Resurrection or perma-death?


Advice


So, lately in my RotRL campaign there have been quite a lot of character deaths and it's created a strange schism among my players. This schism has to do with the availability of resurrection magic at their current level. They are at a point where reincarnate and raise dead are easily cast for them so death has practically reached a point where it's more an annoyance than well, death.

Half of my group has come out in favor of our game utilizing perma-death in order to allow for greater role-playing opportunities, character development, and sense of danger, darkness, or grit. The other half of my group is against this because they have become so attached to their characters for all the story and character building they've put in that they would hate being forced to play as a different character, especially this far into the AP.

This has been a tough thing to reconcile for me, as GM. I understand both sides' concerns and empathize with both. Thus far I have told them that they can make the decision for themselves: if you want your characters res'd they can be. If you'd like perma-death for your own characters that's fine too. This, however, aggravates some already present continuity issues. Why do they res character A but not character B? Why hasn't Tiny res'd his best friend Cal who died at 2nd level?

More recently I have been giving thought to the idea of banning resurrection as anything but a plot device or Act of God but allowing Hero Points or some other system to mitigate deaths. This could make it so character death is more avoidable without sapping all of the weight out of character death when it does occur.

Thoughts? Ideas? If this has already been covered in another thread please link to it and I apologize for wasting your time.

Sczarni

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I think that rez should be a role playing experience and a rare one. If it takes the players off track to save a friend, build a small side scenario in the AP. I think for me as a player the realistic nature of hey your dead makes it more fun.

If player's get attached to there characters telling them that, should they die they cannot be rezed might make the group more cautious, strategize more.


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Personally, as a DM, I would never use "perma-death", for the reasons you pointed out. It becomes a rotating door of random adventurers rather than a cohesive story.

I agree that "choose your own" is the best approach for those who are insistent. If they think staying dead enhances their fun, they're welcome to do so.


In my homebrew only clerics of the god of the dead are allowed to raise/ resurrect the dead and the ones with that power are few and far between. I like that it makes my players more cautious with their beloved players instead of being all slash and kill and no fear. That's my personal preference for my games tho it may not be for everyone.


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Scythia wrote:


I agree that "choose your own" is the best approach for those who are insistent. If they think staying dead enhances their fun, they're welcome to do so.

Bingo!

I believe the Devs have said before that they would rather resurrection be free to encourage players to be more attached to their characters.

As much as people seem to hate comparing Pathfinder/DnD to video games, I look at it like an RPG where you only REALLY lose if the whole party dies.


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My thoughts:

Since this is an already started campaign, where players has invested a lot of time and energy under the impression that the default rules are in place, I strongly advice against enforcing permadeath.

The players that don't want to be rezzed all the time can simply opt for permadeath for their characters, while they'll have to accept that the other players will still raise each other when they need to since that's the default of the campaign you play.

Personally, I'm in the camp of preferring resurrection and raising to be rare and difficult, and in our games we've used hero points plus Alexandrian Hit Points.

Spoiler:
There should be an article on it on the Alexandrian, but I can't find it. Basically, you are disabled between -1 hp and -MaxHP, after that you're dead, but while dead you lose 1 hp/round and can still be targeted by healing spells. Raise Dead acts as cure critical plus it heals up to 2 hp/cl on dead characters up to -MaxHP (thus can resurrect if cast withing 2 rounds/level plus it's normal healing amount), resurrection is the same but 10 hp.
This means the point of death is much vaguer, and characters "go towards the light" so to speak and can be brought back if they're not too far gone, but someone who's been dead for an hour won't ever come back

But regardless of your or my personal opinion, I do think that such a huge change in gameplay, such an enormously important house rule to a game already in motion, should only be implemented if there is an unanimous consensus on it.


Id say make rezzing hard to perform or get, but still available. Clerics need their deities help to bring someone back from the dead and the deceased persons soul must be available (and willing - you cant resurrect an unwilling person..unless you want to torture him with undeath). A deity may get offended at some point and refuse or at the very least demand a special penance in return, the other persons deity may be at odds with the clerics', all kinds of things can go wrong to a point where it just becomes better to leave the deceased have their final rest at last and a heroic tale or two. Those issues are prone to being subjective at least and so for different characters it may be easier or next to impossible to come back. Have something place a curse on one of the less attached players that bars their soul from rest if the body that carries it dies before a certain goal is achieved. Everyone will have an additional incentive For that person to stay alive lest he becomes a monster theyll have to fight against.


But, if you're going to run a new campaign and want death to mean more, I would suggest the following rules:

1. Hero points, and quite an ample amount.
2. Alexandrian hit points. Gives more time for retreat, makes one extra hp loss rarely mean much, and prevents easy resurrection.
3. Story-based equipment sacrifice. If a character where to die, any player that has a character close by (including the one about to die) can sacrifice an item, describing how it's used to save the character's life. The object should have a value of at least 10% of the WBL of both the sacrificing character and the character to be saved. A sacrificed object is permanently lost and cannot be repaired.

The last rule is really great, and one we generally use in all our games regardless. Last time it was used, a character was nearly killed by a black dragon, but in the last moment threw up her shield. The shield was destroyed by the dragon's acid but the character survived.


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Solution is simple. It is not the character that decides to return from death but the character's player. The player's (not character's) choice determines the fate of the character. If the player decides for his character to not be resurrectable it means the soul was judged by Pharasma and beyond reach, even if for in-character decision should be "I must return and help my companions save the world" or something like that. Not everyone returns because currents of fate and queues of the dead work in inscrutable ways.


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TheCleanHippie wrote:


This has been a tough thing to reconcile for me, as GM. I understand both sides' concerns and empathize with both. Thus far I have told them that they can make the decision for themselves: if you want your characters res'd they can be. If you'd like perma-death for your own characters that's fine too. This, however, aggravates some already present continuity issues. Why do they res character A but not character B? Why hasn't Tiny res'd his best friend Cal who died at 2nd level?

This is actually covered in the rules.

The first bit is because you cannot resurrect an unwilling candidate. If their soul choses to stay dead, then the spell fails (what happens to the material component is unclear. I would give them a freebie on that so they can RP TRYING to ring back their buddy, but him choosing to stay in the afterlife).

The second because there is a time limit. Raise Dead has a limit of a day per level of the caster (so geerally, 20 days max). Reincarnate is a week. Only the high level and very expensive Resurrection and True Resurrection have time limits that make this feasible.

Silver Crusade

I give my PCs three rezzes explaining it this way- a soul can only take dieing and resurrection so much before being completely destroyed. If you go past 3 resurrections (or other words you're on your fifth 'life') the next time you die your soul is destroyed forever and everyone forgets you existed.


The revolving door to the afterlife is just a fun concept, and something that lets heros stand out from the common folk. I think, RP wise, though, you could have resurrected characters receive some sort of stigma from the unnatural status of their life in the mortal realm - and some gods may not like this act.

Also - Depending on your setting, a diamond of the value required is likely a pretty rare find - which makes reincarnation a fun alternative...


Thanks everyone for all of the suggestions. I'm currently presenting a number of options to the group telling them things will only change with a unanimous choice. I really appreciate all of the ideas. If anyone has any more I'd be glad to hear.


Resurrection is always a weird thing. It's one of those spells that can really destroy suspension of disbelief, and it always has been from way, way back before 3rd Edition was even a thought.

Animate Dead and its necromantic sister spells makes a bit of sense - you're twisting the nature of life and death, and creating undeath. The soul may be attached, but it's unnatural.

And while resurrection has been a facet of myth and legend for as long as humans have had them, D&D made it cheap for players.

Why is death a threat at all if the cost of resurrecting someone is surprisingly minimal? Why does anyone in the world wither and die if the spells Age Resistance and Resurrection exist?

Resurrection is one of those spells I just don't typically let players take. They're there to determine the prices of items, and that's basically it - gods can use Resurrection, Epic-level characters can use Resurrection, and items can resurrect, though they're typically one-and-done.

And if the players abuse resurrection, there's always Inevitables. Lots and lots of Inevitables.


I like the idea of simply letting players decide one way or the other but (and maybe I'm a sadist) I really enjoy the realism involved when a character dies against his player's wishes. Sure, you can argue that these games are for a player's pure enjoyment but some of my favorite stories in-game came from character loss and tragedy that I wholeheartedly tried to prevent but just couldn't quite manage to stop.

Then again, I shouldn't be (and am not) GMing just for my own enjoyment. I have the enjoyment of the group to consider as well.

Sovereign Court

Maybe it's just me - but it seems odd that there have been enough character deaths that this has become a frequent issue. In my expierience they just don't happen much.

In all of the time I've DMd it only happened once. Amusingly - it was sort of my chracter since my buddy and I were co-DMing a campaign and sharing a character with multiplicity personality disorder back and forth in different sessions.

In PFS I've seen it happen a few times. (Two in one session - but we were playing up - and they were low level cleric/oracle in The Godsmarket Gamble. If you've played it you'll know why. The only other time I can think of was a level 1 rogue pre-gren.)

Maybe it's just because I haven't played Rise of the Runelords - I've heard it's rough - but that seems odd.


Two points:

1) I recently died, and would prefer to stay that way because I like the threat of death. However, I'm the party's cleric and am supporting 4 to 6 other players (depending on who shows up). Everyone else basically freaked out when I died (I joined this game part way through, and they were clericless...), so I'm letting them resurrect me. The only thing that makes it worth it to me is that my character strongly believes in elven superiority, and our druid is reincarnating me. It will be fun to roleplay him if he isn't reincarnated as an elf (happening this friday).

2) One recommendation I would have for you is enforcing material components. In order to cast resurrection you have to have a diamond worth 5000gp. Does your cleric have one on hand? Will you be able to find one in the nearest village with population: 53? This way, resurrection is available, but inconvenient, and the journey to find the components could be a fun, intense adventure itself. I think that DMs may hand-wave costly components (or the procurement of such) a little too often.


Go by Dragonball Z rules, you can get wished back once, then after you'll need an alternate source of resurrection.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Maybe it's just me - but it seems odd that there have been enough character deaths that this has become a frequent issue. In my expierience they just don't happen much.

Depends a lot on how rough you play and how good tactics the GM uses and on how glass cannony the characters are. And also how much people care not to get killed.

When dying just means losing a round or two, it can be better (from a tactical viewpoint) to die than to be, say, dazed, as that's harder to remove (though less costly gp-wise).
In some groups, dying is seen as a big deal even if it isn't mechanically, so parties will rather retreat than face characters dying. In other groups, it's all about succeeding at the quest and if a few characters die a few times for that it's no big deal.

Sovereign Court

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Gaberlunzie wrote:
In some groups, dying is seen as a big deal even if it isn't mechanically, so parties will rather retreat than face characters dying. In other groups, it's all about succeeding at the quest and if a few characters die a few times for that it's no big deal.

Yeah - I've always played in groups of the former. Besides - I tend to avoid high level campaigns anyway where resurrection is relatively cheap, as the whole system starts to crawl and break down at high levels anyway.


Found an interesting write-up on this topic:

Death is Cheap: Resurrection


Gaberlunzie wrote:

But, if you're going to run a new campaign and want death to mean more, I would suggest the following rules:

1. Hero points, and quite an ample amount.
2. Alexandrian hit points. Gives more time for retreat, makes one extra hp loss rarely mean much, and prevents easy resurrection.
3. Story-based equipment sacrifice. If a character where to die, any player that has a character close by (including the one about to die) can sacrifice an item, describing how it's used to save the character's life. The object should have a value of at least 10% of the WBL of both the sacrificing character and the character to be saved. A sacrificed object is permanently lost and cannot be repaired.

Call me oldschool, but I usually start prepping my players for my games by telling them "Death is permanent, and I will pull very few punches. My game will be fair and the enemy will always abide by the same rules you do mechanically, but if you die you are dead."

That said, I don't WANT, necessarily, to go out of my way to murder my players. While I won't fudge rolls (crit happens), I WILL find story-element based means of keeping the party from getting killed (unless they darned well earned their own death).

For instance, let's say the party is fighting some orcs and things go south. Everyone gets KO'd. Those that don't bleed out before combat ends wake up in a prison. Gasp! The party has been locked up in an orcish gladiatorial arena where they will be forced to fight opponents to the death... and, perhaps, each other eventually. This spurs a LOT of cool plot moments and could last 1-2 sessions, and it's a great change of place.

Other ideas? Party gets knocked out by bandits; they're stripped of all their valuables. Now they have to get them back. Party gets beaten by kobolds? I guess it's time to play "Sacrifice the Paladin to the dragon!" Oh, the BBEG actually BEAT the players? If he's pragmatic he'd just off them immediately, but if he's the OTHER kind he may try to put them in the super-unnecessarily-complex-death-machine-of-slowness +2.

Honestly, supervillains like that are just great.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:
In some groups, dying is seen as a big deal even if it isn't mechanically, so parties will rather retreat than face characters dying. In other groups, it's all about succeeding at the quest and if a few characters die a few times for that it's no big deal.
Yeah - I've always played in groups of the former. Besides - I tend to avoid high level campaigns anyway where resurrection is relatively cheap, as the whole system starts to crawl and break down at high levels anyway.

I hear you mate. I share the same preferences. Though, depending on how one feels about characters, Reincarnate is pretty cheap from when you get it.


Resurrection and Reincarnation are both very difficult to come by in my setting, and cost more than an expensive diamond or whatever. It usually involves a favor in the form of a quest by the surviving party members. Plus, any PC class higher than 5th level, unless specifically designed as an adversary of the PCs (who can progress as high as possible) is an extreme rarity.

Sovereign Court

Resurrection is fine. Usually my players will choose if they want to be resurrected or not, so it's never been a big issue.


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I don't understand why people scorn resurrection, but are completely fine with another adventurer of the exact same level and WBL (and probably class, or at least role) of the character who died popping up and being welcomed freely into the party a day later.


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It has already been mentioned upthread but I wanted to link to the Alexandrian article on Death & Dying optional rules here.


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As to trying to resurrect a the target declining: That's what speak with dead is for. Rather than giving the party a freebie for the rez mats I'd give them a free speak with dead as part of the rez deal.

Cleric: You want to have your friend brought back. Before we try that I will make sure that he is ok with that. We don't want to bother the goddess with a resurrection attempt before we know it will be accepted, right?
*cast's the spell*
Yes, it seems he does want to come back. Once you made the proper donation to the temple we will proceed with the ritual.


Castilonium wrote:
I don't understand why people scorn resurrection, but are completely fine with another adventurer of the exact same level and WBL (and probably class, or at least role) of the character who died popping up and being welcomed freely into the party a day later.

Perhaps the pc just doesn't want to leave the afterlife yet another time?

I had a pc die in an AP at level 3. The cost of bringing him back nearly ruined the party. It consumed the complete book 1 end-boss loot and then some. The party never really recovered from that blow. Financially, that is. At level 6 he died again and (both the pc and the player) decided that they are better off without him.


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Again, this just shows the great advantage of reincarnation. Cheaper, Lower Level, and often coming back as a wildly different race makes for a plot hook as well.


Given the spell is written to require consent in the form of having a spirit willing to return, that should be the defacto decision maker. That said, if you're having a revolving door of PCs, perhaps your group attracts a hag on the astral plane who constantly tracks the group and starts trapping souls as members die. Then, if a character does want to come back but can't, the group can investigate why. You can introduce and explain various elements about the economy of the outer planes via the soul trade and whatnot. Let the group derive their own set of values. Maybe they don't want to actively feed into such a vile economy. Perhaps, if they continue and you want it to stop, say the hag has recruited some "hired help" to keep culling members of the group for even more souls. That's a tad heavy handed. But, there IS a whole dynamic to work with that can spawn plane-hopping adventure goodness.


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Just a Guess wrote:

Perhaps the pc just doesn't want to leave the afterlife yet another time?

I had a pc die in an AP at level 3. The cost of bringing him back nearly ruined the party. It consumed the complete book 1 end-boss loot and then some. The party never really recovered from that blow. Financially, that is. At level 6 he died again and (both the pc and the player) decided that they are better off without him.

From a gameplay standpoint, it makes perfect sense to simply forgo resurrection and create another character that is exactly the same as the previous character in every way except name. You save money that way.

But what I don't understand is when people claim that resurrection cheapens death or destroys suspension of disbelief, as if the alternative, replacing the dead character with an identical one, doesn't.


Castilonium wrote:

From a gameplay standpoint, it makes perfect sense to simply forgo resurrection and create another character that is exactly the same as the previous character in every way except name. You save money that way.

But what I don't understand is when people claim that resurrection cheapens death or destroys suspension of disbelief, as if the alternative, replacing the dead character with an identical one, doesn't.

I don't think many GMs want to really expand the scope of their adventures. You can't blame them. However, there is a trove of lore and interactions that can be done around resurrections. If that were explored more frequently, I think it'd be viewed as a pretty intense thing because it easily can be as my post hinted at.


Castilonium wrote:


From a gameplay standpoint, it makes perfect sense to simply forgo resurrection and create another character that is exactly the same as the previous character in every way except name. You save money that way.

That depends on how the group handles wealth and what happens to a dead characters' belongings. That's not in the rules, so it's up to each group. In some groups it might be beneficient, in some it won't.

Castilonium wrote:
But what I don't understand is when people claim that resurrection cheapens death or destroys suspension of disbelief, as if the alternative, replacing the dead character with an identical one, doesn't.

Perhaps people don't replace the dead character with an identical one? Perhaps they create some other character? You're presenting a false dichotomy.

The thing is, when resurrection is readily available, that can feel both cheapening to characters that have died, and characters who haven't - because there's no reason for the characters to fear death in general. To a lot of people that creates a large emotional dissonance with the character, as fear of death is one of the most central and ingrained experiences in our world. To other people, having no fear of death is part of the prerequisites for playing an enjoyably heroic character, and others are in between.

You seem to argue from one very specific viewpoint - that of the characters themselves being easily replacable tools. That's not an incorrect way to play at all, but it's not the only one. Many groups have other playstyles or agreements that make your style not viable at their table.


I ran a campaign where a soul could only be rezzed con mod times...

It worked for us...


I think the raise dead and variant spells should be based on the HD of the target being targeted.

Animate dead does this, so I'm surprised that suddenly, all souls have equal worth for Raise Dead. I've found myself advising my players on this:

Our Gm just said pick any 6000 item. I advise we each take a scroll of Raise Dead. Good job; we've gained 5 scrolls of raise dead.

That kind of backup is kinda ridiculous.

So, the price for Raise dead should be something initially astonishing, so that regular people still can't get a rez like checking up at the doctor, but then increasing rapidly to match the pace of WBL. I imagine being raised should take a heavy chunk out of your PCs wealth.

Furthermore, have Raise dead have a Cap on the HD it can affect, so that you MUST move on to Resurrection and later True Resurrection. These spells can then reestablish the base cost of the material component, and it's rate of increase, to better match the raising WBL.


Castilonium wrote:
I don't understand why people scorn resurrection, but are completely fine with another adventurer of the exact same level and WBL (and probably class, or at least role) of the character who died popping up and being welcomed freely into the party a day later.

My party members are pretty good for this, immediately scrutinizing any new character trying to enter their group.

However, 9 times out of 10 they (the party) play highly suspicious, (and perhaps overly worldly for their talents) characters, who subject the new guy to a battery of interrogations and tests before even considering letting him tag along, and even THEN sleeping near him, and THEN allowing their choices to weigh in, and THEN before allowing themselves to trust, or sacrifice for him, and THEN....etc to infinity.

I find it irritating to both watch, and be subject to, though as a roleplayer, I tend to sweet talk them faster then others. I get held in this Character Transition Detention for maybe 20 minutes, but I've seen my other players get held in it for sessions, back to back.


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Some players aren't shy about making the perma-death solution for their PCs but also want to make it for other players. Their reasons range from schadenfreude through suspension of disbelief to wanting the game to more closely emulate some popular fantasy works like Game of Thrones.

One step towards middle ground which might help is to use Hero Points. With Hero Points players who like to play in an exciting style and dare Death to take them are free to spend their Hero Points willy nilly on acts of derring do or even outright silliness while players who dislike the idea of a forced change of PCs can cautiously hoard their points for a rainy day.

I've only ever had one PC of mine die while using Hero Points, and honestly he was a PC I wasn't all that sad to see go since he had terrible rolled ability scores, used a gimped build, and didn't fit into the campaign well mechanically. I've seen literally dozens of other PC deaths with the Hero Point system in place though. Often you can sense a PC's impending doom closing in as the Hero Points dwindle down.

Honestly most of the games I play in allow resurrection anyhow, but using HP helps prevent the question from coming up as much and gives the wild and crazy guys a little reward for their face-first style of adventuring.

@Gaberlunzie - In about half our games a dead PC's equipment mysteriously disappears/explodes - this is due to the fact we had a player a while back who was really into committing PC suicide so he could use his newest ultimate cheese build, have the highest stat in the party, etc. I've never run it this way, but some DMs got tired of the party getting a WBL bump from frequent deaths.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

As a GM, I've never been a fan of the Pathfinder Raise Dead/Resurrection rules, primarily for the reasons outlined by TheCleanHippie above. Sure there is the 2 negative levels thing, but you can get those back quickly if you have enough gold, or a cleric of the appropriate level (like we have in our Shattered Star AP).

With that being the case we've implemented a few of the old D&D rules. Firstly, when a character dies and is raised/resurrected, the player must roll the old 'Resurrection' survival check (we have a second edition book with the chart in it). If the player fails, the character is dead forever. If the player is successful, the character returns to life, however the trauma causes a permanent loss of 1 constitution point.

During one of our games a Cleric died and had a 95% chance of being successfully raised. For the sake of drama, the player rolled one d10 first and it came up as a zero. Everyone was on their feet when the next die flew into the air, and the screams of disbelief and howls of laughter when it landed on, you guessed it, zero, are something that none of us will ever forget.

Harsh? Maybe, but it's a rule that we all like.


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Devilkiller wrote:
@Gaberlunzie - In about half our games a dead PC's equipment mysteriously disappears/explodes - this is due to the fact we had a player a while back who was really into committing PC suicide so he could use his newest ultimate cheese build, have the highest stat in the party, etc. I've never run it this way, but some DMs got tired of the party getting a WBL bump from frequent deaths.

We have a gentlemen's agreement on not abusing it, and generally each character has a stated "testimony" of where they want their stuff to end up that is outside of the group. Some want to be buried with it, some want it to go to their next of kin (that isn't a PC), some want it to go their church or sell it to fund an orphanage or whatever.

Though, we tend to not obsess over our gear and belongings; whether I'm a PC or GM, the group tends to get a lot more gp value than WBL, but many of the things have weird abilities and our stuff isn't guaranteed not to get stolen/removed/destroyed etc from us.

We also usually run with the houserule that once every five levels, we can denote one piece of gear that is off-limits to the GM; last time I played (we've been kinda stale lately) I played a ranger and my bow and my magic staff was off-limits.


Ressurection is a more complex issue. First of all, if a character died, it's either accidental (bad rolls/decisions) or deliberate (out of control character).

I don't mind ressurections for accidental deaths. Bringing people back from the dead is a pretty impressive miracle to begin with, and not cheap from whatever service performs it. Making it too easy for some players to weasel their way around Death by Edict, in the case for characters just earned a huge VETO stamp for being irrevocably destructive, is not something I advocate in the slightest.

One of the most simple things i follow is this: Divine powers at be will not raise from the dead someone who is or has recently committed acts in violation of the Dieties' alignment or interests.

If the person had rolled Chaotic A**hole, and die after murdering people, resisting the law, and dying as a result, they are not likely to get a Resurrection from any good or lawful divine power. If the act was particularly evil, it may even only be possible by a divine caster of an evil power.

The most important thing to remember is that Divine Powers are 'granted', and not 'taken for granted' like arcane casting. There's some base level of approval required by the divine powers in question, and they get (via GM) final veto power over who gets to come back.

This is different from dying as a course of normal gameplay, where I will happily permit revival of characters if the player so desires.


@Prux - Killer DM would probably really like your old school d100 resurrection survival method. I also saw him let a PC or two come back from the dead by making a "Deal with the Devil" though. Generally he'd propose something like rolling 1d4 to see how many points you lose off an ability score and 1d6 to see which score you lose it from. Your Barbarian could lose 1 Charisma or 4 Strength, and however that went you were stuck with it. This wasn't a set formula. He'd just come up with something which amused him and discomfited the player in question. I was always very careful not to die in his game though staying alive was quite a challenge.


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Permanent death, but make death more difficult to suffer. Death loses all its gravitas and emotion when it's a revolving door, or when it happens constantly. The death of a protagonist should be an EVENT, a chance for deep roleplaying and character growth, not just 'Well, Bob lost another one'.


As a player I'd like to have the option. I suffer from more character concepts than campaigns to play them, so 'having' to play a new character is no great hardship. I would prefer that death is not final, but that it is not insignificant either - the death constitutes a major event.

Our GM is pretty good at scattering the appropriate scrolls or other deux ex machine without it being too jarring.

Rise of the Runelords is fairly brutal in places, and we've had three PC deaths so far, two being my character. My first PC death I was happy to let stand as it was suitably heroic and totally in the manner to which she would have been happy. The second I didn't feel was a great death and played a 'stand-in' mercenary until a Raise Dead was arranged. The other PC death was a straight Raise Dead as the player liked her character too much to let it go.


It's easy to limit the availability of Ressurection. Just look at the component: a 10,000 gp Diamond. Flip through the treasure tables and see if you can find the odds of actually having a 10k Diamond appear in a horde (by the treasure generation rules presented I don't even think it's possible). A 10k diamond isn't something the characters can just buy whenever they need one. Having 10k gold on hand doesn't solve the issue.

As for Raise Dead that's another matter, but it has never bothered me before. If a player doesn't want to be raised from the dead I think it's ok in that instance that the spell fails because the soul isn't willing to return.

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