Crafter Settlements are failing - updated stats 20150218


Pathfinder Online

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

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I thought it would be good to get some stats before EE4.0 goes in. People who know these threads already will be familiar with the format - the name of the settlement followed by the number of pledged characters. I also added a week ago the relative % compared to the numbers at the landrush.
Also back is the number of towers as I felt this is a good time to make a snapshot.
So what about the click baiting title? Some people might notice that there is a different order. I tend to order by size - but this time around I first order all crafter settlements by size and then all other settlements. The reason is I noticed a clear trend for crafter settlements to underperform compared to all other kind of settlements.
So what do we see?
The best %-age off all crafter settlements is 68% for Callambea. In comparison there are 8 non crafter settlements which score >100%
Keepers Pass is in the Everbloom alliance - the two other large settlements there don't suffer that problem and seem to grow well.
In addition all three main crafter settlements LOST members week over week. The loss are an insignificant 1 or 2 members less for Keepers, Callambea and Talonguard - but this is compared to an averall growth from 1199 to 1169 members in settlements.
This is even more surprising if you read these boards. PvPer should struggle - if you read the posts then they are nearly unplayable. Crafters should strive - this is THEIR time to shine - gathering and crafting forms is what is important right now and what even some PvPers are forced to do.
No - I don't have an explanation. Individual leadership might play a big role - but I can't believe none of the crafter settlements can buck the trend.
So why do we have more problems attracting people to these settlements?

Keeper's Pass 51 57% 17
Callambea 49 68% 9
Talonguard 26 23% 14
Hammerfall 16 46% 10
Alderwag 15 14
Blackfeather Keep 9 56% 8
Kreuz Bernstein 2 6% 8
New Daggermark 0
Guardheim 0
Brighthaven 237 117% 21
Golgotha 159 142% 24
Phaeros 130 159% 13
Stoneroot Glade 94 103% 21
Ozem's Vigil 84 97% 14
Aragon 82 137% 18
Emerald Lodge 65 123% 13
Forgeholm 48 96% 11
Auroral 41 241% 12
Tavernhold 37 74% 12
Canis Castrum 31 258% 16
Sunholm 21 64% 15
Blackwood Glade 16 42% 8
Deadman's Glen 13 163% 6
River Bank 11 50% 12
Freevale 11 55% 6
Dagedai 8 16% 0
Hope's End 7 41% 16
Blackwatch 2 0
Terra Firma 1 0
Iron Gauntlet 1 0
Hammerforge 1 0
Doomhammer 1 0
Highroad

Goblin Squad Member

I, like many others, would love to be able to have a way to contact all those that signed up on the Landrush board itself. Some of those names likely never signed up on our own website so I have no idea if they just voted to vote or if they planned to join us in the first place.

I know many of our number have been hit with Real Life and have not been able to get in the game yet - likely a possibility with other groups as well.

Goblin Squad Member

I suspect what we're seeing is not crafting settlements "dying" but rather crafters transferring official citizenship to combat template towns so that they can get the training they need, while maintaining de-facto residence in their crafting centers.

Goblin Squad Member

I know some people are leaving because their settlements aren't giving them enough support.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm not sure why crafter settlements are expected to thrive at this time, compared to other settlements? All settlements have some crafting capabilities; crafting settlements have the advantage of all crafting stations *plus* an auction house.

Just speaking as a EBA member, I have spent more time in KP than in any other settlement during the last 6 weeks. I don't need to belong to Keeper's Pass to use their crafting stations or auction house.

I think the crafting settlements' likely recruits are looking for a crafting and trading game, which will need to wait for the improvements to the markets.

Goblin Squad Member

I think a huge factor that this snapshot ignores is where people hang out, regardless of their settlement affiliation. I spend much of my time in a crafting town and it seems frequently well populated.

Paizo Employee CEO

Yrme wrote:

I'm not sure why crafter settlements are expected to thrive at this time, compared to other settlements? All settlements have some crafting capabilities; crafting settlements have the advantage of all crafting stations *plus* an auction house.

Just speaking as a EBA member, I have spent more time in KP than in any other settlement during the last 6 weeks. I don't need to belong to Keeper's Pass to use their crafting stations or auction house.

I think this is a big part of it. You don't have to belong to a crafting settlement to use their resources right now. Keeper's Pass is absolutely overflowing with activity right now, but it isn't all from their citizens. Members of EBA are spending all their time there gathering, crafting, and foraying into the field.

I don't think pure numbers of members is going to be a good indication of the health of a crafting town. I think the other non-crafting settlements around it are going to use it as a base for their trade, help those settlements with defense, and basically ally with them for mutual benefit.

-Lisa

Goblin Squad Member

I don't think there's been a time where I haven't seen anyone in Keeper's Pass. I see citizens from all the neighboring towns as well as our own citizens and we chat with each other, trade, party up and head out and so forth regardless of who is from where.


Except you didn't include the crafting settlement with the largest growth...*cough* Canis Castrum *cough*

Goblin Squad Member

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Alderwag should be showing an increase in membership as well.

Goblin Squad Member

Thod - 2/11/2015 wrote:
Canis Castrum is even better with some 258% - the best overall compared to the landrush.

I fixed that for you, Thod. ;)

Dark Archive Goblin Squad Member

You want to know one major problem, that there is almost no way in game of being able to contact people.

I log on in Hammerfall and am alone, I try whispers to those contacts I have, no answer.
If I want to try contacting other settlements, I have, more often than not, have to get on voice coms. This means running up to three different kinds of clients; TS, Vent or Mumble.
Otherwise I have to go to various company/settlement web site and sign on, leave a PM or post, hoping that someone will read them and get back to me.
At a last resort I have to travel to other settlements hoping that there will be someone within chat range to help me out.

I will not use the Help chat for this, because that is not what it is for and, also, not everyone reads it.

I would love to have a friends list or a chat channel to be able to contact other players.

At the moment most of the communications are using resources outside the game and it can be very awkward.

I am stuck on both of my characters at the moment because I require resources to advance and I need to contact others to get them but am stuck at this point.

I am not going to leave Hammerfall to go to another settlement because it needs to survive, but unless I devote a large amount of time that I do not have it is going nowhere.

If I was able to create a friends list, so that I knew who was online and then whisper them, it would make my life so much easier.

Goblin Squad Member

Crafting settlements are currently a great place to bank because they have all crafting facilities, and good places to visit because they have an auction house, but then again, starter towns have all that and class training as well. And auction houses are still quite difficult to use for purchases and therefore unreliable to use for sales, so the AH isn't that much of a selling point yet. These are things that will change in the future, though.


Swiss Mercenary wrote:

You want to know one major problem, that there is almost no way in game of being able to contact people.

I log on in Hammerfall and am alone, I try whispers to those contacts I have, no answer.
If I want to try contacting other settlements, I have, more often than not, have to get on voice coms. This means running up to three different kinds of clients; TS, Vent or Mumble.
Otherwise I have to go to various company/settlement web site and sign on, leave a PM or post, hoping that someone will read them and get back to me.
At a last resort I have to travel to other settlements hoping that there will be someone within chat range to help me out.

I will not use the Help chat for this, because that is not what it is for and, also, not everyone reads it.

I would love to have a friends list or a chat channel to be able to contact other players.

At the moment most of the communications are using resources outside the game and it can be very awkward.

I am stuck on both of my characters at the moment because I require resources to advance and I need to contact others to get them but am stuck at this point.

I am not going to leave Hammerfall to go to another settlement because it needs to survive, but unless I devote a large amount of time that I do not have it is going nowhere.

If I was able to create a friends list, so that I knew who was online and then whisper them, it would make my life so much easier.

Pretty much ditto, communication is such a hassle that I am pretty much role-playing a quest giver standing outside our bank. If I'm logged in I am outside the bank or running around town queuing up crafting jobs. I leave once or maybe twice a week to do a trade run then go back to hanging out in my usual spot. It's working, but it's far from ideal.

That said Swiss, if you need anything crafting related contact me in-game (Thannon Forsworn), here via PM, or our site. There is a high probability I can probably get it for you, especially if it's Tier 1.

(The irony of complaining about contact methods and then listing a whole slew of them is not lost on me.)

Capitalocracy wrote:
Crafting settlements are currently a great place to bank because they have all crafting facilities, and good places to visit because they have an auction house, but then again, starter towns have all that and class training as well. And auction houses are still quite difficult to use for purchases and therefore unreliable to use for sales, so the AH isn't that much of a selling point yet. These are things that will change in the future, though.

I'm hoping the 7 day auctions will somewhat change that tomorrow, but NPC towns having auctions is problematic in my opinion. Starting with tomorrows changes we will be stocking ours as much as we can for at least Tier 1 items and materials. I'll make a more formal announcement later.

Goblin Squad Member

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Lisa Stevens wrote:
Members of EBA are spending all their time there gathering, crafting, and foraying into the field.

And don't forget, killing Golgothan murderers who skulk around the surrounding hexes :)

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

G&S Thannon Forsworn wrote:
Except you didn't include the crafting settlement with the largest growth...*cough* Canis Castrum *cough*

:((((((((((((((((((

Ooops

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

FMS Quietus wrote:
Alderwag should be showing an increase in membership as well.

Who was Alderwag during the landrush and how many votes did they have? I couldn't identify them when I did my original spreadsheet.

Goblin Squad Member

Swiss Mercenary wrote:

You want to know one major problem, that there is almost no way in game of being able to contact people.

I log on in Hammerfall and am alone, I try whispers to those contacts I have, no answer.
If I want to try contacting other settlements, I have, more often than not, have to get on voice coms. This means running up to three different kinds of clients; TS, Vent or Mumble.
Otherwise I have to go to various company/settlement web site and sign on, leave a PM or post, hoping that someone will read them and get back to me.
At a last resort I have to travel to other settlements hoping that there will be someone within chat range to help me out.

I will not use the Help chat for this, because that is not what it is for and, also, not everyone reads it.

I would love to have a friends list or a chat channel to be able to contact other players.

At the moment most of the communications are using resources outside the game and it can be very awkward.

I am stuck on both of my characters at the moment because I require resources to advance and I need to contact others to get them but am stuck at this point.

I am not going to leave Hammerfall to go to another settlement because it needs to survive, but unless I devote a large amount of time that I do not have it is going nowhere.

If I was able to create a friends list, so that I knew who was online and then whisper them, it would make my life so much easier.

I also agree the lack of in game communication is making things difficult.

If there is anything you need, you can also let Erian El'ranelen or myself know and we at Keeper's Pass can see what we can do. Thannon of Canis Castrum is also a great resource and we have had good transactions with them as well.

Goblin Squad Member

Thod wrote:
Who was Alderwag during the landrush and how many votes did they have? I couldn't identify them when I did my original spreadsheet.

The Gauntlet.

The Landrush spreadsheet is still available.

Goblin Squad Member

Swiss Mercenary wrote:
You want to know one major problem, that there is almost no way in game of being able to contact people.

+1 to all the above, please post this on the Goblinworks forum if you haven't done so already; better chance the devs will read it.

Lack of in game settlement communication and banking is a serious setback for recruiting and keeping players. :(

Goblin Squad Member

Giorgo wrote:
Swiss Mercenary wrote:
You want to know one major problem, that there is almost no way in game of being able to contact people.

+1 to all the above, please post this on the Goblinworks forum if you haven't done so already; better chance the devs will read it.

Lack of in game settlement communication and banking is a serious setback for recruiting and keeping players. :(

They know about it - Company Chat (with Settlement Chat to follow) was on the short term roadmaps that Ryan posted.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Giorgo wrote:
Swiss Mercenary wrote:
You want to know one major problem, that there is almost no way in game of being able to contact people.

+1 to all the above, please post this on the Goblinworks forum if you haven't done so already; better chance the devs will read it.

Lack of in game settlement communication and banking is a serious setback for recruiting and keeping players. :(

+2. Yes, there are Mumble and TeamSpeak servers aplenty, plus one of The Groundlings has set up a Ventrilo server, plus my brother can't stand rhe other programs and wants to use Skype...! I'd just like to check a friends list to see who's on without having to flip through half a dozen chat servers.

And a Settlement chat channel (not Local or Hex - an Emerald Lidge (in my case) channel I can talk in wherever on the map I am - would be fantastic.

Dark Archive Goblin Squad Member

G&S Thannon Forsworn wrote:
(The irony of complaining about contact methods and then listing a whole slew of them is not lost on me.)

I know, these are all methods I had to find for myself.

Again, by grumbling I have made some contacts, but again I have to go outside the game.

Deianira wrote:
I'd just like to check a friends list to see who's on without having to flip through half a dozen chat servers.

I do have contacts with KOTC, just signed up to the forums, as with T7V, TEO and EL, but again outside game when I would really like to do it in game.

I will see what I can do, but at the moment I am rather swamped with real life and a nasty cold.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Actually the BEST growth is to a new company Dreamless ... with a growth of I reckon would be considered infinity %

from 0 to 24

i love stats, can make the numbers look like you want *sheepish grin*

Goblin Squad Member

I think that is actually [SEGMENTATION FAULT]%.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Lisa Stevens wrote:
Yrme wrote:

I'm not sure why crafter settlements are expected to thrive at this time, compared to other settlements? All settlements have some crafting capabilities; crafting settlements have the advantage of all crafting stations *plus* an auction house.

Just speaking as a EBA member, I have spent more time in KP than in any other settlement during the last 6 weeks. I don't need to belong to Keeper's Pass to use their crafting stations or auction house.

I think this is a big part of it. You don't have to belong to a crafting settlement to use their resources right now. Keeper's Pass is absolutely overflowing with activity right now, but it isn't all from their citizens. Members of EBA are spending all their time there gathering, crafting, and foraying into the field.

I don't think pure numbers of members is going to be a good indication of the health of a crafting town. I think the other non-crafting settlements around it are going to use it as a base for their trade, help those settlements with defense, and basically ally with them for mutual benefit.

-Lisa

Indeed. If Keeper's Pass needed resources and labor to improve at being a crafting settlement, they would have it despite not having many direct citizens.

Goblin Squad Member

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For all members of the EBA, this communication difficulty is exactly why we're looking to centralize some things to an EBA Trade Council. If you are a member and you are experiencing difficulty in refining, crafting, or trade, certainly speak up to your leadership and encourage them to raise it as an EBA-wide consideration. If you aren't sure who to contact, feel free to come to me directly and I can route as appropriate.

However, I echo the concerns for in-game communication and look forward to that functionality. Company and Settlement level trade and storage functionality is certainly high on my list as well. Asynchronous transactions are exceedingly difficult at present, especially when crossing time zones.

As for the state of Keeper's Pass, I of course wouldn't turn down new members to any of our settlement Companies, but as others have said the vitality of the settlement is not directly reflected in the Company counts.

Goblin Squad Member

Is EE4 scheduled for Thursday 2/19/15 after daily downtime?


I commute from my "home" settlement to the nearby crafting settlement whenever I need to craft. That definitely seems to be the way to do things at this time.

Company chat and settlement chat will definitely improve quality of life when they get implemented. A friend list, with maybe a subset for customers and frenemies, would be great too.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

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Okay - a more serious post again. Why did I use the headline?

Crafter towns are not failing in regard to presence of people there. The opposite - and everyone seems t o agree on that.
But this seems not to translate into membership. The crafter towns represented some 26% of all votes - above average (this excludes Alderwag and Canis Castrum).
Now they represent just 13% (not yet corrected for Canis Castrum). So the relative percentage of players in crafter settlements to everything else did go down.
This despite crafter tons full of people. This despite it being easier to train fighting elsewhere as to have constantly moving around with resources. I know - I'm doing the run to Hammerfall on average 2-3 times a day.

I haven't seen any explanation for that presented here. So what will happen to these settlements post cataclysm when others can cherry pick what they need from the crafter town and when these players no longer need to move back and forward.

As I said - the title as click bait - but there is a serious message hidden in the numbers. Somehow the crafter settlements seem to e only 50% as efficient to turn over voters for them into playing customers or to attract new ones.

Goblin Squad Member

Even in the real world, by their nature, trade hubs don't need as many people. They serve a valuable service for their surrounding communities and so can count on support in many cases. Eventually, the successful ones attract people who put down roots. At the moment, I can have my people (on paper) in Stoneroot Glade, yet spend most of their time in Alderwag. Once Alderwag has the ability to charge a different rate for facility and training access for members and visitors, that may change.

Goblin Squad Member

Well, I can say at least for Keeper's Pass that our approach is this--we're not looking to be the biggest. We want settlement members that actually align with our overall goals. We're very much about quality of quantity in that regard. As Cougar noted, for whatever reason we've got near 50% of our LR pledge folks that just haven't shown up. We don't know why, or how to contact them unfortunately, but we have some suspicion that lots of them are waiting for the game to mature, and possibly for the WoT to end, before coming back around. If we figure out a magic bullet to fix that, we'll certainly share (we also have a strong belief that the game needs numerous, diverse settlements, and so happily support that growth).

We also have every intention of working well with our alliance partners, filling in certain areas so they can in turn focus on specific strengths. I believe this is a critical factor for any of the smaller settlements, not just Crafting. I know some want to remain independent, but barring some niche positions (like EL) that is going to be a very hard road.

Goblin Squad Member

Giorgo wrote:
Is EE4 scheduled for Thursday 2/19/15 after daily downtime?
We are going to delay the release of Early Enrollment v4.0 by one day from Thursday to Friday this week to allow some extra time for debugging.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Consider this...

How many players does a crafting settlement need?

How many players does a regular settlement need?

At first glance you may say that regular settlements need a lot less but in fact they require more.

Crafting settlements have 4 gathering, 7 refining, and 10 crafting feats. Assuming most crafters will take 1 of each or split 2 over their DT accounts. Thats about 10-12 members needed to cover Tier 2 crafting.

However, regular settlements are looking to gear their members as quickly as possible. Rather than rely on their neighboring crafting settlements they are doing it all in-house with extra accounts or DTs. They are also pushing to be the first to T2, or T3 a lot more aggressively than crafting settlements meaning they want single progression only characters. That means 17-21 characters all with DTs or second accounts.

DT Crafters are a serious problem for crafting settlements IMHO.

I'm sure this is not how GW envisioned the game to be but right now that's how its working. And, as has been addressed already in this post, it has a lot to do with the poor communication in this game.

I hope I'm wrong and some regular settlements are supporting their neighbors.

Goblin Squad Member

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Thod wrote:

Okay - a more serious post again. Why did I use the headline?

Crafter towns are not failing in regard to presence of people there. The opposite - and everyone seems t o agree on that.
But this seems not to translate into membership. The crafter towns represented some 26% of all votes - above average (this excludes Alderwag and Canis Castrum).
Now they represent just 13% (not yet corrected for Canis Castrum). So the relative percentage of players in crafter settlements to everything else did go down.
This despite crafter tons full of people. This despite it being easier to train fighting elsewhere as to have constantly moving around with resources. I know - I'm doing the run to Hammerfall on average 2-3 times a day.

I haven't seen any explanation for that presented here. So what will happen to these settlements post cataclysm when others can cherry pick what they need from the crafter town and when these players no longer need to move back and forward.

As I said - the title as click bait - but there is a serious message hidden in the numbers. Somehow the crafter settlements seem to e only 50% as efficient to turn over voters for them into playing customers or to attract new ones.

Perhaps the problem is simply that there are too many crafting settlements ?

If 1/3rd of the businesses in town sell the same stuff, a lot of them are going to fail.


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Ultimately I would be surprised if there ended up being more than one Crafting/Auction settlement per resource region/power bloc.

Goblin Squad Member

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Ultimately, there's no such thing as a "Crafting/Auction" settlement, as we understand it now, in the post-Catastrophe world. Every settlement will be able to choose to dedicate one of their 3 large plots to an auction house. Most probably will not. Those who do, however, will almost certainly have some combat training buildings as well, rather than filling their whole building plan up with craft huts.


My personal prediction is you will find one major hub/craft town in almost every region that will primarily stick to covering as many crafting things as they can (if not all). You'll find other combat oriented settlements specializing their crafting picks for their region's primary resources or taking the crafting options that synergize with their combat roles for the purpose of overcoming gating but offsetting external dependence.

Goblin Squad Member

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There is also potential value in trade towns on a static(ish) border between two regional alliances.


Yrme wrote:
There is also potential value in trade towns on a static(ish) border between two regional alliances.

I think those will end up being smaller half way houses so to speak that could act as an intermediary for the flow of materials back and forth. Keeping a border town secure and prosperous may be problematic if it's between possibly hostile forces. But keeping a presence with some basic facilities for moving goods might be both doable and lucrative.

Goblin Squad Member

It is actually much harder to recruit for a crafting town.

Until they hit tier 2 training barriers crafters are a lot more likely to play solo than a combat focused player. Despite all the talk of trade and swap, gathering and crafting are essentially solo activities. Gathering in a group achieves nothing other than reducing the take for everyone gathering.

Once a player does hit tier 2 it also often makes more sense as a crafter to join a settlement where you have a market rather than a settlement where everyone crafts.

Also if a group of players are thinking of joining a settlement its unlikely they will all be crafters.

There are big advantages to being in a crafting settlement but they are not obvious to new recruits. Perhaps the crafting settlements need to focus on recruiting entire companies - the "Mercenary Companies needed for a crafting town, we can supply all the tier 2 gear you need if you fight for us" sort of approach.

One significant issue for crafting settlements is they gave up a lot to be dedicated crafters however the AH system was temporarily abandoned in favor of "fixing" the PvP (that still almost never happens in game) and the proposed settlement advantages (training fees etc) of having all the neighbors train and craft at your town are still waiting development some time in the future.

Goblin Squad Member

Neadenil Edam wrote:
... Despite all the talk of trade and swap, gathering and crafting are essentially solo activities. Gathering in a group achieves nothing other than reducing the take for everyone gathering.

While there are no mechanical benefits to grouping for gathering, if gatherers coordinate their efforts and split up the space in a hex they can dramatically reduce their "run around looking for node" time. Every time a node is cleared it will respawn elsewhere in the hex, and nodes will often respawn within site of another gatherer.


Though at first glance it might just look like a target rich environment to a predator, a hex full of UNITED gatherers can better ward off predators.

I think we could see such groups, once the population rises enough that bumping into predators isn't so rare.

Right now, the size of the map in relation to the population makes "safety in numbers" not terribly important.

The other thing working against needing "safety in numbers" is that no gathering load is all that valuable. It represents *time* but there's no jackpot sort of loot for gatherers to care about, unlike a PvE hunter who lands a level 19 tier 3 recipe and deeply cares about getting THAT load home, even if it only took him 20 seconds to get it.

Goblin Squad Member

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Savage Grace wrote:

The other thing working against needing "safety in numbers" is that no gathering load is all that valuable. It represents *time* but there's no jackpot sort of loot for gatherers to care about, unlike a PvE hunter who lands a level 19 tier 3 recipe and deeply cares about getting THAT load home, even if it only took him 20 seconds to get it.

Recipes in trash nodes would fix that :D

Goblin Squad Member

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Gushers will change that dynamic.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Gatherers will never be able to fullfill the needs of bandits as a rich source of victims.

A day has 23 PFO hours. I reckon you can gather around 10 hours per day without risking to strip mine the hex. The 30 hours is a rough number - but should be accurate enough.

This means on average only < 1 gatherers can be in a hex at any given time or you strip mine the hex. The 10 hours is conservative - but even if it is closer to 20 hours - that is still not enough. I have seen strip mining occur in day 1 and 2 of the game - haven't seen it since.
Off course gatherers don't spread out evenly. At the same time they will disperse to 'better' times if lots of bandits appear at the same time.

Bottom line: a hex isn't sustaining enough gatherers to be target rich enough for bandits.

edit: the 10 hours are based on an average of 10000 resources in a hex, 30% gathered per day and 300 resources gathered per hour for a gatherer. You can gather up to 60% under ideal circumstances. But gathering isn't constant and will be in bursts. Also a good gatherer can gather >300 raw materials per hour - at least in flat areas.

Goblin Squad Member

Keeper's Pass is plenty healthy, way beyond character #'s. As the economic engine of EBA it will not find itself wont for anything it needs to be top level.

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Pino wrote:


Perhaps the problem is simply that there are too many crafting settlements ?

If 1/3rd of the businesses in town sell the same stuff, a lot of them are going to fail.

Pino really nailed it here, 10/33 crafting settlements was unlikely to be viable in the short term or the long. If we arbitrarily cut off "non failing" relative to overall population at currently >30, we find 3/13 ( a little under 25%) of them are crafting towns.

If I had to wing a guess that sounds like the correct ratio. I also agree that the crafting towns within major blocs will get bumps when certain mechanics are in.

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