StabbittyDoom]

Perhaps it's simply less tiring than doing it the hard way? It *is* a cantrip after all, so it's in the realm of being mildly convenient but not actually necessary, like using prestidigitation to clean your clothes. It's also the kind of thing an adept-scribe would have (or at least they would if the adept spell list wasn't a core-only never-to-be-expanded-again list).

[Xethik]

Lune wrote:

You do need ink. It is the material component.

I think Ipslore got it. You could potentially double your writing speed.

Isn't the whole point of Eschew Materials not needing the material components?

[Ughbash]

How long does it take you to write out a page of notebook paper?
30 seconds? a minute?

This lets you do it in 6 seconds.

If time is not important, then this spell is not either (except for a lazy sorceror I play).

[StabbittyDoom]

Ughbash wrote:

How long does it take you to write out a page of notebook paper?

30 seconds? a minute?

This lets you do it in 6 seconds.

If time is not important, then this spell is not either (except for a lazy sorceror I play).

Longer, but so is the spell. It takes 1 minute to copy a page with the spell.

It takes a minute to read a page. I'm not sure how long it would take me to copy a page, but it would definitely be longer than that. Probably 3 minutes? Just guessing here. Probably longer with a quill due to constant re-inking.

[Ughbash]

StabbittyDoom wrote:

Ughbash wrote:

How long does it take you to write out a page of notebook paper?

30 seconds? a minute?

This lets you do it in 6 seconds.

If time is not important, then this spell is not either (except for a lazy sorceror I play).

Longer, but so is the spell. It takes 1 minute to copy a page with the spell.

My apologies somehow when I read it I mentally said 1 page a round not 1 page a minute. I can STILL see my sorceror buying a runestone for this, he is just that lazy, but nowhere near as quick as I thought it was.

[Lune]

Xethik: Not everyone has Eschew Materials.

[lemeres]

Lune wrote:

Xethik: Not everyone has Eschew Materials.

Most sorcerers get it by default.

Not that this is the best cantrip, mind you. But Sorcerers eventually get 9 cantrips known, so maybe this is something to consider for number 5-9.

[Xethik]

Lune wrote:

Xethik: Not everyone has Eschew Materials.

I was coming up with quite a contrived example of it being more convenient than writing by hand. I apologize if that was not obvious.

But yes, it would be at least humorous as a style-point cantrip for Sorcerers.

[Bioboygamer]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Bioboygamer wrote:

Also, If you need to transcribe something really fast. Say, if you're infiltrating an enemy stronghold and need to return with vital information without actually taking the book/scroll/paper out of the stronghold.

For, say, a rogue taking the Minor Magic rogue talent, this is a pretty good option.

I don't get what you mean. The book has to be with you when you scribe. 5 feet to be specific.

It's still a fantastic way to copy information from the evil wizard's journal if he has some kind of alarm spell on it that goes off when the book is touched.

Alternatively, since the copy is in the caster's handwriting by default, it could be used to render something written in messy handwriting readable.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Bioboygamer wrote:

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Bioboygamer wrote:

Also, If you need to transcribe something really fast. Say, if you're infiltrating an enemy stronghold and need to return with vital information without actually taking the book/scroll/paper out of the stronghold.

For, say, a rogue taking the Minor Magic rogue talent, this is a pretty good option.

I don't get what you mean. The book has to be with you when you scribe. 5 feet to be specific.

It's still a fantastic way to copy information from the evil wizard's journal if he has some kind of alarm spell on it that goes off when the book is touched.

Alternatively, since the copy is in the caster's handwriting by default, it could be used to render something written in messy handwriting readable.

good points.

[Berti Blackfoot]

Apparently the benefit is you can do other things at the same time, which may be useful when you are measuring time in rounds. The only way I can imagine using it as a PC is if you are trying to secretly copy someone else's book (use one move action to concentrate on the spell, and another move to use perception to listen for anyone coming) or if you are transcribing spells during combat.

For it to be truly worthwhile the spell's range should be increased, even 10' at least gives you some stretching room. (I suppose you could put the book and paper on a cart then push it around).

Otherwise it might be one of those flavorful things for NPCs, since carpal tunnel and arthritis don't happen to PCs.

[Jayson MF Kip]

I can think of one PFS mission where we essentially "stole" an entire library's worth of books with this spell. Just paging through, copying.

[Big Chris]

It would continue to scribe during combat ,

[pad300]

I think people are wildly underestimating the amount of time saved.

https://thescribeunbound.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/clever-sluggards-how-fast -did-medieval-scribes-work/

Best estimate for medieval scribes is 25 lines/Hour.

That jibes pretty well with the rules from writing spells in spellbooks; 1 hr/spell level and 1 page/spell level.

Scrivener's Chant is a minute per page... That saves a lot of time. Especially if you've snuck into someone else's library where you don't belong.

[Northern Spotted Owl]

pad300 wrote:

I think people are wildly underestimating the amount of time saved.

https://thescribeunbound.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/clever-sluggards-how-fast -did-medieval-scribes-work/

Best estimate for medieval scribes is 25 lines/Hour.

That jibes pretty well with the rules from writing spells in spellbooks; 1 hr/spell level and 1 page/spell level.

Scrivener's Chant is a minute per page... That saves a lot of time. Especially if you've snuck into someone else's library where you don't belong.

Yes, exactly.

Let's say the hour/page rate is for archival quality calligraphy. And then, to be generous, let's say a quick working copy can be done at rate of 3 pages/hour. This is still a 20x improvement.

[Big Chris]

The poison pen ...

Ex. Our character is a NE rogue with Minor Magic but they don't have Poison Use.
Our rogue carefully uses Scrivener's to pen a deadly letter with contact poison .

They then use Mage Hand to place the poisoned letter in .
Again not teav
They're safe , the rec'er Not so much

[Mark Hoover 330]

Another advantage, albeit minor and niche, is transcription while traveling. If the spellcaster is using any kind of mount or vehicle, in other words they're not spending a Move action each round of 8 hours worth of travel, they can cast and concentrate on this spell for producing a copied work. If the typical "traveler's journal" sized book is 50 pages, if all 50 were being copied this spell could make 9 copies/day.

Since the spellcaster can concentrate while still performing other tasks, this leaves free a Standard action every six seconds for 8 hours. During that time are they working on a scroll? Fighting bandits? Using a second Move action to control their mount? Putting in 2 hours worth of work on a mundane Craft skill?

Now, a standard journal is a sturdy traveling book with an oilskin cover and 50 pages, costing 10 GP. A Book of Footprints is a sturdy traveler's guide meant for fieldwork with 50 pages and worth 50 GP. The difference between the 2 books is their weight; the standard journal weighs 1 lb, the Footprints Book weighs 3.

Neither book is magical. The book of footprints contains pictures, so maybe this is a bad example, but that book's info gives anyone using it a +2 Circumstance bonus to ID'ing a creature by its tracks. A PC wizard could spend 50 GP on the Footprint Book and 10 GP per copy they want to make, then scribe these copies while traveling for a day and doing other things.

If they're just copies to hand out to other PCs to help their Knowledge/Survival checks, maybe you don't need a roll. If they want something they can sell in the next town though, if they pull off a Linguistics check they might be able to sell the copies for full or even half price.

Initial investment is 68 GP (includes ink used in casting the spell). This is the investment for 1 copy; each additional copy increases the investment by 10 GP. If each copy were allowed to be sold for half price, 25 GP, but still counted as a Footprints Book after a successful Linguistics check, the PC would officially start profiting after selling 4 copies.

Again, maybe the illustrations in the Footprints Book negates my example, but the overall message is that this spell could be used in a niche way to generate a small profit for an enterprising, low-level spellcaster. Exploiting this niche even further, the caster could make their own mundane books using the crafting rules to keep their initial investments even lower, if they have the time.

Last but not least, I don't see ANYTHING here about the writing to be copied needing to be non-magical. Can anyone confirm? If you can copy magical writing with this spell, this is CERTAINLY useful as a spellbook duplicator.

Copying 5 level 1 spells, 3 level 2 spells and 3 level 3 spells requires a 5th level spellcaster to spend 220 GP and 10 hours. While this spell wouldn't reduce the materials needed I don't think, it WOULD drop the time to 10 minutes instead.

You could be copying enemy spellbooks and scrolls on the go too, so long as you had the equivalent materials paid for. Can someone tell me if I'm reading this wrong and you CAN'T actually copy magical writings with this spell?

[Mudfoot]

Depending on how you interpret the RAW ("concentrate upon the material"), you can do it in the dark. You may not even need to open the book. It might be chained up behind bars, or be in someone else's hand. Good for cheating in TV quiz shows.