5000 Years of Rain of Stars? Wouldn't it make more sense after Aroden's Demise?


Iron Gods

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay, great adventure path, but the extreme age of everything is kind of getting to me.

Our AI / Android heroine has been hiding away for 500 years. Yup. 500 years. We have a ship that crashed 5 millenia ago, if not more.

Is there a compelling region for this kind of age? After all, the Numeria we see isn't like the Land of the Mammoth Lords to the North, where things are pretty standard Kellish. It's the irradiated, dessicated husk of super science vs. barbarism.

Moreover, it's pretty clear from the last part of the AP that the Silver Mount isn't thoroughly explored - but the Technic League has been going strong for thousands of years???

It just doesn't jive right.

What I propose is that Numeria had been bombarded by periodic waves of debris from the Divinity for a long time. Perhaps thousands of years - time distortion and whatnot. But it wasn't the big stuff.

The main husk of the ship falls onto Numeria when all the other stuff is happening around Golarion circa Aroden's demise - the Worldwound, the Eye, etc.

This creates a post-apocalyptic wasteland that's still kind of being explored, explains why there are robotic killers running around, and why the Technic League is still figuring all this stuff out. Starfall built in the rubble in the center of the vast, slowly recovering crater. The city is probably always inundated with water as a lake fills the crater, making exploration of the ship ever more hazardous, and making the city more like Bladerunner than Generic Evil Fantasy City 6.

It also helps out how Unity and the robots and the androids and everything else is still functioning after the crash - it's been 10 decades, not 5 millennia.

Thoughts? So much of Golarion is so old, and it just doesn't seem like it has to be, or that it helps the story along.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Technic League hasn't been going strong for thousands of years, though. The alien debris has been there for 5000 years, but the Technic League is recent enough that they did not exist in Casandalee's time. Remember, for most of Numeria's history, the Kellids tried to bury or destroy anything alien.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Rain of Stars was 9,000 years ago:-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I will only comment on one thing, as I have little time right now:

If Casandale is only 500 years old, than the Technic League hasn't been going strong for thousands of years, because if I remember correctly there was no Technic League around, when Casandale entered the Silver Mount first.

Shadow Lodge

Technic League has only been around for around about 200 years. 4509 was when they first started exploring Silver Mount and the current Golarion year is 4715.

As for when Aroden died, that was only 4606, a little over 100 years ago.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The founder of the Technic League started organizing in 4501 AR, and the group didn't enter Silver Mount for another 8 years.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay. But still.

How are these fluids still leaking, etc.?

I get the robots created these weird repair code ecosystems within the Divinity, but wouldn't Numeria be cooler if, instead of a reclaimed barbarian paradise with some super science, it was instead, a post-apocalyptic techno-barbarian insaneistan?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It *is* pretty post-apocalyptic. The capital city's primary import is *food and water* because it's all but impossible to grow crops anywhere but the Numerian Plains. The Felldales, where most of the debris hit, are specifically noted as being basically a wasteland. The thing about the Rain of Stars happening when it did, is that Golarion was only just out of the Age of Darkness. The world was putting itself back together after one apocalypse, and a smaller-scale one promptly hit Numeria.

The robots and technology are still working because of SCIENCE--and even then, a considerable amount of the technology has the Timeworn quality to represent exactly that question--likely to glitch unpredictably, and to completely die when it runs out of power, no recharging possible

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Yakman wrote:

Okay. But still.

How are these fluids still leaking, etc.?

I get the robots created these weird repair code ecosystems within the Divinity, but wouldn't Numeria be cooler if, instead of a reclaimed barbarian paradise with some super science, it was instead, a post-apocalyptic techno-barbarian insaneistan?

I think the great age of the Divinity results from the tradition of ancient ruins in Fantasy Settings.

But, I get where you are coming from though. Even with only being founded in 4501 A.R., the Technic League should have made more progress.

B.T.W., even notice how disorganized and ineffective the Technic League is at controlling technology - even though it somehow kept super-science from spreading into the neighboring nations.


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Yakman wrote:
How are these fluids still leaking, etc.?

They may not (I'd argue have not) have been leaking for the entire period of time. More than likely, many of these breakdowns and leaks are relatively recent- the inevitable result of time and decay on even super-strong and futuristic compounds and metals. Reactors that finally give out, etc.

Not to mention that a lot of this stuff is nuclear and toxic, and without any active efforts to clean it up, can and will linger for ages and ages. No need to look much further than our own modern day society, and the issues we have with waste disposal and cleanup- and we actively (in many cases) try to clean this stuff up, something that is more likely than not going on in Numeria, which lacks the tools, population, and organizational methods that the modern world has.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:
Yakman wrote:

Okay. But still.

How are these fluids still leaking, etc.?

I get the robots created these weird repair code ecosystems within the Divinity, but wouldn't Numeria be cooler if, instead of a reclaimed barbarian paradise with some super science, it was instead, a post-apocalyptic techno-barbarian insaneistan?

I think the great age of the Divinity results from the tradition of ancient ruins in Fantasy Settings.

But, I get where you are coming from though. Even with only being founded in 4501 A.R., the Technic League should have made more progress.

B.T.W., even notice how disorganized and ineffective the Technic League is at controlling technology - even though it somehow kept super-science from spreading into the neighboring nations.

Considering how much that progress is handicapped by the (dis-)organizational structure, secrecy between its members, and (until recently, with Kevoth-Kul becoming the Black Sovereign and falling under their control) limited political/economic power, the Technic League probably spent much of the time since the murder of Sidrah Imeruss hoarding bits of tech to figure how to use it and stealing from each other rather than actually trying to really understand how it worked.

Without some way to recharge most tech items (like a reactor, which are pretty rare items even in Numeria, or the spell recharge, which is almost unknown outside of Numeria and expensive to boot), they quickly become useless (or mostly so) curiosities. To paraphrase Eli Whitney (on interchangeable parts, not his more famous cotton gin), you need to build better tools to build the better tools to build the even better tools to build the much better tools to build the tremendously better tools to even begin to be able to produce industrial-age tech like that in WWI Russia in Rasputin Must Die!. The super-science of Divinity is several orders more advanced than that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

While I do have issues at times with the age of Golarion, I actually don't think the Divinity crash is one of those aspects that bother me. At the minimum, the Divinity crash needs to be long enough before the rise of the modern nations to explain why there has been comparatively little interest in the region. Had the Divinity crash been only a few hundreds of years ago, Taldor and all the other existing Inner Sea powers would have been fighting to get a hold of the tech, most of which would not be buried or hidden.

As for the age of the technology, its super science...Androffans obviously built things to last, a feat that is probably not that difficult for a society that mastered interstellar travel.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Dragonchess Player wrote:
Considering how much that progress is handicapped by the (dis-)organizational structure, secrecy between its members, and (until recently, with Kevoth-Kul becoming the Black Sovereign and falling under their control) limited political/economic power, the Technic League probably spent much of the time since the murder of Sidrah Imeruss hoarding bits of tech to figure how to use it and stealing from each other rather than actually trying to really understand how it worked.

So, what you're saying is that had Sidrah Imeruss been a better judge of character, the Technic League and Numeria would be vastly more advanced (and powerful) then they are now.


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Lord Fyre wrote:
B.T.W., even notice how disorganized and ineffective the Technic League is at controlling technology - even though it somehow kept super-science from spreading into the neighboring nations.

My reading of the Technic League is that it doesn't really care about the spread of technology as much as it claims, because most Androffan technology is useless or redundant to magic, much of the good stuff will break before anyone figures it out, and the rest is literal toxic waste.

The League does care about the spread of its studies of technology, and while it's internally dysfunctional the League somehow gets awfully competent in a hurry toward defectors or when so much as a League book winds up in a third party's hands. Some clubs are really disorganized and anarchistic, but the first rule of them is still, well, you know.

Iron Gods:
In other words, I think the only thing the League effectively prevents the spread of is itself, largely by the design of its mostly Kellid, clannish, petty-warlords-with-lasers leadership post-Sidrah. Sort of ruling an already beaten-down nation while huffing space gasoline, shoving cyberware in weird places, and instigating high school-level drama is all they can or want to handle, and shutting down anything that threatens to expose anyone remotely competent to the stuff they're sitting on is the only thing they actually take seriously.

Unity brings out the League's potential through Ozmyn and provides a glimpse at what it would have looked like if Sidrah managed to stay in power and properly develop what was left of the Divinity, and of course most everybody else in the League who isn't blindly enthralled hates it and wants to bring it back down to the status quo.

What I don't understand about the slow spread of Numerian technology is the lack of visible Alkenstari activity in Numeria. Alkenstar's bootstrapping Golarion's natively developed technology for much better reasons (survival) than the League (bro totally slam this green stuff bro), and despite the distance I'd expect at least a couple organized Gunworks, Lithos Clan, or even Blythir College* expeditions, rather than a few thugs, outcasts, Brigh clergy randos, and fleeing criminals independently rifling (snerk) through Numeria.

*:
The what-could-possiblyness of Blythir graduates would make them such perfect fits in Numeria. "Giant robot scorpion? Can it randomly wish you out of existence? No? Big deal! Sounds even weaker than my junior-year midterms, and that only killed four of my classmates. Here, hold my wandshotgun."


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Alkenstar however is still very isolated...Numeria just might be poorly known to them, and only the eccentrics (that you list) have taken an interest.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Considering how much that progress is handicapped by the (dis-)organizational structure, secrecy between its members, and (until recently, with Kevoth-Kul becoming the Black Sovereign and falling under their control) limited political/economic power, the Technic League probably spent much of the time since the murder of Sidrah Imeruss hoarding bits of tech to figure how to use it and stealing from each other rather than actually trying to really understand how it worked.
So, what you're saying is that had Sidrah Imeruss been a better judge of character, the Technic League and Numeria would be vastly more advanced (and powerful) then they are now.

Perhaps.

Of course, then the Technic League may have run into Unity sooner... And fallen even more under his control (along with the rest of Numeria).


One of the reasons the League has been able to strenghten it's grasp on Numeria is because of the Worldwound I think. All the people who have the power and influence to investigate and challenge the League are more focused on taking out the demons. By this point the League can easily take out the occasional loner or group who comes to investigate.


Also, you only find the stuff that works. It's rarely worth mentioning the heaps and piles of broken lazer rifles.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I recall reading James Jacobs mention that, in retrospect, they should have had Starfall (ie, the apocalypse that wiped out Azlant/Thassilon) occur only a few thousand years ago. However, when the Pathfinder campaign setting was first being developed, the authors wanted to make sure there was plenty of wiggle-room in its time line. The same logic may have applied to the Rain of Stars in Numeria.

I agree that the massive stretch of time is a bit tough to believe. We're talking a period equivalent to the real-world beginning of human civilization all the way to the modern day. By all rights, the remains of the ship that crashed into Numeria should have been picked over a thousandfold, and mostly reclaimed by nature.

As for the bulk of Silver Mountain not yet being explored: that's not entirely true. There are Pathfinders and past Technic League captains (most mentioned in Divinity Drive) who have made it quite deep, and some of the latter ended up choosing to live in their new found domains instead of going back to Numeria. Other than that, Silver Mountain is a very high-level and dangerous place. It's comparable to equally old, dangerous, and still unexplored ruins like Thassilon's Hollow Mountain or Xin-Shalast.

Sczarni

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Garrett Guillotte wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
B.T.W., even notice how disorganized and ineffective the Technic League is at controlling technology - even though it somehow kept super-science from spreading into the neighboring nations.

My reading of the Technic League is that it doesn't really care about the spread of technology as much as it claims, because most Androffan technology is useless or redundant to magic, much of the good stuff will break before anyone figures it out, and the rest is literal toxic waste.

The League does care about the spread of its studies of technology, and while it's internally dysfunctional the League somehow gets awfully competent in a hurry toward defectors or when so much as a League book winds up in a third party's hands.

But isn't that the opposite of why the Technic league is hunting the main character in City of the Fallen Sky. they aren't hunting him for defecting, and he's not teaching others their secrets at the time, but instead they hunt him because he has 3 baubles from the sky mount. Its been a while since I read, that book, so I MAY be wrong....


Generic Villain wrote:

{. . .}

I agree that the massive stretch of time is a bit tough to believe. We're talking a period equivalent to the real-world beginning of human civilization all the way to the modern day. By all rights, the remains of the ship that crashed into Numeria should have been picked over a thousandfold, and mostly reclaimed by nature. {. . .}

This won't help with microbes, roaches, and the simpler plants, but if the remains dosed the area with enough radioisotopes having half lives in the low thousands of years, that would keep most of nature out for a while. This would have to be a Chernobyl+++, though -- nature seems to be doing a pretty good job of reclaiming the area around Chernobyl, if not Chernobyl itself.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

There is another problem with the 9000 years ago.

Technological societies do not build their equipment to last thousands of years. Unlike the ancient, technological cultures do not expect the world to be the same 200 years from now, let alone thousands of years.

Avoiding the cynical "planned obsolescence," the fact that the equipment would last a couple of hundred years would be a side-effect of designing for the rigors of Space Travel. The idea that it would last thousands of years doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


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I, too, have found it a bit unbelievable that anything will be working at all in 9,000 years. But then I realized this is a setting where bards can use the power of song to make buildings explode, where wizards control the fabric of the universe by making gangster signs and speaking gibberish, and where people can get god powers by touching a giant magical rock from outer space.

Yes, those examples are all distinctly non-technological and has everything to do with magic. The point is that if a setting already has that kinda stuff in it, I think I can overlook alien technology somehow still functioning even after a massive span of time.

Your mileage may vary of course. That's just how I see it.


Neongelion wrote:

I, too, have found it a bit unbelievable that anything will be working at all in 9,000 years. But then I realized this is a setting where bards can use the power of song to make buildings explode, where wizards control the fabric of the universe by making gangster signs and speaking gibberish, and where people can get god powers by touching a giant magical rock from outer space.

Yes, those examples are all distinctly non-technological and has everything to do with magic. The point is that if a setting already has that kinda stuff in it, I think I can overlook alien technology somehow still functioning even after a massive span of time.

Your mileage may vary of course. That's just how I see it.

It's also a pretty common trope for mysterious alien technology. However ever old it actually is, it works or breaks on the needs of the plot.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:

There is another problem with the 9000 years ago.

Technological societies do not build their equipment to last thousands of years. Unlike the ancient, technological cultures do not expect the world to be the same 200 years from now, let alone thousands of years.

Avoiding the cynical "planned obsolescence," the fact that the equipment would last a couple of hundred years would be a side-effect of designing for the rigors of Space Travel. The idea that it would last thousands of years doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

That's kind of based though on our own technological trends. I don't necessarily see a problem with a society more advanced than us building tech to last.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Generic Villain wrote:

I recall reading James Jacobs mention that, in retrospect, they should have had Starfall (ie, the apocalypse that wiped out Azlant/Thassilon) occur only a few thousand years ago. However, when the Pathfinder campaign setting was first being developed, the authors wanted to make sure there was plenty of wiggle-room in its time line. The same logic may have applied to the Rain of Stars in Numeria.

This is correct.

Had I a time machine, I would have strongly pushed to condense Golarion's historical timeline by about a factor of ten, just to make things a bit more compact. Perhaps not THAT long. Complicating things there is the fact that several races, including some PC races, DO live for hundreds of years, so the scale doesn't perfectly work there. In a world where you have elves, known history WOULD be longer, and that means we still would need a pretty long timeline to account for that.

Either that, or we would have needed to drastically shorten the lifespan of elves and dragons and the like, and at the time, that was too much for us in our quest for backwards compatibly.

In the end, if it's breaking verisimilitude too much to have such vast lengths of time... my suggestion is to reduce the time by a factor of ten. You might run into some weird things with elf PCs if you do... but it might be worth the change for you.


MMCJawa: That's kind of based though on our own technological trends. I don't necessarily see a problem with a society more advanced than us building tech to last.

Especially considering a culture that is advanced enough to have interstellar, worm-hole using technology, they could have easily had terraformimg and atmospheric-controlling technologies as well, which would almost definitely be built to survive time and circumstance.


Neongelion wrote:

I, too, have found it a bit unbelievable that anything will be working at all in 9,000 years. But then I realized this is a setting where bards can use the power of song to make buildings explode, where wizards control the fabric of the universe by making gangster signs and speaking gibberish, and where people can get god powers by touching a giant magical rock from outer space.

Yes, those examples are all distinctly non-technological and has everything to do with magic. The point is that if a setting already has that kinda stuff in it, I think I can overlook alien technology somehow still functioning even after a massive span of time.

Your mileage may vary of course. That's just how I see it.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.


Engineers try to make things sturdier then they need to be. For an exploration vessel they probably tought up every problem and hazard they could and tried to make sure the ship could take twice that. Sure, it didn;t help them much against the Dominion, but most of the ship staid in one piece. That's still an impressive feat.


Cpt_kirstov wrote:
Garrett Guillotte wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
B.T.W., even notice how disorganized and ineffective the Technic League is at controlling technology - even though it somehow kept super-science from spreading into the neighboring nations.

My reading of the Technic League is that it doesn't really care about the spread of technology as much as it claims, because most Androffan technology is useless or redundant to magic, much of the good stuff will break before anyone figures it out, and the rest is literal toxic waste.

The League does care about the spread of its studies of technology, and while it's internally dysfunctional the League somehow gets awfully competent in a hurry toward defectors or when so much as a League book winds up in a third party's hands.

But isn't that the opposite of why the Technic league is hunting the main character in City of the Fallen Sky. they aren't hunting him for defecting, and he's not teaching others their secrets at the time, but instead they hunt him because he has 3 baubles from the sky mount. Its been a while since I read, that book, so I MAY be wrong....

Spoiler:
The League (well, Gannix) started after Alaeron for defecting, and likely got much more interested in him when he activated a powerful tech artifact in front of them—it's one thing to grab some tech and run, but another altogether to leave with an understanding of how it works, even if Alaeron didn't understand it as well as he might have appeared to.

Also, Kormak at least said he had instructions to bring Alaeron back along with the artifacts (though killing Alaeron was also fine). Either way, it seemed unlikely that simply returning the artifacts was enough.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

"'Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!'"

"What's with the quotation marks? Who said that?"

"ME!"


Lord Fyre wrote:

There is another problem with the 9000 years ago.

Technological societies do not build their equipment to last thousands of years. Unlike the ancient, technological cultures do not expect the world to be the same 200 years from now, let alone thousands of years.

Avoiding the cynical "planned obsolescence," the fact that the equipment would last a couple of hundred years would be a side-effect of designing for the rigors of Space Travel. The idea that it would last thousands of years doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Keep in mind that the non-timeworn pieces of technology were neither in use nor exposed to the elements all those years, in most cases they were in sealed rooms/containers until quite recently, the same is true about the robots.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:

I recall reading James Jacobs mention that, in retrospect, they should have had Starfall (ie, the apocalypse that wiped out Azlant/Thassilon) occur only a few thousand years ago. However, when the Pathfinder campaign setting was first being developed, the authors wanted to make sure there was plenty of wiggle-room in its time line. The same logic may have applied to the Rain of Stars in Numeria.

This is correct.

Had I a time machine, I would have strongly pushed to condense Golarion's historical timeline by about a factor of ten, just to make things a bit more compact. Perhaps not THAT long. Complicating things there is the fact that several races, including some PC races, DO live for hundreds of years, so the scale doesn't perfectly work there. In a world where you have elves, known history WOULD be longer, and that means we still would need a pretty long timeline to account for that.

Either that, or we would have needed to drastically shorten the lifespan of elves and dragons and the like, and at the time, that was too much for us in our quest for backwards compatibly.

In the end, if it's breaking verisimilitude too much to have such vast lengths of time... my suggestion is to reduce the time by a factor of ten. You might run into some weird things with elf PCs if you do... but it might be worth the change for you.

To say nothing of intelligent magical items that might recall the previous ages, though I suspect they'd fall under the category of "extremely unreliable and biased narrator."


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Re: Time-scale.

Considering that our recorded history stretches back about 5,000 years (or even more, depending on the definition of "recorded" vs. "written"), Golarion's "known" history is only about 2-3 times as long. With several intelligent creatures with much longer lifespans than us, 2-3 times isn't a huge stretch (IMO).


^Actually, that's a good point.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:

I recall reading James Jacobs mention that, in retrospect, they should have had Starfall (ie, the apocalypse that wiped out Azlant/Thassilon) occur only a few thousand years ago. However, when the Pathfinder campaign setting was first being developed, the authors wanted to make sure there was plenty of wiggle-room in its time line. The same logic may have applied to the Rain of Stars in Numeria.

This is correct.

Had I a time machine, I would have strongly pushed to condense Golarion's historical timeline by about a factor of ten, just to make things a bit more compact. Perhaps not THAT long. Complicating things there is the fact that several races, including some PC races, DO live for hundreds of years, so the scale doesn't perfectly work there. In a world where you have elves, known history WOULD be longer, and that means we still would need a pretty long timeline to account for that.

Either that, or we would have needed to drastically shorten the lifespan of elves and dragons and the like, and at the time, that was too much for us in our quest for backwards compatibly.

In the end, if it's breaking verisimilitude too much to have such vast lengths of time... my suggestion is to reduce the time by a factor of ten. You might run into some weird things with elf PCs if you do... but it might be worth the change for you.

not to nitpick, but with the elves and their little portals to Castrovel, there was a nice out there to short cut their long history - they are all on another planet, and only recently arrived (comparatively) in numbers.

As for elf PCs, they can be hanging out in a forest or jungle-adventure planet...

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Yakman wrote:

not to nitpick, but with the elves and their little portals to Castrovel, there was a nice out there to short cut their long history - they are all on another planet, and only recently arrived (comparatively) in numbers.

As for elf PCs, they can be hanging out in a forest or jungle-adventure planet...

That still doesn't resolve some other the other long lived races, such as Dragons, Dwarves, or Gnomes.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:
Yakman wrote:

not to nitpick, but with the elves and their little portals to Castrovel, there was a nice out there to short cut their long history - they are all on another planet, and only recently arrived (comparatively) in numbers.

As for elf PCs, they can be hanging out in a forest or jungle-adventure planet...

That still doesn't resolve some other the other long lived races, such as Dragons, Dwarves, or Gnomes.

In fact, in 3.5 Golarion, Gnomes would have been an even bigger concern than Elves; in the original Campaign Setting book, Gnomes were actually immortal barring being killed or succumbing to the Bleaching.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:
Yakman wrote:

not to nitpick, but with the elves and their little portals to Castrovel, there was a nice out there to short cut their long history - they are all on another planet, and only recently arrived (comparatively) in numbers.

As for elf PCs, they can be hanging out in a forest or jungle-adventure planet...

That still doesn't resolve some other the other long lived races, such as Dragons, Dwarves, or Gnomes.

yeah, but gnomes are from the first world, so their story is a bit transient.

dwarves should always be dwarves.

dragons, well... dragons is dragons.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Yakman wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Yakman wrote:

not to nitpick, but with the elves and their little portals to Castrovel, there was a nice out there to short cut their long history - they are all on another planet, and only recently arrived (comparatively) in numbers.

As for elf PCs, they can be hanging out in a forest or jungle-adventure planet...

That still doesn't resolve some other the other long lived races, such as Dragons, Dwarves, or Gnomes.
dragons, well... dragons is dragons.

A Dragon loaded down with cybernetics and a rocket launcher cyber armament wielding a huge Chainsaw, now thats f+#*ing metal!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
captain yesterday wrote:
Yakman wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Yakman wrote:

not to nitpick, but with the elves and their little portals to Castrovel, there was a nice out there to short cut their long history - they are all on another planet, and only recently arrived (comparatively) in numbers.

As for elf PCs, they can be hanging out in a forest or jungle-adventure planet...

That still doesn't resolve some other the other long lived races, such as Dragons, Dwarves, or Gnomes.
dragons, well... dragons is dragons.
A Dragon loaded down with cybernetics and a rocket launcher cyber armament wielding a huge Chainsaw, now thats f%~~ing metal!

something like this would have been appreciated in the AP. Some iconic DnD monster kitted out like a friggin terminator. We get the Gargoyle, but... yeah. Cybugbears or Androozoids or something...

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hey, I think we did pretty good for our first outing with the Tech rules. I know The Powers That Be were holding their breaths hoping the response for the AP would be good, but now that it's done, and they can reflect on the sales numbers, there might be some Numerian influences spreading to APs down the line...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Oh i'm beyond satisfied with Iron Gods, Crystal especially nailed her chapter:-)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Misroi wrote:
Hey, I think we did pretty good for our first outing with the Tech rules. I know The Powers That Be were holding their breaths hoping the response for the AP would be good, but now that it's done, and they can reflect on the sales numbers, there might be some Numerian influences spreading to APs down the line...

Or, better yet, how about a parallel "Space Opera" line?


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Lord Fyre wrote:
Misroi wrote:
Hey, I think we did pretty good for our first outing with the Tech rules. I know The Powers That Be were holding their breaths hoping the response for the AP would be good, but now that it's done, and they can reflect on the sales numbers, there might be some Numerian influences spreading to APs down the line...
Or, better yet, how about a parallel "Space Opera" line?

I'm banking on a Distant Worlds AP. Though they probably wouldn't be able to do all the planets.

Not exactly a space opera, but a Dominion Invasion AP is also promising.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Acolyte of Mushu wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Misroi wrote:
Hey, I think we did pretty good for our first outing with the Tech rules. I know The Powers That Be were holding their breaths hoping the response for the AP would be good, but now that it's done, and they can reflect on the sales numbers, there might be some Numerian influences spreading to APs down the line...
Or, better yet, how about a parallel "Space Opera" line?

I'm banking on a Distant Worlds AP. Though they probably wouldn't be able to do all the planets.

Not exactly a space opera, but a Dominion Invasion AP is also promising.

Not quite what I was suggesting though.

One way of dealing with the Tech/Magic divide is to divide them.

Many players who have a problem with technology in their fantasy would have no problem with the same technology in a Sci-Fi genre game.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:
Misroi wrote:
Hey, I think we did pretty good for our first outing with the Tech rules. I know The Powers That Be were holding their breaths hoping the response for the AP would be good, but now that it's done, and they can reflect on the sales numbers, there might be some Numerian influences spreading to APs down the line...
Or, better yet, how about a parallel "Space Opera" line?

no. but a space opera AP could be pretty sweet. i'd pay $$$$$ for a big set of space opera rules HINT HINT HINT

put more directly:

Paizo SpellJammer Rules = Yakman $$$$$$

Make it happen JJ.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Yakman wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Misroi wrote:
Hey, I think we did pretty good for our first outing with the Tech rules. I know The Powers That Be were holding their breaths hoping the response for the AP would be good, but now that it's done, and they can reflect on the sales numbers, there might be some Numerian influences spreading to APs down the line...
Or, better yet, how about a parallel "Space Opera" line?

no. but a space opera AP could be pretty sweet. i'd pay $$$$$ for a big set of space opera rules HINT HINT HINT

put more directly:

Paizo SpellJammer Rules = Yakman $$$$$$

Make it happen JJ.

Pathfinder compatible Space Opera rules already exist. But they need more adventure support.

Another option is the Santiago AP. Unfortunately, it follow the book at little too closely (and needs to come out a little faster).

Though, I agree that something official would be completely awesome!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:
Yakman wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Misroi wrote:
Hey, I think we did pretty good for our first outing with the Tech rules. I know The Powers That Be were holding their breaths hoping the response for the AP would be good, but now that it's done, and they can reflect on the sales numbers, there might be some Numerian influences spreading to APs down the line...
Or, better yet, how about a parallel "Space Opera" line?

no. but a space opera AP could be pretty sweet. i'd pay $$$$$ for a big set of space opera rules HINT HINT HINT

put more directly:

Paizo SpellJammer Rules = Yakman $$$$$$

Make it happen JJ.

Pathfinder compatible Space Opera rules already exist. But they need more adventure support.

Another option is the Santiago AP. Unfortunately, it follow the book at little too closely (and needs to come out a little faster).

Though, I agree that something official would be completely awesome!

i have the IT CAME FROM THE SKIES guide by Zombie Sky Press, which is just dandy

but it's missing something that I can't quite put my finger on (it's the utterly ridiculous neogi).

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Yakman wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Yakman wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Misroi wrote:
Hey, I think we did pretty good for our first outing with the Tech rules. I know The Powers That Be were holding their breaths hoping the response for the AP would be good, but now that it's done, and they can reflect on the sales numbers, there might be some Numerian influences spreading to APs down the line...
Or, better yet, how about a parallel "Space Opera" line?

no. but a space opera AP could be pretty sweet. i'd pay $$$$$ for a big set of space opera rules HINT HINT HINT

put more directly:

Paizo SpellJammer Rules = Yakman $$$$$$

Make it happen JJ.

Pathfinder compatible Space Opera rules already exist. But they need more adventure support.

Another option is the Santiago AP. Unfortunately, it follow the book at little too closely (and needs to come out a little faster).

Though, I agree that something official would be completely awesome!

i have the IT CAME FROM THE SKIES guide by Zombie Sky Press, which is just dandy

but it's missing something that I can't quite put my finger on (it's the utterly ridiculous neogi).

Looks like it needs more adventure support.

Still, it is not "tech" enough for me.

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