Dev Blog: Campfires, Base Camps, Smallholdings and You


Pathfinder Online

CEO, Goblinworks

We published a new dev blog about Persistent Structures!

Goblin Squad Member

BONUS BLOG!

Edit: that all looks great, can't wait to see how it all turns out in two weeks! What will the range be for linking smallholding bank vaults to settlement vaults?

CEO, Goblinworks

There will be specific plots in the Settlement Hex for Smallholdings.

Goblin Squad Member

Quote:
The amount restored varies according to the type and plus of the Campfire, with lower level Campfires just restoring a few score Power, while the highest level ones can restore upwards of a thousand.

The way this is worded leads me to believe that a Campfire has a pool of Power points that the players can draw from until it is emptied. Is that how it works? Or can twenty characters all restore their Power at a Simple Camp but only a small amount each (since it's a low level type of camp)?

Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:
Quote:
The amount restored varies according to the type and plus of the Campfire, with lower level Campfires just restoring a few score Power, while the highest level ones can restore upwards of a thousand.
The way this is worded leads me to believe that a Campfire has a pool of Power points that the players can draw from until it is emptied. Is that how it works? Or can twenty characters all restore their Power at a Simple Camp but only a small amount each (since it's a low level type of camp)?

Reading the blog led me to believe that you click it once and get a certain amount of power. Then a cool down timer of two hours goes on you where you can't regain power in this way again.

Goblinworks Game Designer

Camps can restore their power to anyone and everyone that can use them within the window it's there for. But you personally cannot then rest at a camp again until your timer expires, so you might want to hold out for a really nice camp that will restore more of your missing Power rather than using the first one you see.

Goblin Squad Member

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Can already see it now. Camp envy. "My camp is bigger than yours."

Goblin Squad Member

I'm really glad that when these originally became available for sale, I was too poor to buy both a Base Camp and a Smallhold. Having bought both and finding out now that I could only use one at a time would have sucked - the ingame economy won't be robust enough to really support the sale of these items for ingame goods for quite some time, I think.

I do wish I had bought a Smallholding over a Base Camp - but c'est la vie.

Does anyone want to buy a base camp off me? :D?

EDIT: OR MAYBE I AM MISREADING THIS

Quote:
You can only have one Base Camp or Smallhold active anywhere in the game at a time.

Does this mean that you can have one of each active at a time, or one of either? Can I have both a Base Camp and a Smallhold deployed at the same time?

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

"If deployed near a Settlement, the Smallhold’s vault access is the same as the bank in that Settlement, so you can get to your vault when you go to your Smallhold."

This mean that what is in the bank is in the Smallhold vault and vice versa?
I don't see any advantage in having a separate vault if it is the same as the bank vault.
I was interested in placing a smallhold in a settlement as a way to get a separate storage space for those items that I want to keep and that will only clutter my bank deposit (like the researched prophecies, recipes I can't jet use and so on).

Sharing the Base Camps storage with your party mean that:
- as soon as I log off it will not be available
- I can't use it to trade items with other characters in the same account.

that seem fairly big limitations.

Goblin Squad Member

As I read this blog there will be no Shared Vault for the Smallholding for the party or the Company that the owner belongs too?

If you just use the Settlements Vault per individual(when your Smallhold is deployed near a settlement) and can regen power in the tavern there too, what is the advantage of this 200 dollar item?

I hope shared storage for Companies is planned, that's when I will buy one. I realize this requires extra tech, especially if you want the owner to be able to set priviliges for access and such. I am sure many (crafting) Companies would want this, so they can more easily share the goodies between them.

Crowdforge +1 from me!

Goblin Squad Member

Tyncale wrote:

As I read this blog there will be no Shared Vault for the Smallholding for the party or the Company that the owner belongs too?

If you just use the Settlements Vault per individual(when your Smallhold is deployed near a settlement) and can regen power in the tavern there too, what is the advantage of this 200 dollar item?

I hope shared storage for Companies is planned, that's when I will buy one. I realize this requires extra tech, especially if you want the owner to be able to set priviliges for access and such. I am sure many (crafting) Companies would want this, so they can more easily share the goodies between them.

Crowdforge +1 from me!

I agree with Tyncale. What is the value of having a smallhold at the settlement? I'm really not seeing it.

Goblin Squad Member

I think Shared Storage for parties is too complicated since parties are such fleeting and fickle entities that go in and out of existance constantly. However I am really expecting this for Companies.

But Company-tech is still in its infancy, so I have hope this is slated for the future.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Just a thought, but would base camps and holdings not be a good option for trading goods between characters on the same account?

for example, Say my DT is a pure gatherer and my Main a crafter, if I had a basecamp I could simply gather on my DT then move to Basecamp and empty my resources into the vault, then log on my Main and move to the camp to withdraw the resources so that I could work on them.

On another semi related point, how does base camps work with characters and accounts? would purchasing a base camp from the store grant all my characters a base camp or only one? can I switch ownership if it is just one?

Goblin Squad Member

They are an actual item (deed) and can be sold/traded through the AH. But not looted. So you can transfer the item to any of your characters but you get only one. At least that is how I understand it.

Quote:
Base Camps are premium items that can be purchased through the Goblinworks store. Initially they are represented by a deed item. These deeds are never consumed or destroyed; they may be sold or traded but they can never be taken against your will. They cannot be sold in the Auction House while on cooldown.

Goblin Squad Member

FMS Quietus wrote:
Tyncale wrote:

As I read this blog there will be no Shared Vault for the Smallholding for the party or the Company that the owner belongs too?

If you just use the Settlements Vault per individual(when your Smallhold is deployed near a settlement) and can regen power in the tavern there too, what is the advantage of this 200 dollar item?

I hope shared storage for Companies is planned, that's when I will buy one. I realize this requires extra tech, especially if you want the owner to be able to set priviliges for access and such. I am sure many (crafting) Companies would want this, so they can more easily share the goodies between them.

Crowdforge +1 from me!

I agree with Tyncale. What is the value of having a smallhold at the settlement? I'm really not seeing it.

It doesn't say "at", it says "near". I guess the usefulness depends on the definition of "near".

For instance, last night my party were fighting 2 hexes from the nearest setllement. I picked up a good recipe and decided it was best to run it back to the vault rather than risk losing it. I had to run 2 hexes there and 2 back. If we could have placed a Smallhold in that hex (I think unlikely, since it was a monster home hex) then I would not have had to go very far at all. Even if we could have placed it in the adjacent hex, it would have saved me a run.

Now, if only I could find a use for Rogue Maneuvers and actually used up some power occasionally.

Goblin Squad Member

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I believe 'near' is 'in the same hex as', in this case.

Goblin Squad Member

That doesn't make sense when combined with the description. We don't have encounter areas inside settlement hexes. I imagine near means within 1 or possibly 2 hexes.

I agree, there seems little or no point in putting a smallhold in a settlement which already has a vault and a tavern.

If "near" is actually 3-5 hexes, then putting a smallhold in a crafting town when your base is not a crafting town would be worthwhile.

The whole "Smallhold shares a vault with the settlement" idea seems to break the "physical goods are in the vault that you put them in" paradigm.

Goblin Squad Member

Yes, I am sure that if you want to use the Vault of the settlement with your Smallholding, it has to be in the same hex. There was talk about how that grassy ring around the settlements would be the place where Companies could put their Smallholds. Up to 50, I believe.

Being able to use Settlement storage 2-3 hexes away from it would also defy their policy of "people need to transport stuff in PFO". Some heavy escalations can be pretty near Settlements: this way a Company could safely funnel their loot across 3 hexes directly into the settlement Vault.

Even so, I am mostly interested in Shared storage, not so much in storage closer to where I am fighting.

So actually it does not break the paradigm of "all stuff you store is locally" if what I think is true, namely that the Smallholds that share the settlements Vault are in the same hex, and no further then 50 yards away from it.

It's the "near is 3-5 hexes away" that breaks the paradigm.

The fact that you can store stuff in a Base camp, but *still* have to transport it to the safety of a Settlements Vault also is in line with this.

Goblin Squad Member

Ok, I clicked through to the smallhold description in the GW store, so it looks like you are correct about being in the same hex. There's other interesting stuff in there not mentioned in the blog.

Quote:

* Digital premium item

* First availability scheduled for Month 2 of Early Enrollment (eta February 2015)
* Enables characters to regain Power
* Provides local storage
* Can be used as a soulbinding point
* Private chat channel for characters accessing the Smallholding
* Access storage of Settlements in same hex as Smallholding
* Limited space available for Smallholding deployment (first come, first deployed)

Soulbinding? Wow! (Or do I mean EQ ;) ). I guess this means you will rez at a safe place rather than a risky shrine.

Private chat channel?

Goblin Squad Member

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FMS Quietus wrote:
What is the value of having a smallhold at the settlement? I'm really not seeing it.

If your reputation is too low to actually enter the Settlement, or you have a flag that will cause the Thornguard to attack you, it might good to have a Smallholding in the Settlement hex's outer ring that you can access without agro-ing the TG. Assuming that's where they go, which I think it is.

Goblin Squad Member

Quijenoth wrote:
Just a thought, but would base camps and holdings not be a good option for trading goods between characters on the same account?

If the presumptions about Party vs Company are correct, then no, since it's impossible to put two characters on the same account into one party. If by "Party" they meant "Company," then yes.

Goblin Squad Member

Quijenoth wrote:
On another semi related point, how does base camps work with characters and accounts? would purchasing a base camp from the store grant all my characters a base camp or only one? can I switch ownership if it is just one?

Since it will be a tradeable/saleable inventory item, you might have to do some finagling with another person, but it should be transferrable. Possibly only while in cooldown, though.

CEO, Goblinworks

There are several planned features for Smallholdings which will not be deployed on the first iteration of the feature, like the private chat channel and soulbinding. More features will come in time.

Having the Smallholding share vault access with the Settlement is just a convenience feature so you don't have to go to the Bank if you don't want to when you wish to unload inventory. Our assumption is that over time as we iterate on the feature people will have more reasons to visit their "house" when in town so saving them an extra bit of running around will be perceived as useful.


Having a smallholding able to act as a company shared vault would guarantee tons of sales immediately. Personally, I'd fast-track that feature.


Or it would just guarantee that people craft a lot of them.

Goblin Squad Member

I realize this isn't a game-critical feature, so take this as pure inquiry, not pressure.

When will I be able to do some of the other tavern backer actions, like picking out custom paintings for the walls?

Goblin Squad Member

Doc || Allegiant Gemstone Co. wrote:
Having a smallholding able to act as a company shared vault would guarantee tons of sales immediately. Personally, I'd fast-track that feature.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, I haven't seen the words "shared vault" coming out of the mouth of a developer just yet. So we still do not know if this is one of the planned features. Would certainly be the biggest seller for me.


I would love to eventually be able to add a small list of characters with permission to use the Smallholding, allowing DTs, alts, or people logged in at different times to access it. I could see a limit of six or ten characters even (how many people would you really want living in your house anyway?). Setting vault permissions would be nice too. You know, down the road and all that.

I do agree that there's not much advantage in placing it in a settlement right now, and I think a separate vault with access to the settlement vault would be much better. I think limiting vault share within the ring road is fine. All that said, I know where I'm putting mine. I'll bake some cookies, c'mon over and say hello.

Goblin Squad Member

Tyncale wrote:
Doc || Allegiant Gemstone Co. wrote:
Having a smallholding able to act as a company shared vault would guarantee tons of sales immediately. Personally, I'd fast-track that feature.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, I haven't seen the words "shared vault" coming out of the mouth of a developer just yet. So we still do not know if this is one of the planned features. Would certainly be the biggest seller for me.

I think that's implicit in "It can serve as a base of operations for an ad hoc party, a company or for an individual who wants to homestead a place in the wilderness" It wouldn't be much of a base of operations (especially for homesteading) if you had to go back to town to bank your stuff every time you were full.

Goblin Squad Member

Savage Grace wrote:
Or it would just guarantee that people craft a lot of them.

Smallholdings and Base Camps are not craftable. You can only get them with real money. Only Campfires will be crafted.


So the Tier 3 level 19 Royal Camp recipe is just a recipe for a bunch of burning twigs?

I thought GW had laid out a principle that everything in the store would be achievable through in-game methods, also.

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Savage Grace wrote:

So the Tier 3 level 19 Royal Camp recipe is just a recipe for a bunch of burning twigs?

I thought GW had laid out a principle that everything in the store would be achievable through in-game methods, also.

The actual principle was that nothing you pay money for will provide a meaningful advantage over items you can obtain with in-game resources. How they define "meaningful" is yet to be determined. I presume there has to be something craftable that is equivalent to a smallholding, whether it looks the same or not. "Smallholding" and "Base Camp" are just the specific names tied to two items. I sure hope that the Royal camp looks and behaves like a lot more than burning twigs. At the very least, they could recycle the art from the large bandit camps.

Goblin Squad Member

Don't be disrespecting my level 20 Royal Camp. But yes, all engineer-created camps will be one-use consumables.

The principle is that all functionality available via store items will be available via in game methods, but that doesn't have to mean that a single item will provide the same combination of functions, nor that there won't be a significant logistical cost assembling those capabilities. To equal a base camp you'd have to collect resources and consume queue time for assembling campfires, wilderness caches, and perhaps some other stuff, and even then you'd have to do it again when those things' lifetimes expired.

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Tyncale wrote:
Doc || Allegiant Gemstone Co. wrote:
Having a smallholding able to act as a company shared vault would guarantee tons of sales immediately. Personally, I'd fast-track that feature.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, I haven't seen the words "shared vault" coming out of the mouth of a developer just yet. So we still do not know if this is one of the planned features. Would certainly be the biggest seller for me.
I think that's implicit in "It can serve as a base of operations for an ad hoc party, a company or for an individual who wants to homestead a place in the wilderness" It wouldn't be much of a base of operations (especially for homesteading) if you had to go back to town to bank your stuff every time you were full.

Well, Company and party members being able to access the Vault of the Smallhold, is not the same as a "shared Vault".

With a shared Vault, I put something in, and then someone else can take it out. Very common in MMO's for Guilds. The Guildleader can usually set limitations and restictions as to who can access it: for instance only the GL and "Officers" can take out stuff, but simple members can still put stuff in. Officers being trusted members that have been lifted to that rank by the Guildleader at some point. Or you can put stuff in a separate compartment, that is accessable to everyeone in the Guild.

I suspect we will get shared Vaults, but as you can see, it usually takes some solid Company-tech to get it right.


Lemkii Twins wrote:
Savage Grace wrote:
Or it would just guarantee that people craft a lot of them.
Smallholdings and Base Camps are not craftable. You can only get them with real money. Only Campfires will be crafted.

Just a clarification: in the short term that is correct, but long term it is not. You will eventually be able to craft Holdings and Base Camps according to previous blogs, however premium versions have the perk of never being completely destroyed just going on cool-down when 'removed' from the world.

Goblin Squad Member

G&S Thannon Forsworn wrote:
You will eventually be able to craft Holdings and Base Camps according to previous blogs

I'm afraid you're remembering incorrectly. You will be able to craft PoI's and Outposts, which are similar in some ways to Smallholdings and Basecamps but very different in other ways.


Gol Guurzak wrote:
G&S Thannon Forsworn wrote:
You will eventually be able to craft Holdings and Base Camps according to previous blogs
I'm afraid you're remembering incorrectly. You will be able to craft PoI's and Outposts, which are similar in some ways to Smallholdings and Basecamps but very different in other ways.

You are correct, I appear to have misinterpreted this part of the blog:

"Because they are a premium feature, we are making sure that nothing they do is mechanically unique compared to other structures. They have plenty of convenience features, and most importantly give you a place to call your own and meet with your friends."

And possibly mixing some theory/off record threads information. I think you have a point that the PoI and Outpost system will provide some of the same functionality but differently.

CEO, Goblinworks

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@Dan - good question. I circulated it.

Goblin Squad Member

Domo!

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah, we are waiting for Dan to put up a picture of his reclining nude Harpy Girlfriend at his inn!

Goblin Squad Member

<kabal> Bunibuni wrote:

Yeah, we are waiting for Dan to put up a picture of his reclining nude Harpy Girlfriend at his inn!

I think I have seen that painting.

The Moanin' Leasher ? Some name like that.

Goblin Squad Member

Can my small holding look like a wizard tower?

Goblin Squad Member

Pyronous Rath wrote:
Can my small holding look like a wizard tower?

What you really need as a wizard is a spell that creates temporary campfires and at higher spell levels temporary small holdings.

Goblin Squad Member

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Neadenil Edam wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
Can my small holding look like a wizard tower?
What you really need as a wizard is a spell that creates temporary campfires and at higher spell levels temporary small holdings.

yeah great my class role will be tent lmao

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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Pyronous Rath wrote:
Neadenil Edam wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
Can my small holding look like a wizard tower?
What you really need as a wizard is a spell that creates temporary campfires and at higher spell levels temporary small holdings.
yeah great my class role will be tent lmao

I can see it now on Company Chat: "Hey, do we have any tents online?"

Goblin Squad Member

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Neadenil Edam wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
Can my small holding look like a wizard tower?
What you really need as a wizard is a spell that creates temporary campfires and at higher spell levels temporary small holdings.

Using power to build something that restores more power than it uses seems unlikely.

I can imagine spells that create other things that have some common function with freeholds, like perhaps "Wilderness Vault" or "Secure Hold" as a place to leave things for 24 hours, or where people could log out safely for a day and return to the game with a short period of invulnerability in that spot.

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Neadenil Edam wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
Can my small holding look like a wizard tower?
What you really need as a wizard is a spell that creates temporary campfires and at higher spell levels temporary small holdings.

Using power to build something that restores more power than it uses seems unlikely.

I can imagine spells that create other things that have some common function with freeholds, like perhaps "Wilderness Vault" or "Secure Hold" as a place to leave things for 24 hours, or where people could log out safely for a day and return to the game with a short period of invulnerability in that spot.

Yeah the immediate objection on the main forums was it would be overpowered.

In retrospect I agree it would indeed be a bit OP.

I like your other ideas though.

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