New player seeks advice; About Improvised Weapons, Equipment Tricks and . . . Coffins . . . also tattooes


Advice


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So hei there, lets skip all the smoothtalk about how I am new to Tabletop, yet unsullied and so on, blabla, and jump directly to the question at hand. (b°-°)b

1. Improvised Weapons:

I read pretty much everything there is to read about this, except I can't find specific tables to confirm DMGes and the like. So, thing is, I am planning to build a Necromancer who fights with the Coffin he carries around. That coffin has a few handles and the like skrewed into it, so to carry it propery and have a way to actually efficiently hit stuff with it. Plan is to make this Coffin into a Coffin of Holding and have 1 HD of Plague Zombie inside, tossing my victims in there every other day. Plan on fighting with this is pretty much to stuff opponents in there against their will . . .

Can anyone tell me about the possible stats a Coffin would have? I think the "Weapon" it gets closest to is pretty much a shield . . . although thats no weapon . . . still, any ideas, please?

2. Equipment Trick:

So this is mostly wishfull thinking, but . . .

"Choose: a piece of equipment, SUCH AS an anvil, boots, a cloak, a heavy blade scabbard, a rope, a shield, or a sunrod."

So is it possible to make like a new equipment trick for coffins? Or is there any way to make people believe a coffin is as much a good a tower shield made of wood as it gets? (so that i may use the shield equipment tricks such as Break ground to shove my Coffin at chargin foes and knock em prone into it, or the Shield gag feat to stuff a dragons jaw and have plague zombies tumble into its stomach)

3. Coffins . . .

I like coffins, why is there no love for coffins in this game?

4. Inscribe Magic Tatoos feat.

So I am pretty keen on turning my Cleric into a Tattooed Mystic and get himself some nice additional /Day Spell possibilities like this (I am aware that Animate Dead Tattoo won't ever be a thing but if by some cheer luck there is pls tell me), not to mention ALL THE POSSIBILITIES (and the familiar to make touch attacks for me and suck out souls [cocaedemon im looking at you]). Yet everybody keeps insisting that Magic Tattoos cost 4 times the normal amount that creating anything else does. Creating a Spell Tattoo is the only thing that says:

"A spell tattoo has a MARKET PRICE four times as much as an equivalent scroll."

And even then it only says market price, not creation price. Doesn't that say that buying a tattoed spell on a magic market costs 4x a scroll and not creating it does? It doesn't make sense to overprice this feat like this, it might save me a item slot, but not the money to actually ever fill the slot so no reason for that in the first place.

Also for all the people I read stating you can't make money with this feat . . . You pretty much can wander through the world and sell free magix to everyone. Especially as a cleric you can over some pretty neat stuff the commoners could be interested in, such as heal spells or protection vs undead.


I once made a Dirge Bard focused on attacking things with a shovel - two traits in particular were stellar for me: Rough And Ready with 1 rank in Profession (Undertaker) and Surprise Weapon. Those two traits had me attacking for much more reliable hits than the same level fighter.


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Yeh I would definietly get Catch-Off Guard and Surprise Weapon, late rthen Improvised Weapon Mastery, but thats it. The coffin is more for fun stuff rather than my main source of dmg, although the zombies inside are gonna be.


dot


1. Improvised weapons have the damage and stats the GM says they do. It's really entirely left up to the GM if there's no rule for it. If you're trying to put people in the coffin that's bull rush/reposition and moving them into a (presumably open and standing up) coffin. There are no set rules for swinging a container at people.

2. The equipment tricks that can be done are listed. If you want a new one, again, GM fiat territory. There is no set coffin trick I'm aware of.

3. Are you kidding me? I know some niches need more love but coffins as a combat style is not one of them.

4. So Inscribe Magical Tattoos does two things. One, it lets you make magical tattoos that take the place of Wondrous Items but cost double (the price for a slotless item). Two, it lets you create special magical tattoos, like the spell tattoo you want. The spell tattoo has a market price of 4 times the equivalent scroll which means the craft cost (which is half of market price) is also 4 times as much. Additionally, they're still spell completion (the method for scrolls) so commoners (or anyone who couldn't use the scroll version) has to use UMD to use it.


I would also look at the grappling rules for people who resist being shoved into coffins with strange moans emanating...


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Also, this is a brilliant character idea and I'm stealing it for an NPC to creep my players out with.

*YOINK!*


feel free to take the idea, I was surprised to not have seen any coffin x skeleton action anywhere yet. Atm. my character can only summon his corpse companion but its much more effective hidden in the coffin on my back where it can swing at stuff when i turn around, rather than face people 1v1 with only 8 Hp on its own.


Also good input on the grapple rules and the moaning coffing, I'll make sure to make it a "Silent Coffin of Holding" :3


You may want to take a look at going Warpriest instead of Cleric if you're going to be more melee-ish

Scarab Sages

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I've got to say, I would not let this work unless you have a STR of at least 20. Coffins are heavy and unwieldy, and without super-human str they can't be used effectively as weapons.

If you had the STR, then I'd let you use it as an improvised quarterstaff that you can't double weapon.


I am ant-hauling the thing, a coffin only weights 40 lbs (if not ornament) in this game and i am not using our modern amazingly crafted and heavy pieces (i know about this stuff, i work on a graveyard irl.) but the old, easy to hammer together version. Simply 8 boards nailed together. Somewhat a bit better(or worse) crafted than this: http://www.scarefx.com/images/coffin_project/coffin_construction_15.jpg

its not ment to be an amazingly effective weapon, i don't swing it around like a sword or anything. This is ment as a last resort for my necromancer, if he has nothing but his own two hands to fend enemies off (and of course the zombie army inside this thing, yet uncontrollable.) I mainly keep this thing on my back jumping at people with my back turned at them, hands reachin out trying to grab them, or shove them inside. I would use any other trick available to me to make people greet the gruesome insides of it, my character is that kind of guy, no honorable fighter that would meet you without a dagger hidden behind his back in a 1v1 fistfight. As a weapon itself, its useless. Thats why I refered to it as a tower shield as if anything likely. It is ofc. going to be severely enhanced, both magical and physical (better wood, some metal and the likes.) Also its pretty hilarious a thin, just imagine you get charged by a guy holding a coffin infront of himelf, then he suddenly whirles around a good couple feet infront of you and swings this thing blindly through the air, just so the lid falls off and either a zombie gets thrown out or a bunch of these buggers fall over each other trying to get to you :D


and i looked at warpriest, but he misses out on to many funny spells if you ask me, all the good stuff comes just after spell rank 6, and to be honest as Undead Lord with the Undead Channel Variant I can easily dip into Tattooed Mystic/ Exalted or Agent of the Grave* and still get a nice 5d6 + 100% + maxed Healing for my undead and myself = 60 + Cha x 2, which is preeeeetty neat.

(* I dont understand this one all to much actually, anyone care to explain if this is a cannon thing or not, it doesnt really looke like it ... OP as it is. Also what does it mean by: "upon transforming into an undead you lose all class levels" does it make me level 1 again after transforming into a lich? keeping all my skills and spells? Cus thats broken AS FUUUCK)


To answer some of your questions (because I to, am stealing this character concept :P).

As a GM, I'd put the coffin as an unwieldy, fragile improvised weapon with a 2d6x2[20] profile (unwieldy being a -2 to hit due to size/weight distribution, fragile due your description of "8 planks nailed together". Keep in mind once enchanted, it looses the fragile quality). I think a better option would be making an animated object (via spell or craft), that way it toddles about and engulfs people itself, but YMMV. Here's an example based on a similar object out of Mummy's Mask that could function for you.

I'm totally a Coffin:

NOMNOMNOM COFFIN
Animated object (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 14)
N Medium construct
lnit +O; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception -5
DEFENSE
AC 14, touch 10, flat-footed 14 (+4 natural)
hp 36 (3d10+20)
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will -4
Defensive Abilities hardness 5; Immune construct traits
Weaknesses vulnerable to cold
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee bite +5 (1d6+2 plus grab), slam +5 (1d6+2)
Special Attacks swallow whole (suffocation damage, AC 12,
hardness 5, 3 hp)
STATISTICS
Str 14, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1
Base Atk +3; CMB +5 (+9 grapple); CMD 15 (can't be tripped)
SQ Construction Points (additional natural attack [bite], grab,
swallow whole), flaws (brittle, slower)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Brittle (Ex, +1 CP) The object gains vulnerability to cold.
Slower (Ex, +1 CP) The object's speed is reduced to 20 feet.
Swallow Whole (Ex, 2 CP) The object gains the swallow
whole special attack, and can swallow Medium or smaller
creatures (the object must have a bite attack before it can
take this ability). A creature does not take damage within
the coffin, but there is only enough air inside to last
for 3 rounds. At the end of the third round, the trapped
creature must hold its breath or risk suffocation. A creature
that attempts to cut its way out of the coffin with
a weapon must be able to penetrate the coffin's
hardness (hardness 5). The coffin can swallow only
one creature at any one time

As for your specific concept, I'd recommend looking to variant undead and animating a zombie lord or skeleton champion that was previously a grappler. You, as the necromancer, should have your undead do the work for you :D

There is no set of raw rules for becoming a lich beyond three general guidelines. A potion/elixir to preserve your body, a phylactery to preserve your soul and a complicated and ornate ritual to bind the body/soul to the right bits. It an objective that is campaign worthy. upon transformation you get the lich template (i've forgotten if its had a conversion to pathfinder or not). Part of the process preserves your classes and abilities.

If you look into the later animated dead spells (create undead and the like), you'll find the variant undead that aren't always mindless (some of those loose class levels, some don't). If you were transformed into a basic zombie/skeleton (via lesser animate dead) you would loose all your class levels. I'd recommend keeping an eye out for special bodies and corpses (casters, decent fighters, grappling monk) to stash away in a bag of holding (they wont decay, but as a cleric restore corpse is just a period of rest away anyways) for when you get access to better and badder raise spells (or need replacements).

To sum up:
Great concept, its wonderfully flavorful :D
Look into:


Depending on how diabolical you're feeling, you could even sponsor fabulous martial grappling competitions to make sure you have a good host to cull.

Oh yes, never forget that your "friends" and "party members" turn into corpses just like everyone else :D

You might also take a peek at the JuJu Mystery Oracle, it gets spells a level late, but for sheer hordes of undead, it is unparalleled (my personal favorite).

Hope this all helps :D


So, and this is very important, by the rules this is all pretty much GM fiat (except for the tattoo thing). This means there is no solid rules grounding to work from.

Now if all you want is advice on how to present this to a GM, sure I can do that but you need to make that clear up front.

First off, don't say you're putting handles on your coffin to use it as a weapon. When you say that I think pallbearer's handles and swinging your coffin like a kid playing airplane. That's... clumsy, at best. And regardless of what you do the coffin will be an improvised weapon.

Second, if you're swinging the coffin at people with the intention of pushing them in it it should be combat maneuver based. Probably gained from taking Equipment Trick (Coffin). I would personally base it on grapple (and use the grappled condition to represent it). That way you can add a second combat maneuver to shut the door and trap them inside (and treat it like pin for a nonmagical coffin).

Third, if you make your coffin the weak boards and nails version it's going to get trashed. Just utterly destroyed by the first barbarian/fighter/guy with an adamantine weapon. It might work at low levels, at high levels things do enough damage each hit to utterly obliterate it.

Fourth, making it a "Coffin of Holding" just means the guy inside only has to poke the wall with a sword and your magic item is broken and the contents lost. They have a fixed volume, the person you shove inside can totally reach the walls. And, again, if it's based on the weak board and nails version it's going to get destroyed from the outside as well.

Long story short, don't try to use it in combat. If you want to feed your coffin a tied up and helpless humanoid every so often that's fine, in combat you're just going to lose your coffin.

If you want stats for a coffin I'd say two-handed 1d6 x2 fragile for the cheap version (1 step above heavy shield) or two-handed 2d6 x2 for the fancy ones (1 step above greatclub).


take note, I am level 1 and still fiddling with this magic creation template :D I am thankfull for the advice and the note of breakability, but I think once I get to a point where this coffin could be made of a Dragons-skull, it should somewhat do the trick.

Also I utterly dislike the image of the weak necromancer only capable of raising bones to do his work. For me a true necromancer, one that puts fear into his foes, is the one clad in horrific steel (or bones) swinging that gruesome weapon you wish anywhere but inside of you and forces your fallen friends, fallen by his hand, to raise and pin you down so he may not accidently grant you the last mercy by their hands, but rather deliver the slow, painful kind on his own.

(b°0°)b

@Treefolk, THANKS FOR THAT TEMPLATE MATE °0°, sentient coffin of holding, damn i just got a nerdboner.

Also I dont play juju oracle, not for the brokeness of spirit vessel, but for the brokenness of juju-zombies. First of all wtfuuuu is this JUJU-zombie supposed to be? sounds like a five year old describing wanking . . . second, a zombie is no friking intelligent thing, using such a stupid concept of wushu and juju undeath would make a mockery of the art of Necromancy and I die by the hands of a friking bard squeezing my head between his butcheeks (play DROPbaaaall) rather than associate myself with Juju Zombies (°0°)/OOOOOOOH POINT MADE


Nice. I just happened to create a Two-handed Fighter PC last year who is bent on beating up bandits with his self-made coffin. Haven't tried him yet though... But he'd probably be pretty awful.

I don't know that it will help much, but if you are considering using it as a weapon, my GM OK'd it to be compared to a simple greatclub just for simplicity, even though it seems "official" coffins are listed as being much, much heavier according to the equipment/gear section of the core rules.


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Juju zombies are just another sort of undead that retain class levels/features which can be a useful thing to be aware of. Personally I prefer to scoop up sorcerer bodies (preferably small ones at that) and raise them as skeletal champions later on.

And to be clear, I was not advocating "weak pansy necromancer devoid of power attack and HYOOAAAHH" but rather that you could be leveraging the fact that you can create ideal tools to support your concept. I mean an animated coffin that eats people and the monk zombie that lives inside it? All that's missing is a buddy cop show name and a camera crew :3


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My first thought was "What anime is this from again?" :)


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Tacticslion wrote:
My first thought was "What anime is this from again?" :)

It reminds me of this guy .


Barbarian laughs at your puny attempt to protect your gear. Also, Adamantine laughs at anything but itself (including dragon bone). And that's not including the monsters that simply deal enough damage that the hardness of your chosen material isn't going to matter. If you are playing a spellcaster and make the coffin a threat someone is going to smash it. You shouldn't use it both as a weapon and as storage for your undead army, that's just begging for it to be wrecked.


Should be easy enough to add an extra magic effect that , instead of emptying into the Astral Plane, all it's contents are dumped where it is in the material plane if it's broken.


HELL NO! GOD THAT WOULD BE AWFULL. Inside that coffin is not 1 HD worth of minion, just a bunch of plague zombie which are to stupid to realize that the dark room they seem to stuck in has a exit and even if they were to figure that out, it would be sealed. Welp. Until I open it and something living, and rather fresh looking wiggling meat pounders into them . . . end of the line (and an additional undead for my storage) and should they ever bother me, there are enough things like turn undead and stuff to keep em at bay.

Also for all you puny barbarians. I LAUGH AT YOUR EFFORT, JUST YOU COME AND TRY ME (°0°)

PS: Still hate juju zombies, retarded concept.

PSPS: I know all the animes (the link was DeGrayMan if i remember correctly [its awful]) and coffin fighting necromancers are not a thing there, hard enough to find proper necromancers in any source of media nowadays, at least some who are more than a sidecharacter . . .


Eater_of_Cakes wrote:
PS: Still hate juju zombies, retarded concept.

Boo! Hiss! Infidel!

Eater_of_Cakes wrote:
PSPS: I know all the animes (the link was DeGrayMan if i remember correctly [its awful]) and coffin fighting necromancers are not a thing there, hard enough to find proper necromancers in any source of media nowadays, at least some who are more than a sidecharacter . . .

Well, if so many people have the same reaction to TOTALLY AWESOME ideas as the above, it's no wonder there aren't that many! ;P


Imbicatus wrote:

I've got to say, I would not let this work unless you have a STR of at least 20. Coffins are heavy and unwieldy, and without super-human str they can't be used effectively as weapons.

If you had the STR, then I'd let you use it as an improvised quarterstaff that you can't double weapon.

Honestly, I don't think I'd ever let him use the coffin as a weapon.

It's like trying to wield a tower shield as a weapon. But larger.

You would need a lot of strength to pick it up alone, and even more to actually hold it in such a way that you could smack someone with it.

I mean hell, a barbarian needs to pickup the rage power body bludgeon to be able to swing around a person and hit people with it. But that requires the rage power, and a barbarians strength. A coffin would weigh even more.


^ I answered that type of answer enough already for people knowing that that is not what I am doing with it.

Scarab Sages

Lost Lich wrote:
^ I answered that type of answer enough already for people knowing that that is not what I am doing with it.

You put you justifications for it, and if that is enough for your GM, whatever. But a lot of us wouldn't let let it fly in our games without massive strength or some kind of magic effect like animating the coffin or having a permanent levitation effect on it.

Because physics. Even for a crappy pine box weighing only 40 lbs, that 40 lbs is incredibly awkward. It has no clear center of mass, and it has no internal support to support being used as a weapon.


My justification:

I am not holding this thing in 2 hands, away from my body, like a greatsword, pointing its "tip" at my opponent. But carrying it on my back like a backpack and tend to drop it on feet or simply drop it on opponents so they vanish inside. This may sound awkward and all, but in my mind I can picture it pretty well, just on paper my imagination fails to allow me to describe you the specific movements needed for this. All I am saying is, I am NOT fighting with this thing in a way that would make me swing the damn thing around. This is no friking weapon, its a coffin and gonna be treated as such, except i want you in there, living or not, and you damn better watch out, otherwise you might just find yourself just there. . . and you're not gonna be alone.


I would allow someone to use a coffin as a weapon or with an equipment trick, provided they were strong enough to wield it. I enjoy seeing players come up with creative characters.

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