Is fire an object? 'Cause you can shrink it with the shrink item spell. Could you target gases/air with the spell for similar reason?
I've very curious. Are you saying "Yes, you can, per RAW" or are you saying, "If and only if it is, then you can shrink it; if you can, you may be able to hit gasses/air"?
It could be interpreted that when you shrink fire, you're shrinking the size of the fire source, and the fire itself shrinks as a direct result. A small pile of wood makes smaller flames than a large pile of wood… You can make the wood invisible, but not the flames themselves, by my reading. I would not allow fog, gasses, or liquids to be considered 'objects' for the purpose of targeting in-game. Where would it end? Receiving AoO's from incoming rain drops? Down that path lies madness.
If the bead hits an object it explodes.
Certainly fog, mist, puddles etc are not solid objects and therefore cannot be targeted by Invisibility.
I'd agree that when shrinking a torch, the flame shrinks as a result; you can't shrink flames directly with Shrink Object.
Some very interesting ideas here though.
Invisibility on a door, Illusions behind invisible objects, etc.
As for the Magic Jar gem idea, it's great except that "the magic jar must be within spell range and you must know where it is " so unless you can see or sense the gem where it lands, making it invisible and then throwing it won't work.
Also, when you throw things you can be required to make an attack roll to see where it lands, which some DM's might interpret as the equivalent of an attack (though that does seem a bit harsh).
Is fire an object? 'Cause you can shrink it with the shrink item spell. Could you target gases/air with the spell for similar reason?I've very curious. Are you saying "Yes, you can, per RAW" or are you saying, "If and only if it is, then you can shrink it; if you can, you may be able to hit gasses/air"?
It's GM's call. What I was saying is that there is a clear precedent of being able to target immaterial "objects" with spell effects. Take from that precedent what you will.
Is fire an object? 'Cause you can shrink it with the shrink item spell.Are you saying "Yes, you can, per RAW" ?
Hey, you really can: "Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell." I never noticed that before.
However, it doesn't necessarily follow that you can shrink fog.
I'd say that the pile of fuel is the object, and if you shrink that, the fire goes with it automatically. Similarly, if you had a sealed bottle of fog, you could shrink it or turn it invisible, but that's not the same thing as being able to treat the weather itself as an object for the purpose of a spell.
Seems sensible, MD.
As for the Magic Jar gem idea, it's great except that "the magic jar must be within spell range and you must know where it is " so unless you can see or sense the gem where it lands, making it invisible and then throwing it won't work.
Also, when you throw things you can be required to make an attack roll to see where it lands, which some DM's might interpret as the equivalent of an attack (though that does seem a bit harsh).
But I would not throw it myself.
I'd cast magic jar first. Then have someone else throw the stone.
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I see, you magic jar into the gem, a party member throws it, Then, with the party out of range, you don't have to worry about accidentally possessing one of them as they would be farther away than the enemy.
As for the Magic Jar gem idea, it's great except that "the magic jar must be within spell range and you must know where it is " so unless you can see or sense the gem where it lands, making it invisible and then throwing it won't work.
Also, when you throw things you can be required to make an attack roll to see where it lands, which some DM's might interpret as the equivalent of an attack (though that does seem a bit harsh).
But I would not throw it myself.
I'd cast magic jar first. Then have someone else throw the stone.
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Want to troll your players?
Cast permanent invisibility on a door.
Cast Magic Aura on it to remove the Invisibility's aura.
Cast Phantasmal Terrain on the door to make it look like a normal part of the surrounding wall. Don't remove this aura.
Let them detect the magic on the Phantasmal Terrain. They'll think its a hidden doorway.
Put a few enemies on the other side of the door that have abilities that don't require uninterrupted line of effect. (anything with mind effecting abilities or gaze attacks works for this. I recommend Fey since this is exactly the kind of amusing BS they are known for. Grig spring to mind.)
The enemies will have successfully Saved against the Phantasmal Terrain spell long ago, so they will clearly see the PCs on the other side of the invisible door as they work out how to dispel/breach the "secret door"
Then sit back amused as the PCs beat themselves against an invisible wall trying to reach the suddenly-revealed enemies who are casting all kinds of obnoxious effects at them.
If the PCs try to run, the enemies can just open the door and follow them...
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Is fire an object? 'Cause you can shrink it with the shrink item spell. Could you target gases/air with the spell for similar reason?
Technically, I believe the campfire as a whole is considered an object.
My belief is that anything you can interact with as a whole, separately from something else, is considered an object. You can interact with a door separately from interacting with the wall. Therefore, the door is an object, as is the wall.
Can you normally interact with a brick in that wall using standard mechanics?
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Step 1: Create Dungeon with individual sections of walls arranged in a maze like pattern.
Step 2: Cast Invisibility and Permanency on said walls.
Step 3: Stat out a the Big Bad as a Human Ninja/ Preservationist Alchemist
Step 4: fill Dungeon with mooks with disguise self looking like the big bad.
Step 5: get a special custom item called a "gym badge"
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A dungeon with invisible walls?