Who is TEO at war with?


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Goblin Squad Member

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Everyone's evil. Golgotha is honest about it.

>8-]

Goblin Squad Member

Muhuhuhahahahahhaha! Er, ahem. I mean, yeah. I concur.


Yeah, if you are anywhere near Utislav Escalations by Hammerforge, even if just doing the escalation yourself and not bothering with any towers, and TEO is also there in a zerg group (like a zerg guild will do) they will kill you on sight and loot all your loverly tier 2 recipes you just farmed.

Witnessed in person. 20+ vs 5 = runnnnnnn heheh

I presume TEO is making the 30-45 minute trek all the way up there because they are unable to fight the Mordant Spire escalations and Golgotha at the same time.

Goblin Squad Member

Thod wrote:

This is a PvP game and this is PvP in a different way. These boards can be used to smear your opponent while looking great yourself using nothing more as a little bit of hyperbole.

Anything goes int love and war right?

However this was nothing more then someone not knowing where to go for their issue, and our typical 'devil may care' style.

If we start a smear campaign it will be far more awesome and epic in nature that this. Trust me on that one.

We are working with a few of the other settlement leaders to clear up territory confusion issues as well as proper reporting of behavior undesirable to the given company. Seeing as how I want to know if one of my beautiful little butterflies is behaving in a fashion that Kabal finds unacceptable, I imagine others would like the same, and would desire the same understanding when weeding out the undesirables.

So that being said.
You can always find us Here. For all your basking in the glow of our awesomeness needs.

Goblin Squad Member

@Doc,

We only kill our enemies and loot their bodies, you know the guys who have been attacking us and killing people at the bank....

@Sunnfire,

My offer is still on the table ;)


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1 guy vs 150. I'm *sincerely* honored that I produced enough content to get on your kill list. <3

It will definitely be neat to see you guys in action when you try to fight people you don't outnumber by 5 to 1 in manpower. Will be some good action I bet.

Goblin Squad Member

Ouch.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Doc || Allegiant Gemstone Co. wrote:

Yeah, if you are anywhere near Utislav Escalations by Hammerforge, even if just doing the escalation yourself and not bothering with any towers, and TEO is also there in a zerg group (like a zerg guild will do) they will kill you on sight and loot all your loverly tier 2 recipes you just farmed.

Witnessed in person. 20+ vs 5 = runnnnnnn heheh

I presume TEO is making the 30-45 minute trek all the way up there because they are unable to fight the Mordant Spire escalations and Golgotha at the same time.

Wait, when anyone outside of Aragon says that they shouldn't be summarily killed when "minding their own business", they get called names and a flame war starts.

Let's avoid that; just deny that you are doing the same thing as others, and let everyone look at the actual evidence to independently decide if your statement was equivalent to what some have described others as "carebears" for making.

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Cheatle wrote:

@Doc,

We only kill our enemies and loot their bodies, you know the guys who have been attacking us and killing people at the bank....

@Sunnfire,

My offer is still on the table ;)

I can personally attest to the fact that it is a fallacy for anyone in TEO to suggest that your group reserves your looting strictly to honourably slain opponents.

I hold that it is up to the leaders of the party to maintain order within their ranks, and their failure to do so is a reflection of their conviction.

I don't need to provide a shiny glossy picture to know someone with integrity would have attempted to stop unwarranted looting. The fact that no one attempted to stop it shows the leader of the group was complicit in the action.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Whee, yet another political sniping thread to stop following.


Quote:
Let's avoid that; just deny that you are doing the same thing as others, and let everyone look at the actual evidence to independently decide if your statement was equivalent to what some have described others as "carebears" for making.

I personally do not initiate PvP within 10 hexes of Aragon, or 2 hexes from any NPC town, but will defend if attacked within those zones. I encourage that same approach to our members, though I'm not their boss. We're free people. Despite that, I think any PvP from AGC close to Aragon is just some good-natured sparring over coal with Golgotha.

Goblin Squad Member

It is fairly typical for one side to hollar "Zerg!" when they act poorly and become KOS to a large organized group. It is so typical it is old and boring.

I don't know if AGC has done anything to TEO to volunteer for KOS status. I would not be surprised.

Really though, running in groups and KOS(ing) your enemies is certainly normal and acceptable. For a while, killing players in towns was also. There are always consequences (of some type) for what you do in-game.

You reap what you sow.

Goblin Squad Member

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Bringslite wrote:


You reap what you sow.

I'm expecting rainbows and lollipops.

;)

Goblin Squad Member

The issue at heart here is not whether one cries foul against a zerg or not. That is another discussion I am happy to have, elsewhere.

We are merely attempting to establish how TEO is going to play. I thought they were good and we are simply questioning some of the recent actions.

I am not aware AGC was in conflict directly with TEO, nor if TEO considers us an enemy, either through our own actions or by association only (aragon etc.) They have of course no right to tell us anything.

If TEO has shifted from good to neutral or even chaotic as the recent actions lately have indicated, I'm curious if they will come out and just state so. Until then, we here at AGC have no choice but to consider TEO chaotic and treat them accordingly in the open.

There is nothing wrong with any of this, nor could care less if TEO responded or not. AGC will continue to adjust to the ever changing landscape.

Atheory
Allegiant Gemstone Company

Goblin Squad Member

Still Neutral Good. Good does not mean pacifistic, and bandits who attack characters in our town will be treated accordingly.

Actions have consequences. You wanted to play bandits, well, this is getting treated like one.

Goblin Squad Member

Atheory wrote:

The issue at heart here is not whether one cries foul against a zerg or not. That is another discussion I am happy to have, elsewhere.

We are merely attempting to establish how TEO is going to play. I thought they were good and we are simply questioning some of the recent actions.

I am not aware AGC was in conflict directly with TEO, nor if TEO considers us an enemy, either through our own actions or by association only (aragon etc.) They have of course no right to tell us anything.

If TEO has shifted from good to neutral or even chaotic as the recent actions lately have indicated, I'm curious if they will come out and just state so. Until then, we here at AGC have no choice but to consider TEO chaotic and treat them accordingly in the open.

There is nothing wrong with any of this, nor could care less if TEO responded or not. AGC will continue to adjust to the ever changing landscape.

Atheory
Allegiant Gemstone Company

Well said.

As has been noted elsewhere, possibly above, TEO is large and always growing. It is not surprising that they have the where-with-all to respond how they like to thier chosen enemies. I really don't think that it is neutral or chaotic.

It just IS a part of the game, established through a couple of years worth of forum wars. No one has reached out to change any of the perception that they have laid down during that long wait for the game.

Goblin Squad Member

If anyone has any issues with a member of TEO, you can message me.

@Bringslite,

You are quite right, you reap what you sow, and in this case AGC has attacked and killed multiple members in and around KP.

In general, if you kill people in EBA territory, don't expect us to be nice to you while were outside of EBA territory.

Goblin Squad Member

@Alexander

In your town? To my knowledge AGC has never attacked anyone in your town of Brighthaven. Am I misinformed?

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:
Really though, running in groups and KOS(ing) your enemies is certainly normal and acceptable. For a while, killing players in towns was also. There are always consequences (of some type) for what you do in-game.

OOC:

I'm not exactly sure what KOS(ing) is, but from your response I think I can assume you are referring to the practice of intentionally causing lag so you can kill someone with impunity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sure, that's fair enough as a tactic if you're going for the kills - but if a group is trying to pose as being the good guys while hiding behind "screenshots or it didn't happen" while everyone runs amok causing havok.. Well.. I just hope they don't expect to be taken very seriously.

Quote:
You reap what you sow.

Yeah. That.

IC:

"Whoever this Sir Lah-Di-Dah is who considers themself a leader of this good-for-nothing band of thieves that call themselves The Empyrean Order can go soak their head. I for one will not bring any of my business their direction unless I see some honest attempt at reparations for my loss." Said Asha to whoever may be listening to him whine while he drowns his sorrows in a tankard at the pub.

Goblin Squad Member

Atheory wrote:

@Alexander

In your town? To my knowledge AGC has never attacked anyone in your town of Brighthaven. Am I misinformed?

While you may operate at a level of "every settlement for themselves", why would you think that others should operate that way? That is what having friends and allies is about. Better all around mutual strength.

Goblin Squad Member

@Lahasha, KOS means Kill On Sight.

So when Doc was shooting auction-shoppers and people at the bank in Keepers Pass, a week or two ago, he was setting the stage for you getting killed. He's your friend, and that's fine. Just understand he wrote some checks that you might end up paying.

Goblin Squad Member

@Bringslite

You presume too much sir, I have no illusions of what is what. I was merely splitting hairs full well knowing it would come full circle, back to your very point.

The better question is, what did that accomplish? Those that didn't respond as you did already know that answer.

Goblin Squad Member

OOC:

I'm not exactly sure what KOS(ing) is, but from your response I think I can assume you are referring to the practice of intentionally causing lag so you can kill someone with impunity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong. KOS stands for Kill On Sight. It had nothing to do with causing lag or anything nasty or outside of acceptable behavior. No harm no foul. :)

Zerging can cause lag issues. When it is used to do that intentionally, I would (personally) consider it very wrong. Beyond player on player and into serious bad boy territory.

I have absolutely no problem posting here that I would never believe TEO would do that on purpose. They don't roll that way. In fact, I doubt most of the older groups in-game would do something like that either.

Goblin Squad Member

@Yrme

That is acceptable to us, there is some debate internally whether TEO recognized us (they do not know all of our members by name) before attacking or just came up and started attacking. That is the crux of the matter for Asha, and one I cannot satisfy just yet.

In the words of so many people "it's all good in the hood"

Goblin Squad Member

Atheory wrote:

@Bringslite

You presume too much sir, I have no illusions of what is what. I was merely splitting hairs full well knowing it would come full circle, back to your very point.

The better question is, what did that accomplish? Those that didn't respond as you did already know that answer.

Huh. What did posting it accomplish except to be provocative? I may be wrong, but several things over the last couple of weeks have given me the idea that some members of AGC are surprised at being targets for thier actions.

Your comment above was one of a couple things that have given me that impression. If I am wrong... well it wouldn't be the first time. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Yrme wrote:
@Lahasha, KOS means Kill On Sight.

Ah okay, thanks.

Quote:
So when Doc was shooting auction-shoppers and people at the bank in Keepers Pass, a week or two ago, he was setting the stage for you getting killed. He's your friend, and that's fine. Just understand he wrote some checks that you might end up paying.

Actually, that part I understand and have no problem with.(The knock-on effects of association, I mean. That's part of what is making this all so fun and interesting.)

My grumbling is purely in game as my character would consider the tactics used by the group to be extremely cowardly and dishonourable - which I consider to be a valid complaint against a group who is supposed to be "good".

The part about Doc murdering random people at a bank however is actually new to me and brings up another fun question: should I treat information I learn here as IC? Not everyone differentiates between the two, and not everyone uses the forums. Maybe I could confront him about a rumour "I heard in a pub". :D

Goblin Squad Member

I like that you use OOC to clarify. We are all after the same thing here. FUN.

Sometimes in character posturing can get out of hand. I am probably guilty of that.


Cheatle wrote:
I made things right, I offered to pay for the damages, and let them kill me.

Whiter than Vanilla Ice.

Goblin Squad Member

OOC is preferable for me personally, so that I don't misunderstand.

I don't do anything IC.

@AGC, we have a list of your entire company, as well as settlement to search through whenever we meet new people.

Goblin Squad Member

LOL @KC


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I'm just gonna pass the torch here...

Doc || Allegiant Gemstone Co. wrote:

1 guy vs 150. I'm *sincerely* honored that I produced enough content to get on your kill list. <3

It will definitely be neat to see you guys in action when you try to fight people you don't outnumber by 5 to 1 in manpower. Will be some good action I bet.

SHOTS. FIRED.

;)

Bringslite wrote:
It is fairly typical for one side to hollar "Zerg!" when they act poorly and become KOS to a large organized group. It is so typical it is old and boring.

Unless it's a battlecry. Then it's suicidal and delusional. But also kinda badass.

Hang on, I think I just found my new official battlecry.


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And because I've noticed my jokes on this thread are the teensiest bit slanted in one side's favor, and that doesn't exactly represent my views, I'll give my thoughts:

I don't think anyone's done anything particularly wrong ingame. Out-of-game, I think this thread has been surprisingly civil, relatively speaking. In fact, it's been so unremarkable, I think I'll just reuse a joke for it.
This thread in summary.

Inevitably, some goodly organizations are going to act less-than-Lawful-Good sometimes. Some of them may even make a habit of it. Inevitably, there are going to be individual members who cause trouble.

Inevitably, some bandits are going to get really pissy when they get revengeganked. There may be stretched truths spread by either side to deride or outright question the integrity of their rivals.

I think that both sides here contain a member or two who needs to chill the flip out and have some unconvincing grass. Overall, though, they seem fairly justified.

I like AGC. They're fun. I also like the thought of AGC getting the s~&@ beat out of them sometimes. I especially like the thought of there being more serious battles where TEO doesn't have such a numbers advantage.

Hey, I thought of a new relevant link. KC out.

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Cheatle wrote:

OOC is preferable for me personally, so that I don't misunderstand.

I don't do anything IC.

@AGC, we have a list of your entire company, as well as settlement to search through whenever we meet new people.

There has to be some level of being in character - especially considering the in game repercussions associated with any decision you make. From the sounds of it I am on an okay-to-kill list for an offense committed weeks ago that I was unaware of. That list was taken from out of character sources, but for me has very real in-game consequences despite there being no good reason for anyone to recognize me beyond the magical floating name above my head.

Theoretically the order had to come from someone.

Yes, I understand you don't control everyone in a 100+ person organization.

For added clarity and information - the TEO group did not zerg rush us and I was not complaining about being attacked. Their presence caused lag and even then I was not complaining about dying. (The light of their armour distracted me, blahblahblah..)

Not that it seems relevant at this time but I am good aligned(or will be when the game mechanics exist) as well. Admittedly this might not be the best place to voice an In Character concern, but we are currently lacking a selection of better options.

Am I wrong to hope that good people will maintain a sense of fair play and justice? Would it do me any good to make the trip to TEO's settlement and petition for reparations on the grounds I have committed no offense to deserve targetting?

Goblin Squad Member

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Ride with Outlaws, Die Like an Outlaw

Goblin Squad Member

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I think TEO (like other gaming communities) deserve their success in this game so far. They've grown and organized when many discounted them before. I've seen numerous comments about how they'll suck at PVP when the game starts, despite their numbers. How funny is that?

I drink to TEO's health and their numbers.

Goblin Squad Member

@Nihimon - Word!

Goblin Squad Member

@Lahasha

I realize that you are playing your character IC, and that you are of good alignment (now that you have said so), but how is your alignment going to help you when we are in a feud or at war? These are probably things that GW are going to have to figure out.

Right now, anyone partying with AGC is going to be a target. We have no way to distinguish you otherwise, and I can't make an exceptions list with 1 person on it. For all I know the ONE good person grouping with AGC is their Hauler, and that is how they intend to get around not losing their stuff (dumping it on you, being that you are good).

Alignment is going to have to be really well developed in this game. There is also going to need to be a clear way to differentiate between alignments. My issue here, is that in all open world sandbox games, whom ever you work with is usually who you are associated with, and thus who we identify you with. TEO will be using this method until GW has created a clear cut way for us to differentiate.

My second issue, and not at you, but with this game is the alignment system in general, which forces you to play within a set of parameters that aren't even clear cut IN REAL LIFE. Every game I have been in with a political climate such as this, there has been no alignment to contend with.

TEO makes decisions sometimes with LG, NG, CG, or N alignments in mind. I don't think we consider ourselves specifically NG, but a combination of those 4 alignments.

Basically, the short of it, Nihimon hit the nail on the head. You are who you associate with. If you want off our hostile list, you are going to have to play with different people who don't come to an alliance town, and kill people for the hell of it.

Whatever they have told you is up to you to believe. What we have experienced from them is to attack and kill people (its been ongoing up until about a few days ago) in an alliance settlement. THey attack in mass (3-5 people) killing 1-2 people at the bank, and then run away not actually fighting anyone (except once). The other tactic they use is to kill someone at the bank, log out of game, log back in 20-30 mins later, kill someone else again, and repeat that for hours. These are the people that you are associating yourself with.

Goblin Squad Member

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Anyone else notice how this thread went from TEO defending themselves saying they shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of just one of their members to a death warrant for anyone associated with Doc?

Goblin Squad Member

I never said that we shouldn't be held accountable, I specifically asked where is the proof OR who is the person that did it, and no one gave me that information.

It has gotten off topic though.

Goblin Squad Member

Lahasha, as I'm an RP fan myself, I'll ive you response both IC and OOC...

IC: My friends in the Allegiant Gemstone Company, it pains me to find that, upon my return from dealing with personal matters, there are numerous reports of your members violating the primary tenet of the Keepers of the Circle with regard to aggression. Surely the times I have welcomed you to this community, congratulated you on successes, and most of all supported the free-thinking folk of Aragon even at times when my own allies do not has some meaning? I sincerely hope that these incidents were simply a misunderstanding. I fully expect you to deal with your company matters regarding other Companies and settlements as you see fit of course, but I must at the same time ask that you respect the non-aggression stance of the Keepers of the Circle.

We are prepared to forgive all past actions, in return for assurance that members of your company will cease aggression in all territory claimed by the Keepers. Failing this, our organizations would need to come to an understanding of our relationship and whether you will waive our stance on non-aggression as it applies to your Company. I would of course raise this as a concern to Aragon as well, given that Keeper's Pass seeks to maintain friendly relations with that settlement as well, but I further understand that the government of Aragon runs differently than ours with regard to member Companies.

I look forward to your response, as well as continued good relations between our two groups.

Squaring the Circle,
Erian El'ranelen
Guardian of Gold

OOC: So, as others have noted you do indeed take on the reputation of an organization by being a member. That may in turn result in hostile actions against you due to no actions of your own. This can be seen as an IC application of OOC knowledge, but can also be attributed to behind-the-scenes spy networks (we all basically have near-perfect organizational knowledge of others at present).

As to whether TEO is in the right to attack members of another organization without direct provocation from that member based on their alignment, I think it could be argued that they are clear to do so. In this particular case, AGC has declared itself somewhat a "profit first, take out anybody in our way" organization, then TEO's actions would be Lawful as trying to drive out "bad guys" and weaken the enemy.

My above post, in Erian's long-winded way, is basically just saying "Hey, you guys need to respect our territory. If you don't, we absolve all Keeper's Pass members from attacking your members." One goal there being to again reinforce that Keepers are not pacifists--we will fight to protect both our territory and our principles.

EDIT: Oh, and I did want to note to the OP topic...Keepers would take a similar approach to what TEO has outlined. We of course condone no aggression from our members, so if ever there is a problem we'd certainly address it. But we'd need specifics on the character to take proper action.

Goblin Squad Member

Look, if you want to be an unaligned settlement you can't be part of the largest alliance in game. No one is going to let you be at peace when the entire EBA uses your city all the time. I want to fight TEO and TSV, they live in your city, we are going to come to your city and attack them and your members are going to get caught up.

TLDR If you want to be neutral with everyone you can't be in the largest alliance in the game.

Goblin Squad Member

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As a record, we, Keepers of the Circle and by extension the settlement of Keeper's Pass, are Neutral Good.

We have our own rules for our own Settlement, and in this case Erian is letting everyone know what that law is - that we do not support aggression in our territory.

If companies decide not to follow that law, then we will respond to protect our Settlement. (Ie you attack us, then we will attack you. But if you do not attack us, we will not attack you).

I don't see how we can't have our own rules and be in an Alliance with others. It's not about being a neutral party here - we do not allow aggressive measures by our members against anyone who didn't aggress first regardless of their alignment.

Goblin Squad Member

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Indeed, our goal is to minimize aggression, but we fully acknowledge that some won't take to our ways. That's fine. We honestly want to build positive relationships with everyone willing to hear us. We understand some folks have grudges to further, and others just want the opportunity to fight. We're okay with that. Just don't do it, without consent, on our territory. Want to fight TEO and T7V in Keeper's Pass? Come and challenge them to a fight. I'm certain you'll get folks that accept. Coming and sniping at people "caught" in the UI or otherwise AFK isn't really fighting after all.

If, however, folks simply ignore our offers (I've offered up a core 6 hex as an arena, for any that don't know) we're okay with that too. It lays out the path we'll need to take as a group. We, as a group, don't have any grudges nor an itch for instigating PvP. If folks want a fight, though, we're fine with that. Just know that we're not the sorts to revert to peace once our tenet is openly broken.

We should, however, probably take further discussions on Keeper's Pass to a more appropriate thread. I'll bump our Diplomatic thread for anyone interested in further dialogue.

Goblin Squad Member

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@Cheatle @Erian El'ranelen

Thanks for your responses, and for noting that my "problem" (I use that term very loosely) is IC. As I mentioned before I have no issue with the potential effects of association with any particular group. On the contrary, for the first time ever I believe this has given me a real reason to act in-character in a game as I truly was not aware of the extent of AGC's actions.

I think more than anything else I was hoping for a bit more depth to the response beyond - you wear their colours so you must die - but as before I am more interested in the response on an In-Game level.

That you have now unequivocally stated "Right now, anyone partying with AGC is going to be a target." clears up the question of whether your members were acting lawfully as far as they(or I) are concerned.

There's a lovely debate to be had about whether or not they are being good, which is the crux of Asha's complaint - but that's obviously best left for another thread, or when the game has developed enough that he can lodge a formal complaint with your ruling elite.

Just in case it needs to be said, Cheatle - I promise all snarky comments about your leadership abilities are entirely in-game and IC.

KotC - Erian El'ranelen wrote:


IC: My friends in the Allegiant Gemstone Company, it pains me to find that, upon my return from dealing with personal matters, there are numerous reports of your members violating the primary tenet of the Keepers of the Circle with regard to aggression. Surely the times I have welcomed you to this community, congratulated you on successes, and most of all supported the free-thinking folk of Aragon even at times when my own allies do not has some meaning? I sincerely hope that these incidents were simply a misunderstanding. I fully expect you to deal with your company matters regarding other Companies and settlements as you see fit of course, but I must at the same time ask that you respect the non-aggression stance of the Keepers of the Circle.

We are prepared to forgive all past actions, in return for assurance that members of your company will cease aggression in all territory claimed by the Keepers. Failing this, our organizations would need to come to an understanding of our relationship and whether you will waive our stance on non-aggression as it applies to your Company. I would of course raise this as a concern to Aragon as well, given that Keeper's Pass seeks to maintain friendly relations with that settlement as well, but I further understand that the government of Aragon runs differently than ours with regard to member Companies.

I look forward to your response, as well as continued good relations between our two groups.

Squaring the Circle,
Erian El'ranelen
Guardian of Gold

IC: "I'm just a lackey - no one tells me nuthin'." Asha says before finishing his mead in one great swig and then passes out, drooling on the table.


Asha, I take into account the lives of everyone involved with my adventuring groups. I'm afraid your companions have exhausted all of my goodwill with their attacks on fellow members of The Empyrean Order and other partners in the Everbloom Alliance, and so it's no secret that I instructed my followers to be extremely cautious upon sighting your group once, but you neglect to mention that I did not order them to attack, nor did any of our Order's faithful advance of their own accord.

You should not, however, think me foolish enough to leave your belongings in the hands of the Ustalavian soldiers who slayed you, for I harbor no more amiable feelings toward them than I do for the Allegiant Gemstone Company. Take solace in the swift execution of your killers by the fine volunteers under my command that night.

As for the liberation of resources that once belonged to you, I hold no illusions about where they would end up. Whatever you return to your benefactors will only be used to harm me or my allies in the future. If circumstances were different, perhaps we would avenge you solely to return your belongings. Or perhaps you would add your strength to our ranks and rejoice in the collective might of our Order. But alas, this is not the case, and your affiliation with Atheory's band of lowly raiders sealed my decision that night.

I speak only for myself, and my ideals are not necessarily those of The Empyrean Order. But I am not a merciful man, and others may heed my natural leadership if they agree with me.

In short, I answer only to Ragathiel. If you seek mercy, ally not with those who intend to do me or mine harm.


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Lahasha wrote:
Am I wrong to hope that good people will maintain a sense of fair play and justice? Would it do me any good to make the trip to TEO's settlement and petition for reparations on the grounds I have committed no offense to deserve targetting?
Cheatle wrote:

I realize that you are playing your character IC, and that you are of good alignment (now that you have said so), but how is your alignment going to help you when we are in a feud or at war? These are probably things that GW are going to have to figure out...

...Alignment is going to have to be really well developed in this game. There is also going to need to be a clear way to differentiate between alignments.

Outside of the River Kingdoms, I'd say that a "death by association" policy would be heavily Chaotic or Lawful Neutral at best. You're killing innocent people just for being friends with someone you hate. In my game, it would be considered flat-out evil. Sorry, TEO, that's the truth of it.

...except we are not outside the River Kingdoms. We bear the Mark of Pharasma. As Grickin puts it, "Killing is not murder."

Death is cheap in the River Kingdoms nowadays. Killing a guy in cold blood is more akin to dumping your dog's s@*~ on a neighbor's fake grass-covered lawn than any really monstrous act.

Cheatle wrote:
I never said that we shouldn't be held accountable, I specifically asked where is the proof OR who is the person that did it, and no one gave me that information.

I'd say a better point would be this:

Retaliating against AGC and all members through PvP is an in-game act. AGC would have no place complaining about it on the forums (and they're not, really, they're more talking about "TEO's consistency as a good-aligned power").

Posting about AGC on the forums and calling all of them jerks would be an out-of-game act. Complaining about this behavior would be valid, as you're not mixing mediums.

TEO is saying the organization shouldn't be judged OOC for the actions of one member—that calling Cheatle a hypocrite is not reasonable.

TEO is also issuing a death warrant in-game for the actions of one member—an IC act.

Contrary to how it may seem, I'm not making any point for either side. I'm just saying that Capitalocracy's comparison, while entertaining, doesn't really fit. :P

(I hope all that parsed sensibly. I've gotten about 14 hours of sleep over the last four days.)

Gol Phyllain wrote:
TLDR

Figures that the only one of these we get is for the post that has the wordcount of a brochure.

Lahasha wrote:
I think more than anything else I was hoping for a bit more depth to the response beyond - you wear their colours so you must die - but as before I am more interested in the response on an In-Game level.

Don't take it personally. People tend to be inherently defensive on these sorts of threads, and an innocent question can be read as passive-aggressive sea lioning. Just keep cool about it and people will see you don't mean any harm. Or they'll realize you secretly do and the elf will start trying to eat you.

Goblin Squad Member

@KC,

I actually meant about the SRG situation, but either way I see your points.

Goblin Squad Member

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TEO Cheatle wrote:
Well, until someone gives me the name of a member that actually did this, or screen shots, or basically anything at all other than "a member of TEO attacked someone in a starter settlement," I am pretty much not going to do anything. This thread is just targeting TEO without any actual evidence. Yes, a new guy accidentally took a tower out in the middle of no where, no harm no foul, but calling a member out without any actual evidence is erroneous and debasing.

I was on line when it was happening. It happened. Trying to deflect the bad behaviour of one of your members into being bad behaviour on the part of Kabal is beneath you.

The response of a good leader should be, "Thank you for informing me, I will try to ensure it won't happen again", no matter how clumsily the message was sent.

Goblin Squad Member

@Kradlum,

I wasn't deflecting at all, I wanted the information, and I finally got it tonight when I visited your Mumble.

Edit: Are you talking about the tower or the attack? Because to say "Thank you for informing me, I will try to ensure it won't happen again," I would have had to know who had done it.

I in fact said something very similar to Daeglin when I talked to him tonight, which he told me everything was all good. As for the tower, it was an honest mistake, not bad behavior, and that has been taken care of too.

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