If you haven't purchased Skull & Shackles yet, tell us why!


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion

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I originally bought Rise of the Runelords and didn't play it for a long time. My group only plays once a month, with 6 players (sigh), so we're still going through that. No sense in investing in something else until that's complete.

S&S didn't have the best reviews from some web sites and basically said that it was too similar to RoR, and that the ship mechanic wasn't great. Having said that, if organized play existed in my area I'd still give it a shot.

Might buy S&S if it was 50% off.

Also, Wrath of the Righteous is coming soon and I believe it will have lots of innovative ideas in it. The AP really suites ADCG well imo. So my next purchase will probably be Wrath.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
hfm wrote:

Perhaps if you were tyring to expect a CCG out of it is the reason it was confusing? It's not billed or advertised as a CCG. You're not buying packs and packs of cards trying to randomly find some good cards, all the cards self contained in the base set and adventure packs. Every base set and AP has identical cards. The complete set can be purchased easily. Except for the rare promo cards that are not "random" but available in limited quantities for subscribers and con attendees and are not required to play. After all it's modeled directly after the Pathfinder Adventure Paths of their namesakes. If this was a phone, you'd be holding it wrong.

It's like RPG battles and looting in card form. There's a story being told on the cards as well. I don't get why you think it's a CCG.

My experience with CCG is practically nil. The bulk of the card games we have are Munchkin which is self-contained in each version, Flux, and Lunch Money, as well as a couple from Slugfest Games.

The three of us sat down at home because one of had bought the the big box set. We literally could not figure out how to play the game in the time we spent on it.


I own both RotRL and S&S with all APs and Character Add-On. I won't buy the next set, though - because we're only halfway through with S&S, and it will take us a couple of months to finish it.

When we’re done, we'll reevaluate if we want to play a third PACG path, or something else for a change; if it is PACG again, we'll see if we go wit WotR or whatever comes afterward.

For us, the monthly AP release is actually too fast :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I know the decision to move from bi-monthly to monthly releases came after a lot of noise from people who wanted more content, faster, and I can completely understand why Paizo made the change they did.

That said, I think it was a mistake.

With Rise of the Runelords as the only product available, there was one adventure path and 11 characters to play through it.

Add on Skull & Shackles, and you've now got 2 adventures paths and 22 characters (18 unique) - although there are a few who wouldn't be optimal outside of the path they came with (Swashbuckler, Gunslinger), most of the others can be used cross-set.

Add on promos and class decks, and you've got 51 characters, 40 unique, you've got 2 complete APs, and the option to add OP scenarios at comparatively low cost for additional replayability. We also repalyed RotR using the OP rules for deck upgrades.

I primarily play this game with my wife, and we can generally manage 5 games a week, but there are points where even we're struggling to keep up with the release schedule (haven't touched AP 6 yet, having just started playing through a different project the day before it arrived.)

On top of this, there are various comments we've seen about lack of story/theme. for Wrath and afterwards, I'd love to see some kind of booklet included in the Base set, which gives a fuller story (either like we get on OP scenarios, or like Autoduellist and Kittenhoarder have been making), with a map or two added on. Assuming there's not enough margin in the current pricing point to add this as a free extra, A bigger spread of time between sets would make the price rise a lot easier to stomach AND ensure that we actually have time to play all the content we've received.


I totally agree with MightyJim's post; I feel exactly the same way.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not sure if this is relevant, but...

I subscribed through Skulls & Shackles, but I'm dropping it for Wrath of the Righteous. The once per month releases are just getting a bit too fast for me to keep up with, and the two boxes are still able to offer plenty of replayability.


I also agree with MightyJim's post, and I would add that the increased difficulty is also a factor.

In RotR failure was rare, so I could expect to get through an AP in 5 or 6 sessions (allowing for one failure). That would probably take about 3 weeks, followed by a long wait for the next adventure (or I would write down the characters and reset the box for another group).

In S&S it's more like 8 to 10 sessions to complete an adventure. That would be 4 or 5 weeks, but as I'm also replaying RotR with new characters, probably a bit longer than that. So I tend to fall further behind the release schedule rather than catch up to it.

So somewhat ironically I'd say that monthly would have been a perfect release schedule for RotR, while every two months would work great for S&S.


MightyJim wrote:

On top of this, there are various comments we've seen about lack of story/theme. for Wrath and afterwards, I'd love to see some kind of booklet included in the Base set, which gives a fuller story (either like we get on OP scenarios, or like Autoduellist and Kittenhoarder have been making), with a map or two added on. Assuming there's not enough margin in the current pricing point to add this as a free extra, A bigger spread of time between sets would make the price rise a lot easier to stomach AND ensure that we actually have time to play all the content we've received.

I too would like to see something along those lines. LOTR LCG eventually did the same thing attaching a folded sheet for before and after story-line with each Quest.

As to releasing too quickly?

Who says you have to buy it and/or play it immediately?

Logically releasing monthly is a disadvantage to no-one. Whereas releasing Bi-monthly was a disadvantage to those who were thirsting for new content.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Troymk1 wrote:


Who says you have to buy it and/or play it immediately?

Logically releasing monthly is a disadvantage to no-one. Whereas releasing Bi-monthly was a disadvantage to those who were thirsting for new content.

It's a little more fun and exciting to play closer to the release date. My group is still in deck 3 (that's not all due to the release schedule of course) and probably won't get to Wrath before we finish. Paizo incentivizes players getting the content as it comes out through promos and also the blogs and forums. From the retailer's point of view, just-in-time delivery would be best, not arriving in a big pile and then eventually people buying it.

Just my two cents.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Troymk1 wrote:

As to releasing too quickly?

Who says you have to buy it and/or play it immediately?

Logically releasing monthly is a disadvantage to no-one. Whereas releasing Bi-monthly was a disadvantage to those who were thirsting for new content.

That's true, we don't have to buy the product. But if you're an OP facilitator and are trying to keep up with releases, etc. then it really isn't an option. And in the meantime, because of weather and other real-life issues, your players are slowly falling farther and farther behind. Which puts more stress on the players. It's not just the monthly adventure decks but the weekly releases of OP scenarios. I want all my players to be there at the end of the season but already that's not going to happen.

Then, on top of that, with a new AP coming out and a new season starting for OP, who really wants to finish up S&S if you got new stuff.


jones314 wrote:
Troymk1 wrote:


Who says you have to buy it and/or play it immediately?

Logically releasing monthly is a disadvantage to no-one. Whereas releasing Bi-monthly was a disadvantage to those who were thirsting for new content.

It's a little more fun and exciting to play closer to the release date. My group is still in deck 3 (that's not all due to the release schedule of course) and probably won't get to Wrath before we finish. Paizo incentivizes players getting the content as it comes out through promos and also the blogs and forums. From the retailer's point of view, just-in-time delivery would be best, not arriving in a big pile and then eventually people buying it.

Just my two cents.

Absolutely agree with your points.

I would be interested in How the distributors/retailers are doing?

Anecdotally I see a lot of people are still getting into this and buying the first set.

Intriguingly, unlike other card games that are years old. You won't have a massive upfront cost to get into PACG as each set is stand alone.


Troymk1 wrote:

As to releasing too quickly?

Who says you have to buy it and/or play it immediately?

Logically releasing monthly is a disadvantage to no-one. Whereas releasing Bi-monthly was a disadvantage to those who were thirsting for new content.

There's also the player-subscribers. If monthly is too frequent (and/or possibly too expensive), they might end up unsubscribing rather than paying for something that's just going to sit until they (maybe) get around to it later.

That runs the risk of them not even coming back to the game, especially if they subscribe mainly for the promos (such as myself) and would be unable (or unwilling to pay the extortionately high resale) to get them later.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Troymk1 wrote:

I too would like to see something along those lines. LOTR LCG eventually did the same thing attaching a folded sheet for before and after story-line with each Quest.

As to releasing too quickly?

Who says you have to buy it and/or play it immediately?

Logically releasing monthly is a disadvantage to no-one. Whereas releasing Bi-monthly was a disadvantage to those who were thirsting for new content.

It matters if you're a subscriber. There aren't any stores near me (like, within an hour) that stock on the PACG past the base box, so subscribing is the most cost efficient option for me, and it comes with some neat promos to boot.

If you're a subscriber though, you have to buy every sequential adventure, and if they're coming out too fast for you to handle, it doesn't make much sense to keep your subscription, and you have to miss out on the 20% cost reduction and promos if you later decide to pick up releases afterward.

There's also the theoretical issue of less time in development equating to lower quality, but that hasn't been a problem for Paizo or Lone Shark Games.


Mechalibur wrote:
There's also the theoretical issue of less time in development equating to lower quality, but that hasn't been a problem for Paizo or Lone Shark Games.

Frankly I can't agree with that. Before the release of Skull & Shackles I was hoping it would have less of an errata list than Runelords, but that doesn't seem to have been the case. There are plenty of errata, including old stuff that shouldn't keep recurring like undead monsters forgetting to be immune to Mental and Poison, and new errors like not having enough henchmen in the box. Even at least one scenario (Bizarre Love Triangle) that's practically unplayable as originally written.

So it would be an act of pure blind optimism for me to hope that Wrath of the Righteous will be a finished, polished, error-free product.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I think if you gave developers a lot more time, some extra errors would be caught, but certainly not all. People asked for more complex scenarios and they delivered with Skull and Shackles. So errors creep in. Which doesn't mean that they couldn't use better testing.

Silver Crusade

Pirate theme. No thanks.
I am looking forward to The Wrath of the Righteous though.
There's no pirates, right? (Zombies and Ninjas are ok, in small quantities...)

Silver Crusade

MightyJim wrote:


On top of this, there are various comments we've seen about lack of story/theme. for Wrath and afterwards, I'd love to see some kind of booklet included in the Base set, which gives a fuller story (either like we get on OP scenarios, or like Autoduellist and Kittenhoarder have been making), with a map or two added on. Assuming there's not enough margin in the current pricing point to add this as a free extra, A bigger spread of time between sets would make the price rise a lot easier to stomach AND ensure that we actually have time to play all the content we've received.

Yes. If the story is there, why not to add it to the card game? A small booklet won't increase the price much. Or even downloadable material for the fans would up the value of the product.


I haven´t got S&S yet because I still haven´t finished RotR and we feel that, in spite of the small tweaks and new stuff, there wasn´t much difference to justify buying a whole new set.


I guess I haven't bought S&S yet, because of two reasons really. The first, being that we only JUST finished RotRL about a month ago. The second, is that the pirate theme really isn't all that inspiring for me. I may well get it eventually, but there is little incentive for me to rush and get it, as I've already missed out on my chances at the promos. I think I'll likely just try for the new set as it comes out.

Grand Lodge

Klandestine wrote:

I was a huge fan of ROTR and I did buy S&S and the first few scenario decks, but sadly S&S really didn’t do anything for me. I don’t think the shift in design and mechanics ended up working for me. I enjoyed ROTR because it felt like a good old-fashioned dungeon bash. There was great synergy between the different characters and I liked the setting and theme.

I thought the same would be true of S&S but I found its increased difficulty (with the emphasis on overcoming tasks rather than opponents, so characters lost their 'identities' by having to spread their upgrades thinly to cope with the breadth of checks) coupled with rather faffy mechanics (don’t really like how the ships were done – and all the other extra game elements (swashbuckling trait, umpteen million allies…) and characters that didn’t feel like they had any synergy at all) meant that I sadly stopped purchasing the scenario decks.

I think, in truth, my experience was somewhat marred by the delays and problems at release, not having the character add on deck when I started play, class decks coming late – and so on. That really put a dampener on the experience for me.

I’m not sure about WOTR. Part of me wonders if it will be more of a return to the good old ROTR gameplay that I enjoyed, but I suspect – in an effort to make every AP unique – lots of ‘new stuff’ will be added to it (the mythic thing for one) which will probably dilute the experience for me. I’ll keep checking the boards for updates for certain.

I've had a hard time articulating why Skull & Shackles just didn't click for me the same way Runelords did... You did a great job for gathering those thoughts together! I completely agree with everything you've said

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I have all of RotR, but have not gotten very far into it. I came very close to not subscribing to S&S, due to the accelerated release schedule, but ended up getting it due to the announcement of Organized Play.

This was a game I wanted to play with my family, but it just hasn't quite clicked with them. In my area, it took a couple of months for Organized Play to get going, and by the time that happened, due to weather and other RL issues, I ended up a solidly behind everyone else at our location. At our location we only play every other week, so the release schedule seems blindingly fast, especially given the scenario difficulty.

All of which translates into being *really* on the fence about WotR. Once again, I think it's really going to depend on the OP setup, since that's the only place I can reliably manage to play.

So put me down as another one who would prefer a return to the every other month release schedule.


Well, first, I'm still working my way through RoR, so I don't feel any need to add another big box game that's just going to sit on my shelf. And bear in mind I've had RoR for about a year, and I'm just about to finish Burnt Offerings.

But second, I can't say that a pirate-centered adventure really appeals to me. When I finish RoR, I'll definitely want to look at PACG sets...but SaS is likely something I'll pass over, in favor of a more traditional fantasy setting.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Now that we're about to release the final installment of our second full AP, we're going to have data that lets us form a better picture of long-term play and purchase patterns. But all the sales data in the world won't tell us much about sales that didn't happen, so I'm coming direct to you for the answers.

If you're on these boards, you're clearly a fan of the card game, so if you haven't yet purchased the Skull & Shackles Base Set, please tell me why.

I'm not looking to judge you, just to learn from you, so please be candid.

Thanks!

Grand Lodge

I got S&S, but I'm not a huge pirate fan. Biggest reason I bought it was for Organized Play, but I'd have rather played organized with RoR.

Also, I get what the ships were doing and what they got you, but they didn't seem like a huge benefit in the games I played, just more of an annoyance.

I'm looking forward to Wrath though, sounds like a ton of fun. Also looking forward to Guild Play in that AP.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Just a note to say that I'm still reading, so please keep posting! And thanks to everyone who has already responded.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I purchased all of Rise of the Runelords, and subscribed through it. It was a bit on the expensive side for me, with everything else I had, but doable. When I heard the release schedule for S&S, I immediately cancelled my subscription because I didn't have the funding for it, and I simply don't have the time to play through the game that fast. Heck, I still haven't finished Rise of the Runelords! I'm tempted to pick up Wrath of the Righteous, but I'll have to speak with my wife about it.

Grand Lodge

1. I did not purchase RotR because we're currently playing through the AP in the RPG. I do not want spoilers or burnout.

2. I did not purchase S&S because of the pirate theme. (Oddly I would LIKE to play this as an AP.)

3. I WILL likely buy WotR because I like the theme and it's unlikely we'll get to that as an AP anytime, and if we do it will be enough in the future that any spoilers will be distant memories.

I am also apprehensive because my primary playing companions are my kids at 10 and 12 years old and it seemed relatively complex in the one demo of RotR I was involved in.

I am excited for the tablet version from Obsidian as it will be a great way for me to learn/master it prior to playing IRL ...


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

It's not quite what you asked for vic (since I'm a chronic subscriber so my preferences are invisible and probably irrelevant from a sales perspective) but I feel it's related:

I've obviously got all of S&S, but beyond the base set I haven't taken the other decks out of their boxes and I've never read through the rules.

This contrasts with RotRL where I finished each deck within a week of opening it. For me it's entirely due to the fact that the theme doesn't grab me - I'm not evaluating each base set release based on "clever mechanics" nor innovation but rather as another way to experience the corresponding AP. Pirate adventures don't do it for me (I still haven't read that AP properly) so I've never felt the urge to play it. I'm much more excited to play through Wrath of the Righteous (and Kingmaker, Curse of the Crimson Throne, etcetera...)

Down the track that may become relevant (if your next releases were announced as Iron Gods, Jade Regent and Reign of Winter then I might consider bowing out). Provided there's a sprinkling of "traditional* fantasy" sets then I don't think I'm likely to drop my sub - even if I doubt I'll ever get any use out of S&S.

Silver Crusade

Troymk1 wrote:

I have found these responses an interesting read.

As someone who will be 50 later this year I was involved when all the tropes that many of the respondents seem to think of as Fantasy 'Canon' were being developed, they were all new once. I remember when the thought of a dark elf was groundbreaking :)

To see such resistance to a (slightly) new take on a traditional fantasy setting is unsettling.

Not trying to be negative and accuse you lot of being being recalitrants (even if demonstrably true Ha!) But if you did enjoy ROTR get out of your bubble and try S&S. I promise you its a better product.

I actually believe you. But if I have to choose: pirates or no pirates, I will choose the latter.

Meaning Wrath of the Righteous is soon coming out.

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