PTBC - The Redemption Engine


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Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Boar and Rabbit ePub

Let me start by saying that I love Avistan - so much great writing and so many great adventures have come from the Inner Sea - but it's so refreshing to get to explore the other continents and their cultures. The Iridian Fold is fascinating, as is the idea of soulmates. I must admit it harkens to my experiences in real life, and although I have not yet found mine I have been very close several times and hope to one day have some semblance of one. Bors and Roshad fortunate to share something that so few people have, regardless of gender, ethnicity, religion, social class, or anything else people think matters, and it is similarly refreshing to see that bond shared between two characters in such intensity.

(Aside from their story, I would also like to see what you think about their characters in game terms, mainly classes/archetypes or anything else you want to discuss.)

Liberty's Edge

Re: James telling us that he expected us to read Boar and Rabbit afterwards, I have to admit I liked reading it before the novel. I learned early on that if a web fiction and a novel come out at about the same time, the web fiction is generally set before the novel, and it makes more sense to read it in that order. I read a few in the wrong order, and was thinking (for instance) that I would have loved to read "The Walkers from the Crypt" before Plauge of Shadows, even though I read it in the other order originally. (And, you really want to read "Bells for the Dead" before Stalking the Beast, as it gives you context and sympathy for one of the POV characters of the novel.)

So, all that being said, having read "Boar and Rabbit" before The Redemption Engine, when the novel started I was thinking that perhaps this was an odd case where a web fiction and a novel by the same author would not actually connect to each other. When we meet Roshad and Bors in the novel, it's a nice twinge of recognition.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Hmm, lets see, for Roshad I'd definetly say Sorcerer. Bors? That's tricky. He's too disciplined and calm to be a Barbarian I believe, so I would go with either Fighter or Cavalier, leaning towards Cavalier due to all the horses and horse motifs.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Rysky wrote:
Hmm, lets see, for Roshad I'd definetly say Sorcerer. Bors? That's tricky. He's too disciplined and calm to be a Barbarian I believe, so I would go with either Fighter or Cavalier, leaning towards Cavalier due to all the horses and horse motifs.

Absolutely sorcerer for Roshad, although I'm not sure what bloodline yet, but that may be more evident in the novel. He can cast Spider Climb, so he has to be at least 4th level. ALso, he was called a thief a few times so he probably started out as a rogue, and from his moves in the beginning of Chapter Three he might have the Roof Runner archetype. So if I had to build Roshad as an NPC he would be something like CG Male Human Rogue (Roof Runner) 3/Sorcerer 4 (or higher) at least for the ePub.

I like barbarian for Bors more than cavalier, perhaps with the Mounted Fury archetype, but since we haven't really seen him in action yet it's a tough call. Then again, his skills might state otherwise as he was good at using Bluff and Diplomacy with his father, and those are cavalier class skills. For a third option, he could even be a ranger with the Horse Lord archetype and the Two-Handed combat style. I'll have to get further into The Redemption Engine to make up my mind.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Speaking of which, I'd like for us to have Chapters One through Eight read for discussion this Saturday as originally planned. I know it's Valentine's Day, but if we can get it done and can steal a few minutes away from our significant others in the early afternoon, I'd like to start at our usual time of 2:00 if possible. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

The Horse Lord Ranger is a thought, heck he might even have a level of Aristocrat lol


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Roshad seems to be decent at stealthing, so I assumed he was a rogue/sorcerer that in 3.5 would have ended up as an arcane trickster PrC. I thought Bors completely fit with cavalier, although it is true that he doesn't have a mount per se. Or a banner, so... heh maybe it's not cavalier at all? I was actually thinking of another 3.5 class, the Knight, for him, most of the book.

Commenting on reading before or after: I read it after because I'm terrible at keep track of the webfiction and usually only remember to read it if there's a novel tied into it. I have to say that reading it after was actually a bit more confusing than had I read it before. In the book, it seemed like Roshad and Bors were both inductees into the Iridian Fold and that there was perhaps a lot of significance to Roshad's veils, the different types of chains, and perhaps even the mage/warrior dynamic (as though the pairings were deliberate and one augments the other). I mean, this was all speculation and me just filling in the gaps, but I did not infer that the two of them had met and fought against adversity to declare their love for each other so much as... perhaps been "paired up" in the monastery, or like, met through a mystic ritual or something.

Reading the bit about the "stolen chain" and their hiding from the members of the Fold and the way it sounded like they hadn't actually officially participated in Fold activities in any way (?) left me kind of scratching my head. Did they immediately head to Kaer Maga after banishment, or were there a few years in-between?

Managing Editor

There were definitely some years between the short story and the novel. And in terms of whether they ever got to do much "official" Iridian Fold stuff, and the significance of some of the Iridian Fold signifiers (like Roshad's veils)... well, that's a story for another day. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Rereading my comment I feel like I sounded really critical and like I had my own idea of what "should" have happened - I didn't mean it that way at all. I'm really sorry if it seemed like that. I just straight-up meant it as "gee this was what I walked away from the book with and reading the short fiction was very different from what I had anticipated", nothing more.

Can I ask - if it doesn't reveal too much - what the process for choosing this story, this time period in these characters' lives, was like? I ask just from a place of intense curiosity! There are a lot of places the story could have picked up - either at their first meeting, at their first induction into the Iridian Fold, at their reasons for leaving for Kaer Maga - what was it that appealed about starting their story here?


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber

I'm slowly reading Redemption Engine, so I'm going to be WAY behind on comments. But I'm sharing random thoughts now:

-I love that Kaer Maga is Cockney, or at least that some of them are (maybe just the Puddles?)

-Salim an Apiarist? I can just see him donning a white bee suit to go tend his colonies! :D

Managing Editor

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xeose4 wrote:

Rereading my comment I feel like I sounded really critical and like I had my own idea of what "should" have happened - I didn't mean it that way at all. I'm really sorry if it seemed like that. I just straight-up meant it as "gee this was what I walked away from the book with and reading the short fiction was very different from what I had anticipated", nothing more.

Can I ask - if it doesn't reveal too much - what the process for choosing this story, this time period in these characters' lives, was like? I ask just from a place of intense curiosity! There are a lot of places the story could have picked up - either at their first meeting, at their first induction into the Iridian Fold, at their reasons for leaving for Kaer Maga - what was it that appealed about starting their story here?

No worries--I didn't take any offense. :) And despite the fact that I'm lurking, a book club is absolutely the place to criticize said work! Please don't hold back just because I'm here.

Lurks in the corner watching you with giant bugged-out eyes.

There were a couple of reasons I chose to write about that time period for the short story. One was that I wanted a chance to show off some Casmaron in detail, and this was a nice opportunity. :) Another was that, since the novel deals with them after they've already been together for a long time, I wanted to write something that showed them early on and really gave you a sense of their characters and their relationship before they'd had a chance to grow and mature together. But I also wanted to show something about the Iridian Fold. So this seemed like a good midpoint!

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Ah, Kaer Maga. All I knew about this city before this novel were a few brief moments from playing The Godsmouth Heresy module, which wasn't too much, but now it has really come alive for me. Too bad our group didn't get to explore it more in the game, it's an intriguing city. Undead walking openly in the streets...
(Sutter mentioned the Godsmouth Cathedral in chapter four, so I wonder if he has Salim go there later to destroy some undead!)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I always enjoy the amount of life Sutter is able to breathe into a setting. I did not recognize Kaer Maga (although I had read about it before) until the bit with the troll augur and reading prophecy in his own entrails. I had actually thought that Kaer Maga (upper) and Kaer Maga (lower) were the same place - both in the Darklands - and I had to go back and more carefully read the gazetteer dealie about it. It always fascinates me how dry I usually find the "birds-eye view" material of the gazetteers to be compared to reading the character reactions of the people on the streets. Having Salim, Cobaru, and Gav all express their own reactions to the city in the text did wonders for making me fall... not "in love" with the place, but really understand it. Before I would have been pretty adverse to DMing a campaign in the city, but now having seen how it can affect an ancient vampire noble, a foreign visitor, and a street urchin in different ways has done a lot to warm me to it.

Speaking of the city, one thing that struck me as I reread was the Pharasmans here were pretty careful about their overlap with the necromancers. It occurred to me that a similar overlap exists with the "prophecy" branch of the religion and the troll augurs, and I wondered how much dominion over prophecy do Pharasmans claim? In a city like this, the accessibility of a troll's readings seems like it'd give them quite the leg-up on the Lady of Graves - even if she's got "fate" mixed in there somewhere too.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Regarding the scene at Canary House, having read the Boar and Rabbit ePub previous to The Redemption Engine definitely made a difference for me. Revealing them standing at the bar with their Iridian Fold chains on was a fun setup/payoff moment for me...I was like "a-ha!" and I would've been robbed of that if I hadn't read it first. instead I would've thought they were just part of the scenery, as we've seen plenty of colorful characters in Kaer Maga so far.

Speaking of which, I have to compliment the attention to detail that Sutter puts into fleshing out his locales. Kaer Maga doesn't seem like a set piece, or worse, just one more dot on a map. Even with the likes of Salim strolling through the streets you get a feel that so much is going on, as it should be. The hustle and bustle of business at usual is ever present, and we don't get the feeling that it's just adventurers, guards, merchants, and commoners walking around, as is the norm of some stories, and even modules unfortunately. Similar to Akhom Qali and Liantina Jbade from Lamasara in Death's Heretic, A'kaan is a notable character in the Kaer Maga, and despite the ethics (or lack thereof) of his career choices, he is a consummate professional and, which I believe enhances the realism of the region. As in any adventure path, the scope of the story plays an important role in its development - the more dire the implications the more drama arises from the conflicts - and Sutter pushes the boundaries of Death's Heretic by having our protagonist investigate missing souls on a much larger scale.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I forgot to say thanks, Mr. Sutter, for elaborating on the process behind the story. It's always fascinating to hear about what went into the story taking shape.

I really like what you've pointed out, Darkborn, about NPCs Salim encounters having a certain depth of character to them. It's not easy to dismiss them; whether it's the sleazy necromancer that - for some reason - was first smart enough to figure out a vampire exists and then smarty enough to convince the vampire to allow him exist or if it's a seemingly one-off character like the innkeeper, they have... this air about them that just makes the reader want to know more. I would have been down to read about Qali, Jbade, Gad, or Cobaru as the stars of their own novels!

Cobaru, especially, fascinates me. His personal story was pretty intriguing, and it really speaks to his character that he's such a stand-up guy after Sutter illustrates the type of society he came from. A first glance it seems like "oh okay he's a vampire noble that's the cliche Lestat-type character" and that he only practices restraint due to fear of reprisal either from the church or from the... um, thought-eater things. Once we're shown the vampire society that he came from, however, rife with corruption, sloth, gluttony - we see that Cobaru was actually able to leave all that behind and genuinely start a "new life" entirely. The more I thought about the arc of his life, the deeper his character got!

Full disclosure, I love bromances (across any gender, actually, but bros for the purposes here), and I have to say that Salim and Cobaru's meeting was the first time was genuinely impressed with Salim as a character. I know I commented before, on Death's Heretic, that I didn't see him as that... "deep" (so to speak): at least, not shown in his actions with any of the other characters.

When I read him meeting with Cobaru, I was enthralled with how different the two dudes seemed to act with each other, compared to how Salim has interacted with other characters he has needed information from. In Death's Heretic, Jbade and Qali were both oppositional in nature, and Salim seemed to approach them from an almost "supplicant" position; in turn, both of them demonstrated their clear superiority and broadsided him without fear. Similarly, in Redemption Engine, Salim has thus-far only antagonized or lectured, either from willful defiance of Maede, superiority (in a sense) to A'kaan, or inquisitor-style with the necromancer. With Cobaru, however, Salim is far... connected, almost? It's hard to articulate it clearly. I think a large part of it stems from the fact that Salim does not show either the supplicant status that he showed to Qali or Jbade (despite Cobaru ostensibly being far more powerful than either), nor does he show the same reckless defiance he shows Maede, nor does he treat Cobaru with the disdain he shows to the necromancer - or even the distance that he gives Gad. In turn, Cobaru seems to respond to Salim's inquiry from a place of genuine helpfulness; I mean this is an ancient vampire who outwitted an entire city of immortals. I am reasonably certain he could have just brain-wiped Salim and had him murdered in the streets an hour later. Despite the risk of sending a man away with his lintel stone, he seems to actually want to see Salim succeed.

When I read it, there was just this sense of both men appearing to try and reach out to each other from their mutual positions of isolation. By the end of it, it almost gives the impression that this conversation about Salim's job was the most open either man has been in years - and this was done to this total stranger, whose very presence was dangerous (to both parties!). When Salim parts with "I won't forget this", yes on the one hand it allows Cobaru a smart-aleck remark, but on the other it seems to really speak to how important his brief, shadowed connection with the vampire was.

maybe I'm just reading overmuch into it, but since this is a discussion I just wanted to comment on how meaty and fun this scene was. I love the moments where Salim shows his humanity, and I really admire that it was shown here in this wildly unconventional place of two lonely dudes. I have so much respect for that.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

xeose4 wrote:

When I read him meeting with Cobaru, I was enthralled with how different the two dudes seemed to act with each other, compared to how Salim has interacted with other characters he has needed information from. In Death's Heretic, Jbade and Qali were both oppositional in nature, and Salim seemed to approach them from an almost "supplicant" position; in turn, both of them demonstrated their clear superiority and broadsided him without fear. Similarly, in Redemption Engine, Salim has thus-far only antagonized or lectured, either from willful defiance of Maede, superiority (in a sense) to A'kaan, or inquisitor-style with the necromancer. With Cobaru, however, Salim is far... connected, almost? It's hard to articulate it clearly. I think a large part of it stems from the fact that Salim does not show either the supplicant status that he showed to Qali or Jbade (despite Cobaru ostensibly being far more powerful than either), nor does he show the same reckless defiance he shows Maede, nor does he treat Cobaru with the disdain he shows to the necromancer - or even the distance that he gives Gav. In turn, Cobaru seems to respond to Salim's inquiry from a place of genuine helpfulness; I mean this is an ancient vampire who outwitted an entire city of immortals. I am reasonably certain he could have just brain-wiped Salim and had him murdered in the streets an hour later. Despite the risk of sending a man away with his lintel stone, he seems to actually want to see Salim succeed.

You hit on a good point too, that with the previous NPCs that Salim had interacted with in this capacity, the scenes were not necessarily revealing of his depth as a character. Don't get me wrong, his is a great character and they are great scenes, but they served more of a purpose for investigation and exposition rather than to reveal aspects of Salim's personality. [They were also great scenes when interpreting them with skill checks and the super high die rolls they were all throwing down!]

In this particular scene with Cobaru, aside from being undead - Salim's nemeses - he is likely one of the most powerful creatures Salim may have ever encountered on his own. The "Orange Incident" from Death's Heretic, as awesome as it was in so many ways, is child's play to what a vampire as old and intelligent as Cobaru could do to him in a heartbeat, yet not only did Salim maintain his composure, he also opened up to an interacted with him more than he did with the likes of Qali or Jbade! To trust a vampire to cast a spell on him...Salim must have made a really high Sense Motive check and really believed him to risk falling victim to any number of the other powers Cobaru might have. Good stuff.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

I hope everyone has continued reading at our quarterly pace, Chapters Nine through Sixteen, and I can't wait to post about the happenings since we last left off!

Now that we're approaching the midpoint, this would be a good time for everyone to offer their Top 5 picks for the next novel so we'll all know what out next one will be by next week, have at least another week (depending if there is any web fiction that accompanies our choice) to acquire it. Using this thread is fine, but please list your choices in a separate post. Thanks everyone!

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

At the beginning of Chapter Eleven, Sutter wrote:
“Despite it being only early afternoon, the open windows disgorged laughter and music, as well as the occasional inebriated tenant. One such long-haired vagabond was currently doing some disgorging of his own against the side of a muraled wall, while a leather-clad elven woman laughed and another woman covered in red silks and blue tattoos looked on in disgust.”

The iconics Valeros, Merisiel, and Seoni with their first cameo appearance in a Pathfinder Tales novel? Well played, sir.

Also in Chapter Eleven, I like his version of the Detect Thoughts spell cast by Salim in the Common House. I’ve seen it used quite a few times in other novels, but never interpreted as fastidiously as this, especially on page 164 when Salim picks up all the random surface thoughts of everyone in the area of effect. As a GM I probably would've described it similarly if a PC cast it in a crowded room like this.

But my favorite part in the chapter is the very end when, once again, reading Boar and Rabbit prior to this paid off. At first, I made nothing of it when the covered cart pulled up to the manor and the Freemen took their hooded prisoner inside, but when Salim recognized him from the Canary House I actually whooped out loud when I realized who that was!

Managing Editor

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Darkborn wrote:
At the beginning of Chapter Eleven, Sutter wrote:
“Despite it being only early afternoon, the open windows disgorged laughter and music, as well as the occasional inebriated tenant. One such long-haired vagabond was currently doing some disgorging of his own against the side of a muraled wall, while a leather-clad elven woman laughed and another woman covered in red silks and blue tattoos looked on in disgust.”

The iconics Valeros, Merisiel, and Seoni with their first cameo appearance in a Pathfinder Tales novel? Well played, sir.

:D

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Is everyone keeping up with the readings?
If not we can slow it down, but if we're all good to go let's move on and read Chapters Seventeen to Twenty Four for discussion this Sat.

Also, please start posting your Top 5 lists for our next Pathfinder Tales novel!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Terribly sorry for my absence (Snow!) will do my best to catch up today.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I didn't think I had much to say about chapters 8-16 at first (that's why I was silent for a bit). In the interest of discussion though, I was trying to think about some things during the past week! also this pace is good for me. I can devour a pathfinder novel in about a day usually so to go slower would be pretty painful!

I also would like to place my vote for Crusader's Road, Pirate's Honor, Stalking the Beast, or one of Dave Gross's books.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Let the planar road trip begin! (I must say I miss Neila being around this time.)
So Arathuziel…
…from the cover of the novel I thought it may be a corrupted Ceyanan, and when the contract devil was introduced early on in Chapter Three my wheels started turning and I started thinking Hezechor tricked Ceyanan somehow and all of this was a plot to manipulate Salim somehow. But I was wrong.

Allow me to digress for a moment - I wonder if Salim will interrogate someone normal. Let’s see…starting in Death’s Heretic we had an exemplary criminal with a sense of humor, a mastermind madam, an imentesh protean (enough said), and an entity from the First World. Now we have a creepy alchemist with the reanimator archetype, an ancient vampire, subterranean aliens, and now a redeemed devil residing in Heaven. I’m starting to think if Salim ever sits in front of a regular human again he may not know what to do because it’s been so long, haha. But, again, Sutter deserves credit for his originality as all of those interrogation scenes were as unique and memorable as they come.
Anyway, back to the planes! As a GM they have always intrigued me, and about 10 years ago I wrote a campaign that took place exclusively in the outer planes. Needless to say, it was difficult. So many rules for movement, gravity, magical effects, alignment...every time the PCs went to a new plane they had to adapt and fortunately they had the necessary spells prepared. Despite all its trouble, I tried my best to make every plane come to life and that was where most of the fun was found, for me and my PCs. This makes me think that the author has done the same at some point, because it is a monumental task to touch so many planes and have them become so real for the readers in so little time. It’s hard enough to capture the feel of different cities in the same country like Magnimar and Korvosa in Varisia, but to capture the feel of the planes - which are comparably different worlds, let alone countries or cities - makes the task of differentiating human civilizations seem a meager task.

Being in Heaven is surreal. Moments of Dante’s Divine Comedy keep flooding back into my brain, and I can’t wait to see where all of this is going. The inkling that the forces of good are responsible for all of this is mind blowing. It makes sense though. Creatures of devotion will not stop to accomplish their goals, and the means to an end is irrelevant, believably to even the purest of alignments.

Back to shop talk for a moment - I once played a paladin in a campaign where our group was seeking a powerful artifact and were confronted by a contingent of archons bend on the same purpose. We were a good-aligned group and we offered our services to them in a show of good faith, but they refused because we were human and therefore could not be trusted. Being a paladin and making a high Diplomacy check had no bearing on them because they were instructed by their DEITY to procure the artifact at all costs and let nothing stand in their way. So, sadly, we fought them and won. I recall the resulting role-playing moment when my character was consumed with an utter sadness to have had to raise arms against other champions of good. The only alternative was to forfeit our lives, and we were doing the bidding of our deity as well so that was not an option. That was a great moment in my role-playing career, because you never think you’re going to fight all those amazing celestial creatures littering the Bestiary books, but here we were – not even in an evil-aligned campaign – fighting archons.

Expecting a showdown between Salim, an immortal inquisitor of the goddess of death, against ANGELS!? That has to be the most exciting thing I’ve been looking forward to in any Pathfinder Tales novel to date.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Darkborn wrote:

Let the planar road trip begin! (I must say I miss Neila being around this time.)

So Arathuziel…
…from the cover of the novel I thought it may be a corrupted Ceyanan, and when the contract devil was introduced early on in Chapter Three my wheels started turning and I started thinking Hezechor tricked Ceyanan somehow and all of this was a plot to manipulate Salim somehow. But I was wrong.

Haha, Darkborn, dude! Ceyanan is androgynous, while Arathuziel is like, explicitly male! While Salim refers to Ceyanan as a he (I believe), I think in Death's Heretic it was implied that Salim actually had no idea as to Ceyanan's gender (if the angel even has chosen one).

Speaking of Ceyanan, the subtle difference in the angel's interactions with Salim in Kaer Morga - versus his interactions with Salim in Death's Heretic - were another thing that made me fall in love with how much... for lack of a better term, "better" Sutter's writing is in Redemption Engine. It's another nitpicky thing that I'm sure isn't that big of a deal, but I feel it has an element of "mastery" about it and I just want to bring it up in discussion!

In Death's Heretic, Ceyanan is a needling presence in Salim's life. Throughout the book, one gets the impression that the angel goads him by pinpricks and drawing blood, in much the way one gets a stubborn mule to start walking. While the reader, if they choose, can read it as Ceyanan's interactions with Salim specifically that causes the angel to use that method (meaning that there is intelligent choice behind the angel's actions versus the angel just being a jerk), it's not in the text itself.

In Redemption Engine, that missing piece - a very, very subtle thing - is actually made explicit, and this is another one of those savory, meaty little pieces that made me enjoy this book so much. Because we the reader are shown a slightly more objective view of the angel - one where we see him poke holes in Salim's self-righteousness, alongside the occasional moment of tenderness and care - there's evidence on the page itself to let us infer, accurately, that Ceyanon truly is damn good at his job (his job being getting mules to move :P). It's not blind zeal, or a lack of understanding on his part, that makes his interactions with Salim go the way they do. If anything, it's him assuming whatever role he has judged Salim to need him to be in that moment - whether that role is that of a target for criticism, an enemy to goad him into action, or, rarely, and if he knows Salim will hear it, a source of support. Ironically, in a story about divine angels/archons interacting with mortals, it is the "atypical" angels that have the greatest understanding of mortal life (Ceyanan, an angel of death, and Arathuziel, a redeemed devil, of all things!).

I can see why your interest has been piqued by the holy/unholy outsiders in this book, DB! Even in responding to your comments here I've had to reassess that final point (about how Sutter has the "least holy" angels be the most caring/relatable of them all). That's such a great point! I know you pop in here occasionally, Mr. Sutter - was that intentional from the start, or an organic piece of the writing? The more I think about it, the more even the simple appearances of the most relatable outsiders - Maede, Arathuziel, the hound archon, Ceyanan - also have the most "humanity". Arathuziel and the hound archon are gendered and unique; in contrast, Ceyanan, while ambiguous in gender, is "soft" and careful with his touch. Even Maede, when she tears off her dress and taunts Salim, shows an understanding of mortals. A crude understanding, to be sure, but something that's there nonetheless. At the opposite end of the spectrum, the holiest and most righteous of the archons - even the crazy librarians and whatnot - are just so far removed from any understanding outside the plane of law that it's easy to see how they really, truly struggle. Moreover, we know that it's not just because they're powerful - the orca-agathion was able to cow the entire party with just a hint of the impossible wisdom in her eyes! When stepping back and looking at the book as a whole, this is a really interesting design choice!

Darkborn wrote:
This makes me think that the author has done the same at some point, because it is a monumental task to touch so many planes and have them become so real for the readers in so little time. It’s hard enough to capture the feel of different cities in the same country like Magnimar and Korvosa in Varisia, but to capture the feel of the planes - which are comparably different worlds, let alone countries or cities - makes the task of differentiating human civilizations seem a meager task.

I think this is Mr. Sutter's greatest talent. The fact that his two novels involve plane-hopping and popping between wildly different locales without seeming to completely lose the thread of the main plot is a major talent. Other authors attempt it, some successfully and some less so, but if it's not done well it can really interfere with the story.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

xeose4 wrote:
Ceyanan is androgynous, while Arathuziel is like, explicitly male! While Salim refers to Ceyanan as a he (I believe), I think in Death's Heretic it was implied that Salim actually had no idea as to Ceyanan's gender (if the angel even has chosen one).

Very true...I realized the error as soon as Arathuziel appeared. I guess the whole thing about Ceyanan being androgenous didn't really get through to me until you reminded me of that passage from Death's Heretic and I went back and reread it. Maybe something about his tone just made him seem...male...somehow to me, I don't know. But I should've known that wasn't him on the cover.

xeose4 wrote:
Arathuziel and the hound archon are gendered and unique; in contrast, Ceyanan, while ambiguous in gender, is "soft" and careful with his touch. Even Maede, when she tears off her dress and taunts Salim, shows an understanding of mortals. A crude understanding, to be sure, but something that's there nonetheless.

A part of enjoying the tour of the planes is meeting its denizens, and there is no shortage of the here whatsover! It's so well done, I couldn't agree with you more about how it's all about the design choices the author makes throughout. (And only Sutter would give a hound archon a desk job, haha. So good.)

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

As we make our final push to finish the novel by the end of the week, let’s lock in our next novel so we can all acquire it as soon as possible. Here are my choices:

#1: The Wizard’s Mask by Ed Greenwood – As the book club began with authors from The Emerald Spire superdungeon, it would be nice to conclude with the last one remaining.

#2: Nightglass by Liane Merciel – I think it’s time we gave the female authors a spotlight, and what better (and ironic) way to start with that than with a story that takes place in one of the darkest regions in Golarion – Nidal, the Shadowy Servitor State. *Cue ominious music here.*

#3: Skinwalkers by Wendy N. Wagner – I am BIG fan of the Vikings television show, so this appeals to me as it talks place in the Ironbound Archipelago with Ulfen human raiders!

#4: The Winter Witch by Elaine Cunningham – It’s freezing outside. So appropriate. Enough said.

#5: Prince of Wolves by Dave Gross – If we are ever going to attepmt the massive undertaking of chronologically reading the many web fictions, ePubs, and novels from one of premier authors of Pathfinder Tales we need to start soon because his new novel is being released this summer, so this could be an arduous, but fun adventure for us to all go on over the next few months until then…


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Darkborn wrote:
(And only Sutter would give a hound archon a desk job, haha. So good.)

Dah! I didn't even think of the humor of that! Haha I love these gems these discussions unearth!

I am cool with Winter Witch, Nightglass (since I read Nightblade I have been meaning to read the first one), or Skinwalkers. Since we just did a series, we might break it up by doing another short one before Dave Gross's longer piece? I'd also be game for Wizard's Mask if we only spend a week or two on it... I haven't read it, but I think there's a definite grain of truth to the reviews it has (tbh the low stars have piqued my interest so I would participate in discussion).


I vote for starting the entire Radovan/Varrian series in preparation for his new book.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

xeose4 wrote:
I'd also be game for Wizard's Mask if we only spend a week or two on it... I haven't read it, but I think there's a definite grain of truth to the reviews it has (tbh the low stars have piqued my interest so I would participate in discussion).

Trying not to read spoilers in the process, from what I've gathered about The Wizard's Mask is that it isn't necessarily the writing, but the mechanics behind it that may be flawed, as in some of the things that happen don't quite adhere to the rules system as much as the other PT novels. What I think some of those critics don't fully comprehend is that this is Ed Greenwood - he has more than enough "street cred" to do whatever he wants, and we would be remiss to not let ourselves go along with it no matter how hardcore rules lawyers and/or power gamers were are. If anyone has played any of his modules, his 1st-edition style shines through in his attention to detail, and although that may not translate as well in the current Pathfinder system, I can't imagine Ed Greenwood writing anything bad.

But I'm up for anything as our next novel, so please keep the suggestions coming everyone!

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xeose4 wrote:


Speaking of Ceyanan, the subtle difference in the angel's interactions with Salim in Kaer Morga - versus his interactions with Salim in Death's Heretic - were another thing that made me fall in love with how much... for lack of a better term, "better" Sutter's writing is in Redemption Engine. It's another nitpicky thing that I'm sure isn't that big of a deal, but I feel it has an element of "mastery" about it and I just want to bring it up in discussion!

In Death's Heretic, Ceyanan is a needling presence in Salim's life. Throughout the book, one gets the impression that the angel goads him by pinpricks and drawing blood, in much the way one gets a stubborn mule to start walking. While the reader, if they choose, can read it as Ceyanan's interactions with Salim specifically that causes the angel to use that method (meaning that there is intelligent choice behind the angel's actions versus the angel just being a jerk), it's not in the text itself.

In Redemption Engine, that missing piece - a very, very subtle thing - is actually made explicit, and this is another one of those savory, meaty little pieces that made me enjoy this book so much. Because we the reader are shown a slightly more objective view of the angel - one where we see him poke holes in Salim's self-righteousness, alongside the occasional moment of...

I think Ceyanan would deeply approve of your description, especially the getting-the-mule-to-move part. :)

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Not that I really get a vote (or should), but I'll throw in a small nudge for _Winter Witch_ because I agree, there's something special about reading that book while it's still cold out.

Silver Crusade

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Liane Merciel wrote:
Not that I really get a vote (or should), but I'll throw in a small nudge for _Winter Witch_ because I agree, there's something special about reading that book while it's still cold out.

And adorably evil tantrum throwing witches :3

(I swear I will at the least post soemthing by the final, work hasn't give me a chance to sit down and reread the book.)

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Liane Merciel wrote:
Not that I really get a vote (or should), but I'll throw in a small nudge for _Winter Witch_ because I agree, there's something special about reading that book while it's still cold out.

Welcome to the PTBC!

If you'll be reading with us, then of course you get a vote!
Or you could just manipulate us from afar like a true Umbral Court Agent, it's totally up to you. (As you may have noticed, Mr. Sutter chimes in from time to time and it's always appreciated, and likewise I think I can speak for everyone by saying we'll all be glad to have you with us too.)

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

I'm sorry, but I wasn't able to finish the readings for today - my group has been playing Giantslayer Part 1 since Thursday and we probably won't be done with the module until tomorrow night, so I'll try to finish reading and post by Monday. Please feel free to open the discussion without me and I'll join as soon as I can. Have a great weekend everyone!


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Does that mean that I can finally talk about the entire thing? :P

Before I jump into new stuff, I'm going to prattle on for a bit about some loose ends I forgot to wrap up.

Finishing the thought about the orca agathion in my earlier post: I meant that Salim, Roshad, and Bors were cowed by her gaze alone, in a way that they, at no point, ever felt towards any other creature they encountered in the outer realms. I thought this was just such a subtly awesome line, because it could convey simply that she is the outsider they value most due to her NG alignment (and they themselves are N or NG), it could mean that - again - Sutter is illustrating how foreign mortal life is to LG archons, or it could simply mean that she just has an entirely different temperament than the other outsiders he's shown us thus-far.

In talking about chapters 8-16: I thought I didn't have anything to say, but I had some time this weekend so I flipped through and actually found some highlights that I thought to make note of again.

1: the caulborn are infinitely cooler than any ilithid, because imo they actually fit into a setting due to their... just sheer bizarreness. it seems possible for them to be LE, LN, LG, N, or potentially other alignments, and actually integrate with the societies around them (or at least, present the possibility), since their goal isn't the straight-up consumption, domination of, and destruction of humanoid brains. I could never see the ilithid as anything but a plague that literally every sentient creature would immediately seek to destroy - simply for the fact that the ilithid would devour them in a heartbeat! also I was reminded of page 150 and the ominous note that "someone - or something! - was right about something". I reread that again and thought "oh man, I sure hope Salim gets to go on a quest to rescue Cobaru because maaaaaan that would suuuuuuuck..."

2: siding with Roshad in the compound was... well, to me, it was just one of the weakest parts of the story (not that it ruined the story or anything, but it wasn't a smooth transition). the main reason for this is just - in reflecting on how Salim is with the Caulborn, with Cobaru, with Ceyanan, with Maeda - even with Gav, in like, 3 pages preceeding this... it just doesn't seem like him. At all. I mean I could see him definitely entertaining the notion, and after restraining the guy and having a heart-to-heart FIRST, then sure, definitely. But not the way this plays out.

I think the main thing is that even had Salim still done this same thing, it'd work, but not with the preceding pages where we see him be waspish even to Gav (who's been nothing but awesome to Salim). at THIS place, in THIS way, with me not knowing who Roshad and Bors were the first time I read it... I remember my reaction then, because it was the same this time; why, Salim? why are you siding with this utter stranger?

it's niggling, and I mean in the grand scheme it does relatively little to detract from the book, but in the context of what's framed it, I think it's just... a weak point, that's all.

3: rereading the Irridian Fold stuff that Bors recites really amused me, because on the one hand I was like "haha lawlz bors, so wait - omg what if a woman who does this could become psychically linked with every one of her kids??" and then I was also contemplating how they would respond to someone like Anevia Tirablade from Wrath of the Righteous - would they tell her that since she was born a man that her "soul is male" (ala Roshad's words)? or if it was the reverse, and she went from female to male, would she then be able to szerik it up? what if it was an intersex character, or a race that's like some seahorses, and can incubate the eggs and is actually the one that "gives birth"? hah, it was neat to think about Roshad and Bors actually, potentially, being completely wrong. it's always awesome when characters don't have the final say, or lay down the rules unequivocally. of course, I don't know what Mr. Sutter's final say is on this, but I like to think that those questions would stump those two guys.


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Now that old business is out of the way! Chapters 25-31

I have to say, this phenomenal section right here is the entire reason I've been so loyal to the Pathfinder Book Club idea. I loved this book, from the build-up, character arcs, to the finale. So I'm a little giddy over this part; pls excuse my fanboying if it gets too much.

#1First off, opening with Salim in Hell was a treat, but nothing was nearly as amazing as the devils he encounters. At first Hell seems the same as the Abyss, but then the cruel - but hilarious - humor of Apulminas and Hezechor illustrated the perfect difference. And, perhaps ironically, again illustrated to me just how good a job Mr. Sutter did with making the archons seem so distant, so impossible and foriegn to moral ideals that I genuinely liked even a bulbous, evil, disgusting librarian demon over the archons. It was pretty rad.

I also have to admit that I have a soft spot a mile wide for clever villains, so when Hezechor exchanged barbs with Salim, I was cheering and grinning from ear to ear (of course, it helps that contract devils are wicked hot muscle dudes and I was having a serious case of the crave). The whole exchange was beyond perfect for illustrating just how cocksure, manipulative, arrogant, and sneaky devils - particularly those that interact with mortals - can be. I loved it. Just absolutely loved it (and Hezechor. <3 that evil bastard so much).

What really sealed the deal for me though was something that I'd complained about regarding the previous book: in that one, no one ever challenges Salim about his faith. Here, it was just so meaningful that Salim gets "tempted" by a ... fall-demon (I am blanking on the name completely, sorry). Anyways, it just says so much about his level of faith that he's targeted - and more importantly, he doesn't even realize what it means! Fall-devils aren't tossed about blindly, sent to tempt alter boys and young ministers fresh out of seminary school; they're big deals and meant to cause mighty falls! that one would single out Salim means there is soooooo much more depth to his faith than he could ever realize... and that lack of realization just... it blows me away! where before, in Death's Heretic, it might have been something... guessed at(?), here, again, Mr. Sutter subtly interjects it into the text in a masterful way. The implications aren't spelled out for you, it's not like someone comes and just lectures the reader on what it means, no. Mr. Sutter just places this delicious dinner in front of the reader and then just sits back (with bulging eyes, in the corner apparently ;P), and then waits for the diner to notice the subtle interplay of each individual spice. I loved it, loved it so dang much, that Salim just walks away from this encounter still completely blind to what it actually means that this stuff happened. That utter lack of insight into himself is one of the most amazing character flaws one could give a deeply devout, deeply spiritual character.

#2 It's hard to be more positive after that amount of fanboy squealing, but the next part, with Maedora and Salim, was, if possible, even better. Like, everything about it has the marks of Mr. Sutter's normal plane-hopping adventures, but what set this apart... even... knowing how he has used plane-hopping in the past... was what I thought about at the end of the book, when Salim more-or-less reaffirms his "connection" (lawlz, salim, I know you meant faith) with Pharasma.

See, what happens here is Salim lands "at the spark of creation" - this swirling vortex where things are going on. It's barren, devoid of life. He is cut off from Golarion, cut off even from the goddess. There is nothing but essentially void. Accompanying him is this powerful psychopomp matron, whom he is forced to reconcile with and come to understand... just as she is forced to reconcile and come to understand him. Then she carries him until such a point that she and provide sustenance, wherein she continues to care for and nurture him until he is able to both negotiate with the proteans/aeons (I forget which it was) and learn the destiny of what was happening back in the mortal world (by giving a dire warning to the aeon what was occurring and letting the creature glimpse a potential future).

Pretty par for the course right? nothing especial about that... except this is Salim we're talking about here. The inquisitor of the goddess death... and prophecy and birth. Salim, in undertaking this journey, physically and spiritually, cycles through all three aspects of his goddess!! He experiences a minor death in being cut off from the goddess, from Golarion, in almost dying of thirst while lost in this barren void. A powerful, giant female carries him, protecting him until such a time when she can find him food... at which point she provides him liquid sustenance! She continues to watch over him, until he reaches the Spiral (or whatever it was), where the aeons flock and gather - and Salim offers them a dire warning based on knowledge of events they did not know of, which is all prophecy truly is! Then he and Maedora are "reborn" as they are spun back into Golarion, with Salim being weak and helpless for a while as he's - again - nursed to health.

The whole section is a metaphor, with the man who denies his faith at every turn, denies Pharasma every chance he gets, willingly undergoing all these trials that would be clear parallels to the path that any normal priest of the faith would take! like... oh my god. WOW. I mean, maybe it's just me and I'm way too cynical, and everyone else is just rolling their eyes like "yeah we get it, it's not as special as you're saying", but this is a level of subtle awesome that I did not expect from any Pathfinder book, in any way. I mean holy bananas, I think many authors would simply have Salim just speak face to face with pharasma, or an avatar, and that alone would be "oh look the priest leveled up" or something. But no, Salim goes on a metaphorical journey through all the things that his goddess represents!! like my mind is blown away by just how unbelievably perfect this is.

Mr. Sutter, you can answer this at your own leisure (i.e. when the club members have all chimed in and we've moved on if you want), but I swear to god I will never, ever write more effusive praise about anything you do if you don't at some point tell me whether or not this was intentional.

#3 Finally, the evolution of Salim's faith - from where he opens Death's Heretic by referring to Pharasma with this very childish, very tantrum-like "B~%** Goddess" title to the end of this book here... I mean it's like night and day. I've made no secret of how I was not particularly impressed with him in Death's Heretic (and this is just my own judgement of him as being not fully developed in that book), but by the end of Redemption Engine I was just floored by how much respect I had for the guy at the end of this journey. Heh, I mean, I'd still side with Ceyanan any day, but I actually could see why Ceyanan, why Pharasma, why Cobaru and Gav and Roshad and Bors, even Maedora, all come to like - and more importantly - respect him. The guy has many hidden depths (even from himself :P), and that shift in tone from Death's Heretic to here, imo, makes him a powerfully compelling character. This Salim, this guy who's mulling things over and so markedly different from the impulsive young man he was before... this guy is a character worthy of a series!

Managing Editor

xeose4 wrote:
Mr. Sutter, you can answer this at your own leisure (i.e. when the club members have all chimed in and we've moved on if you want), but I swear to god I will never, ever write more effusive praise about anything you do if you don't at some point tell me whether or not this was intentional.

But I look so much *smarter* in your interpretations! :D

When you're talking about Salim's growth as a character in this book, and the additional challenges to/explorations of his lack of faith, that's absolutely intentional. To me, all adventure aside, the heart of Death's Heretic was learning who Salim is and why. In The Redemption Engine, then, I wanted to actively challenge those beliefs and force him to show a bit more of himself and grow as a person. At the start of Death's Heretic, he's been in a Batman-esque self-loathing loner situation for a long time, which shows itself in his caustic relationship with Ceyanan/Pharasma. But by the end, despite the fact that he leaves Neila behind, she's managed to break away enough of his armor that he's now vulnerable, and a little more self-aware. That set the stage for what I was honestly afraid was too subtle a character arc in Redemption Engine—from seeing himself as slave to seeing himself as a necessary part of a greater system. I'm glad folks found it as satisfying as I did!

As for the Pharasmin symbolism during his and Maedora's banishment, though—I'll answer flat-out for once and say that was totally a happy accident, and I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. So thank you. :)


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I have started catching up on my PF novels...but it seems you guys are picking the books that are not in order of my reading.

Currently I am reading I just started The Crusader's Road. After that is Skinwalkers. Maybe the timing will work out if that is the next book.

I do really want to participate...and can't wait for you guys to get to Pirate's Honor and Pirate's Promise.

Liberty's Edge

I'm really far behind, but Saturday is a free day, so I'm catching up! What chapter will you be on this Saturday?

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

fine_young_misanthrope wrote:
I'm really far behind, but Saturday is a free day, so I'm catching up! What chapter will you be on this Saturday?

We were actually supposed to finish last weekend, but I'm the one who's behind this time. Last week I played the first module of the Giantslayer AP in an 80-hour marathon session, and this weekend I'm moving to an new apartment so - again - I apologize to everyone for not contributing this week.

But I promise to get back to posting this weekend, and we should decide on the next novel then too, so keep the voting coming everyone. Right now there are single votes all around, but as soon as we start getting repeat votes we'll lock it in.

Managing Editor

Darkborn wrote:

Last week I played the first module of the Giantslayer AP in an 80-hour marathon session

Whoa. That's hardcore. O_O


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James Sutter wrote:

But I look so much *smarter* in your interpretations! :D

When you're talking about Salim's growth as a character in this book, and the additional challenges to/explorations of his lack of faith, that's absolutely intentional. To me, all adventure aside, the heart of Death's Heretic was learning who Salim is and why. In The Redemption Engine, then, I wanted to actively challenge those beliefs and force him to show a bit more of himself and grow as a person. At the start of Death's Heretic, he's been in a Batman-esque self-loathing loner situation for a long time, which shows itself in his caustic relationship with Ceyanan/Pharasma. But by the end, despite the fact that he leaves Neila behind, she's managed to break away enough of his armor that he's now vulnerable, and a little more self-aware. That set the stage for what I was honestly afraid was too subtle a character arc in Redemption Engine—from seeing himself as slave to seeing himself as a necessary part of a greater system. I'm glad folks found it as satisfying as I did!

As for the Pharasmin symbolism during his and Maedora's banishment, though—I'll answer flat-out for once and say that was totally a happy accident, and I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. So thank you. :)

I think it's only fair to share what I walked away with, given how much I've enjoyed your books! As someone who loves to read, I found it a real treat just to see the evolution in the mechanical aspects of your writing over the series. I also love that you took a gamble on subtlety; in my opinion, it was one of the best possible things that could be done for this series because like I said above, it's incredibly unique. It truly does make Salim an unforgettable character - and more importantly, in a way that adds material for those people who are interested in that stuff or want to read more deeply into the text on the page (rather than leaving it entirely up to the reader to interpret their own endings). Thank you for giving an answer about your creative process for this; again, as a lifelong reader, it's so cool to have your participation in this thread and see what goes into the other side of the story.

As a final note, I know I can sound abrasive and I really do not mean to sound so final. I forgot to add this typical bit earlier, but I apologize again if my fanboying ruffled any feathers (on the part of anyone reading the thread). I get excited and sometimes it's hard to contain it, but I still recognize that my opinions are just dumb opinions and I'm totally cool if anyone completely disagrees :)


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Well there's no sign of DB so I'll pick up the discussion.

Last week of discussion: means that the whole book is up for grabs and any/all spoilers galore! If you're reading along, read it a while ago, or catching up now, anything goes. Anyone can participate and we welcome the new voices. We'll have probably a week here for expected replies, but that doesn't have to limit it to this week alone.

Some book clubs do more guided discussion. If that helps some people get going, I can field some questions:

#1 Given some of what's been discussed in the thread so far, how do people see/react to Salim's character arc? What could be next, what do people feel is still missing?

I can say that I am still immensely curious to see how Salim would react to Ceyanan taking things a step further and saying to him that Pharasma not only didn't kill his wife, but that she also gave her a long and happy life as well. If Salim truly loved her, he would realize what a gift his faith truly provided.

#2 What differences have people noticed between this and Death's Heretic? Or are there themes that people just love to pieces?

I've spoken a bit about this so I'll let someone else take the floor if they want.

#3 Insert your own thing you walked away with from the book (or something that was prompted by this thread!).

Voting on the next book

The next book hasn't been decided so be at some point this week to say which you'd like to see added to the book club next. So far it looks like there's quite a few options. Please vote for whatever book you'd like if you're aiming to be a part of the discussion! I don't think Darkborn or myself are particularly wedded to any one book.


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My vote is Pirate's Honor followed by Pirate's Promise. I just read Pirate's Promise and I have been dying to talk about it.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

xeose4 wrote:
Well there's no sign of DB so I'll pick up the discussion.

Thank you so much for picking up the slack, I'm still in the process of moving and all the St. Patrick's Day festivities going in in South Philadelphia are making things even more difficult with traffic and parking. Don't even get me started on the drunken revelry in the streets - it's like Cayden Cailean handed a flagon to everyone in the city.

xeose4 wrote:
#1 Given some of what's been discussed in the thread so far, how do people see/react to Salim's character arc? What could be next, what do people feel is still missing?

The character arc of a protagonist can handled in so many ways, of course, but before that process even begins a writer has to consider the longevity of the protagonist even before it's fully conceived. It's impossible to tell how successful a novel is going to be, so a good writer’s process would be to write the initial character arc to completion, but leave a few loose threads behind in case there is more to come. I think Sutter has done this successfully. In Death's Heretic, Salim's character arc developed with the assistance of Neila as she brought him back to reality, in a way, by showing him that even an amateur could be of great benefit, and despite all of his experience and longevity, he cannot do everything by himself. She made him care about someone for the first time since his wife, and that revitalized him. Doing the bedding of the goddess of death is no walk in the park, and Salim has been so cynical so long that despite him not wanting to feel much of anything anymore, he actually really needed to. The difference between "went" and "need" is a crucial element of developing a protagonist in three-act screenwriting structure, and despite the criticisms of Salim in Death's Heretic, I think he is a great protagonist in that regard.

We have seen him develop even further in The Redemption Engine, but instead of Neila he is "accompanied" by some serious competition in Maedora. She is not just another seasoned Inquisitor like Salim, she is a psychopomp who was essentially created for this specific role, not a former atheist who fell into the predicament that is his servitude to Pharasma. No longer could Salim be the brooding rebel - now he had to step up and prove his worth, not as just for his benefactors, but to himself as well. We have seen, time and time again, the grizzled veteran who refuses to accept a "partner" and this part of his character pays off for the second time with Maedora as it did with Neila.

I can't say that I feel like anything is missing, as I am in anticipation for more to come and I have faith that Sutter's writing will not leave anything blatantly unresolved, but what I would like to see next, if there is indeed going to be a third installment, is a commitment by Salim to either finally accept his role, embrace Pharasma, and fully realize the magnitude of is powers or to reject her entirely, face off with Ceyanan for his freedom, and return to his life as an atheist, yet an enlightened one who has actually witnessed the powers of the gods.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Let's keep more votes coming in! So far we only have one vote for each of several titles, except for The Winter Witch with two votes, which will be in the lead until anyone else votes otherwise...

Managing Editor

xeose4 wrote:
I know I can sound abrasive

Not at all! People being passionate about one's book is pretty much the best thing ever. :D


I vote for #2 because it is both an amazing fun book and yes, women writers need some Pathfinder fan love as well.

Sczarni Order of the Amber Die

Okay everyone, it looks like we're going with #2: Nightglass and Nightblade, and I believe the ePub takes place between both novels so we'll go in order. (Sorry Liane, we're no longer in winter and despite the recent weather it seems we're not going with your vote, but instead YOU get the spotlight so I hope your stick around!)

Again, I apologize for not being present of late, all too often does life get in the way of the things we actually want to do with it! It's short notice so let's give everyone a chance to get their hands on the novel over the next week, then this Saturday I'll check in with everyone and I'll post the readings for the following week. In the meantime, if there's anything else anyone would like to add about The Redemption Engine before we leave James Sutter to get working on the third installment (fingers crossed) now would be a great time!

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