Aldori is worse than scimitar/rapier, which are easy options anyway. Might change if you're using some of its specific feats, admittedly, but beyond that... not worth it. Scimitar/rapier are both perfectly 'viable' options in their own right. So's the whip, though it rocks a different sort of build. Rapier is piercing Dex to Damage too.
You know, for all of the incredibly numerous DRs out there that care about piercing.
kestral287 wrote: Kensai doesn't actually handle raw damage better than baseline or Hexcrafter. Ideal for raw damage is actually Beastblade, but that comes with a whole host of its own complications.
Mostly Kensai is helpful because it sets up your early feat progression and then applying Int to most of the traditional Dex stuff means that you either really dominate in things like initiative or you're merely really good at them but didn't have to shell out the two extra feats for Dex to Damage.
Magi dip Swashbuckler for Swashbuckler's Finesse though. Which is... really not worth it. Doubly so now that Effortless Lace is a thing, which, while it certainly still has a price tag associated with getting your weapon of choice kitted for Dex, has a lesser price than a Swash dip does.
I'm sorry, but how -doesn't- a Kensai out perform a baseline or Hexcrafter Magus?
The +1 to attack from weapon focus adds 5% more damage (in most cases) without criticals, and if we're using 18-20 weapons, it adds 5.75% more damage (6.5% on a 15-20 weapon).
Not to mention getting fighter feats sooner, as well as great critical confirmation rolls, and access to more critical feats.
Also, A swashbuckler dip is quite balanced. You gain a feat, 2 skill points, 2 HP, 2 to reflex saves, and 3 useful deeds that use a panache pool (notable for recharging, unlike arcane pool). You also gain martial weapon proficiency and +1 average damage on your weapon if your a Kensai. You lose 1 level of favored class (not that big of a deal), 1 level of progression for spells and abilities, and your capstone ability which honestly wasn't that great to begin with. Not saying it's a great option, as in take it every time, I'm saying it's a very balanced option.
Performance: Endurance, mostly.
A Kensai can run out of spells fairly easily. A baseline Magus has a much harder time of that thank to Spell Recall. And a Hexcrafter will always have hexes to fall back on, of course.
And of course... there's really nothing stopping a Hexcrafter from taking Weapon Focus, is there? Kensai has a lot of great selling points, that's far from their best one.
Hexcrafter in particular also benefits from more flexibility. With the Curses and the Hexes alike they can handle some things that the normal Magus spell list just can't do-- effectively target the Will save being an obvious one.
Beastblade can nova harder, but is really feat-intensive to get off the ground and doesn't kick in their nuclear option until level eleven-- and of course, nova means what it sounds like. They burn through resources pretty fast.
Swashbuckler: One level of progression is a really big deal. Of the gains, only the feat (or feats, for Inspired Blade) is really all that noticeable. 1 HP after FCB is not a big deal (and unless you lead Swashbuckler it will only be 1 HP, not 2), 2 skill points is really negligible on an Int caster, +1 damage at best is minimal, +2 to the worst save in the game is... eh? You're probably Dex-based anyway. The deeds are nice but... personally, I don't find myself in all that many situations where unlimited use will be of a major benefit, given you either don't get the damage boost or have a tiny pool to work with. I suppose if you constantly spam Parry/Riposte it's helpful, but the Immediate Action hurts.
It's somewhat viable but you need to make a solid case for it even being a break-even, let alone a gain.
I guess we have opposing opinions then :).
Btw, the culmination of many small bonuses make one good option, regardless of size.
Or maybe to be an elf. Bonuses on dex/int are great, take +hp as a favorite class bonus to negate con penalty. And you get free proficiency with Elven Blade, which is 1d10, 18-20/x3 crit 2h finessable weapon. You gain free weapon focus at the first level, take finesse as a 1st level feat, and you can add dex to damage at the 2rd level. Also this is 2h weapon, so you can have greater bonuses for power attack later
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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Slashing grace doesn't work with an Elven Curve Blade
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Also the crit is 18-20/x2, not 18-20/x3.
Arcane Deed "When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed. The magus must have the flamboyant arcana (see below) to select this arcana"
Precise Strike "At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or onehanded piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn’t multiplied on a critical hit."
If you are playing PFS you must go by Rules As Written. In terms of Rules As Intended it probably should work but the RAW is very clear. No mention is made of your Magus level counting for the purpose of effect.
If you take Heirloom Weapon (dueling sword, proficiency), and also take Sword Scion as your traits, you can not only start with a dueling sword, but a human can take Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace at first level.
You can pick up Additional Traits later if you want Reactionary and Magical Lineage.
Sword Scion isn't really necessary, but it gives you +1 to hit, like a free weapon focus.
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Bigguyinblack wrote: Arcane Deed "When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed. The magus must have the flamboyant arcana (see below) to select this arcana"
Precise Strike "At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or onehanded piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn’t multiplied on a critical hit."
If you are playing PFS you must go by Rules As Written. In terms of Rules As Intended it probably should work but the RAW is very clear. No mention is made of your Magus level counting for the purpose of effect.
... Yeah no. This kind of slavish devotion to RAW gives Pathfinder a bad name. It also completely ignores the fact that the rules are not written as formal logic statements (nor should they be) and must ALWAYS be interpreted.
As an example: "...he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level..."
Read as a logic statement, this implies that the Magus can only pick the deed if a swashbuckler of the same magus level can use it. Which is a pity, because that leaves a loophole where I can say: how about a Swashbuckler 15/Magus3? That has the same magus levels as me, so I can use level 15 deeds as a level 3 magus! Complete b@!%*@~~? Yes. Logically correct? Logically sound? Also yes because the manual doesn't have a 5 page definition of terms page like legal contracts do.
We are all interpreting the above statement to mean:"...as long as that deed can be used by a character whose levels in the class Swashbuckler are equal to the levels in the class Magus possessed by the picking character." And there is no argument. Why? Because rules are ALWAYS interpreted and this one is obvious. The fact that a Magus class feature that lets you emulate a Swashbuckler class feature (and in all other ways uses Magus elements rather than Swashbuckler elements) should use the Magus class levels as Swashbuckler class levels is also obvious because otherwise the ability is broken! If an overly strict interpretation of the words on the page completely breaks an ability, then it is obvious, as with my example above, that the overly strict interpretation is wrong.
Is the language slightly sloppy? Yes, the arcane deed writing could be a bit firmer. However the fact still stands: Written vs Interpreted is a false dichotomy because actually using strict, logical, lawyer-like RAW would collapse the entire gaming system.
Thaago wrote: The fact that a Magus class feature that lets you emulate a Swashbuckler class feature (and in all other ways uses Magus elements rather than Swashbuckler elements) should use the Magus class levels as Swashbuckler class levels is also obvious because otherwise the ability is broken! Actually, it's not. There are very few Arcane Deed situations where Swashbuckler levels are relevant; one of those situations just happens to involve the extremely powerful ability that everyone really wants. In the case of a Daring Champion's Precise Strike you can point to a clear intent, because the entire ability would be worthless otherwise. It's possible and even probable that the Arcane Deed rules as written are just an oversight, but it's also potentially possible that there was an intent to restrict the few abilities based on Swashbuckler level.
Anyhow this has gone around and around a million times already without a consensus. Going around again isn't going to accomplish much.
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