Daredevil!


Television

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Fisk is worth the weight? hhehehe I'm going to take that as a pun.

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Jessica Jones promotes Daredevil S3 with her usual charm. :)


It wasn't meant to be Bear, but I'll accept it since I made it...

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OMG, there's more.

The writers handling the Netflix Twitter accounts deserve awards.

Liberty's Edge

Let the devil out.

Hopefully a full trailer soon.

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Season 3 trailer.
'Nuff said.


Wow. I'm stoked because I think I figured out who the other guy is!


So I just went back and re-watched seasons 1 and 2 for the upcoming season 3. What was the point of Black Sky? Like, I get that its a powerful weapon and what not... but if you've already cracked immortality, why do you need a person that's a really good martial artist?

Put another way, since I've also re-watched Iron Fist seasons 1 and 2, if The Immortal Iron Fist is the sworn enemy of The Hand why don't The Chaste seem to know about him, and why isn't the Black Sky as supernaturally powerful as Iron Fist, kind of a yin yang thing?


Don't try to understand the Hand storyline, it never made any sense.


Yeah the Hand was kind of tossed in there because people expected it...but it never made THAT much sense. Unlike Wilson Fisk. He's the guy Daredevil should be after the most.


You know its likely to never happen but I would love a spiderman + DD team up against fisk.

Liberty's Edge

Fisk spotlight. Going to be great.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
You know its likely to never happen but I would love a spiderman + DD team up against fisk.

YASSS!!! Bonus points if they use the storyline where Spider-Man gets temporarily blinded and DD has to teach him how to use his Spider Sense and other senses to navigate the city!


WHY ISNT THIS IN MY FACE HOLES YET!!!

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Yes.


Finished EP1.

I've panned the first two seasons of DD. They had some good moments, but some of the writing/acting was really bad IMO. It was good enough to watch, but I mostly just wanted to keep current on whole suite of Marvel shows more than I wanted to watch DD on it's own.

The character work in EP1 (Season 3) was very enjoyable. I hope they maintain this amount of focus on the characterization throughout the season.

Liberty's Edge

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Six episodes into new season. Really good but I want to know one thing.

Spoiler:
With Dex having issues, how the heck did he pass a background check when He applied to the FBI?


2nd episode was quite awesome especially the prison part. (you know the one)


CapeCodRPGer wrote:
Six episodes into new season. Really good but I want to know one thing. ** spoiler omitted **

Finding a record like that is harder than you think. Especially with children. If something like that is ruled an accident, which it seems like it was, there wouldn't be any real police record under his name. The records would be under the deceased's name, so if you aren't looking really hard, you wouldn't find it. If you did a background check of the deceased, the kid's name would pop up possibly on the death certificate, but that would be one of the few places you might find it.

Only one other person knew the truth, and the show implies that she didn't enter that into any official record. To piece this together, you'd pretty much have to know that something suspicious existed in the first place.


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Personally I still like the pathos of JJ1 better. The constant Catholicism turns me off and spins up my anti-theism. Other than that though... (seriously, lazy apologetics is annoying once you know it)

This is the best Marvel season on Netflix. They did a better job of making the relationships more balanced, and while Matt still isn't the best lead protagonist, he's at worst serviceable, and at times even good.

In season 1 and 2, everything wrong in all of his relationships was his fault. That got old for me, and it makes me not care about a character. In this, the supporting characters weren't just flawed, but were creating their own tragedies, with Murdock and Fisk facing off in eye of the storm (metaphorically).

I'm sure some will have the opposite reaction from me on the action. Except for that ONE SCENE, most of the fights are pretty short. I like short fights. Two people punching each other endlessly is dull, no matter how fancy you make it look. Most of the fights are only a couple minutes. I didn't time them, but I suspect most action sequences were 3-4 minutes. Short, well done, and purposeful.

Best pacing of any of the Marvel/Netflix series. I liked the two big trips outside the present moment, though at the same time, they felt a little unnecessary. During a binge, they feel out of place, but on a slower watch, they'll be fine. They're decent explorations of character. I mean, we're not at the level of Scorsese, it is a comic book-based TV show. But they're pretty good for what they are.

There are some plot holes and deus ex machina, but some of it feels nitpicky to worry about.


The series was rather bloated, like the rest of Netflix Marvel. We didn't need to spend half a boring as hell episode on Karen's backstory, for instance. The Catholicism is a pain but at least it's a character trait so it can be excused for that.
Fisk was properly interesting and menacing as a villain, and I enjoyed seeing how he took over and manipulated folks. Fights were decent, and Matt wasn't nearly as annoying a lead as he was in earlier seasons...probably because he got a lot less screen time now. Can't say I like him, but he wasn't as bad. Foggy and Ellison were good and really carried were the core of the enjoyable characters in the show.
So a decent enough show. Better than s1, about as as good as S2 part 1, and way better than the Elektra/Hand stuff.


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Got to the fight with a certain marksman and our main character. I was not disappointed.

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This season is gold.

PDK's summary: still a very firm 'yes'.


Umm, ok... YES?! That one fight... Karen's character growth... Matt's journey back from being a sour puss all the time... I loved everything. My only sad moment was I felt

Spoiler:
the final showdown with Kingpin was a tad anti-climactic after Dex went down

As a fan of the comics through the 80's and 90's I was really grateful for one of Foggy's monologues, about not being a bad friend to Matt. Foggy in the comics before I read them was portrayed as kind of a milksop and even when I was a fan he was a bit of a doormat but at his heart Mr Nelson was always about being kind to his law partner and just in general being a good person.

Yes, there were moments of bloat in this season, moments I felt might have been unhelpful or superfluous. No show is ever going to get it 100% right, 100% of the time. Still, after all the silliness with the Hand, Black Sky and what not, this season was like coming home again for the little kid in me. Daredevil, the Man Without Fear, was just what I thought he should be this season so thanks to everyone involved in making this!


Finsihed ep 10. Not only is fisk a step ahead that guy hopped in his limo and drove out of sight while you were trying to take that step.

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Fisk is a genius


Finished it. Man this is one of my favorite seasons of the tv marvel so far.


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Season end spoilers:

Spoiler:

Dr. Kenji Oyama operating on Dex. Father of Lady Deathstrike. First hint that the Wolverine is already in the MCU...


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Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
The series was rather bloated, like the rest of Netflix Marvel. We didn't need to spend half a boring as hell episode on Karen's backstory, for instance.

I stand by my earlier comment.

In the context of a binge (which, those of us who've finished already have basically done), those two episodes that detail backstories feel out of place. The first one gives useful context, but Karen's could probably be skipped when watching the whole series very quickly.

If you watched one episode a week though (or some other similarly slow pace), I think those breaks will feel more natural and be much more entertaining.

Initially, Netflix's method of releasing whole seasons at once was revolutionary, and really cool because we didn't have to wait for the next episode. But there are drawbacks as well. Filler and exposition become much heavier, becoming a weight that slows the story down. In a normal TV show, it would be normal to have some exposition reminding the viewer of things that happened 3 episodes earlier, but during a binge it fells like "duh, I already knew that." The same can easily happen to subplots as we're focused on the main story.

In short, I agree with you with a caveat; if you change the context of viewing, they won't feel as boring.


So I liked a lot of this, but some of it could have been redone. All I do know is that we FINALLY got a decent villain and it's the one we all thought he would be. Wilson Fisk for the MCU films!

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I enjoyed Season 3 far more than Season 2. Fisk was great. I'd also love to see him enjoy some wider usage in the MCU. Vincent D'Onofrio has even stated in an interview he'd love to see Kingpin show up in a Spiderman movie. That would be f*~%ing sweet.

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Aberzombie wrote:
Vincent D'Onofrio has even stated in an interview he'd love to see Kingpin show up in a Spiderman movie. That would be f@%$ing sweet.

Drooling at the thought of this... I want Donofrio Fisk in everything related to MCU, including f@$$ing up Stark Enterprises' contracts!

The only part I would not look for is when MCU child spider-man rips through Donofrio with his super-strength that can down Giant Ant-Man... here's hoping Donofrio Fisk will have more villains than just pencil-throwing bullseye if spider-child shows up!


I'm having a real hard time imagining the MCU version of Spider-Man NOT ending up under the MCU version of Fisk's thumb.


Great Grey Wolf Sif wrote:
I'm having a real hard time imagining the MCU version of Spider-Man NOT ending up under the MCU version of Fisk's thumb.

He has some growing to do that is for sure.

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Aunt May will be threatened. Sally Fields will return!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Just finished watching this season. Speaking as someone who found the first couple seasons only okay (my recollection of S1 was interesting scenes with Fisk, Matt being a jerk, and lots of whispering and punching in the darkness; s2 was some good stuff with Karen, frustrating stuff with Matt and Elektra, b!%@!%&% with the Hand, and lots of whispering and punching in the darkness)... I really liked this season. Matt had some upward character growth, Karen and Foggy had good consistent roles, Fisk continues to be the best villain in the MCU period, and I could see and hear what was going on most of the time (though they still had some whispering and punching in the darkness just to be consistent). The pacing felt a lot more even and I cared about the results of the subplots as well as the main plots.

I did have a few "where is Jessica Jones?" moments because this is her neighborhood too and it seems like some of the events would affect her, but OTOH since I guess she only barely got away from arrest she's avoiding scenes with the Feds in them, plus with JJ you can always just assume she's drunk and passed out somewhere. Still, she'll pick up on Murdock being in the news at some point. What really bugs me is that because the show runner of JJ thinks she's too cool for/embarrassed her show is part of the MCU, there probably won't be mention of the events of DD s3 in JJ s3 even though the events should have a massive impact on events in Hell's Kitchen--it should effect even background goings on.

Anyway, standalone this was a really good season. Did I mention Sister Maggie yet? I love her.


I demand we start a petition to get Feige to get D'Onofrio Fisk into at least ONE Phase Four Movie. :P

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I don't want Feige to touch D'Onofrio.


PDK,

Look all I'm saying is since Feige is kind of the guy that helps greenlight movies for Marvel, he should get a say. I'm not saying he needs to do the writing, but come on.

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Fisk could be interesting as at least a background mention to stuff going on in New York in a Spider-Man movie (yes, seeing more of him would be great, but I'm also thinking what might be more likely to happen).

If he didn't get Snapped, Fisk could be re-taking over New York and "protecting" it with his dark version of order.


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If they do a Dark Avengers movie, Fisk could be an ally (He knows people...), even if not a full-fledged member, of the villain group.


Ooh. Wilson Fisk financially backing the Dark Avengers. Now THAT has implications!


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I was a bit sad how overly influential they made Kingpin only to enable the punching finale. It makes DD's threats against Vanessa ring hollow.
If Kingpin can casually drop federal charges and have a random Jury blackmailed within a week, how is this a problem for him?
Also, talk about Purple Man powers at his speech before the angry mob. If any politician could sway a mob of haters with the casual mention of "Fake News" well, the world would be a different place ;)

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Just finished s3 this weekend. I agree with Irontruth about Karen's backstory. I already felt like her character (or maybe just the way the actress is portraying her?) did more to drag the story down and I ended up fast forwarding through most of that episode.

Sister Maggie was great, but I didn't care for the big reveal with her. The character stood on her own and the reveal felt too... extra.

I did enjoy Matt's crisis of faith plot line. But there's some hard philosophical questions that seem do be done a disservice by being neatly wrapped up in a few scenes worth of content throughout the season. Maybe I just enjoy the tension of philosophical debate and don't like seeing it "resolved" when there's still so many good questions to ask.

I like the concept of Fisk/Kingpin, but found the voice to be grating. I ended up fast forwarding through many of those scenes as well.

Overall, I enjoyed it, but I actually had a better time watching Iron Fist s2 than Daredevil s3. This could be because I felt a stronger connection with Wing, Knight and Temple than I did with Page.

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I like Karen and can relate to her (I don't know what that says about me since I know a lot of people hate her), but I felt like her backstory episode was filler, or the episode of another show. I don't mind taking some time to fill in some of the gaps of her history, but it was way too long. There's nothing in that episode that serves the story as a whole, and we could have had a shorter, cleaner way of explaining some o fher motivations.

I get what you're saying about Sister Maggie, Sara Marie, but that comes straight from the comics so they were unlikely to change it.

I like Kingpin's voice, but his deliberateness feels sometimes OTT.

I agree that Iron Fist S2's characters overall are more relatable and fun (same goes for Luke Cage)... but I've never latched on that strongly to any of the heroes in the Daredevil series (I watched S1 entirely for Fisk), and it's one of my least favorite because of that (I really don't get the accolades it gets, but I expect other audience members are looking for something quite different in it than I am).... BUT I felt like DDS3 was the best season of Daredevil so far, and by far.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
I like Karen and can relate to her (I don't know what that says about me since I know a lot of people hate her), but I felt like her backstory episode was filler, or the episode of another show. I don't mind taking some time to fill in some of the gaps of her history, but it was way too long. There's nothing in that episode that serves the story as a whole, and we could have had a shorter, cleaner way of explaining some o fher motivations.

I definitely don't hate her and its unfortunate that that is apparently a thing. Reflecting on it more, I'm having a hard time nailing down exactly why I feel the way I do about her character and now I'm stuck on figuring this out I might have to go rewatch so episodes.

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I had one issue with S3 and maybe I missed something.

spoiler:
So DD catches Fisk's right hand man who reveals that Fisk killed Julie. Im not sure why Fisk would do that. I mean, I get that he totally would if he had to get to Dex, but Fisk usually sits on things like that until he needs it.

What I assumed was that Vanessa was playing Fisk. She wanted to marry in and take over the empire by removing Fisk. In order to do so, she had Julie killed and the plan was to turn Dex on Fisk. Fisk gets taken out and she picks up where he left off. Of course, DD would show up and ruin the plan. Fisk would go nuts when he finds out and do something to get him sent back to the pen.

That was were I assumed things were going. Obviously, it went in a much different direction.


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I liked Karen's story -- and she is treated with a lot more respect by the TV show writers than nearly all of the comic writers -- but her episode really broke up the rhythm of the main story. I appreciate Karen getting a bit more spotlight, and I think these one-off episodes can work well in a comic annual or a weekly episodic format, and but I think writers for Netflix shows are still having problems working out the kinks & rhythms of writing for a series that can be consumed in big chunks (or all at once).

---

I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing Deborah Woll's new D&D web show. Now if we could only entice her into trying Pathfinder or Starfinder...


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I'm definitely not a fan of the Netflix MCU's shows writers reliance on villains/antagonists whose actions are largely presented on screen as being attributed to their neurological differences. It doesn't help when they build arcs and spend much screen time attempting to portray the villains/antagonists as sympathetic and/or relatable. I don't think this is a deliberate conflation on the writer's parts so much as their sheer ignorance, arrogance, and/or laziness. I think the show writers and showrunners could do much better if 1) they had actual aneurotypical writers (and neurologists/behavioral psychologists) in their writers' rooms, and 2) they actually bothered to include aneurotypical characters (and actors) in their shows as just normal everyday people. Fisk isn't evil because of likely being on the autism spectrum anymore than Dex/Bullseye being automatically evil from having borderline personality disorder (and likely having sociopathic tendencies). People with autism and people with BPD overwhelmingly lead full and productive lives without turning to evil. If the writers & showrunners can't make these distinctions clear within the constraints of the show to the average viewers, then they shouldn't use them as a foundation or core component for the antagonists. It feels like such a massive disservice to the millions of neurodiverse people who struggle with and overcome their challenges in a society largely ignorant, and often hostile, to them.

(If any of the above comes across as is offensive, I apologize for my ignorance and poor communication. It just feels like after decades, mainstream Hollywood writers are finally getting a clue to let go of lazy, offensive tropes and the Hayes code-thinking about women and the whole gay/lesbian thing*, but they still are almost completely blind to how they are getting autism and other neurodivergence so wrong.)

And really, after the first couple episodes, I didn't want to build any connection with Dex, and the writer's/director's attempts to do so pushed me out of the show. It might have worked otherwise, but the show leaned hard on him being such a disturbing, dangerous, and abusive creep to the women around him. I found Dex scary and absolutely believable, but don't expect me to feel empathy or sympathy for him.

* Gay & lesbian, sure. But still not bisexuality & asexuality, nor any of the other points of self-identity outside of stereotypical black & white cis-male & cis-female.

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
People with autism and people with BPD overwhelmingly lead full and productive lives without turning to evil. If the writers & showrunners can't make these distinctions clear within the constraints of the show to the average viewers, then they shouldn't use them as a foundation or core component for the antagonists. It feels like such a massive disservice to the millions of neurodiverse people who struggle with and overcome their challenges in a society largely ignorant, and often hostile, to them.

100%.

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