Aasimar / Tiefling: The Return


Pathfinder Society

Grand Lodge

Aasimar/Teifling are two of the most popular non-core races. At the end of season 5/beginning of season 6 they are no longer an available option.

So the question is, how long until they come back? Will they be a race boon or open to the public? Something else maybe?

Grand Lodge 4/5

They might return as a race boon, but they have not made anything public on that front yet.

Sovereign Court

I'm making sure I make a Kitsune, Tengu, Nagaji, and a Wayang. JUST IN CASE they wind up shifting to being boon races. (Again, in the case of all but Tengu)

As far as the Aasimar and Tieflings go, I guess it was relevant that they could be selectable with the whole Worldwound thing going on. Unless I'm mistaken.

Scarab Sages

I don't foresee them returning as fully open to the public. They are just a little bit too powerful for full use, since there was little reason not to be one (especially a Tiefling with fun alternate racial traits, like bite). You get darkvision, a spell-like ability, and 3 resistances? Score!

Once they added in the variants from Blood of Fiends and Blood of Angels, there was almost no reason not to be one, since you could practically chose which abilities had the bonus.

However, I could see the leadership bringing back Tiefling and Aasimar as a boon race, since there would be limited numbers. They could make it a scenario boon, too. Maybe a story arc in Cheliax or something leading to Infernal Tieflings joining the society, so a player with that scenario boon can make one Tiefling character.

Silver Crusade

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I think That the PFS team made a mistake taking Teifling and AAsamir away
neither race is game breaking in anyway. I oppose boons for races because it discriminates Against those of us who cannot afford to go to conventions.

AN easy way to balance outsider races would be to include all of them but
require them to have 4 chronicles for levels 1 and 2.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Lou Diamond wrote:

I think That the PFS team made a mistake taking Teifling and AAsamir away

neither race is game breaking in anyway. I oppose boons for races because it discriminates Against those of us who cannot afford to go to conventions.

AN easy way to balance outsider races would be to include all of them but
require them to have 4 chronicles for levels 1 and 2.

The aasimar and tieflings themselves were just good, but the bloodlines effectively turned the two races into 14, an dwere the only way to get some stat combinations. They were ousted for a good reason: half the new characters were one or the other.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Lou Diamond wrote:

I think That the PFS team made a mistake taking Teifling and AAsamir away

neither race is game breaking in anyway. I oppose boons for races because it discriminates Against those of us who cannot afford to go to conventions.

AN easy way to balance outsider races would be to include all of them but
require them to have 4 chronicles for levels 1 and 2.

The aasimar and tieflings themselves were just good, but the bloodlines effectively turned the two races into 14, an dwere the only way to get some stat combinations. They were ousted for a good reason: half the new characters were one or the other.

Then make the alternate bloodlines boon-only?

3/5

Did the PFS leadership ever say that was why? I recall them saying that they just wanted to change things up to keep them fresh.


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It's that they want to change things up. In another year or so, we'll lose Kitsune, Nagaji, and Wayangs, and get another set of races.

I am currently trying to figure out which dark god to make blood sacrifices to in order to make the new races be Skinwalkers, because those are awesome.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I was glad to see them go as a standard available race. It gets boring and implausible running games for party after party comprised completely of Aasimars and Tieflings. That said, I wouldn't mind if they were available as a Scenario boon from time to time, but IMO, most characters should be from the core races in the main rulebook. Maybe a new guideline for the funky races could be created which allows you to select one non-core race for each DM star you have. That way those who help make the game fun for everyone would have the chance to pick out a couple of odd races like Ratkin, Dhampir's, etc... and try them out, without there being a tsunami of them in the general gaming pool.

Sovereign Court

Shroud wrote:
I was glad to see them go as a standard available race. It gets boring and implausible running games for party after party comprised completely of Aasimars and Tieflings. That said, I wouldn't mind if they were available as a Scenario boon from time to time, but IMO, most characters should be from the core races in the main rulebook. Maybe a new guideline for the funky races could be created which allows you to select one non-core race for each DM star you have. That way those who help make the game fun for everyone would have the chance to pick out a couple of odd races like Ratkin, Dhampir's, etc... and try them out, without there being a tsunami of them in the general gaming pool.

Yeah - some games feel like the Mos Eisley cantina.

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lou Diamond wrote:

AN easy way to balance outsider races would be to include all of them but

require them to have 4 chronicles for levels 1 and 2.

Your solution to balance a powerful race option is to give them 1/3 more WBL for the first two levels?

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:


Yeah - some games feel like the Mos Eisley cantina.

You make that sound like a bad thing?

Sovereign Court

J-Bone wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:


Yeah - some games feel like the Mos Eisley cantina.

You make that sound like a bad thing?

It's not inherently bad - but it's not the standard vibe which Pathfinder is aiming towards.

5/5

Not only are they stupidly powerful, especially with the variants being around, they break any scenarios that rely on spells like dominate person, charm person and the like.

Shadow Lodge

Mekkis wrote:

Not only are they stupidly powerful, especially with the variants being around, they break any scenarios that rely on spells like dominate person, charm person and the like.

only tiefligs did that ... Aasimars had an alternate racial trait called Scion of humanity - they now count as humanoid for the purposes of spells

I know I personally took it on every Aasimar I ever made since I just didnt want to deal with always checking

but yes they were overpowered - especially aasimars

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

redward wrote:
Lou Diamond wrote:

AN easy way to balance outsider races would be to include all of them but

require them to have 4 chronicles for levels 1 and 2.

Your solution to balance a powerful race option is to give them 1/3 more WBL for the first two levels?

Sounds more like forcing native outsiders to take the slow XP track for their first two levels, would be more in line with his intention.

Shadow Lodge

I like race boons for uncommon races, though I sympathise with people who can't get to cons.

Playing online is always an option for almost anyone playing PFS, though I don't know if there's been any news lately on online cons? This is only a resolution where distance to a con is a factor. If it's something else, what is it? Wanting to play with your own group likely doesn't qualify as reasonable - this is organised play and you're after an uncommon character option.

Every tengu character I've seen added to the table's quality of play; aasimars and tieflings almost never did (almost always built for optimised mechanics rather than roleplay), so I'm happy to see them back on race boons only. It was cool of the Paizo crew to even keep allowing them on the boons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Did the PFS leadership ever say that was why? I recall them saying that they just wanted to change things up to keep them fresh.

They also saw a crapton of Aasimar and Tiefling characters being made. And they wanted to move the campaign away from being dominated by them.

That said, they were very generous in giving people time to grandfather them before the race availability was taken away.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Shroud wrote:
I was glad to see them go as a standard available race. It gets boring and implausible running games for party after party comprised completely of Aasimars and Tieflings. That said, I wouldn't mind if they were available as a Scenario boon from time to time, but IMO, most characters should be from the core races in the main rulebook. Maybe a new guideline for the funky races could be created which allows you to select one non-core race for each DM star you have. That way those who help make the game fun for everyone would have the chance to pick out a couple of odd races like Ratkin, Dhampir's, etc... and try them out, without there being a tsunami of them in the general gaming pool.

Is that new non-Core PCs, or including existing ones from various boons?

I have four stars, but, due to boons, a lot more than 4 non-Core PCs.

Dhampyr
Kitsune
Ifrit
Sylph
Undine
Oread
Aasimar (2)
Teifling (2)

I think that makes the rest:
Human (22 or more)

Scarab Sages

A couple of weeks ago on a Know Direction podcast, John Compton, was a guest. He stated that it is possible that aasimar and tiefling boons make an appearance at Gencon

Grand Lodge 4/5 ⦵⦵

Game Master wrote:

It's that they want to change things up. In another year or so, we'll lose Kitsune, Nagaji, and Wayangs, and get another set of races.

I am currently trying to figure out which dark god to make blood sacrifices to in order to make the new races be Skinwalkers, because those are awesome.

As much as I would like a Skinwalker, I believe I saw one at the GenCon charity auction. So that means there will only ever be that one skinwalker...

Grand Lodge 4/5

Dennis Gregg wrote:
Game Master wrote:

It's that they want to change things up. In another year or so, we'll lose Kitsune, Nagaji, and Wayangs, and get another set of races.

I am currently trying to figure out which dark god to make blood sacrifices to in order to make the new races be Skinwalkers, because those are awesome.

As much as I would like a Skinwalker, I believe I saw one at the GenCon charity auction. So that means there will only ever be that one skinwalker...

It actually just means it's unlikely. As far as I'm aware, those boons are only guaranteed to be unique for a period of a few years, not for life.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Jeff Merola wrote:
Dennis Gregg wrote:
Game Master wrote:

It's that they want to change things up. In another year or so, we'll lose Kitsune, Nagaji, and Wayangs, and get another set of races.

I am currently trying to figure out which dark god to make blood sacrifices to in order to make the new races be Skinwalkers, because those are awesome.

As much as I would like a Skinwalker, I believe I saw one at the GenCon charity auction. So that means there will only ever be that one skinwalker...
It actually just means it's unlikely. As far as I'm aware, those boons are only guaranteed to be unique for a period of a few years, not for life.

I heard the same ting. At least a year of exclusivity, then after that it's anyone's guess.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Aasimars/Tieflings became openly available in Season 4.

Season 5 was Year of the Demon.

By Season 6 they were no longer available.

--------------------------------

Nagaji became openly available in Season 6.

Season 7 is Year of the Serpent.

I'm predicting that by Season 8, Nagaji will no longer be available.

--------------------------------

I think the Aasimar/Tiefling release and recall was planned.

Such a strategy prepares the player base to build characters well ahead of time, naturally and with no expectations, and have them available to play at all levels when the intended Season is finally released.

Or not. I think about stuff like this probably more than I should.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

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I personally would have left them in play and banned the alternate heritages instead. Suddenly, no incentive to make a glut of characters.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

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Nefreet wrote:

Season 7 is Year of the Serpent.

erm.. what? I thought it was year of the admantine greatsword.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

2 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
erm.. what? I thought it was year of the admantine greatsword.

Has there yet been a year that wasn't?

Sovereign Court 5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

Season 7 is Year of the Serpent.

erm.. what? I thought it was year of the admantine greatsword.

It's always the year of the admantine greatsword!

3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
LazarX wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Did the PFS leadership ever say that was why? I recall them saying that they just wanted to change things up to keep them fresh.

They also saw a crapton of Aasimar and Tiefling characters being made. And they wanted to move the campaign away from being dominated by them.

That said, they were very generous in giving people time to grandfather them before the race availability was taken away.

Well, again, did they SAY that or is that something you've inferred?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Muse wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

Season 7 is Year of the Serpent.

erm.. what? I thought it was year of the admantine greatsword.
It's always the year of the admantine greatsword!

Your name might have one letter less, but you are still so right!

3/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
The aasimar and tieflings themselves were just good, but the bloodlines effectively turned the two races into 14, an dwere the only way to get some stat combinations. They were ousted for a good reason: half the new characters were one or the other.

Where you are maybe. In the three-ish years I have been playing/running PFS I have seen a grand total of 4 aasimar and 1 tiefling.

And that is including the two I made myself during the grace period, one of which is a GM-credit baby that has never been played, and the other was effectively killed by the Mystic Theurge FAQ change.

OTOH, well over half of all characters I have made and played alongside have been human. Maybe we should make them boon only?

EDIT: Just to be clear, that last bit was sarcasm. I do not think they should ban humans. Or any of the other races which massively outnumber planetouched (including, weirdly, halflings).

_
glass.


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Ban humans, they are stupidly OP and the optimal choice for almost every single character build. I can't believe PFS management ever even let them be a legal choice. All of the alternative racial traits and glut of human-specific traits and favoured class bonuses just makes the problem even worse.

I mean, do you even know how many human characters are played in PFS? More than all the rest combined!

/tongue in cheek

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Yeah - some games feel like the Mos Eisley cantina.

In a far-distant alternate universe:

The powers that be decide to make all races legal for Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

Okay.

NNNOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW it looks like the Mos Eisley Cantina!

Sovereign Court

glass wrote:
and the other was effectively killed by the Mystic Theurge FAQ change.

As long as they took at least 1 level of Mystic Theurge before the FAQ change they should be good to go. (The screwing over of current MTs was brought up in another thread, and either a developer of Mike Brock said that they were grandfathered. I forget who exactly - I just remember thinking that 'well - it's offical'.)

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
glass wrote:
and the other was effectively killed by the Mystic Theurge FAQ change.
As long as they took at least 1 level of Mystic Theurge before the FAQ change they should be good to go. (The screwing over of current MTs was brought up in another thread, and either a developer of Mike Brock said that they were grandfathered. I forget who exactly - I just remember thinking that 'well - it's offical'.)

You're assuming that they managed to get a level of Mystic Theurge.

Sovereign Court

Jeff Merola wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
glass wrote:
and the other was effectively killed by the Mystic Theurge FAQ change.
As long as they took at least 1 level of Mystic Theurge before the FAQ change they should be good to go. (The screwing over of current MTs was brought up in another thread, and either a developer of Mike Brock said that they were grandfathered. I forget who exactly - I just remember thinking that 'well - it's offical'.)
You're assuming that they managed to get a level of Mystic Theurge.

No - hence my opening with the qualifier "As long as".

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
glass wrote:
and the other was effectively killed by the Mystic Theurge FAQ change.
As long as they took at least 1 level of Mystic Theurge before the FAQ change they should be good to go. (The screwing over of current MTs was brought up in another thread, and either a developer of Mike Brock said that they were grandfathered. I forget who exactly - I just remember thinking that 'well - it's offical'.)
You're assuming that they managed to get a level of Mystic Theurge.
No - hence my opening with the qualifier "As long as".

I think you ment: As long as they have 1 (or 0,5) XP more than needed for the level of MT.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Tennessee—Memphis aka Thrawn007

glass wrote:

Where you are maybe. In the three-ish years I have been playing/running PFS I have seen a grand total of 4 aasimar and 1 tiefling.

In my area, I see individual tables with more than that.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

Glass, let me toss out the notion that some of us have a broader base of anecdote to draw upon.

I do wonder, now that the SLA fix is in place, whether one of the under-discussed reasons to push out the Infernal and Divine touched bloodlines is ameliorated.

I'm not privy to all of the reasons for the rotation, but I personally suspect that the SLA qualification path was a contributor to their perceived power level. Removing that path alleviates one angle of power.

Dark Archive

Brigg wrote:
I'm making sure I make a Kitsune, Tengu, Nagaji, and a Wayang. JUST IN CASE they wind up shifting to being boon races. (Again, in the case of all but Tengu)

Yeah, I intend to make a few 4xp characters of those races before Gencon just because I expect Paizo to take all the fun toys away without warning and with much stricter grandfathering limits this time after the abuse that happened last time and how they treated the SLA thing. Even though grinding a bunch of random characters to 2 as a just-in-case is a lot less fun than playing my actual characters, I'm kind of expected Paizo to be extremely heavy handed when they do remove those races due to the abuse from last time, and I'm worried if I don't do that, that I'll never get the chance to play them.

Dark Archive

Brigg wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Yeah - some games feel like the Mos Eisley cantina.

In a far-distant alternate universe:

The powers that be decide to make all races legal for Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

Okay.

NNNOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW it looks like the Mos Eisley Cantina!

That, or multiple parties made up of nothing but Tetori Monk Succubi :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Did the PFS leadership ever say that was why? I recall them saying that they just wanted to change things up to keep them fresh.

They also saw a crapton of Aasimar and Tiefling characters being made. And they wanted to move the campaign away from being dominated by them.

That said, they were very generous in giving people time to grandfather them before the race availability was taken away.

Well, again, did they SAY that or is that something you've inferred?

Well obviously they didn't use my language, but yes that was one of the pieces of commentary. I am however fairly sure that there never was an intention of having either permanently available.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

Year of the Serpant, eh? Is the Kobold race boon forthcoming?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber
thaX wrote:
Year of the Serpant, eh? Is the Kobold race boon forthcoming?

That's my speculation for Tier 1 Race for Gencon this year.

Especially with the True Dragons super special....

3/5

TetsujinOni wrote:
Glass, let me toss out the notion that some of us have a broader base of anecdote to draw upon.

A different base, perhaps. Not sure what basis you would have to assume yours is broader than mine.

_
glass.

Silver Crusade

Start a home game group, disregard all race-boon shenanigans.

*Drops mic*

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