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Seriously, though, if you really want it then hammer out the details and present a proposal. Don't expect them to do all the work for you for just because you want it. Explain how this community test is supposed to work. What is the procedure?
Y'know what? That is a pretty solid idea. I'm taking an instructional design course under my masters program and this might be a fun little thing to look into. Thanks man.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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The LN was a slip - meant LE. You would probably end up a step towards chaotic if it was 'just for fun' too, honestly.
You've also completely missed the entire point of my post to focus on one utterly unimportant detail. Not sure why you did that.
I don't want to get involved in another alignment thread, which is why I only responded to that point.
I did, however, want to mentioned that if a PC chooses to burn down an orphanage, just for fun, their alignment becomes evil. They don't move one step towards it, they are it, as per the rules text I quoted above.
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I didn't actually see this in the thread, so if i missed it I apologize. Who here actually WANTS to play an Evil character; not a thought exercise but really wants to do it? And, if so, why do you want to play it? What does a Evil character provide that can't be managed with a Neutral character? This isn't judgement, just an honest question.
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I could say I would enjoy playing my lawful evil bard/cleric of Asmodeus. Why? Because that was my first ever character in an RPG, and I had fond memories of him. Was he an evil SOB? Yup. Did he play well in a team of LG and NG party members? Yup. Because he wasn't stupid evil, and was able to put up a good front for them as well as realized that if they succeeded in their goals, so did he.
So I would if only for pure nostalgia's sake. I might just play a LN version of him in CC. Will that stop him from returning home to his slave plantation in Cheliax at the end of the day? Nope.
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In PFS? ... dunno ; PFS rules and rulings might make evil chars ... odd.
Outside of PFS, sure sign me up!
Some stories are not best told from the point of view of the "good guys" or even the "Han Solos" of the world. I've often found some of the most engaging characters to be those who would be best described as Lawful Evil (ex. Auda Ibn Jad from the Rose of the Prophet trilogy or Gerald Terrant [the "Hunter"] from C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy). Characters who have iron will and purpose, and could care less about the morality or weaknesses of others. Those with what others might call a twisted sense of honor, but one which they will not deviate from for mere convenience or social acceptability.
-TimD
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I didn't actually see this in the thread, so if i missed it I apologize. Who here actually WANTS to play an Evil character; not a thought exercise but really wants to do it? And, if so, why do you want to play it? What does a Evil character provide that can't be managed with a Neutral character? This isn't judgement, just an honest question.
Honestly? For the challenge. Heroes can be boring, they lack edge and lose out on the grayer side of life.
By playing an evil character I can get into the nitty gritty of what truly makes a hero. If bandits attack a village and I refuse to stop those bandits because my lawful good alignment keeps me standing against the direct orders of my king, am I still a hero? Lawful Good characters slaughter hundreds of people per game because according to a stat on a sheet, a paladin is good and a bandit is bad. But those bandits might just be hungry and desperate and afraid. But If I am a Neutral Evil villain who murders the bandits and saves the lives of two hundred people because someone paid me money, am I still a villain? If a Chaotic Evil person saves a man from a burning building because that man owes him money, is he a hero?
Alternatively, If I am Evil, can I love? Maybe I am evil because I care for someone so deeply that I will do anything, ANYTHING, to keep them alive. Maybe I have turned to necromancy and Uragathoa worship because I am desperate to be reunited with my dead wife and I don't give a damn about your laws or your morals because they are keeping me from reuniting with the woman I love.
When you say to me "Evil", I think "Wow, great Roleplaying potential."
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I didn't actually see this in the thread, so if i missed it I apologize. Who here actually WANTS to play an Evil character; not a thought exercise but really wants to do it? And, if so, why do you want to play it? What does a Evil character provide that can't be managed with a Neutral character? This isn't judgement, just an honest question.
Personally I have no desire to play an evil character, I don't find it all that fun. In experience roleplaying outside of Pathfinder I have come across people that seem to enjoy it and more than that they tend to make characters that are quite interesting and fun to play with.
I also agree that a character doesn't need to be evil for a player to be disruptive but really that's an issue completely separate from alignment.
Aside from the PFS, I don't see a problem with allowing any alignment.
Now introducing an evil character into a primarily good party, now that sets up serious conflicts that are usually going to be undesirable.
But a lot of characters in RPGs are very 2 or even 1 dimensional.
Evil often means nasty all the time, even when its stupid. Now my evil characters behave well towards people they expect to be able to rely on in dangerous situations eg fellow party members. That is not good, it just shows a modicum of intelligence.
And I don't think there is much problem with the CN alignment per se. Its just played by the players who want to be evil and behave antisocially, but they can't be evil, so they play CN instead, or more correctly be evil and behave antisocially and call it being CN.
And a lot of Pathfinder play is you play the good guys who go out and fight evil. Having evil party members does not fit at all.
Now this isn't exactly a good mirror of the way the world really works. In fact I think some of the most dangerous people you can ever really encounter think they are the good guys going around slaying evil. You can find them in Al Quieda and ISIS.
But its not supposed to be realistic or a description of the real world. Its fantasy fun often played by older kids.
You can certainly set up a Pathfinder campaign that is less simplistic.
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I could say I would enjoy playing my lawful evil bard/cleric of Asmodeus. Why? Because that was my first ever character in an RPG, and I had fond memories of him. Was he an evil SOB? Yup. Did he play well in a team of LG and NG party members? Yup. Because he wasn't stupid evil, and was able to put up a good front for them as well as realized that if they succeeded in their goals, so did he.
So I would if only for pure nostalgia's sake. I might just play a LN version of him in CC. Will that stop him from returning home to his slave plantation in Cheliax at the end of the day? Nope.
In the context of PFS, how would this character play differently if he had LE on his sheet instead of LN?
is, how would I, sitting across the table as either a fellow player or GM, know the difference (other than magic that affects different alignments differently)?
I think that's the key point. How does it affect others?
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Lawful Good characters slaughter hundreds of people per game because according to a stat on a sheet, a paladin is good and a bandit is bad.
I don't know what LG characters you hang out with, but mine kill bandits because the bandits are trying to kill them first. They've never refused a surrender.
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Lawful Good characters slaughter hundreds of people per game because according to a stat on a sheet, a paladin is good and a bandit is bad.I don't know what LG characters you hang out with, but mine kill bandits because the bandits are trying to kill them first. They've never refused a surrender.
Mine only deals nonlethal damage against living creatures.
You've also completely missed the entire point of my post to focus on one utterly unimportant detail. Not sure why you did that.Just how long have you been on the internet that you're still surprised? :P
Touche!
And: too long.
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I could say I would enjoy playing my lawful evil bard/cleric of Asmodeus. Why? Because that was my first ever character in an RPG, and I had fond memories of him. Was he an evil SOB? Yup. Did he play well in a team of LG and NG party members? Yup. Because he wasn't stupid evil, and was able to put up a good front for them as well as realized that if they succeeded in their goals, so did he.
So I would if only for pure nostalgia's sake. I might just play a LN version of him in CC. Will that stop him from returning home to his slave plantation in Cheliax at the end of the day? Nope.
In the context of PFS, how would this character play differently if he had LE on his sheet instead of LN?
is, how would I, sitting across the table as either a fellow player or GM, know the difference (other than magic that affects different alignments differently)?
I think that's the key point. How does it affect others?
In the context of PFS? Probably not much different. A bit more ruthless, a bit more tolerant of evil going on around him, and certainly more willing to go out and avenge his lover's murder in the most brutal way possible... Certainly more of a Judge Dredd type character.
When I play an RPG, I build a character. If that character happens to be evil, I am not one to arbitrarily call that character neutral when they are not. If on balance, their actions would have them pop up as evil in the eyes of a Paladin, well then, that's how he's played. Outside of PFS I tend not to give my character an alignment until I am able to play them for at least a level. I decide the alignment then based on how I play them (unless of course I have a character that is locked into an alignment due to their class.
As has been stated before a character's actions should determine their alignment, not the other way around. This character's actions just so happened to push him into the LE territory.
EDIT: This is not a reason why it should be allowed in PFS. I think the majority agrees that shouldn't be the case. But if I had the option, would I? Yeah, it'd be fun to play that character again.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Personally, I have felt for the longest time that if a person has atleast three stars as a GM for the society, he should be allowed to build an evil character, five star GMs should be allowed to play antipaladins and such.
These people have shown immense skill at roleplaying and resolving each alginment, I am more than certain they could handle an evil character and keep it in good taste.
Ok. Locally we have a long term player and 3 star GM who routinely plays Chaotic Nuetral characters. In a previous organised play campaign, he played a character that was all about gaining power. To the point of handing over an artifact to a clearly evil DEMON. In front of the party. Due to no PVP rules, no one could stop him. Kinda puts a bad feeling out there when it is in the last day of the con and causes you to fail the mission.
Also, another player, who regularly plays with him, plays Chaotic Nuetral a lot as well. He is a 4 star GM. Put them together and there have been a few cases in PFS where i have been extremely tempted to mark evil actions. One local GM did it and there was a massive explosion of rage at them even though there actions made other players at the table uncomfortable. The GM was right, but the "experienced" players were not aware of a ruling from Mike Brock regarding certain actions being evil.
Basically, giving people the option of playing evil of any kind, or skirting the edges of it can create an absolute nightmare.
I think if something like this were to happen, and I was a player at that table, smacking some sense into the offending character/sundering the damn item would have been an appropriate reaction.
That or the offending character suddenly does not longer count as my ally.Yeah it may clash with the "cooperate" part the mission statement, but the PVP rule seems clear cut to me "don't cause character death".
If no one checks bad behavior like this, it only gets worse. Once we had to stop my brothers druid (in DSA a german RPG), since he wanted to infect the enemy army (and subsequently a lot of other people ) with pox.... we ended up googeling pictures of people with the plague.
The don't be evil rule is one of the very few tools to address those issues.
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Hey! I'll have you know that my CN gnome has partially burnt down the blakros museum only 3 or 4 times, and has managed to marry into their family despite all the times that she stol- yeah, I see your point.
That's not a marriage contract you put your soul up as collateral.
At much better rates than we were offering you but still...