Personally, I'd just consider the circle a formality of the process. Dealing with outsiders is a fickle thing, and unless you've established some kind of 'working relationship' with a particular outsider you trust above all else, it's safer to keep that circle up in case they decide to say 'no thanks" and go do their own thing. Outsiders tend to be surprisingly infexible, and even a Good aligned one on the loose can be incredibly disruptive.
I feel that planar binding should be kinda tricky, or it's far too easy for the spell level. It is nice having charisma, though...
If your charater would summon, it's only a step on from that. A risky step, but how are you going to make new friends if you don't try?
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@gabriel garon: don't worry mate, you are completely in the clear. Casting a spell with the alignment descriptor, that is [good] [evil] [lawful] [chaotic] is not an aligned action.
Meaning it is NOT evil to cast an [Evil] spell. The only thing that matters in regards to your alignment is what you do with said spell.
The alignment descriptors indicate how the spells interact with other spells, such as dispel evil, or whether or not a cleric can prepare a certain spell.
Have fun :)
-Nearyn
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Actually casting aligned spells might be an aligned act(per the devs, but RAW is iffy)*, but unless the GM is really strict one casting is not going to change your alignment. Many GM's go more by the action than the spell. As an example if you summon an evil monster.
*This matters because some GM's say only the words in the book matter, and other say intent(from the devs) trumps the words that are written book.
Ask your GM if he thinks it will affect your alignment.
Wraithstrike speaks the truth. Going by core rules casting an [evil] spell is not an evil act, meaning you are in the clear.
Some Devs have stated that it should be, and the optional supplement Champions of Purity states that even the minutest of [evil] spells counts as an evil action.
Wraithstrike is right, you should ask you GM if he's running only by the word of Core, or not.
-Nearyn
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I would like if they were to just have a blog on the issue of intent, but then state for word space reasons the CRB won't be errata'd. It won't really change my games much, but it might stabilize the "Is this evil" topics that come up.
Side note: I think certain spells such as the "protection from ____" should not even have an alignment.
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I want to say one dev has stated that the circle against requirements and the alignments involved in binding are flipped from what they should be thematically. Or that it needs to be examined by intent. Can't recall.
Will say that binding good(or neutral and sometimes even evil) outsiders is shady at best, unless that good outsider is willing to volunteer for whatever reason seems to demand a binding. If you're treating that outsider with respect, like a free-willed being rather than a tool or resource, you shouldn't even need to go through many of the hoops involved in planar binding which, to be honest, comes across as hideously evil in many of the cases it's been used in(enslaving angels as guards, forcing them to fight others, etc). It's a classic case of an ostensibly good aligned spell not coming across as very Good at all.
It is best to ask your DM, but casting an aligned spell is an aligned act. Here is the rule:
"The descriptors are acid, air, chaotic, cold, curse, darkness, death, disease, earth, electricity, emotion, evil, fear, fire, force, good, language-dependent, lawful, light, mind-affecting, pain, poison, shadow, sonic, and water.
Most of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves, but they govern how the spell interacts with other spells, with special abilities, with unusual creatures, with alignment, and so on."
"Evil: Spells that draw upon evil powers or conjure creatures from evil-aligned planes or with the evil subtype should have the evil descriptor.
"
Some people try convoluted arguments that using evil things isn't itself evil or try to argue by analogy that using an [acid] spell isn't an [acid] act, but both arguments require an immense warping of plain English.
Is it actually possible to call it with planar binding without using a magic circle, in which case i would only have one chance to try the check? And if he doesnt agree does he have a way of going back? Well... A movanic has planeshift. But still. Thanks for the opinions also. :)
Going by the word of the spell, no, it is unfortunately not possible to call the creature without trying to force it into the trap. Once again I'd advice asking your GM, she may allow it.
I know GMs who say that a called outsider can always return to their plane of origin, but by RAW, I believe the creature is only sent back to its plane upon completion of the service. If it escapes the trap or you release it from the trap, I guess it could then begin looking for a way to return on its own.
-Nearyn
It is best to ask your DM, but casting an aligned spell is an aligned act. Here is the rule:
"The descriptors are acid, air, chaotic, cold, curse, darkness, death, disease, earth, electricity, emotion, evil, fear, fire, force, good, language-dependent, lawful, light, mind-affecting, pain, poison, shadow, sonic, and water.
Most of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves, but they govern how the spell interacts with other spells, with special abilities, with unusual creatures, with alignment, and so on."
"Evil: Spells that draw upon evil powers or conjure creatures from evil-aligned planes or with the evil subtype should have the evil descriptor.
"Some people try convoluted arguments that using evil things isn't itself evil or try to argue by analogy that using an [acid] spell isn't an [acid] act, but both arguments require an immense warping of plain English.
This is absolutely true by RAW, from my recollection. I wanted to add, however, that (unless I'm mistaken) it was ruled for PFS (which is it's own and different creature) that they did not count as evil acts (and [good] spells did not count as [good] acts). Please do feel free to correct me if I mis-remembered, however!
Planar Binding isn't nice, that's for sure. You're forcibly calling a creature from whatever it was doing, trapping it, and then coercing it into helping you in order for you to let it go. Sure, you may have good reasons to do it but it's not really Good. Compare it to Planar Ally (the cleric spell). In Planar Ally, you have the same end effect - a powerful outsider is doing what you want it to do. The method, though, is different.
With Planar Binding, you're trapping, bribing, and subjugating an outsider under your will.
With Planar Ally, you're asking it nicely, negotiating, and agreeing on a course of action together.
That said, so what if you commit an evil act now and then? Good characters who aren't paladins and who don't answer to a higher power are free to do it. You're not a paladin so you don't have to worry about falling. You're not a cleric or an oracle so you don't have to worry about upsetting your god (of course, if you were, you'd be able to ask nicely). Regular good guys can do bad things for the greater good.
Also...the planar binding description in PHB says "To create the trap, you must use a Magic circle, focused inward." not "To create the trap, you must use a magic cirle able to restrain a creature of the target's alignment, focused inward."
In ultimate magic, it doesnt specifies the alignement of the circle. So logically, using a a magic circle as a trap, seems to be all the same, no mattet which creature you bind. Is there anywhere that it says the circle needs an alignment creature opposed to the target's?
Under the Magic Circle spells you get "A magic circle against evil can be focused inward rather than outward. When focused inward, the spell binds a non-good called creature"
Similar language for the other spells. You could use a Magic Circle Against Law ("... binds a non-Chaotic called creature") or Magic Circle Against Chaos ("... binds a nonnlawful called creature") and both would work.
To me, though, casting an evil spell isn't the most evil act of the whole thing - binding an intelligent creature into involuntary servitude seems to be a worse thing to do.
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I wanted to add, however, that (unless I'm mistaken) it was ruled for PFS (which is it's own and different creature) that they did not count as evil acts (and [good] spells did not count as [good] acts). Please do feel free to correct me if I mis-remembered, however!
I'm pretty sure that PFS ruling was more "house rule for this campaign" and less clarification about how it's supposed to work.
Inside or outside of PFS, however, forcing an outsider into your servitude isn't meaningfully different than slavery, which is difficult to argue as "good" under any circumstance.
So a magic circle against chaos can be used to bind a nonlawful movanic angel?
Mechanically, Monavic Deva is NG so a Magic Circle against Chaos (binds nonlawful) or a Magic Circle against Law (binds non-Chaotic) would bind it.
It's worth a discussion with your GM about how the fluff as to if binding an outsider is a strictly evil act or not and how evil it is. Also, for roleplaying sake, it's worth exploring how a good character would accept committing an evil act for the greater good.
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Would it be an evil act if i use the magic circle only to call him and erase a part to release him before dealing with him?
That's a GM question, really. Were I your GM - no, I wouldn't allow you to do that. You'd be trying to finagle yourself into being able to cast Planar Ally, which isn't something a wizard can do (without casting Wish).
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ask your GM, the way alignment is handled tends to differ from group to group. If you want to avoid casting magic circle against good inward, you can also use magic circle against law inward (if the outsider is non-lawful) or chaos if it is non-chaotic. If you don't prep the circle with dimensional anchor the outsider likely can teleport out of it or maybe even planeshift home.
It seems like you're trying to come up with a mechanical answer to a role-playing question. You're not going to find one. It's really a fluff thing. Talk with your GM. Also, you seem to be actively trying to avoid a good role-playing opportunity here. Unless you've got some levels as a paladin, go ahead and do something a bit on the dark path in order to fight the greater evil.
I wanted to add, however, that (unless I'm mistaken) it was ruled for PFS (which is it's own and different creature) that they did not count as evil acts (and [good] spells did not count as [good] acts). Please do feel free to correct me if I mis-remembered, however!I'm pretty sure that PFS ruling was more "house rule for this campaign" and less clarification about how it's supposed to work.
This is basically correct (they don't allow crafting feats or other similar elements there, as well) - which is exactly why I noted "which is it's own and different creature" - and is definitely worth clarifying. Thanks!
The main reason I added what I did was so that people could have some idea of where such an idea might come from - if someone primarily plays PFS, than they're going to have a different idea of the rules than someone who does not.
Incidentally, those who follow PFS rules will have several rules-clashes with the Core rulebook, ranging from an inability to enchant specific items to inability to take certain feats, to what some classes get at first level.
No. It isn't an evil act. The spell is good so the binding isn't how most people are viewing it. It's a Charisma check so I imagine it's you impressing the outsider and befriending them. Celestial beings are busy folks, I'm sure they want to help everyone, but they also got demons to slay and stuff like that. Your cause needs to seem more important to them.
Binding an outsider should be viewed as having them bound to you in friendship.
If I were your DM, I'd warn your magester o'magicks that trying to rig the negotiations with the angel by making the conditions for the binding in his favor so he can pay the angel as little as possible isn't acting very benevolent and is instead placing money and greed before the well being of others. That's just me and my two cents though.
Hi i play a strongly good aligned wizard and i wonder. I consider binding a movanic deva to help my party fight an evil dragon attacking the caravans along a trade road, and thus killing innocents in the way. Binding an angel is naturally a good spell, but requires te casting of an evil spell (magic circle against good). So is binding an angel both a good and evil act?
Magic circle vs chaos/law works too for the record. I'd probably forgo the circle entirely in this case though.
I'd probably forgo the circle entirely in this case though.
Unfortunately you need the magic circle trap.
Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spell's range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom.
To create the trap, you must use a magic circle spell...
Circle/Law and Circle/Chaos work, though.
If the angel says no, give them an offer that is trivial ("your freedom in exchange for touching the floor once" type stuff).
Don't forget to give your GM the AYFKM face if he insists on a charisma check for the trivial request after a 24 hour wait (which is stupidly still required by RAW).
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I'd probably forgo the circle entirely in this case though.Unfortunately you need the magic circle trap.
Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spell's range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom.
To create the trap, you must use a magic circle spell...
Circle/Law and Circle/Chaos work, though.
If the angel says no, give them an offer that is trivial ("your freedom in exchange for touching the floor once" type stuff).
Don't forget to give your GM the AYFKM face if he insists on a charisma check for the trivial request after a 24 hour wait (which is stupidly still required by RAW).
Excuse me, I mean I wouldn't care to actually secure it, or would politely break the circle with my foot or something upon arrival.
Though people frequently forget that you can use any circle other than one that directly corresponds to the alignment of the creature. So if you're summoning a Neutral creature (such as an elemental), you can use any of the four circles. If you're summoning a Neutral Good angel, Law, Chaos, or Evil circles will all work just fine. Etc, etc.