Silver for nothing and your recipes / spells / maneuvers for free


Pathfinder Online

151 to 176 of 176 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Goblin Squad Member

Yea, dude, if you get hit by their debuffs, you can say goodbye to being able to effectively attack. We consider this fighting back, also, they do start out with an attack. This is why we kill them first.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gol Phyllain wrote:
How is it that you guys reported the bug multiple times and nothing was said about it publicly but then Golgotha reported it and there was pretty much an immediate response?

Really? Where's the link to your report? If it wasn't publicly posted, where's the copy of the email you sent?

Nihimon reports that the Prelates/Casters doing nothing but debuffing is apparently a bug - Febrary 9th

Goblinworks acknowledges the problem with Prelates/Casters - February 11th

All hail Golgotha, exploitslayer!

/snort

Paizo Employee Goblinworks Game Designer

4 people marked this as a favorite.

For whatever reason, the reports about the Ustalav casters slipped through the cracks. It's quite likely that the exact details and full extent of the problem simply didn't become obvious to us until players were battling them regularly and until players were advanced enough to easily withstand the damage from the casters' initial attack. Or we just misunderstood the issue and didn't give it the priority it deserved. Regardless, we appreciate all the reports received along the way, as they all helped us to eventually see exactly what the problem was and the importance of dealing with it.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Nihimon, I just wanted to say I find it really sexy when you talk about yourself in the third person. It makes my gnome parts murmur in ecstasy.

Goblin Squad Member

Everyone knows gnomes are easily stimulated.

Goblin Squad Member

Eyraphel Teralyn wrote:

Humor me for one further example:

Starter goblins used to drop more than they should have. It was not considered exploiting to farm them, as many players did. Every player could kill a goblin, get the same chance at loot. It didn't matter how you did it or what technique you used. Now, they drop next to nothing.

I was going to walk away, but since you asked so nicely as are being so civil, I will answer your request.

To me, the goblins situation was WAY different, as GW intentionally made their loot table what it was, then realized people were farming them BECAUSE of this. Their combat mechanics were not flawed, they were just their for new players to kill, and ended up being the best farming.

The "Usties" had a flaw in their combat mechanic, that made the Casters and Preaters pretty much useless. Now if GW INTENDED this to be their original combat mechanics, then realized it wasn't such a smart idea, this WOULD NOT be an expliot. But since it WAS NOT their intended combat mechanic, it was a BUG. and by taking advantage of a mob that was bugged, ti was exploiting.

EDIT: going for VD dinner with wife so may be time before any more responses, IF ANY


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for the response, Tigari. There is definitely a distinction to be made between a flawed but intentional decision and a bug that was never working as intended.

I think this is dangerous for us to consider, though, because how will we know what is intended by the developers and what isn't? We report things that we believe are unintentional as bugs, but how long do we wait before a "bug" is considered intentional after being silently ignored by the developers we reported it to? We knew mobs weren't using proper attacks, but it wasn't until someone finally encountered Ustalavians that we found an example of that bug that was really imbalanced.

By prioritizing other fixes first, does the developer assume responsibility for this specific case of the same bug? Do we blame the developers who had both pieces of the puzzle but didn't put them together? Or do we expect the players to predict the developers' response to issues they aren't even aware of?

In Alpha, we could explore every bug and exploit freely to understand just how bugged that thing was. Now, players are left second-guessing the developers and, worse, their intentions.

I fully agree that the Ustalavian casters are less effective than they should be, but when players have to ponder the ethical and political consequences of killing any mob they come across, it cripples us. There's no way for us to know every intention of every developer. We have to act on what we have, not what we think the developers want, or else we won't be able to play the game at all without someone crying foul because their prediction of Goblinworks's intentions differs from ours.


People should be aware that with the achievements mechanic, it is quite possible when a bug gets known that devs can tell who benefited the most and then apply PROPORTIONAL remedies.

If someone starts noticing new people showing up to their bugged hunting grounds (especially the kind of people who would drag GMs along on a town raid so they could see for themselves how useless Thornguards are) simply filing a bug report to cover their butts and saying "see I reported it, too" won't fool the devs.

Having the Dragon Slayer 10 achievement when the devs realize that dragons are harmless could be a very bad thing.

Or maybe I'm wrong and "to the victor" will "go the spoils"....

...again.

Goblin Squad Member

I agree with you Savage Grace, that is the very reason why TEO reported, extensively the Promotion/Demotion exploit/bug, on several different levels, including emails, bug reports, and getting a GM on our mumble to explain exactly how it works. We believe in reporting and doing our part to make this game succeed.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

This "gol" organization really likes drama it seems.


I don't understand what remedies would be applied to a group, proportional or not. Since you linked to it, I'm going to assume you read the same thread I did (that started this..) about how doing ustalavians isn't considered an exploit and is, in fact, encouraged. I hardly see why GW would look to see who benefited the most from a non-exploit and "remedy" that group. I also fail to see how the reporting or non-reporting (regardless of timeliness) of a non-exploit would or would not "fool the devs."

As for the point about having brought a GM along before...I've *personally* invited Lisa to every Ustalavian escalation we've ever done when she's been on mumble. The time she finally comes results in ourselves and Lisa herself being slandered as cheats in this thread by a certain group touting their GM-bring-along experience.

I believe Tigari put it best when he said "We can sit here and debate this all day, but its all up to GW to decide." Indeed, I'll let GW have the last words: "...until they're fixed, those of you with a PvE bent might consider hunting them down." "I hesitate to truly call this an exploit, hence the -ish"

Goblin Squad Member

actually it was never stated it was NOT an exploit, they said exploit-ish (it either is or is not, no middle ground) The worse thing they could of done would say "exploit-ish". A lot of us are upset, because we view it as exploiting (as would most of the MMO community, I even had a LONG talk with a friend who has no interest in this game, just to make sure I was not over thinking anything), and had another group been the one that done this, would be getting lynched by a good portion of the community.

Even if this was reported, the fact that the farming continued is what upsets me. But I'm leaving this thread, my opinion has been stated, and I don't care to discuss it any longer.


Fierywind wrote:
I don't understand what remedies would be applied to a group, proportional or not.

stealth edit: I just realized that you used the word group (although my example didn't). There might be a bit too much player outrage at penalizing (or even rewarding) entire groups as they are structured in this game.

I always try to keep in mind I could wind up on the other side of any coin I'm describing.

To cite another fictional example, if it is tax season and I'm too busy to play for a week and my mates do something awful to anger the devs, I *might* be a little upset to come back and find a group remedy applied that affects me if I wasn't involved. But then again I benefit or suffer from our tower count regardless of whether I was tower warrioring or not. So it's hard to say.

Although anything that angers Ryan and Lisa like that might anger me too. In which case I might just decide I needed new friends.


On Saturday I went out to Ustalavs and hunted with a small group averaging 4 people for what seemed like 2 to 3 hours. I got a tier 1 recipe and a tier 2 recipe, no spells or maneuvers.

The next day on voicecomms I asked the 10 or so people who were on if they thought it was a fair statement to say that there are some goblins packs that are harder to fight than Ustalavs (since that was my impression).

I got no disagreement, and was even reminded by others that Shaman/Bomber combinations are particularly unpleasant and don't seem to drop tier 2 rewards.

THAT is the kind of feedback I would hope the devs would receive (if the devs hadn't already announced that they know Ustalavs are imbalanced and are fixing them soon).

It doesn't even mean that my impression is one the devs would agree with, in the end.

In fact even if the devs agreed with such an assessment, they might just decide to do something like changing goblin behavior or making them more rewarding.

Goblin Squad Member

Savage Grace wrote:


I got no disagreement, and was even reminded by others that Shaman/Bomber combinations are particularly unpleasant and don't seem to drop tier 2 rewards.

It is interesting you say that as I am not having near the problems with Shamans the last week or two and assumed they had changed. Maybe I have just crossed some thresh-hold in terms of saves and no longer get hammered by then so badly. They no longer seem to spin me around either.

Goblin Squad Member

Dude, Goblin Shaman/Bombs are deadlier than MS, they are the deadliest combo in the game. Go past one that spawns more than 3-4 of them, you instantly die, no bleeding out, you just appear at the shrine.

In Alpha, got caught in a kill death loop with them in T2 armor, ugh. You make a good comparison though, and I agree with you, Shaman/Bombers are worse than Usties. If you rated all 16 escalations, Usties are still top 3-4 (mainly cause of damage output, debuff severity, and ranged stunning).


Neadenil Edam wrote:
Savage Grace wrote:


I got no disagreement, and was even reminded by others that Shaman/Bomber combinations are particularly unpleasant and don't seem to drop tier 2 rewards.

It is interesting you say that as I am not having near the problems with Shamans the last week or two and assumed they had changed. Maybe I have just crossed some thresh-hold in terms of saves and no longer get hammered by then so badly. They no longer seem to spin me around either.

I got spun around last week, but this character was pushing hard to tier 2 weapon/armor feats, and hadn't given saves a lot of attention yet.

Goblin Squad Member

Savage Grace wrote:
Neadenil Edam wrote:
Savage Grace wrote:


I got no disagreement, and was even reminded by others that Shaman/Bomber combinations are particularly unpleasant and don't seem to drop tier 2 rewards.

It is interesting you say that as I am not having near the problems with Shamans the last week or two and assumed they had changed. Maybe I have just crossed some thresh-hold in terms of saves and no longer get hammered by then so badly. They no longer seem to spin me around either.
I got spun around last week, but this character was pushing hard to tier 2 weapon/armor feats, and hadn't given saves a lot of attention yet.

I am not 100% sure its the saves that is more a hunch - but it does seem you are a lot beeter off out of heavy armor (which kills your saves) and my DT who has all saves at 70 or 80 does a lot better than my main who is a lot lower.

Goblin Squad Member

Savage Grace wrote:

... there are some goblins packs that are harder to fight than Ustalavs (since that was my impression).

I got no disagreement, and was even reminded by others that Shaman/Bomber combinations are particularly unpleasant and don't seem to drop tier 2 rewards.

Wow. Before they added a cooldown to Shadowblast, I was able to take out camps with 3 Goblin Shamans plus a half-dozen other mobs, solo with Tier 1 +2 gear without ever running away.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

Wow. Before they added a cooldown to Shadowblast, I was able to take out camps with 3 Goblin Shamans plus a half-dozen other mobs, solo with Tier 1 +2 gear without ever running away.

You probably don't stop to tell them how everyone else isn't playing the game the way you want them to before attacking.

Goblin Squad Member

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Back in my day we would kill 100 Mordant Spire, only wearing our underwear, with nothing but a wooden club to defend ourselves with. One time, I killed 50 of them just by looking at 'em funny. Yer all a bunch of sissies compared to the mighty Tink.


I believe Tink just won this argument.

Goblin Squad Member

I defeated a purple ogre by talking him to death. Actually, I think he was holding his breath until I shut up, and that's why he turned purple...

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Tink wrote:
Back in my day we would kill 100 Mordant Spire, only wearing our underwear, with nothing but a wooden club to defend ourselves with. One time, I killed 50 of them just by looking at 'em funny. Yer all a bunch of sissies compared to the mighty Tink.

Pfft... that is nothing. Why wear underwear, back in my day we just walked up to them naked with no weapons. Seeing how well endowed I was, then Mordent men backed away in shame while the Mordant women starting fighting each other to get to me first.

Goblin Squad Member

Black Silver of The Veiled, T7V wrote:
Gol Tink wrote:
Back in my day we would kill 100 Mordant Spire, only wearing our underwear, with nothing but a wooden club to defend ourselves with. One time, I killed 50 of them just by looking at 'em funny. Yer all a bunch of sissies compared to the mighty Tink.
Pfft... that is nothing. Why wear underwear, back in my day we just walked up to them naked with no weapons. Seeing how well endowed I was, then Mordent men backed away in shame while the Mordant women starting fighting each other to get to me first.

... and you were lucky we would have given anything to be naked with no weapons ... we had to fight them tied to a stake with blindfolds

Goblin Squad Member

In the snow! Uphill! Do you know how hard it is to charge uphill? You think charges don't work now.

151 to 176 of 176 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Licensed Products / Digital Games / Pathfinder Online / Silver for nothing and your recipes / spells / maneuvers for free All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Pathfinder Online