Working on an idea for a grappling character and going through the forums but I'm still not sure which to go with. I'm not looking to tie up opponents just control, damage, and man handling awesomeness. I can make either work thematically. Character starting at 8 or 9th level.
I know the tetori gets inescapable grasp but the brawler gets sneak attack grapple damage and martial flexibility.
Bruno Breakbone has amazing advise. Hes a tetori but recently spoke very highly of the strangler.
Edited for spelling error.
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Tetori lets you shut down magical abilities that would render you useless such as freedom of movement and various teleportation spells. It also has tons of support to make it easier to make the check.
A strangler tries to stack additional damage/killing power onto its grapples.
In my opinion, if you're grappling, you're better off with the build that gets the check to succeed so you can impose the grappled penalty, and use it to assist your allies. Move enemies into your Barbarian's full attacks or your wizard's fireball, pin the enemy trying to make a b-line to your prone friend, or keep a caster having to concentrate and potentially mess up a spell.
In such a case, I'd go with the Tetori.
This is just another option, but an elf or assimar oracle with the battle mystery can make an effective grappler. By using favored class bonus. At level 20 you would be considered to have a 30 bab. This plus spells and feats and strength you can easily have 50+ added to your rolls to grapple.
Tetori bro. Ball um up. You can go quiggnog and get true strike= auto succeed not that you would need it. Later in the game constrict, final embrace master so sexy.
Considering strangler loses unarmed strike...and therefore doesn't even come with the prerequisites for improved grapple like a regular brawler (quite poorly thought up archetype...they could've said the damage never improves from base, but still counts as improved unarmed strike for the purpose of feat prerequisites, but noooooo, they just dropped unarmed strike altogether) it's not even a contest. Tetori monk...strangler is a trap.
It's an archetype that requires you spend two feats (improved unarmed strike and improved grapple) on being able to perform its basic function.
That's... sloppy. It should at least give you improved grapple and (later) greater grapple as bonus feats (with language about being able to ignore the pre-reqs).
Yeah, I'd recommend tetori, since tetori can actually shut down the spell that trivializes you.
Goofy Alternative: Do it as a human Lore Warden fighter, using your favored class bonus to raise your CMD against grapple checks every level. (As a bonus, you'll be able to immediately take grappling feats as you qualify for them.)
Eventually you'll reach a point where escaping grapples with you is functionally impossible. (At level 20, you'd have a grapple CMD of 58 before your stats, feats and items. I think you can reach the point that the tarrasque needs a natural 20 to beat your CMD?)
Thanks guys. I didn't think it would be this one sided. Guess I missed the trap.
I was thinking with the bonus feats left in, practiced strangler, and martial training it would have worked out closer. The monk does have better save and movement but less HP and no brawling armor. BAB shouldn't matter on a grapple build to much.
Oh, I meant for attacks other than grappling. Wouldn't be that important since you would be trying to grapple as much as possible. The brawler would have a better BAB when not grappling.
I feel I should point out that you can't dip monk while brawler or vice-versa. Hybrid class rules.
I feel I should point out that you can't dip monk while brawler or vice-versa. Hybrid class rules.
Where did you get that
Paizo says otherwise
here
I feel I should point out that you can't dip monk while brawler or vice-versa. Hybrid class rules.
They took that rule out of the final edition. It doesn't exist.
Bloodrager Blood Conduit archetype, with the Arcane bloodline. Disruptive bloodrage and Arcane bloodrage are good stuff!
That I did not know. Interesting.
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The thing is a Tetori counts their level as their BAB when grappling. And for maneuvers, because CMD often rises faster than AC, BAB is incredibly important to such builds, as it helps deal with the CMD.
Yeah - at 1st level they count their level as BAB for CMB & CMD. (All monks get CMB at 3rd - but not CMD.) This is especially impressive because they keep the monk ability to add their Wisdom to CMD, in addition to the +1/4 levels, which is how most monks have solid CMD in the first place. (The CMD boost is the reason not to wear armor as a Tetori.)
So - a Tetori probably has the highest grapple CMD of any class in the game. (probably - I haven't figured out every possible build)
If you go with a dex build - you can get stupidly high defenses as well. (Though that requires an extra 1-2 feats - Agile Maneuvers and probably Weapon Finesse.)