Feral Combat Training for Unarmed Strikes?


Rules Questions


This may sound odd and pointless, but if possible could be quite powerful and cheesy.
Can you choose Unarmed Strikes for Feral Combat Training?
As a Monk unarmed strikes count as natural weapons.
If you where to then take Martial Versatility applied to your Feral Combat Training(unarmed) the effects of Feral Combat Training would then be given to any weapon in the Close, Monk, and Natural weapon groups. This would then make any weapon in those three groups be effected by anything that enhances Unarmed Strikes.


The distinction between your unarmed attacks and natural attacks is a confusing but important one. That being said I do not think that you can select unarmed strikes as one of your natural weapons because it does not qualify as a natural weapon, its an unarmed attack.

Weapon descriptions: Strike, Unarmed wrote:
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

pipedreamsam wrote:
unarmed strikes as one of your natural weapons because it does not qualify as a natural weapon, its an unarmed attack.

Doesn't work (FCT Unarmed) and if it work, expect significant table variance without having anything you can point at to prove your case.


"A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."

Feral combat training wouldn't actually change anything about the unarmed strike because the advantages of FCT are all included in the unarmed strike to begin with. So, FCT can't be considered to be an effect that enhances or improves the monk's unarmed strike, and if it doesn't, a monk's unarmed strike doesn't qualify as a natural weapon for it.

A bit convoluted, but it does invalidate FCT by RAW.


Forseti wrote:
because the advantages of FCT are all included in the unarmed strike to begin with. So, FCT can't be considered to be an effect that enhances or improves the monk's unarmed strike,

It does not have to improve an Unarmed Strike. It has to improve natural weapons, and that is what FCT does.


Feral Combat Training is used to make Natural Attacks count as Unarmed, and for Flurry users (Sacred Fist, Monk, Brawler) this allows extraneous Natural Attacks (Bite, Wings, Tail, etc.) to count as Unarmed Strikes, thus be used as part of a Flurry, as well as get an increase in damage.

An Unarmed Warpriest, or a Natural Attack Warpriest also gains benefits from this feat for the same reasons (Natural counts as Unarmed).

FCT (Unarmed), while technically applicable to Monks, is kinda useless. Monks and other Flurriers already focus on Unarmed strikes, so FCT (Unarmed) wouldn't really get you anywhere.

Taking, for example, FCT (Wings), and then Martial Versatility (Feral Combat Training), on the other hand, does create a crazy effect wherein all your Natural Attacks all count as Unarmed for feats and ability effects. This can be a very powerful and efficient combination in the right build.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

chbgraphicarts wrote:
This can be a very powerful and efficient combination in the right build.

If it is even legal, as the application of the rules this way are very divisive. I for one wouldn't allow it as RAW and it absolutely can't possibly be RAI.


James Risner wrote:
chbgraphicarts wrote:
This can be a very powerful and efficient combination in the right build.
If it is even legal, as the application of the rules this way are very divisive. I for one wouldn't allow it as RAW and it absolutely can't possibly be RAI.
Martial Versatility wrote:
Choose one combat feat you know that applies to a specific weapon (e.g., Weapon Focus). You can use that feat with any weapon within the same weapon group.
"Feral Combat Training" wrote:
Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

Assuming you have, say, a Scion of Humanity Aasimar who has Metallic Wings, and thus has 2 Wing attacks, who has the Trait "Adopted" and was adopted by Goblins, allowing him to gain a Bite attack through Mother's Teeth, and Eldritch Heritage to gain Claw attacks from a Dargon Bloodline, not only is it RAW but also RAI for them to take Feral Combat Training (which is a Combat feat) selecting either Wing, Bite, or Claw, and then take Martial Versatility to have FCT apply to all 3 of those attack types - remember that "Natural" is a legitimate Weapon Group, as described by the Fighter, after all.


I have a 20th level theorycraft character I'm working on that is all about this. A Half-Fiend Dhampir (Eldritch Scion/10, Ninja/4, Snakebite Striker/6) He fights using martial arts, magic, and his claws, so the Feral Combat Training is a must. Add in some Belier's Bite, and things start getting scary...


chbgraphicarts wrote:
FCT (Unarmed), while technically applicable to Monks, is kinda useless.

The point is not to take FCT(Unarmed) to make unarmed better, but to use Martial Versatility to apply it to everything in a weapon group that has Unarmed in it.


Going off of this text:

Unarmed Strike (Monk) wrote:
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

I suppose it's possible, but you were right to describe it as cheesy. I definitely wouldn't expect most GM's to allow it.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Feral Combat Training for Unarmed Strikes? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.