Any advice / critique on my Ifrit Sorcerer build


Advice


Hi there!

I was just wondering if anyone could give me a critique on this Ifrit Sorcerer build of mine. It's not for a game, or anything like that. Just seeing how to go about making a spiffy blaster of an Ifrit Sorcerer and see if anyone has any pointers on it.

Here was my cunning plan for feats, by level (including bonus feat at level 7):
1. Point-Blank Shot (Combat)
3. Precise Shot (Combat)
5. Spell Focus (Evocation)
7. Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
7. Skill Focus (Knowledge [planes]) - bonus feat for level 7
9. Eldritch Heritage (Efreeti)
11. Arcane Blast
13. Improved Eldritch Heritage (Efreeti)

Thanks in advance!


What bloodline?


@Hoegyhead:

Sorry; silly of me!

It's the Elemental (fire) Bloodline. To take advantage of the effective +2 boost to charisma that Ifrit get with that one bloodline.

I was looking a Eldritch Heritage (Efreeti) so he would ultimate get lots and lots of fire rays per day, as well as the Efreet Form power on top of everything else.

I thought that would make things interesting.


Here's the bit I should've had in the first post with initial numbers and stuff that I first came up with:

Vital Statistics:

Ilper'aja
Ifrit Sorcerer (Fire Elemental Bloodline) Level 1
Chaotic Neutral Outsider (native)
Initiative: +5
Perception: +4

======
DEFENCE
======

AC 11, Touch 11, Flat-Footed 10
HP 7
FORT +1
REF +1
WILL +1

======
OFFENCE
======

SPEED 30 ft.
MELEE:
• Light Mace (1d6+1; x2)
• Sickle (1d6+1; x2)
RANGED:
• Light Crossbow (1d8, 80 ft; 19-20/x2)
SPACE; 5 ft.
REACH; 5 ft.
SPELLS KNOWN: (CL 1, Touch +1, Ranged Touch +1, Concentration +6):
• level 0 (at will): Flare (DC 16), Ray of Frost (DC 16), Disrupt Undead, Mage Hand
• level 1 (5/day): Touch of Combustion (DC 17), Magic Missile (DC 17)

======
STATISTICS
======

STR 12 (+1), DEX 12 (+1), CON 12 (+1), INT 14 (+2), WIS 9 (-1), CHA 18 (+4)
BAB +0; CMB +1; CMD 12
Feats: Point-Blank Shot (Combat)
Traits: Seeker (social), Reactionary (combat)
Skills:
• Intimidate +8 (1 rank)
• Knowledge (arcna) +6 (1 rank)
• Knowledge (planes) +6 (1 rank)
• Linquistics +3 (1 rank) (not a class skill)
• Perception +4 (1 rank) (Seeker; bonus & class skill)
Languages: Common, Ignan, Aquan, Auran, and Terran
SQ (Class Features): Fire Elemental Ray, Cantrips, and Eschew Materials
Current Kit (Stuff)
• Mace, Light
• Sickle
• Bolts, crossbow (20)
• Crossbow, light
• Ink (2 x 1 oz bottles)
• Ink Pen (2)
• Journal (2)
• Spell Component Pouch
• Hot Weather Outfit
• backpack
• bedroll
• belt pouch
• flint and steel
• iron pot
• mess kit
• soap
• torches (10)
• trail rations (5)
• water skin
Total encumbrance of 39 lbs. (light)

======
SPECIAL ABILITIES
======

Traits, class abilities, and feats … in brief
• Charisma is effectively +2 for all sorcerer class abilities (race & bloodline)
• Fire Elemental Ray (1d6+1 damage, 8 times/day)
• Cantrips (level 0 spells)
• Eschew Materials (bonus class feat)
• Seeker trait: +1 trait bonus to Perception, which is also a class skill
• Reactionary trait: +2 trait bonus to Initiative
• Point-Blank Shot: +1 to hit and damage for ranged attacks within 30 feet

======
PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION
======

Age: 71 years old
Height: 5 ft 10 in (178 cm)
Weight: 140 lbs (64 kg)
Skin: Swarthy/Bronze
Build: Slim
Hair: Long, flame-like
Eyes: Solid Orange, with no discernible irises nor pupils
Special: has vestigial horns that look like bronze


Any comments, anyone?


Well the thing about Elemental Ray is that it's awful. 1d6+1/2levels is terribly weak compared to any proper spells. If you want to blast things with fire rays, Scorching Ray or Fiery Shuriken modified by Arcane Strike and metamagic is going to be far, far, far more effective. You could also ask for Flame Blade as a bonus spell based on your heritage, and do some cool things with that.


I think you are better off served taking wayang spellhunter/magical lineage than the traits you have. If you want to go for rays, apply them to scorching ray and pick up a bunch of metamagics. Otherwise, apply them to fireball and take dazing spell.


@BadBird:

Okay, thanks for those tips. I'll have a closer look at them to figure out how to put those in there. Haven't had a chance to use Metamagic feats yet, so that's good to know!

Thanks for that!


@Blakmane:

Thanks for that. I obviously need to have a closer look at the metamagic feats, which I've not used yet.

I guess I shouldn't bother with the Eldritch Heritage idea, should I?


Okay; revised cunning plan, should I ever play this character:

level 1: Spell Focus (Evocation)
level 3: Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
level 5: Burning Spell (Metamagic)
level 7: Persistent Spell (Metamagic)
level 7 (bloodline) : Improved Initiative
level 9: Reach Spell (Metamagic)
level 11: Arcane Blast
level 13: Intensified Spell (Metamagic)
level 13 (bloodline) : Empower Spell

Any thoughts about if this is better for an Ifrit sorcerer with the Elemental (fire) bloodline?

Thanks in advance!


Better.

I don't personally think the whole spell focus tree is worth the feat tax. Increasing caster level increases DC and damage dice. Take a look at mage's tattoo feat, spell specialization and precocious spellcaster trait.

Check out spell perfection after level 13.

If you really want to have the best one trick pony in town, this is the way. Personally, I like throwing in some conjuration just in case my GM notices that I can only do one thing!

Grand Lodge

Caster Level does not change the DC, though it can get you higher damage via more dice, till you hit the caps.

If you wanna go area spells, the Spell Focus (and Elemental Focus) do go a long way.

If you wanna go targeted, the Caster Level increases are better, as targeted tends to have to deal with SR.

I would remove persistent and Reach to add in the Elemental Focus. At 9th, you could have a DC for Burning Hands around 19, before Magic Items. That is 10+4 from feats+1 from spell level+4 from CHA. This is all assuming you are going for Area Nuke. Fireball would be a delicious 21.


@MyCupRunnethOver: Thanks for those suggestions. I'll have a closer look at those feats. I was looking at the spell focus mostly because the big-ticket items (fire and elemental spells) for this spell caster fall under that school of spells.

Mage's Tattoo does look rather interesting.

Speaking of Mage's Tattoo… Do you think this would be a better build with the Tattooed Sorcerer Archetype? He'd have the benefit of the Mage's Tattoo feat from the start, which would be a good thing!

Spell Perfection looks cool too. But I'll have to play this one and survive to that level too. But it is a cool option to make a note of.

There's just so many feats to keep track of! Phew!

Thanks for all that!


@Dafydd: thanks for the suggestion. Elemental Focus should've been an obvious choice. I guess I didn't have the Caffeine Focus feat happening when I was looking at feats on my browser!

But Elemental Focus (fire) would be a natural for this sorcerer!


Right!

I tweaked this sorcerer a bit. Haven't updated the profile yet. Work in progress sort of thing. Here's the bare bones of what I've got now:

mini crunch:

Stats
STR 12
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 9
CHA 18
Initiative = +7 (Wildfire Heart and Reactionary trait)
Perception = +4
Hit Points = 7 HP

FEATS PLAN (optimistically assuming he lives that long!)
level 1: Spell Focus (Evocation)
level 3: Mage's Tattoo
level 5: Spell Specialization (Fireball) (Sizzle!)
level 7: Elemental Focus (fire) (to give all fire spells a bit more 'oomph')
level 7 (bloodline) : Improved Initiative (just because)
level 9: Elemental Spell (Metamagic) (for opposition that can resist fire)
level 11: Arcane Blast
level 13: Focused Spell (Metamagic) (there's always one really annoying enemy!)
level 13 (bloodline) : Empower Spell

-----

There's always the problem of trying to balance all this with precious few feat slots!

Thanks again for any tips and such anyone provides. It's all appreciated!


Of course, from level 8-9 or so, spell resistance is going to be a problem unless you use no-SR spells. The only real way to mitigate that is Spell Penetration.


@Sissyl: Thanks for that. Sound advice. And it shows you how often I play sorcerers at that level (like, never, as yet). I made another wee tweak on the cunning plans for feats, based on what you said:

level 1: Spell Focus (Evocation)
level 3: Mage's Tattoo
level 5: Spell Specialization (Fireball)
level 7: Elemental Focus (fire)
level 7 (bloodline) : Improved Initiative
level 9: Spell Penetration
level 11: Arcane Blast
level 13: Elemental Spell (Metamagic)
level 13 (bloodline) : Empower Spell

mini crunch:

Stats
STR 12
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 14 (to buff up what skills he does have)
WIS 9
CHA 18
Initiative = +7 (wildfire heart racial trait, and reactionary combat trait)
Perception = +4
Hit Points = 7 HP

Of course, I'll need to select a few spells other than fire/blasting spells, but I'll worry about the specifics on that if/when I can actually put this character through his paces.


There are actually other ways to mitigate SR. Dweomer's Essence or Sure Casting (use with Quicken Spell), or anything which increases caster level.


@avr: those are interesting, thanks. I'll make a note of those!

Grand Lodge

At 13th level, do you need Elemental Spell?

Your Arcana changes your spells to fire already. Course, I could see you getting it for Cold, so that ER and immunity to Fire do not ruin your day. That said, that would be better as a rod or learning cold spells to turn to fire with arcana.


A lesser rod would be cheap and cover you up to level 3 spells, buy a couple if you think you'll need it.


And a rod of piercing spell too for those fireballs. You could then squeeze in greater elemental spell and greater spell focus evocation to make those saving throws as high as possible!


@Ooze licker: thanks for that. I'll have a look at rods like that if/when my character has some cash to splash. But those do look like pretty good options to replace feats with something else.

Just have to remember never to leave home without one while out adventuring!

Sovereign Court

Ilper'aja wrote:
Any comments, anyone?

I award you Classy Player points for eschewing the dualblooded archetype.


deusvult wrote:
Ilper'aja wrote:
Any comments, anyone?
I award you Classy Player points for eschewing the dualblooded archetype.

Actually, I just plain forgot that archetype. I just had a quick look at it to jog my memory. The drawbacks are significant. Especially -2 to the WILL save.

On the other hand, that could make things interesting. It would be one way to max out being a blaster, at the expense of spells known and WILL save. At least he'd still an effective CHA of 20 for his class abilities because of the Fire Elemental bloodline.


Forget the dualblood archetype! I just read through that archetype and the Efreeti and Fire Elemental bloodlines. Both are so similar, there's not really any point in doing that!


avr wrote:
There are actually other ways to mitigate SR. Dweomer's Essence or Sure Casting (use with Quicken Spell), or anything which increases caster level.

Well, the first is 500 gp per spell. The second is a spell you need to cast, bombing your action economy. Increasing caster level is always a good idea, of course.


Any other feats for boosting (effective) caster level or DC? Already talked about Elemental Focus, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Mage's Tattoo.

Would there be any other feats that might help in Caster Level or spell DC? I see there's Tenacious Transmutation that gives +2 DC to transmutation. But I don't think there are enough Transmutation [fire] spells to make that feat investment too useful.


One other question, if anyone's still out there.

What would anyone there think would be a better choice for an Ifrit sorcerer? The Efreeti or the Fire Elemental bloodline?

They're both quite similar.

The Efreeti bloodline is definitely the more thematic of the two

But the Ifrit does get to treat his/her charisma score as 2 higher for all class abilities with the Fire Elemenetal bloodline, which is kind of significant all-round.

I think either one would have the makings of a decent blasting sort of character. Just can't make up my mind which of the two would be a better choice, overall, for an Ifrit.

Grand Lodge

3 points

Caster Level: There is an Ioun stone (costs around 30k iirc) that gives you a +1 to caster level. This means more dice of damage and better CL to beat SR. Side bonus, stick it in a wayfinder, it gives you CL of your sorcerer level AT WORST, CL of your sorcerer level +3 (+3!!!). You roll 1d4-2 and add the result to your CL. since being in the wayfinder does not turn of the standard power, you get either a +0 (1d4[1]-2+1) a +1 (1d4[2]-2+1) a +2 (1d4[3]-2+1) or a +3 (1d4[4]-2+1). Basically no downside, except the 30k investment.

Bloodline: Stay with Elemental. While Efreeti is very very similar, the key difference is the 9th level power. Giant form is not as good for you as a straight up burst of fire power. We would need a rather large refocus to take advantage of the Giant form ability (ie, lots more STR, possibly going crossblooded with a dragon and slip into DD. Ok, so it is possible, but as a blaster, I do not suggest it.)

Bonus thought: Have you thought about the Primal Wildblooded Sorcerer? More damage (though you do lose the turning shocking grasp into smoking hot grasp ability) and you get to set summons on fire (though no burst of fire).


Elemental (fire) is significantly better for blasting - +1 save DC and maybe a bonus spell slot will help. On the other hand Efreeti has much better bonus spells which will make utility better.


@Dafydd: Thanks for those three tips.

I'll keep my eye open for Ioun stones. Of course, one need the cash to splash on something very cool like that!

I was leaning to the Fire Elemental bloodline. But I was looking more at the charisma boost for class abilities. Don't know how often sorcerers, who are not front line material, would need the boost of strength anyway.

Actually, I had not looked at that Primal Bloodline. That does look cool! I guess you'd have to give up the +2 enhancement to charisma for class abilities for that bloodline. But still, it does look more 'blasty' than the regular fire elemental bloodline.

Thanks for all that!

Edit/Additional: I had another quick look at the primal version. Looks like I should be able to keep the enhancement to charisma from Fire Elemental. If so; COOL!


@avr: I had noticed that the Efreeti had a few better utility bloodline spells and abilities. But I agree the Fire Elemental is the more blasty of the two.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Any advice / critique on my Ifrit Sorcerer build All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.