RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am hoping that this thread can catalogue the special cases and odd one-off rules for Core Mode. I am hoping that the posts here will contain, for the most part, questions from the player base, and replies from the Venture Officers and campaign leadership.
In particular, I'm asking that any questions or replies that start creating chains of entries on their own, be pulled out into their own threads.
It's the internet, I know, and these are Paizo's boards, I know, and I'm a naive goob, I know. But, if I can ask you, individually a favor, would you let someone else break that request first?
--
Some modules are tricky.
Can we assign a playing of "We Be Goblins" to a Core character?
What pre-gens can we use for "Risen from the Sands"?
---
Wizards can copy spells from one another's spellbooks into their own. If my Core Mode PC has a non-core spell (from a Chronicle), can another PC copy that spell and use it?
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is going to come up (has come up as a question in those other threads) and I really do need to know what the response is going to be:
Someone screws up. Despite every precaution the "Core Only" rule was violated at a table.
The table was announced as a Core table. The GM checked with players prior to playing to be sure they were using Core-only PCs, and double checked to be sure they understood what that meant. Nothing untoward occurred during game play. Then, during Day Job rolls, the monk's player announces that he uses his his Patient Calm trait to get a 12 on his take 10 for Profession (Yoga Teacher).
Step by step, please, what happens next to everyone involved?
|
excellent question Drogon:
Mistakes obviously can happen. Technically this table is a non-core table, but you don't want to penalize five people for one person making a mistake (or gods forbid maliciously forgot).
I personally wouldn't see a problem, especially as we all get used to this new mode of play, of reporting the game without the non-Core character.
So:
1) that non-core character never gets reported, but gets to keep his chronicle.
2) that non-core character doesn't get the chronicle and never gets to replay in non-core.
3) if its a new character and hasn't played non-core yet, you let the player adjust the character to core this one time.
But Technically, RAW, you report it as non-core and the 5 core characters become non-core.
|
What do we do with spellbooks we find in game? (E.g. can we copy non-core spells from them?)
If we find a scroll of a non-core spell, can we use that to scribe a non-core spell into our book? If no, what if the scroll is on the chronicle sheet?
As far as the question regarding what happens if someone is using a non-core ability in a core game, when one determines that I would imagine you would handle it the same way that you do when you realize someone is using something not allowed in a regular game by mistake. (i.e. something not on additional resources)
|
Global Organized Play Coordinator
|
| 11 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is going to come up (has come up as a question in those other threads) and I really do need to know what the response is going to be:
Someone screws up. Despite every precaution the "Core Only" rule was violated at a table.
The table was announced as a Core table. The GM checked with players prior to playing to be sure they were using Core-only PCs, and double checked to be sure they understood what that meant. Nothing untoward occurred during game play. Then, during Day Job rolls, the monk's player announces that he uses his his Patient Calm trait to get a 12 on his take 10 for Profession (Yoga Teacher).
Step by step, please, what happens next to everyone involved?
It's chalked up as an honest mistake, make sure the player understands what needs to be fixed, report it as a Core table, and invite people to come back next week.
The same thing has happened with people using banned feats, traits, etc... We don't invalidate an entire table because one person made a mistake.
|
Global Organized Play Coordinator
|
What do we do with spellbooks we find in game? (E.g. can we copy non-core spells from them?)
If we find a scroll of a non-core spell, can we use that to scribe a non-core spell into our book? If no, what if the scroll is on the chronicle sheet?
As far as the question regarding what happens if someone is using a non-core ability in a core game, when one determines that I would imagine you would handle it the same way that you do when you realize someone is using something not allowed in a regular game by mistake. (i.e. something not on additional resources)
Look at my second reply in this thread for an answer to spell books.
Yes, if you find a scroll, it can be used to scribe into a book. Just have the GM make a note on the Chronicle.
For your third point, see my answer directly above this one.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
I would like to add that the Horrible Game Day module last year (Risen Sands? ) had level 3 pregens that were horribly outclassed by the (actual) tier of the mod. Technically, at least on Game Day, you had to either play an in tier character or one of the pregens provided.
You already answered above that the regular pregens can be use now, though core only for a core game. Is that true for a PFS game as well.
|
|
So, you cannot put Ghost Touch on a bow, for it is neither a melee weapon nor ammunition. I just learned that today when comparing the Core Rulebook to Ultimate Equipment. However, that additional language is added in UE, but does not exist as a restriction in the Core Rulebook, which brings up an interesting question. In Core Campaign, can you make a Ghost Touch bow?
What about other items that were updated/modified between the Core Rulebook and later publications? i.e., if thing exists in Core Rulebook but has been later modified in some manner, do we use the CRB version of thing, or the modified version of thing?
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
This is going to come up (has come up as a question in those other threads) and I really do need to know what the response is going to be:
Someone screws up. Despite every precaution the "Core Only" rule was violated at a table.
The table was announced as a Core table. The GM checked with players prior to playing to be sure they were using Core-only PCs, and double checked to be sure they understood what that meant. Nothing untoward occurred during game play. Then, during Day Job rolls, the monk's player announces that he uses his his Patient Calm trait to get a 12 on his take 10 for Profession (Yoga Teacher).
Step by step, please, what happens next to everyone involved?
It's chalked up as an honest mistake, make sure the player understands what needs to be fixed, report it as a Core table, and invite people to come back next week.
The same thing has happened with people using banned feats, traits, etc... We don't invalidate an entire table because one person made a mistake.
Thank you. That's how I would have handled it. But (as has been pointed out already) there are those who will want it written out, else it is speculation and assumptions which can be overruled.
You're awesome. Keep it up. (-:
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
|
Is there a mechanic in place for Sorcerers to do this normally?
No, because normally a sorcerer (or cleric, or druid) doesn't have an artificial limit on what spells they can learn.
For what its worth, Living Greyhawk required such characters to own a copy of the scroll with the unusual spell on it (at least that is how I remember it).
|
|
Scrolls, potions, and fully charged wands of first level spells are always available and as a result are often not written on chronicle sheets. If a scenario offers one of these with a non-core spell is it ok to add this to the relevant chronicle sheet as an available item? I will of course as the GM to initial this. Can I then buy that item for the character as often as I want? Would this also hold true for non magical items thst are not available in Core?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Scrolls, potions, and fully charged wands of first level spells are always available and as a result are often not written on chronicle sheets. If a scenario offers one of these with a non-core spell is it ok to add this to the relevant chronicle sheet as an available item? I will of course as the GM to initial this. Can I then buy that item for the character as often as I want? Would this also hold true for non magical items thst are not available in Core?
You can't add additional items to a chronicle sheet for availability. If it's not printed, it's not available.
|
|
This is going to come up (has come up as a question in those other threads) and I really do need to know what the response is going to be:
Someone screws up. Despite every precaution the "Core Only" rule was violated at a table.
The table was announced as a Core table. The GM checked with players prior to playing to be sure they were using Core-only PCs, and double checked to be sure they understood what that meant. Nothing untoward occurred during game play. Then, during Day Job rolls, the monk's player announces that he uses his his Patient Calm trait to get a 12 on his take 10 for Profession (Yoga Teacher).
Step by step, please, what happens next to everyone involved?
1st: I would ask the player to show how they have access to the trait. There are some con boons out that allow access to traits that are from a specific product - Dragon Empire Primer comes to mind. If they have the con boon, no problem. If not, follow the advice in the posts above.
|
|
Scrolls, potions, and fully charged wands of first level spells are always available and as a result are often not written on chronicle sheets. If a scenario offers one of these with a non-core spell is it ok to add this to the relevant chronicle sheet as an available item? I will of course as the GM to initial this. Can I then buy that item for the character as often as I want? Would this also hold true for non magical items thst are not available in Core?
The GM can't add it to the Chronicle. But the player can make use of the scroll at the end of the scenario. If there is more than one player who wants to use it, have one wizard write it in their spellbook, and have the rest copy it from the spellbook.
|
|
Follow-up question:
If a wizard has a non-core spell in her spellbook that she learned from another wizard (thus it does not appear as a scroll on one of her Chronicle sheets), can she buy scrolls of that spell?
No...I wouldn't think so. It's not available through the campaign rules, and you don't have it opened up as available through a chronicle, which so far is the only way to expand those options.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
To point it out, the GM would denote the spells learned on the Chronicle, making it into an added resource for the character (be it gotten from a Scroll, other player's Spellbook, or something else in game)
Scrolls might also be listed in the chronicle to be available for purchase, which the character then can do no matter the source of the spell. (Or cost, for that matter)
Sorcerers, I would think, could purchase a scroll on the chronicle when they level up for an "unusual" spell. Or save one that was found within a scenario, with a GM's notation. I would put "for learning spell when leveling" if it comes down to it.
Spontaneous casters (two in Core, right? Sorcerer and Bard) should not be hampered because they have limited times they learn spells.
Keep in mind, the few spells Sorcerer's do get, they might not even want to get some of the spells that are proffered in the scenarios.
Apologies if this has been asked / answered, but I have a couple of questions.
I assume (and we all know what that means), that the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, will be re-written some day for Core, as it presents a lot of options that are now no longer valid and too numerous to ask about.
Two traits in particular. Adopted. Does this open Race Traits, which are not part of the Web Enhancement. Rich Parents. Is this allowed?
-- david
|
|
Sorcerers, I would think, could purchase a scroll on the chronicle when they level up for an "unusual" spell. Or save one that was found within a scenario, with a GM's notation. I would put "for learning spell when leveling" if it comes down to it.
They'd only have access to it if a: it is listed on the chronicle and b: they buy it.
Items encountered during the scenario are only available after the session ends if they are on the chronicle. That nifty potion you looted during the first fight, it gets turned into the Society after the assignment if you haven't used it during the session.
|
|
Apologies if this has been asked / answered, but I have a couple of questions.
I assume (and we all know what that means), that the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, will be re-written some day for Core, as it presents a lot of options that are now no longer valid and too numerous to ask about.
Two traits in particular. Adopted. Does this open Race Traits, which are not part of the Web Enhancement. Rich Parents. Is this allowed?
-- david
A full re-write of the Guide will happen someday to include Core. I'm assuming it'll be around July (GenCon). I could be wrong and it might come earlier, but I wouldn't count on it.
If it was banned from PFS it wouldn't be allowed in Core (Rich Parents), and if it's not on the Web Traits list or a chronicle, then the trait is not available to the best of my understanding.
|
|
Apologies if this has been asked / answered, but I have a couple of questions.
I assume (and we all know what that means), that the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, will be re-written some day for Core, as it presents a lot of options that are now no longer valid and too numerous to ask about.
Two traits in particular. Adopted. Does this open Race Traits, which are not part of the Web Enhancement. Rich Parents. Is this allowed?
Mike Brock stated in the announcement thread that an update to the Guide will be forthcoming, but will probably take a couple weeks to get written, edited and prepped for release.
Adopted will only allow core-legal traits unless you have a boon granting access. However, race boons are not Core-legal.
Rich Parents (or anything ruled illegal in Classic PFS) is also illegal in Core.
Rich Parents (or anything ruled illegal in Classic PFS) is also illegal in Core.
This is not meant to be argumentative, but as I am thinking of DM'ing again, and I do not deal well with jackasses, in fact I don't deal with them at all, may I suggest that a specific statement from the head honcho be made to that affect. The first bullet point in the announcement is that the "additional resources" apply to the Classic campaign, leaving it open for someone to argue that since that is where "rich parents" is mentioned, that it is now ok for the Core campaign.
First time someone made that argument, I'd leave the table and go home. Like I said, I don't deal well with jackasses.
-- david
|
Is there a mechanic in place for Sorcerers to do this normally?The Sorcerer class description of how they gain new spells is a marvel of vague and wooly writing which PF has inherited from 3.5.
A sorcerer's selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new sorcerer level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study.The bolded part might suggest that they can gave new spells at level up from scrolls they have encountered and studied.
Or it might not.
Hence my question.
Agreed that this is a corner case - since normally any PFS-legal spell that's on the Sorc/Wiz list is fair game for a sorcerer PC to learn - would having access to a scroll of a non-core spell from a chronicle sheet / captured spellbook qualify that sorcerer PC to choose to learn it at their next level (or through retraining)?
|
|
Lets say I play a certain scenario in core that gives me access to an archetype. This archetype says instead of x I get a bonus teamwork feat every other level. Can I pick any normal pfs legal teamwork feat? I'm trying not to spoiler things but there is a scenario that gives this, it's not just a hypothetical question.
|
|
Sorcerers, I would think, could purchase a scroll on the chronicle when they level up for an "unusual" spell. Or save one that was found within a scenario, with a GM's notation. I would put "for learning spell when leveling" if it comes down to it.They'd only have access to it if a: it is listed on the chronicle and b: they buy it.
Items encountered during the scenario are only available after the session ends if they are on the chronicle. That nifty potion you looted during the first fight, it gets turned into the Society after the assignment if you haven't used it during the session.
Unfortunately, while you are correct, you are also incorrect.
The corner case here is that no extent chronicle lists any PFS Standard Mode 1st level spell on found scrolls or in potions, since both are, in Standard Mode, Always Available, and there is never enough room to list (and many, many complaints against listing) all the Always Available stuff on the various chronicles.
So, to clarify the question:
In an older scenario/module/AP segment, if a PFS Core Mode PC finds a scroll or potion of a non-Core, but Standard Mode Always Available, spell, is there some way to notate that spell, either as a the scroll or potion, as available on the older chronicle for the Core Mode PC?
Spurious example:
In PFS Scenario 4-44: Asmodeus Wants Your Soul, one of the items you can find in the module was a scroll of Infernal Healing. As a spell listed as available on the Additional Resources, it wouldn't be listed on the chronicle for this older Standard Mode scenario.
What would happen for a play through in Core Mode?
Could a Wizard scribe it into his spellbook, even though it isn't listed on the chronicle?
Could a Sorcerer learn that spell as a spell known when he levels up? How about if the scenario XP is what causes him to level up?
Since it is a Cleric spell, but they don't use spellbooks, could a non-Good-aligned Cleric prepare it later? How about if they are a Cleric of Asmodeus?
Basically, there needs to be a little bit of clarification about the status of non-Core first level spells from older scenarios.
|
Lets say I play a certain scenario in core that gives me access to an archetype. This archetype says instead of x I get a bonus teamwork feat every other level. Can I pick any normal pfs legal teamwork feat? I'm trying not to spoiler things but there is a scenario that gives this, it's not just a hypothetical question.Core scenarios are very unlikely to give you access to something outside of core. In the event that does happen, it's extremely likely that it will tell you EXACTLY what you can get and how it can be applied. It's very unlikely that we'll see any open door boons from a Chronicle.
I believe gnoam's point was that such a scenario already exists (though I don't know what it is).
Also, are you under the impression that there will be separate scenarios only for core mode? It's the same pool of scenarios as normal mode and the same chronicle sheets. There are already many chronicles that grant access to non-core material.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I believe that all PCs, regardless of class should have the same or nearly the same access to spells, even if they gain spells in different ways. Here is some suggested wording for the Guide to Organized play, specificically for the chronicle sheet items section of the Core campaign rules:
"If a player comes across a scroll of a spell found outside of the core rules that is on their spell list during an adventure, the player may purchase the scroll for the standard cost after the adventure for the purposes of gaining access to the spell. The scroll is considered expended, and a Wizard can perform the normal process of adding the spell to their spellbook, and can take 10 on the spellcraft check to do so. Clerics, Druids and Rangers can choose to prepare the spell as normal from that point on. Bards and Sorcerers can choose to add the spell as a spell known any time they gain a spell known of the appropriate level, and can retrain spells of that level into the spell on the scroll, spending the normal prestige and gold costs to do so. The GM should notate on the chronicle that the player has gained access to the spell."
Also, I think that wizards trading non-core spells back and forth is detrimental to the spirit of the Core Campaign. I think that you should only get access to a spell if you encounter it yourself. Suggested wording for the guide:
"Wizards may not copy spells that are found outside of the core rulebook from other PC wizards' spellbooks. They may still copy non-core spells from spellbooks found as treasure."
I DO, however, feel that the "I found a spellbook!" moment should be maintained. This also gives wizards a significant advantage, in that they are the only class that can learn spells from found spellbooks. I believe that this maintains the flavor of the class, without being too powerful.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
There is also the fact that there will be other Wizards eventually that did get non-Core spells and the rule about copying from spellbooks would not necessarily exclude those spells simply because it isn't on the specific chronicle at the time.
I think the GM denotion of the spell being gained (after watching the spellcraft roll and expenses being paid) would be enough at that point. The wizard who has the spell to be copied would need to show the chronicle in which he gained the spell, ofcourse.
Just now reading the post above me. I would hope that a particular spell can be copied from any spellbook, not just those that may be found (a rare circumstance). Wizards still have a major disadvantage with Vancian forgetfulness, hampering them with more restrictions with the game campaign would not be nice.
|
|
Lets say I play a certain scenario in core that gives me access to an archetype. This archetype says instead of x I get a bonus teamwork feat every other level. Can I pick any normal pfs legal teamwork feat? I'm trying not to spoiler things but there is a scenario that gives this, it's not just a hypothetical question.Core scenarios are very unlikely to give you access to something outside of core. In the event that does happen, it's extremely likely that it will tell you EXACTLY what you can get and how it can be applied. It's very unlikely that we'll see any open door boons from a Chronicle.I believe gnoam's point was that such a scenario already exists (though I don't know what it is).
Also, are you under the impression that there will be separate scenarios only for core mode? It's the same pool of scenarios as normal mode and the same chronicle sheets. There are already many chronicles that grant access to non-core material.
Right, there is a scenario that opens access to an otherwise disallowed archetype for all your characters. Thereby allowing players to make a character of this archetype for core. The archetype gives a bonus teamwork feat every other level. Naturally it does not tell you which books you can select teamwork feats out of and there are no teamwork feats in core... so how should this work?
|
|
Continuing the spell access to normally open spells train of thought, the same applies for weapons and armor. If you fight a guy with a normal earthbreaker, can you then purchase one yourself? Can you purchase a masterwork one? Can you upgrade it? If there's a +1 flaming chakram on a chronicle sheet can you buy that and then upgrade it? Can you buy a normal one instead, or only one exactly like you found?
|
Global Organized Play Coordinator
|
Right, there is a scenario that opens access to an otherwise disallowed archetype for all your characters. Thereby allowing players to make a character of this archetype for core. The archetype gives a bonus teamwork feat every other level. Naturally it does not tell you which books you can select teamwork feats out of and there are no teamwork feats in core... so how should this work?Lets say I play a certain scenario in core that gives me access to an archetype. This archetype says instead of x I get a bonus teamwork feat every other level. Can I pick any normal pfs legal teamwork feat? I'm trying not to spoiler things but there is a scenario that gives this, it's not just a hypothetical question.Core scenarios are very unlikely to give you access to something outside of core. In the event that does happen, it's extremely likely that it will tell you EXACTLY what you can get and how it can be applied. It's very unlikely that we'll see any open door boons from a Chronicle.I believe gnoam's point was that such a scenario already exists (though I don't know what it is).
Also, are you under the impression that there will be separate scenarios only for core mode? It's the same pool of scenarios as normal mode and the same chronicle sheets. There are already many chronicles that grant access to non-core material.
The bonus teamwork feat isn't available.
|
Global Organized Play Coordinator
|
Continuing the spell access to normally open spells train of thought, the same applies for weapons and armor. If you fight a guy with a normal earthbreaker, can you then purchase one yourself? Can you purchase a masterwork one? Can you upgrade it? If there's a +1 flaming chakram on a chronicle sheet can you buy that and then upgrade it? Can you buy a normal one instead, or only one exactly like you found?
If the weapon appears on the Chronicle sheet, then you can purchase it. Otherwise no.