|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I've known about this for a while, but just re-realized it when I wanted to give my Core Cleric of Abadar the "Eyes and Ears of the City" Trait (normally found in the APG).
The Traits Web Enhancement is mostly a reprint of the APG rules that introduced Traits. It explains what the different categories are, and lists a small selection of them.
But, despite categorizing Race, Region, and Religion Traits, it doesn't have any. Campaign Traits are missing, too, but that I can understand.
Why is the Traits Web Enhancement incomplete?
Is it possible we can get it updated with the entire listing found in the APG?
Seems now is the perfect time to do so.
Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
|
Chris is correct. The Second Darkness Player's Guide, which was published under 3.5 rules in 2008, the year before the Pathfinder Core Rulebook was ever released (to say nothing of the APG in 2010), introduces the concept of traits and has the first list of Basic Traits, plus some AP-specific Campaign Traits.
The next AP that was released, Legacy of Fire, was also under the 3.5 ruleset. The Legacy of Fire Player's Guide has a single paragraph about Basic Traits and refers the reader to the online web supplement, then goes on to list a variety of Region, Race, and Campaign Traits specific to adventuring in Katapesh.
TL;DR: The Basic Traits online web supplement predates the Core Rulebook by months and the APG by over a year.
|
|
Is it possible to get it updated to include the APG Traits? Or at least the 3 missing categories?
I mean, it's strange that Adopted is listed, and yet no Race Traits are.
Or, if it's not possible to update that particular document, could a reprint of the APG pages simply be uploaded as a separate document, instead?
Would be nice if Core characters could pick Religion Traits for their chosen deity.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
you can't take "rich parents" either, what's the big deal that "adopted" doesn't work?
There's a difference between "this option is banned" and "it's legal for you to take an option that literally has no effect".
And that's besides the fact that it's pretty weird to have the trait selection rules center around categories, and then not even have all the categories available.
I doubt the "of the Society" traits would appear, as with any deity specific traits, as I don't think they are under the OGL, the deities and factions being Paizo specific.
Why would it matter if they are OGL or paizo? It is Paizo's GtOP.
|
|
The Traits web Enhancement is OGL, so anything published in it BECOMES OGL. Paizo wants to protect its IP so will not publish non-OGL material in an all OGL supplement.
That doesn't explain the removal of Regional Traits, though.
The Regional Traits in the APG are for generic regions like "Mountains" and "Savannah".
So, is the Pathfinder Society Guide to Organized Play OGL? If not they could just put the traits in there. This will of cause add them to normal PFS with out the need for the book they are from. So, that could be a downside to them.
|
|
Nefreet, the regional traits weren't "removed" from the Traits document. They were never there to begin with.
By the nature of the Core Mode, there are going to be elements of the game that leave holes in the environment.
But, they had to have been at one point, in a previous printing.
They're quite literally described in their own section.
You don't just type up a document, and define something, for no reason.
And, the Adopted Trait is still there.
That suggests the Race Traits were removed.
Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In the Second Darkness Players Guide (the first place traits are mentioned) it does mention race, region, and religion, but when it does it states that these types of traits will be in upcoming player companions (like the elf companion, the varisian companion, and the faiths of good companion.)
Edit:
There are five types of Character Traits to choose from, although at the time of this book’s printing, only two (Basic and Campaign) are available; these traits are described on pages 11–15. The other three categories (race, religion, regional) of traits are listed below—expect to see traits from these categories in future Pathfinder Companions!
Bolded my addition as I didn't want to copy and paste the example sections.
|
|
I found an old copy of the traits pdf on my old laptop. Identical to a fresh download.
Taking a look at the document
"Basic Traits: There are a total of 40 basic traits—ten each, split among the categories of Combat, Faith, Magic, and Social."
It defines the other trait types but doesn't provide any of them.
|
|
Alrighty then.
So, time for an update?
The update was the Advanced Players Guide. Which largely made the web supplement obsolete. Except for those players who did not want to purchase the Advanced Players Guide. Then they still had a source for traits.
The web supplement is allowed in the Core Campaign, so that Core characters can actually have two traits.
But there is no need for an update.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Andrew,
In general, I agree with you. 95% of the suggestions that this or that should be added to the Core ruleset, I'd agree should be left out.
But that's not to say that the current restriction level is perfect. A more robust set of traits strikes me as the same sort of thing as regional languages. It's a part of the setting environment that should be available in Core Mode.
Why? Because when the PFS rules began at the beginning of Season 1, there were already race traits through the Elves of Golarion book. Likewise, religion traits were already intended. The Traits document updated the original traits from the fourth AP into the PFS ruleset, but didn't reprint the ones from race books, perhaps because the race series was still in production.
We don't need a full suite of trait options, but then we don't need traits at all. The better question is: would the Core Mode environment benefit from a more robust set of traits? I would like to see the Traits Document expanded to include two or three race traits for each of the seven core races and one or two religion traits for each of the Big 20 gods.
|
|
I would like to see the Traits Document expanded to include two or three race traits for each of the seven core races and one or two religion traits for each of the Big 20 gods.Yes, please.
The APG has 15 Religion Traits, 2 Race Traits for each race, and 7 generic Regional Traits.
It also has 7 Campaign Traits, but I think we can all agree that those should still be excluded.
Let's take a poll!
"Like" the option below that you agree most with:
|
I like the idea of either a) updating the old Traits Wed Enhancement to represent all categories of traits, b) creating a new "Core Traits" Web Enhancement that is a little more complete, or c) just adding the Core traits to the Pathfinder Society Guide, like WAY back in the beginning of Season 0 when you got a bonus feat from the Guide depending on your faction, and dropping the Web Enhancement all together. "C" seems like the tidiest option.
But having only some trait categories represented and dead-ends like Adopted seems weird. I guess my choice "D" would be to just drop traits from Core altogether.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
Thus far, both of my Core Characters has a trait from the faction section of the Guide to Society Play.
I think that Adopted will just not be a viable choice in Core Mode, simply because of the way Race(Racial?) Traits were put out among various Campanion books. Ultimate Campaign has reprinted some of them, making it so that Race Traits no longer have a second category (Of one of the four basic ones) attached to them.
In the regular campaign, it allowed me to take Adopted (Gnome) and Etymologist (Sp?) as a Tengu.
I believe that in Core, having the Traits as is will be enough, being able to get Race Traits in regular Society can be an incentive to play the regular campaign.
