Can we please get back on topic? The OP is asking for ideas for a 3 hour session to run in Kenbres and I'm sure you all have better advice than I do!
So it isn't lost in the shuffle, here is what I suggested:
As for stuff you could do around the city for a session?
-The big unanswered question for me was the chief's son. You could work him into a pre-session in a bunch of ways. Perhaps he was sighted in Kenebres and they have to track him down? You could even culminate with them having to resolve a scuffle between him and some of the Mad Crusaders they encounter later.
That could give the broach they find later some more weight, especially if the Chief recognizes it. This can all be resolved between Book 1 & 2 with potentially reuniting the two, or perhaps allowing the son to replace one of the NPCs in Book 2.
I think it could be awesome having a descendant of the first crusade accompanying the players on what may be the last.
Creative Director
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Folks... let's try to get this thread back on advice on how to run the game. I get it that some of you don't like the campaign... we ALL get it. But that's not constructive for the point of this thread, which is advice to those who want to run it. If folks can't get back to constructive help, and want instead to harp on reasons to not play the campaign at all... this thread will have been officially derailed and should be closed.
There are already threads devoted to WorR disappointment. Your warning has been MORE than delivered.
Let's not poison those who want to run it with negativity. Thank you.
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Well, I finished GMing the AP this month and all I have to say is that you have to power up EVERYTHING and that very few enemies are actually mythic. Maybe because mythic is rare but anything non-mythic waves the PCs goodbye very very very soon. So I suggest to seriously improve the difficulty of the same monsters and making some of them mythic. Sc8rpi8n mjd has done an excellent job with the enemies statblocks, you may want to look up his thread.
The whole adventure has many highlights and I think that these are the points you may want to invest. Mostly at the beggining and the end of each book stuff happens and the players drop jaws. Make these scenes good and the players will be satisfied even without having to battle something!
I suggest that you ban the Ranger class. The whole adventure is made of demons, demons, demons, some tieflings and some undead. One of my players took 10 levels in ranger and it was pretty scary. Full level with champion for extra attacks and mobility will be just game breaking.
You should encourage the players to be heroes and not looters or b@st@rds that seek fame and gold. They should seek the end of the world's suffering or look into a similar path. It's not that the AP forbids it but the feeling will be better if a little globe of goodness goes, rampages and shatters every evil in its path.
Also
To finish for now, even if the players decide to battle Deskari at the end, he still retains his abyssal ressurection. That means that the PCs dont really kill him. That is THE WORST. serisously, noone wants that. If you reach that point rule it out as he has already died once with the worldwound closing or that he has temporarily lost his connection with his realm and cant ressurect.
My 4 players and I finished the AP last night and we all enjoyed it. Besides having the opportunity to level all the way to 20, there is just a lot in the AP for the players to latch on to from mongrel men to demon lords to goddesses.
As a GM you need to have fun, too, so relish the story and do more of what you like (role playing Galfrey) and drop what you don't (army combat). Beef up the bad-guys, try to split the party, use new maps for all the cool locations, paint up the minis for the big encounters(chimera, Deskari).
I agree completely with the advice to learn the swift/immediate action rules - I started landing hits when PCs didn't use mirror dodge so that they could save the action for offense (fleet charge, smite evil, etc.) Pepper them with saving throws so that some actions have to be for defense.
Be okay that some combats will be cake walks, cut out the 25% of encounters that you don't like, and spend your time improving the other encounters (I like the mythic templates and I did reference the statblock document) and making sure that you understand the monsters powers (which is a big challenges in this AP). Having a player remind me to Surge was helpful!
Start with the end in mind, and have the right group of players. Our goals were to tell a shared story, have fun, and learn the mythic rules. If it is not fun, or the rules are not working, talk with your players and see what you can do. One thing I had to do was get comfortable with really challenging them by winding up and not pulling any punches.
Little bump.
I'm trying to have an introductory adventure (since one of my four players won't be able to join until the second session) to get everyone into the feel of Kenabres.
Anyone know of a suitable level 1 "adventure" that I could use that would fit into a city like Kenabres. I'm also going for the whole "get to know your npc allies before fallling down the hole" a tinybit. Rumours and all that. :-)
I know it's probably too late but someone else might benefit from this.
I've just run the first session myself and I ran a pre game session to get the party introduced to the NPCs.
I started them out in Clydeswell Plaza to see Irabeth and several other knights being awarded medals and honours for their deeds over the last year. I had to work with each of the players in advance to work out why they were in Kenabres.
Lynn, sorcerer and animal handler, was selling a new breed of guard dog to be used in the crusades. She'd brought her prize hound and was working with Horgus Gwerm to arrange for business opportunities in the breeding and sale of them. She was attending the ceremony as Horgus guest to try to meet new contacts.
Sir Nyle, paladin and crusader, was looking for a squire to continue the tradition of knights training young warriors. He own former knight master had died recently and he was at the cathedral to honour his former mentor. Irabeth was considering Nyle for her own order but wanted to get to know him better before making a decision.
Dame Julianna, cleric and crusader, was being released from her own squireship and was at Clydewell Plaza to be formally released in a ceremony. She and Nyle are friends and he has invited her to attend as his guest.
Trap is a warforged alchemist. He is at Clydewell Plaza having been working with the ground crew to set up some fireworks for the evening's festivities. He is inspecting the fuses under the stands around the plaza.
That positions the PCs and some of the NPCs. If I'd had more time I would have created more NPCs. As it is there's an old noble woman, Terendelev, nearby and a stuffy elf, Aravashnial, is arguing with someone in the front row. As it is Irabeth and Anevia are together in the stands with two of the PCs. Horgus is with another and the fourth is nearby.
Irabeth is called to attend her ceremony and kisses her wife before walking across the plaza to a fanfare of trumpets. Once she's in the cathedral the PCs have some time for conversation with the NPCs. Anevia is awkward and self conscious without Irabeth but Horgus is a skilled conversationalist, eager to discuss business and his plans for expansion.
Lord Holrun comes out to give the blessing of the festival but as he speaks there is an explosion to the west and the frontage of the cathedral collapses on top of him. The ground opens up to allow giant demonic wasps (just use the giant wasp stats but describe them as demonic) to fly out and attack the crowd. Heroic PCs will leap forward to battle the wasps and the cultists in the crowd will strike at them from behind (1st level rogues). They should be able to fend off the attacks and even take out or or two of the wasps but then the Storm King emerges from rubble with a roar. Terendelev launches herself at the balor and they fight. More demons emerge, just dretches, nothing too powerful yet.
The point is to have the PCs fight to defend the crowd so that people can escape. The NPCs can assist here. Aravashnial's magic is particularly useful and can save a PC who is hard pressed. NPC clerics can channel energy to heal PCs who are wounded although it turns out that Julianna in my game kept bringing the other defenders back from the brink using her channel energy ability rather than the other way round. Just keep the fight going as long as you can and describe the battle against the dragon and demon lord. At some point the Storm King should attack the crowd. His whip should strike Aravashnial and blind him or another demon should tear through his defences and cut his eyes out. That was one reason why I placed him a little apart from the group so they couldn't prevent him being injured.
Keep the waves of demons coming and have slightly more powerful ones begin to emerge until the PCs are convinced that they can't hold the line. Have NPCs who they'd been talking to die (not Anevia or Horgus but others that you've created). Then have Terendelev die and the ground open up to drop the party into the undercity. It's a better beginning that just waking up in the cavern.
They'll start with few spells and few hit point. My group had one person unconscious and two on 1hp (the sorcerer was somehow still on full), the cleric had no more channel energy left and the sorcerer had only cantrips. Instead of the maggot encounter just have the room contain bodies and enough equipment to heal up with. I substituted Terendelev's scales for scales that allowed anyone within a 10 foot radius to be healed and rested as if they had a full day of rest when one was broken. That gave them a start. I also had Anevia panicking and insisting that they rush back to the surface to find Irabeth and Horgus panicking and insisting that they head to the surface and safety before demons followed them down to the tunnels. The idea was to create a sense of urgency to encourage them to get a move on rather than waste several days healing and relearning spells.
Though overwhelmed Kenabres needed them or thousands would die as the demons expanded into residential areas. They needed even the small help that the PCs could offer.
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So this might be a reactivation of the thread, but this is my take:
Character creation
15 point buy core characters only with the exception of Oracles (as they are really just divine sorcerers), and urban ranger archetype.
Core races + aasimars and tieflings.
4 players. I'm actually taking this group through Dragon's Demand first to see how they work together (good module! Mike did very good work, but I digress)
Mythic stuff (everybody's favorite talking point)
Mortal creatures, demons, cultists, and so forth are not meant to be mythic, hence why they are rare. The bodies of these creatures are not adapted to this power and so periodically it can fail as the power is incompatible with their bodies.
Limit of 1d2 mythic powers per turn
Every time (this includes mythic feats or tiered powers that do not require mythic power to activate) must make a mythic check. 10% chance of not working for tier 1 powers and all feats. 15% chance of not working for tier 3 powers. 25% chance of not working for tier 6 powers.
Mythic spellcasting = mythic concentration check. DC = 20 (or 15?) + double the mythic points you put into it. Mythic surge can not be used with this.
If you fail these checks you do not lose the mythic power.
Mythic crash. Sometimes the power is too much. Every time a mythic power is used, a roll a FORT save DC = 10 +previous mythic powers used. On a fail, you become staggered for 1d4 rounds and the fort save reverts back to the base save. After 8 hours of rest the save also resets to the base save.
This also applies to all mythic bad guys as well. Except Baphomet and Deskari.
At tier 10 the heroes are fully adapted to their new status and the penalties no longer apply as they have now become True Mythic. Just so they can really bring it to the final fight.
The point is to impress on the players that mythic power is a gift best spent wisely. Not every round. And to use a system that everyone is familiar with such as arcane armor checks and concentration checks. Yes it's more dice to roll, but if you don't like that, I doubt you are reading this thread. I think with this system, mythic power works most of the time, but bad things happen when you rely on it too much.
So comments? Feedback? Let me know.
Contributor
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Let's see... lot to unpack here.
15 PB, mostly Core only is OK.
I would strongly recommend against random chance in power use (1d2 per turn/10% chance of not working). It's unlikely to result in more fun.
If you're dead set on a version of this, maybe have something that happens after they've used a certain amount of mythic power in one fight - that way they can spend responsibly and enjoy their mythic nature, but if they nova, it burns them out. If there are consequences:
-No random chance of power failure. Even if the results aren't always predictable, like a little table of Mythic Overload effects, have the results be something they can understand and plan around once they happen.
-Something detrimental, but not completely punishing. Incurable fatigue/exhaustion or a penalty to caster level, at least until they recover their power.
That said, the better approach is probably to restrict options. I don't have a list of all the problem powers, but there's more than a few that need to be addressed.
Questions so far?
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Been running this campaign for the last two years (our group meets infrequently as a lot of us travel for work).
The general advice is pretty much all spoilers, too, so just to be safe...
The biggest problem I see as a GM is the ease with which players can bypass Damage Reduction at later levels of the game. Xanthir Vang was taken down in two rounds (after fully buffing him) without the characters spending even half of their surges to activate the path power that allows them to ignore DR (or Spell resistance, as was the case for the one dedicated caster).
Admittedly, this problem was larger about midway through the second book (the assault on Drezen citadel). The fight with Sotlen... g... er... Mythic Chimera they still needed to make strategic use of their points, but with only a few more uses as a party they managed to take on Staunton and Eustoriax a days rest apart and with a full load of surges each. Perhaps I could have ruled it better, but as written they were allowed the chance to rest more or less without penalty between the events.
The other problem is that the main villains need some more support against my group. I've started adding extra mooks (non experience point minion type creatures that can't do much damage to the characters, but enough they can't just be ignored. Most of them die in a single combat round and serve mostly to let the boss get off a cool shot or two to actually threaten my group. admittedly my dice don't help much as I can generally roll higher with a d4 than a d20...) At current level I've started handing out some of the anti-mythic weapons as a standard part of the equipment for any non-mythic opponent that carries a magic weapon to begin with (+2 to hit, +2d6 to damage has made the combats between boss fights more memorable), and it was fun to watch the group try and figure out why they couldn't use Mythic Surges while holding certain weapons that suppress them. It has also helped cut down on my groups tendency to hyper-loot to the point of checking under a minimum 2 levels of flooring and wall cover (just in case. Also, the masonry's worth money, right? As the GM I know otherwise, but cut us some slack, the group's average age here is 40, so we're a bit set in our patterns here)
And finally, my group specifically, has started looking up spells and effects that drain another's mythic power. They seem to have an uncanny ability to home in on Mythic opponents and start absorbing power. In reality, they try to absorb everything, once it succeeds they home in on the one until it stops giving and move along to the next...
So right about now I'm at a point where the game makes sense to have some escaped villains come back, having seen how the group operates, and maybe even having built up a group of their own to help take down those who once defeated them
Overall I've been loving this campaign. I can't wait to see what my players do in the latter half of the campaign, and with a little luck they won't find out that the gods play by a whole different set of rules 'the hard way'...
Let's see... lot to unpack here.
15 PB, mostly Core only is OK.
I would strongly recommend against random chance in power use (1d2 per turn/10% chance of not working). It's unlikely to result in more fun.
If you're dead set on a version of this, maybe have something that happens after they've used a certain amount of mythic power in one fight - that way they can spend responsibly and enjoy their mythic nature, but if they nova, it burns them out. If there are consequences:
-No random chance of power failure. Even if the results aren't always predictable, like a little table of Mythic Overload effects, have the results be something they can understand and plan around once they happen.
-Something detrimental, but not completely punishing. Incurable fatigue/exhaustion or a penalty to caster level, at least until they recover their power.
That said, the better approach is probably to restrict options. I don't have a list of all the problem powers, but there's more than a few that need to be addressed.
Questions so far?
Thanks for the feedback. You're the second person to warn me against the random effects with mythic so I'll scrap that idea. I like your mythic overload table idea. I'll have to come up with one.
The reason I say staggered is because I found restricting action economy is the best chance to make fights more challenging. But I don't want the characters to die either. What about a curse effect? Too many mythic surges and they get affected by bestow curse no save. Or confusion effect? Get the party to use some of their mythic power on each other.
For the avatar with no name. What CR rating was your mooks as compared to the PCs?
The AP runs fine up until book 3. At that point some things become unwieldy and require some tailoring. I highly recommend the altered npc blocks you can find in this forum, they are interesting and bring the NPC's to a good level with the PC's.
Do not hesitate to do cool things or say something doesn't work because magic or gods or something. I had certain NPC's protected by Deskari or other evil deities difficult to smite (sort of like smite resistance if that makes sense).
Also I very much recommend using Legenday Games Mythic Plug Ins. They will give you a good set up right from the start.
For the avatar with no name. What CR rating was your mooks as compared to the PCs?
Sorry for the reply delay. Let's blame the holidays...
Anyway, it's been scaling upward. Remember that two mythic tiers equals a CR level, so I've been figuring that in to the PC's combined level and trying to hit about a combined CR level averaging about two levels below the PCs (in the case of not having the mythic-bane weapons to use against them), or four levels down if equipped. Also keep in mind this is independant of the original encounter, and necessity and mileage of this can vary depending on how willing you are to have a reactive dungeon. Note that most demons have some variety of telepathy, and a quasit watching the battle from concealment can track the party and organize one hell (or, given that they're demons rather one abyss) of an ambush. Of course they ARE demons (mostly, a few cultists and whatnot), so cooperation isn't guaranteed. Or implied. Or even really all that easy to write into the path itself (in a few places, at least, the demons are at odds with each other as much or more than the PCs, so I used that as an excuse for one dungeon, the next they faced five bosses all at once having "learned" a little cooperation. While this should have worked, I rolled no higher than 3 on my d20's for the whole session. I literally rolled higher on a d4 on a roll for roll basis. I was never more grateful for the ridiculous +25 to hit numbers some of the thugs sported (and in one case still couldn't hit with)...
Incidentally, they threw a new trick at me last night. I suspect they might finally be learning...
Or reading my posts.
Or both...