Gregor Clegane "The Mountain That Rides"


Conversions


Gregor Clegane is perhaps the most infamously brutal sociopath in a book series full of violent, sadistic killers (and that's just the heroes!). The Mountain That Rides is a follower though, and he can make a phenomenal addition to any villain who needs a strong, mailed fist to do his dirty work.

Ser Gregor, Tywin Lannister's Mad Dog

My other character conversions, including the Avengers, Gotham Knights, and more Song of Ice and Fire can be found right here!


The traits and feat suggestions were nice, but you didn't offer any usable builds. I was expecting ready made NPC stats. Probably not enough room in your article, but a fine thought experiment never-the-less.


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Shane LeRose wrote:
The traits and feat suggestions were nice, but you didn't offer any usable builds. I was expecting ready made NPC stats. Probably not enough room in your article, but a fine thought experiment never-the-less.

I take it he's going for a "mountain feel" rather than a stat block, otherwise none of the GOT characters would be above 4th level.


The goal is to provide suggestions for players who want to accurately portray the archetype. These aren't pre-rendered versions of the characters, and the stats aren't assigned because they're meant to be PCs, not NPCs.


The guy is impossible to make without Templates and Houserules.

Hell, Most of the ASoIaF/GoT characters would need heavy houserulling.


Alex G St-Amand wrote:

The guy is impossible to make without Templates and Houserules.

Hell, Most of the ASoIaF/GoT characters would need heavy houserulling.

Why? They're just melee characters.


Sauce987654321 wrote:
Alex G St-Amand wrote:

The guy is impossible to make without Templates and Houserules.

Hell, Most of the ASoIaF/GoT characters would need heavy houserulling.

Why? They're just melee characters.

The Mountain's Ability Scores, Size, Fighting Style, Skills, Feats, etc would require quite some houserulling.

Most of the other require houserulling because they don't fit most classes/multiclasses without some houserulling, and this isn't counting the Skinchangers and the Mages...


Alex G St-Amand wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Alex G St-Amand wrote:

The guy is impossible to make without Templates and Houserules.

Hell, Most of the ASoIaF/GoT characters would need heavy houserulling.

Why? They're just melee characters.

The Mountain's Ability Scores, Size, Fighting Style, Skills, Feats, etc would require quite some houserulling.

Most of the other require houserulling because they don't fit most classes/multiclasses without some houserulling, and this isn't counting the Skinchangers and the Mages...

mountain is tall but it doesn't mean he's large. There are things 8 feet tall and still medium. Wielding a 2 hander one handed can be done with a barbarian archetype at level 2 or a fluffed large longsword. As for skills and feats, it doesn't seem like he would have many. I would need examples.

As for the rest, except skin changers and mages since you're not counting them, what do they do that can't be done without house ruling?


Sauce987654321 wrote:
Shane LeRose wrote:
The traits and feat suggestions were nice, but you didn't offer any usable builds. I was expecting ready made NPC stats. Probably not enough room in your article, but a fine thought experiment never-the-less.
I take it he's going for a "mountain feel" rather than a stat block, otherwise none of the GOT characters would be above 4th level.

Quoted for truth.

Gregor is powerful in comparison to other characters in that series, but he never does anything I would consider "high level" in Pathfinder terms.

He's just a big, strong, skilled Fighter or Barbarian.

In a setting where people don't ever get above "5th level" he's probably 4th.

Westeros is an Epic 6 setting.


Alex G St-Amand wrote:

The guy is impossible to make without Templates and Houserules.

Hell, Most of the ASoIaF/GoT characters would need heavy houserulling.

Well he would need templates for that other thing he does, but this is for the Mountain not Robert Strong.


Not that they don't follow "Levels", but more that they don't follow "Classes" and "Class Feature".


Alex G St-Amand wrote:
Not that they don't follow "Levels", but more that they don't follow "Classes" and "Class Feature".

Why not? I don't see Gregor as being any different, nor having unique skills not available on the fighter or barbarians class features. He's good at fighting with a large blade, as far as I can tell, that's the only thing the Mountain ever does. He probably has a NE alignment. A human could be as tall as the mountain is supposed to be without the need for "large" template.

The OP is offering a version of Ser Gregor Clegane as a PC build, I don't see the necessity of using such a character only in a SoIaF setting. So there's no need to consider skin changers and mages in this conversation. Only if one was trying to build an entire AP in Westeros, would the possibility even need to be considered.

I would probably build a custom class for a SoIaF skin-changer - perhaps an alternate ranger build replacing Favored Terrain and/or Favored Enemy with a skin-changer class feature.


Yeah, I still don't get how many GoT characters can't be made just using fighter levels. If GoT characters can't be modeled in pathfinder, then the game couldn't model anything.


Really... All Gregor Clegane is is a human Fighter with a 2-handed blade, a really high Str score. He borders the limit of Medium size, but he certainly doesn't reach Large.

It's impossible to mirror everything any character from fiction does, but it's very possible to get a good approximation.

Most GoT characters can be fairly well represented by low level Fighters/Rangers/Rogues/whatever.


The scale that Pathfinder goes by is very different than that of the Song of Ice and Fire series.

Like someone else had already pointed out earlier, Westeros clearly would run on an E6 system rather than classic Pathfinder.


Magic is "turning back on" in the GoT universe. Thoros is a level 9ish cleric at least. There are wizards, sorcerers, witches and druids that will experience increasing power as the old world spells start working again.


Icyshadow wrote:

The scale that Pathfinder goes by is very different than that of the Song of Ice and Fire series.

Like someone else had already pointed out earlier, Westeros clearly would run on an E6 system rather than classic Pathfinder.

It may be true that at the start of series, Westeros is comparable to E6, though clearly levels 1 - 6 are still true Pathfinder. Despite higher levels not being achieved, its still within the scale of early PF levels. You don't need a different ruleset, you just have to know that the cap starts much sooner.

JJ Jordan wrote:
Magic is "turning back on" in the GoT universe. Thoros is a level 9ish cleric at least. There are wizards, sorcerers, witches and druids that will experience increasing power as the old world spells start working again.

With the return of the dragons, magic is indeed igniting to potentially great power. The greensingers seem to be especially powerful spellcasters, even though the world apparently only has 2 such people.

E6 might have been Westeros in the first books, but it might become E9 or 10, and fit the scale of most PF gamers playing lower than the teens in levels even for a full AP.


Given Gregor's lack of finesse he seems more barbarian than fighter to me.


JJ Jordan wrote:
Magic is "turning back on" in the GoT universe. Thoros is a level 9ish cleric at least. There are wizards, sorcerers, witches and druids that will experience increasing power as the old world spells start working again.

His ability to make a weapon deal fire damage and heal someone in the dying condition can be done with a 1st level warpriest. Making him at least 9th level puts his CR higher than a 30ft. tall elemental and a remorhaz (big enough to swallow a rhino whole), in addition to allowing him to walk on water or cure blindness.

He would make characters like Mountain or Sandor look like a joke in comparison.


I haven't checked in since I posted this two months ago, apologies all, I'm actually sort of surprised there was action on this.

Since there seems to be some confusion, I will clarify the purpose behind Gregor, and all of my other character conversions. I am not offering stat blocks and exact translations of them to be used as NPCs or by DMs. What I'm doing is building a guide for players who want to make them as PCs.

There are two reasons for this. The first is because as a DM you can just decree that a thing is the way it is, and that's that. There's no real challenge except bolting together the parts you like to make your Frankenstein. The second is that I think players are more often the "I want to be X character" and so they need a guide giving them some suggestions for how to start down that path.

Hope that clears some things up!


Sauce987654321 wrote:
JJ Jordan wrote:
Magic is "turning back on" in the GoT universe. Thoros is a level 9ish cleric at least. There are wizards, sorcerers, witches and druids that will experience increasing power as the old world spells start working again.

His ability to make a weapon deal fire damage and heal someone in the dying condition can be done with a 1st level warpriest. Making him at least 9th level puts his CR higher than a 30ft. tall elemental and a remorhaz (big enough to swallow a rhino whole), in addition to allowing him to walk on water or cure blindness.

He would make characters like Mountain or Sandor look like a joke in comparison.

Obviously Westeros is not Golarion with Pathfinder rules so it's like comparing apples to grenades.

Thoros is casting some equivalent of breath of life, not cure light wounds on a person that's nearly dead. His fire sword is a chemical and not even magical. So, maybe he's a level one alchemist playing with a crazy GM that grants him a spell-like ability of breath of life.


JJ Jordan wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
JJ Jordan wrote:
Magic is "turning back on" in the GoT universe. Thoros is a level 9ish cleric at least. There are wizards, sorcerers, witches and druids that will experience increasing power as the old world spells start working again.

His ability to make a weapon deal fire damage and heal someone in the dying condition can be done with a 1st level warpriest. Making him at least 9th level puts his CR higher than a 30ft. tall elemental and a remorhaz (big enough to swallow a rhino whole), in addition to allowing him to walk on water or cure blindness.

He would make characters like Mountain or Sandor look like a joke in comparison.

Obviously Westeros is not Golarion with Pathfinder rules so it's like comparing apples to grenades.

Thoros is casting some equivalent of breath of life, not cure light wounds on a person that's nearly dead. His fire sword is a chemical and not even magical. So, maybe he's a level one alchemist playing with a crazy GM that grants him a spell-like ability of breath of life.

I understand that GoT doesn't exactly run itself with the pathfinder system, but in this case it is an appropriate comparison.

Thoros took someone's sword and gave it back to him, throw in some fluff, and it went on fire. I don't see why it being chemical or a (Su) class ability really makes a difference. After he was downed, Thoros went up to him to heal and bring back his fallen ally; which Cure Light Wounds does well.

I don't see why it's an unfair comparison when the situation can be perfectly replicated in Pathfinder with a Warpriest and probably other classes at 1st level.


Sauce987654321 wrote:


I don't see why it's an unfair comparison when the situation can be perfectly replicated in Pathfinder with a Warpriest and probably other classes at 1st level.

You can convert it however you want, but it doesn't fit perfectly whether you think about this mechanically or through the narrative alone. There may be a difference between the TV series and the books, and I am going off of the books.

Cure light wounds does not bring back fallen allies. It will stabilize a dying ally but it does not resurrect a dead ally.

Beric Dondarrion was lanced through the chest by the Mountain. Instant death. A charging critical hit by the strongest man on horseback. Just thinking about the narrative, cure light wounds is not saving that guy. He is dead.

Mechanically? Okay, it's unlikely but possible he could be saved by cure light wounds if the Mountain "rolled" minimum damage, and it wasn't a critical hit at all but George RR Martin is just really brutal with his combat descriptions.

Then Dondarrion is hung and stabbed through the eye. The dude is dead. Not dying. Dead. The level 1 warpriest is not powerful enough to solve this problem other than by building a funeral pyre. Someone with access to level 5 divine spells can do something about that.

The magic level in the world is increasing quickly. We started out with, at best, cantrips and level 1 spells and are now in the level 3-5 spell range. A minor character casts the equivalent of "remove disease" on one of the Greyjoys. So that's a level 5 cleric right there. I don't even wanna' get started on the skinchangers and greenseers in the series.


JJ Jordan wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:


I don't see why it's an unfair comparison when the situation can be perfectly replicated in Pathfinder with a Warpriest and probably other classes at 1st level.

You can convert it however you want, but it doesn't fit perfectly whether you think about this mechanically or through the narrative alone. There may be a difference between the TV series and the books, and I am going off of the books.

Cure light wounds does not bring back fallen allies. It will stabilize a dying ally but it does not resurrect a dead ally.

Beric Dondarrion was lanced through the chest by the Mountain. Instant death. A charging critical hit by the strongest man on horseback. Just thinking about the narrative, cure light wounds is not saving that guy. He is dead.

Mechanically? Okay, it's unlikely but possible he could be saved by cure light wounds if the Mountain "rolled" minimum damage, and it wasn't a critical hit at all but George RR Martin is just really brutal with his combat descriptions.

Then Dondarrion is hung and stabbed through the eye. The dude is dead. Not dying. Dead. The level 1 warpriest is not powerful enough to solve this problem other than by building a funeral pyre. Someone with access to level 5 divine spells can do something about that.

The magic level in the world is increasing quickly. We started out with, at best, cantrips and level 1 spells and are now in the level 3-5 spell range. A minor character casts the equivalent of "remove disease" on one of the Greyjoys. So that's a level 5 cleric right there. I don't even wanna' get started on the skinchangers and greenseers in the series.

Whether they were impaled in the chest by a lance or stabbed in the eye and then hung, it still deals hitpoint damage and it still allows someone with the cure spell to bring them back.

Visually, for the most part, the dying condition and dead condition aren't going to appear much different. The dying condition is sort of similar to the dead condition, as in they can't do anything but lay there. It's not like they've established that Thoros' healing ability can only bring back someone in the dying condition. To him and anyone else, the person in the dying condition is pretty much dead, in other words he's not coming back. Point is, when they are "dead" in their setting probably means dying condition mechanically in pathfinder.

it's hard to be instantly killed in pathfinder, whether it's getting an axe to the neck or being blown away by a grenade launcher. They still have a chance to be cured. A person in the dying condition without help is as good as dead anyway, even if they stabilize, which the game even points out. This is why Cure Light Wounds, even a 1st level spell, is invaluable in their setting.

Remove disease doesn't mean 5th level cleric either. The restoration subdomain allows for it to be a 2nd level spell. Assuming hero points are allowed so they can be used to cast a spell one level higher, which brings us right back to level 1. Which again makes sense, seeing that they can't do everything or probably anything else that a 5th level cleric can do.

Okay, I'm not saying that everything in GoT has to be 1st level. They could have another level or two, but my point that it, at least to me, is easy to convert with even with 1st level characters.


What else is 8 feet tall and medium?

The mountain is NOT skinny.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

What else is 8 feet tall and medium?

The mountain is NOT skinny.

Bigfoot:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary3/sasquatch.html#sasquatch

Sauce987654321 wrote:
JJ Jordan wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:


I don't see why it's an unfair comparison when the situation can be perfectly replicated in Pathfinder with a Warpriest and probably other classes at 1st level.

You can convert it however you want, but it doesn't fit perfectly whether you think about this mechanically or through the narrative alone. There may be a difference between the TV series and the books, and I am going off of the books.

Cure light wounds does not bring back fallen allies. It will stabilize a dying ally but it does not resurrect a dead ally.

Beric Dondarrion was lanced through the chest by the Mountain. Instant death. A charging critical hit by the strongest man on horseback. Just thinking about the narrative, cure light wounds is not saving that guy. He is dead.

Mechanically? Okay, it's unlikely but possible he could be saved by cure light wounds if the Mountain "rolled" minimum damage, and it wasn't a critical hit at all but George RR Martin is just really brutal with his combat descriptions.

Then Dondarrion is hung and stabbed through the eye. The dude is dead. Not dying. Dead. The level 1 warpriest is not powerful enough to solve this problem other than by building a funeral pyre. Someone with access to level 5 divine spells can do something about that.

The magic level in the world is increasing quickly. We started out with, at best, cantrips and level 1 spells and are now in the level 3-5 spell range. A minor character casts the equivalent of "remove disease" on one of the Greyjoys. So that's a level 5 cleric right there. I don't even wanna' get started on the skinchangers and greenseers in the series.

Whether they were impaled in the chest by a lance or stabbed in the eye and then hung, it still deals hitpoint damage and it still allows someone with the cure spell to bring them back.

Visually, for the most part, the dying condition and dead condition aren't going to appear much different. The dying condition is sort of similar to the dead...

As a comment on this whole thing I'm actually planning on making Thoros a paladin.

While he's referred to as a priest it's quite clear that it's his ability to imbibe copious amounts of alcohol and his skill in battle that made him one of Robert's favorite friends. While he mouthed the words of the Lord of Light he didn't believe them or follow them. He had fallen.

Then one day he believed, and re-dedicated himself. While he prays, we see him perform relatively few feats of magic. For this I'd actually suggest the Ultimate Mercy feat, combined with the story-telling caveat of "Came Back Wrong".

Those are my thoughts on this matter.

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