PFS - Emerald Spire - Opinions Please


Pathfinder Society

The Exchange

Ok, I was considering getting the whole Emerald Spire bundle of products. That way I could have a fair amount of PFS GM’ing stuff mostly prepared that hasn’t been run much in my area. Maps, pawns, etc… Then I’d have them in a box in the trunk ready to go as needed.

However, I know exactly 2 people that have been playing the Emerald Spire at another shop. They said it is so easy they are bored and are not sure they will even bother finishing it. It was designed for 4 low powered PC’s. PFS is almost always 6 players, the only people that sign up for the modules like that are experienced people (so well built PC’s), PFS GM’s can’t adjust, PFS isn’t all of each level. Apparently it has been simple. They have been dividing up into 2 groups and just rushing through without any tactics or care just to get through it faster. They are talking about either doing 2 sections in one afternoon (since it is so simple and quick) or just dropping it altogether.

Has this been anyone else’s experience? Have you found it boring for PFS play? I don’t want to lay out that cash if people aren’t going to enjoy it and sign up.

Grand Lodge

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Cap it to 4. If you run it with 6, it's possible for an optimized party to run roughshod over the dungeon unless they're completely unequipped for the floor's special challenge. With 4 it should be fine - especially on lower floors they are likely to need some optimization just to survive.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

I own it, maps and everything (the Kickstarter), and yeah there really is no scaling involved, and while I am playing part 1 next week, well I am not worried with a party of 6 including a summoner.

Cap it to 4 players or maybe even 3 and a pregen, or introduce it as an option for newer players. You could even consider doing this as a "private" game and only allow sane characters.

EDIT: Playing some of the earlier levels could almost count as powerleveling, so if some of the players in your are desire/need a higher level character.. it could be a good idea.

Dark Archive 5/5

I ran it as a home game ..

no gunslingers
no summoners

and it was a challenge with 4.. not impossible but challenging

5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

It's true that Emerald Spire is quite easy, especially with 6 players. I think what can make it a bit boring is the fact that it's pure dungeon crawling. It even has a way to teleport back to base camp, reminding of the "Diablo" franchise and its town portals :P

Selter Sago de'Morcaine PFS wrote:
PFS isn’t all of each level.

Where did you get that from? Emerald Spire doesn't leave anything out. You only leave out the story-stuff outside the dungeon.

4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere

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Some of its levels are much, much harder than others. To the point where it can give you mood whiplash when you walk out of a relatively easy level and straight into a TPK. (Well, technically, we had two survivors. But if we lose another character, we have to stop playing with our current squad, because out of four characters, three have died and are totally broke.)

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, Isles—Online

as others say run for 4 or 5 players only.
study the monster tactics - not all the levels are easy for players to zerg their way through.
read the 'emerald spire project' that has been posted.
each author was limited to 5000 words, sometimes you have to take clues from the battlemats and vague descriptions to correctly interpret all the environmental hazards.

the sanctioning guidelines say that you run the module in its entirety - although each level is presented seperatly, there is precedent for using the random encounters tables and content from fort inevitable, both to set up an overarching plot and tie the levels together.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South

Quote:
there is precedent for using the random encounters tables and content from fort inevitable, both to set up an overarching plot and tie the levels together.

What? You mean we can use the random encounters? I would be happy to use the box on page 21 ("For six or

more PCs, increase the number of monsters encountered to
keep the expected advancement on track.") because i will run it for a group of 6. But I always thought we as PFS-GMs had to ignore these parts because they are outside the sanctioned part.
Is there any definitve case where it is stated that we can use these parts? Because i always got the answer that we might use fort inevitable but only as a background and not for anything mechanicly.

5/5 *****

chris manning wrote:

as others say run for 4 or 5 players only.

study the monster tactics - not all the levels are easy for players to zerg their way through.
read the 'emerald spire project' that has been posted.
each author was limited to 5000 words, sometimes you have to take clues from the battlemats and vague descriptions to correctly interpret all the environmental hazards.

the sanctioning guidelines say that you run the module in its entirety - although each level is presented seperatly, there is precedent for using the random encounters tables and content from fort inevitable, both to set up an overarching plot and tie the levels together.

As a member of Chris's group I can say that the lower levels definitely start to get more difficult. Last night we ended up bailing out of level 11 leaving my animal companion behind to die. We did activate two encounters at once and with only 5 of us it was just too much to handle coming at the end of the exploration of the level when many of us were fairly far down on spell slots.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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Emerald Spire is a module, not a scenario, and wasn't written with Pathfinder Society as its primary venue. For modules, the Guide instructs GMs to run them as written, even if that violates some standard PFS-campaign rules.

For example, if you run Society characters through the "Ruby Phoenix Tournament" module, use the rules for Performance Combat, even though they aren't used in regular, scenario play. And yes, if you're running something like "From Shore to Sea," use the random encounter tables, even though regular scenarios don't have wandering monsters. That's part of the environment for that sort of module.

Emerald Spire has notes on scaling up to 6 players. Use them.

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If access to all the bells and whistles of the robust Pathfinder environment is making the adventure too easy, have you considered running it in Core Mode?

The Exchange

Andreas Forster wrote:

...

Selter Sago de'Morcaine PFS wrote:
PFS isn’t all of each level.
Where did you get that from? Emerald Spire doesn't leave anything out. You only leave out the story-stuff outside the dungeon.

That is what I was told. Some sections of the map on each level weren't used when running for PFS. {shrug}

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Chris Mortika wrote:

...

If access to all the bells and whistles of the robust Pathfinder environment is making the adventure too easy, have you considered running it in Core Mode?

I would like to do both. If I'm going to outlay that much cash I would like to get more than 1 use out of it. I don't mind 1 use on the scenarios (even though I end up running them more than once), but that is a lot cheaper than the modules, maps, and pawns for something like ES.

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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

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Cap it to 4 players ... or introduce it as an option for newer players. ...

I like this. I'll see if the guy that schedules for our local will go for that. Se if he will post it as only for 4 or new players.

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Thanks guys. Sounds like maybe those guys were over reacting. I will put this back on the list for consideration.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South

Quote:
Emerald Spire has notes on scaling up to 6 players. Use them.

If I understand this correctly we can use the not exactly defined rules for scaling the encounters up to 6 Players?

If yes how should we interpret the scaling:
Spoiler:
For six or more PCs, increase the number of monsters encountered to keep the expected advancement on track.
this is everything in the module about scaling. If we are allowed to use this would it be ok/reasonable to incerase tho number of mooks that are already in the module if there are 6 Players at the table?
For Example in Level 1
Spoiler:
adding 1 Gobin Commando G in the main rooms (A4,A8) and 1-2 Goblins in the secondary rooms (A6,A9,A11) and propably in the boss rooms (A10,A15)
These changes should not kill the players but "normalise" the action economy back to the point where it was when there were only 4 players

The random encounters are unlike in "From Shore to Sea" presented as "per day" encounters so would it be reasonable to only use them 1 per level? (if they arent getting back to town during that level)

If these Options were allowed this would help with a big group so that they do not crumbstomp everything in their way without beeing to dangerous.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Chris Mortika wrote:


....

Emerald Spire has notes on scaling up to 6 players. Use them.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r51h&page=2?Emerald-Spire-and-PFS#75

(I don't know why the link is not working - but copy/paste does)

Actually adding the extra encounters are not allowed for PFS play

"The two things that come to mind that the format does not allow are changing encounters (adding creatures to reflect more than four characters, for example) and limiting gear access."

4/5 *

LINK

4/5

I have found running the Emerald Spire to be fun. It is not Bone Keep, but it is certainly tougher than say a season zero or a season one. If you really need to make the first level more challenging just run it with pregens.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South

Ah ok thanks for the clear answer. I would have been surprised if it would realy been allowed to scale the encounters per hand and not like every other PFS-scenario i have mastered with a box with the changes.

Than i will resereve these changes for my homegroup.

3/5

I am running it for PFS at the moment running a level every two weeks. I think it is one of the best dungeon crawl I have ever GMed. My recommendation is to limit your table to four players. No more. It wasn't designed for more than that.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

Chris Mortika wrote:

If access to all the bells and whistles of the robust Pathfinder environment is making the adventure too easy, have you considered running it in Core Mode?

I am going to try just that. Four people, core mode.

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