Thornkeep Level 3 [Spoilers / Rant]


Adventures


So, I don't really care if people respond or not. Probably not even going to check back, but I just feel that this needs to be said.

Screw Mi-go, and the Visitant in particular.

15 charges of invisibility on a wand, 3 attacks that automatically get a grapple attempt on hit, hit AGAIN on a successful grapple, and apply 2d6 sneak attack dice EACH. Then ability score damage on all 3 of those grapples. Then the ability to summon monster 4 in a level 3-4 dungeon.

This son of a gun could have one-shot our barbarian if it jumped him from invis. Our swashbuckler gets caught in its triple death grip. A) HOW does one creature grapple 3 times? I have two hands but I only grapple once while using both of them. B) What kind of b#~~~~+# AC does this thing have that a swashbuckler can't knife it while it's flat-footed with bless and a DEX of +4? C) What does it freaking do to my body that I need a Resurrection spell instead of a Raise Dead at level freaking four? D) Our spellcaster was useless because this thing has immunity to cold, resist electricity and fire 10, and DR 5/slashing. That's one of our biggest sources of damage and this thing is largely immune to an entire party member.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

My party ran into a wall when we met him too. I had to burn my Moment of Glory boon to auto-stabilize thanks to being unconcious and invisible.


I am probably going to run this soon, and this is one of the fights in particular that I am excited about.

I would like to know about a few things:


  • I assume your are speaking as a player and not the GM. Are you sure the GM ran as designed? Just curious ...
  • What is your party size / makeup?
  • Visitant is a CL8 encounter. Did you your group start the Enigma Vaults as level 3 or 4? What level were you when you fought the visitant? I would assume a level 3 party is toast. A level 4 party will be mostly toast, especially if caught off guard.
  • The tactics section suggests to go invisible, summon monsters, then flank the healers as the primary tactic. To me, following this strategy would slightly play down the CL8, which may be the intended purpose of this tactic as written (i.e. I don't think the authors intended GMs to go "all out" with this creature).
  • The morale section notes that the visitant is primarily concerned with surviving (and pursuing its own plans) and flees when it hits 30 hit points. I believe this also plays down the CL8'ness of the encounter. Did your group get to this point? Did your GM ignore this?
  • It is only a cleric 3, so it should be making UMD checks - though it does have a pretty high UMD (maybe scaling its bonus down would be a good mod?).


Josh.Ingle wrote:

So, I don't really care if people respond or not. Probably not even going to check back, but I just feel that this needs to be said.

Screw Mi-go, and the Visitant in particular.

15 charges of invisibility on a wand, 3 attacks that automatically get a grapple attempt on hit, hit AGAIN on a successful grapple, and apply 2d6 sneak attack dice EACH. Then ability score damage on all 3 of those grapples. Then the ability to summon monster 4 in a level 3-4 dungeon.

This son of a gun could have one-shot our barbarian if it jumped him from invis. Our swashbuckler gets caught in its triple death grip. A) HOW does one creature grapple 3 times? I have two hands but I only grapple once while using both of them. B) What kind of b!$$#++# AC does this thing have that a swashbuckler can't knife it while it's flat-footed with bless and a DEX of +4? C) What does it freaking do to my body that I need a Resurrection spell instead of a Raise Dead at level freaking four? D) Our spellcaster was useless because this thing has immunity to cold, resist electricity and fire 10, and DR 5/slashing. That's one of our biggest sources of damage and this thing is largely immune to an entire party member.

Yup, played this in Society as a lvl 4 Oathbound Paladin with a lvl 4 Skald, a lvl 3 paladin, and a lvl 3 warpriest. Would have been a TPK minus the warpriest had Sanctuary on and the Visitant failed his Will check to attack him. One paladin was on his back almost the whole fight, the Skald made a valiant effort at flanking it to help me hit it with my multiple Smites, but in the end it literally picked us apart and just mopped the floor with us. I think the level scaling on this is a bit off, especially for Society play. Sure if you are playing this with your weekend group where everyone knows your role, then it might be beatable, but PUGing it in a play format where people are used to there being a fairly obtainable victory condition regardless of level, it needs to have its level range increased, or that thing scaled down ALOT.

I'm not mad at my GM, he played it perfectly. Exactly as it was meant to be played. I'm mad that Paizo put this module as intended for levels 3-5. Level 3's would get smoked in this. Level 4's struggle with results skewed towards lose. Level 5's would still have quite a difficult time. By level 4, in Society, you are at a very vulnerable place, because you won't have the gold for a Rez, nor the Prestige for a recovery/raise dead.

RIP Decimus, Ausck, and Skalidor


PCs can always run away. If they can't recognize a threat, then they should die. The weak should be culled.

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