In Indian fantasy and fable the hero usually doesn’t slay a demon with a sword; instead, he threatens to destroy part of the world with the awesome power of his bow. Just touching arrow to bowstring makes enemies run in fear, and apocalyptic damage awaits those who make him fire.
You don’t get a lot of archery like that in Pathfinder. Anyone care to try? 25 point, 20 levels, any race, any item, any spell, to set up a hero to face down a CR 20 Void Yai Oni and twenty CR 8 Denizens of Leng (10 within a 30 ft radius of the Oni, the rest within a 60 ft radius) come to threaten the kingdom. Here’s my take on how much damage I can get out of one bow shot:
Angel-Spawn Aasimar Paladin (Divine Hunter) 3 / Draconic Sorcerer 7 / Arcane Archer 10
Stats with items & buffs:
Str- 32 (14 base, +2 racial, +6 enhancement, +4 Eldritch Heritage, +6 size)
Dex- 16 (14 base, +6 enhancement, -4 size)
Con- 20 (14 base, +6 enhancement)
Int- 16 (10 base, +6 enhancement)
Wis- 16 (10 base, +6 enhancement)
Cha- 29 (16 base, +2 racial, +6 enhancement, +5 leveling)
Relevant Feats- Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus- Necromancy, Greater Spell Focus- Necromancy, Spell Focus- Evocation, Greater Spell Focus- Evocation, Eldritch Heritage (Orc), Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orc)
Relevant Traits: Magical Lineage (delayed blast fireball)
Buffs up: Gravity Bow (increase damage size), Monstrous Physique III (huge size, +6 str & flight), Greater Named Bullet (touch within 30 & +34 damage), Bloody Arrows (1 pt bleed), Flame Arrows (+1d6 flame), True Strike (+20 att), Moment of Greatness (doubles morale bonus), Keen Edge (doubles crit range), Haste (+1 attack, +30 move), True Seeing (just in case!)
Bow: Huge +5 Bane Evil Outsider 2nd Chance Compound (+11 Str) Longbow
Arrow: Spell Storing (Finger of Death, DC 28 fort) Shocking Burst (+1d6/+1d10 lightning) Holy (+2d6 Good) Arrow of Death (Save or Die, DC 29 fort), with buffs as above, and imbued with Empowered Delay Blast Fireball (14d6 x 1.5 fire, DC 28 reflex)
Already buffed for action, our hero flies up the circle of enemies with his 120 fly movement to within 30 of the Oni, declares his smite, and fires his bow. The attack is +59 touch attack, from BAB +15, Dex +3, Size -4, +5 bow enhancement, +18 smite (doubled from +9 by Moment of Greatness), +20 True Strike, +1 Haste, +1 Point Blank Shot. If that shot misses (I roll nat 1 a lot!) the second chance feature of the bow allows an instant re-roll.
When that arrow hits the target, the first reaction is the Arrow of Death effect from Arcane Archer 10, forcing a DC 29 fort save or die. If he saves, then the target makes a DC 28 fort save or take 140 points of damage from Finger of Death, save for 3d6+14. Then the damage from the arrow goes in, and since greater named bullet automatically threatens a crit and with a +59 touch attack it’s safe to assume we’ll make that crit happen. That would change the arrow damage to 12d6 + 42 and +18 smite (base +3 x 3 for the crit x 2 for hitting an evil outsider) from the arrow itself, plus 2d6 holy, 1d10 shock, 1d6 flame, +34 from greater named bullet, and one point bleed. Average 292 points of damage if he doesn’t makes the fort save, 176 if he makes the save. And then…
Then everything in a 30’ radius takes damage from the empowered delayed blast fireball, with a DC 28 reflex save for half. At 14d6 x 1.5, that’s an average 74 points of damage, save for 37.
So depending on saves and using average damage, our main target either dies immediately or takes between 213 and 366 points of damage, while everything in a 30’ radius takes another 74, save for half.
It’s not bad, but I know you guys can do better.
(and my math is probably a wreck, so no offense if you find mistakes)
You can't smite and use true strike in the same round. They're both swift actions.
@Dafydd - I believe you missed the point by a mile. The point was to see how much damage you could pile onto an arrow. Not just pure DPR. Sure you can do a lot of damage with bombs and fast bombs, and twf with them. But that's not archery.
Except using explosive missile is a standard action in and of itself, which will preclude a full attack, as far as I can see.
So you can fire one arrow with 10d6 bonus bomb damage and whatever else. Not nearly the damage output of the 7 bombs dafydd indicated.
I'm assuming you're talking about the various Astras, which came in a variety of shapes and sizes, but mostly refer to "missiles", which generally translates to "Arrows."
There are some weapons specifically designated "bows," such as the Gandiva, that impart their qualities upon their missiles. The Gandiva is specifically something like a fire-based weapon and would have abilities, like "Fireball (CL15) x/day, use" attached to it.
Most others, like the Brahma'astra and Brahmashira, have VERY specific abilities quoted to them. The worst of the Astras are those two I mentioned, which are akin to nuclear weapons.
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The thing of it is, most Astras aren't physical objects, per say. As they're described, they're more like spells that transmute whatever you're using as a focus into the Astra - a blade of grass, for instance, would transform into an Astra.
Imagine a character, like Rama, drawing an arrow, and uttering a mantra. The arrow then transforms into a more phenomenal arrow, and then launches. That's basically what an Astra really is.
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So you're basically left with 2 ways to make "Astras" - either:
Your character has lots of magical arrows which aren't destroyed upon use and have specific uses each. A ranged Warpriest is probably most suited to this task.
OR
You basically make a Myrmadarch. This is, in essence, what Rama et all are if they use Astras, since they tend to deliver them with bows. The key reason being is that Astra's can't just be used by anybody - they specifically have to be granted by a deity and/or the user must know the incantation for each given Astra.
You also can't use Finger of Death on a Spell Storing weapon.
Spell Storing only goes up to lv3 - FOD is a 7th level spell at best.
I mean, there's always this:
Shivastra
Slot None | Aura Overwhelming Transmutation | CL 20 | Weight --- | Cost 131,000gp
Description:
Once per day, when this +1 Adamantine Arrow strikes a creature, that creature is targeted by an Empowered Disintegrate spell (CL20).
---
1d6+1+60d6 before modifiers. Boom.
20d6 and yeah I know it's less than the one Dafydd did, but I'm going for the "most damage in one arrow" thing like OP.Except using explosive missile is a standard action in and of itself, which will preclude a full attack, as far as I can see.
So you can fire one arrow with 10d6 bonus bomb damage and whatever else. Not nearly the damage output of the 7 bombs dafydd indicated.
How is it 20? Normal alehcmist bombs scale only to 10d6. I must be unfamiliar with this option that doubles damage. Still, 20d6 isn't so crazy. 70 damage + your other options. It's good for a single hit though.
I originally thought you were trying to modify onto dafydd's build.
Not only can you not use finger of death in a spell storing weapon, but you can't have a spell storing arrow in the first place (spell storing only works with melee weapons).
You are also short-changing both your BAB and spell damage.
Ranger 1/wizard (Evocation/Admixture) 6/eldritch knight 2/arcane archer 3/eldritch knight +8 gives you +17 BAB and spell progression as a 17th level wizard. Take the Magical Knack (Wizard) trait and use an ioun stone (orange prism) to get your CL to 20 (to help penetrate SR). Don't bother with keen edge, when you can wear bracers of falcon's aim. Then, instead of imbuing Empowered delayed blast fireball, imbue an Intensified Maximized Widened detonate (9th-level slot): 123 points of damage (15d8 with Intensified Spell, Maximized plus 3 from Intense Spells) of your choice of energy damage (acid, cold, electricity, or fire) in a 60 ft radius (Widen Spell) centered on the oni (per Imbue Arrow), half on a save (61); this will catch all of the denizens of Leng in the area, as well. Alternately, you could have a 60 ft cone (can change the energy type with Versatile Evocation) with an Intensified Maximized cone of cold.
Something like Druid 8/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 2/Druid +11 could throw around arrows imbued with Control Winds to tornado speeds. That's a much larger amount of property destruction than mere 10' radius bombs or similar.
With the right SLA you could drop the wizard level. The tornado force winds starting from any conditions requires a caster level of 18. With magical knack, a prayer bead of karma and an orange prism ioun stone you could do this at character level 13+.
Wow, awesome responses, thanks!
Claxon- you are right that I am looking for a single bow shot that wrecks the world. Also, a quick check shows that True Strike is a standard action that effects the next round, so you can cast True Strike in one round then have is stack with Smite the next round.
Chbgraphicarts- wow, I should have come right to you first. Gandiva is just what I was thinking about. I hadn’t read the Myrmadarch rules before, it looks close to what I’m aiming for. Does it work well with Arcane Archer? Also, where did you find Shivastra? Is there an Indian-inspired book out there that I missed?
Dafydd & Lone Knave- I like your alchemist builds, very useful in a game, but they feel more like when Apollo comes down off the mountain raining down destruction than the single “don’t make me shoot this thing it might break the world” of archers from India. Please keep arguing, though.
Dragonchess Player- no spell storing arrows? Ugh, that was key. I like your build, though. I always go to Paladin / Sorcerers for things like this, but your works.
AVR- nice, I’m playing an urban druid now that I play as a pure caster, so I like getting druids into the mix.
Okay, great effort on ideas to kill the Oni in the middle, now who else has ideas on killing the army of minions and wrecking the countryside around it at the same time?
That sounds clearly like it should be handled with mythic material. You can't build a mythic concept with non-mythic rules.
Claxon- you are right that I am looking for a single bow shot that wrecks the world. Also, a quick check shows that True Strike is a standard action that effects the next round, so you can cast True Strike in one round then have is stack with Smite the next round.
Sorry, I assumed you were doing a quickened truestrike to be able to perform everything in one round.
If you have to cast a buff the round before...doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose of a single devastating attack? I'm just trying to understand the ultimate goal. I would think any long duration buffs (mins/level) are fair game, but rounds per level or less didn't seem like the qualified for the theme to me. But Perhaps I've interpreted it incorrectly.
I realise that Arjuna and the others can do wild things with there bows and arrows. But for the Indian Archer demigod that can shoot the world i would go with a Zen-Archer and let the Super Shot be a artifact.
Alternatly a Admixture evoker school savant arcanist 6/weapon master figther 4/ arcane archer 10 and build like a blockbuster (proberbly a elf to get spell penetration up a bit) can have 15d6x1,5+3 fireball arrows possibly of the dazing variant
magic knack, spell focus(evo), empower spell, intensify spell, spell spec.(fireball), dazing spell, spell perfection, both spell penetrations and archery stuff
He will also be a ok archer with only 3 bab lost give him a otherworldly kimono all the proper archer stuff:)
AVR- nice, I’m playing an urban druid now that I play as a pure caster, so I like getting druids into the mix.
Okay, great effort on ideas to kill the Oni in the middle, now who else has ideas on killing the army of minions and wrecking the countryside around it at the same time?
It's a smaller scale, but Arrow Eruption can finish off the mooks nicely if you use a slaying arrow. And also set them on fire if you use an igniting bow, which might in turn set other things alight if there's no one left there to put out the fires.
You'd probably want to quicken it which means either you devote traits to it and cast it as a 4th level spell minimum, or you cast it as a 6th level spell (which eliminates rangers from the possible classes to do it, and they're the most martial of the classes to get access to the spell) ... or you use a lesser metamagic rod of quicken spell. The latter would require at least 3 hands with the bow as well, which seems appropriate somehow.
Chbgraphicarts- wow, I should have come right to you first. Gandiva is just what I was thinking about. I hadn’t read the Myrmadarch rules before, it looks close to what I’m aiming for. Does it work well with Arcane Archer? Also, where did you find Shivastra? Is there an Indian-inspired book out there that I missed?
I created it, using the Magic Item Creation rules.
Spell Level (6 + 2 for empowered) x Caster Level (lv20) x Use Activation (2000) x Uses/Day (1/5 or .2) x Item Slot (Weapon, so none, thus x2) + 2000 (+1 Enhancement Bonus) + 60 (Adamantine Ammunition) = 130,060gp ~ 131,000gp
There is no such Astra called the Shivastra in any literature - I just used the name as an indicator, since Shiva is the destroyer form of Brahma.
Instead, Shiva has 3 weapons ascribed to him: Pashupatastra, the Parashu, and the Trishula. Only the Pashupatastra is an arrow.
If you dig enough, there are over 100 Astras and other weapons employed in the Mahabarata and Ramayana. Rama, at various points, uses or at least owns almost all of them. 49 of them are specifically dispelling arrows, but Rama carried 53 weapons (mostly arrows, but at least 2 maces, 2 bows, a sword, Chakram/disk, etc.), and there are several more besides those that weren't used or carried by Rama.
That sounds clearly like it should be handled with mythic material. You can't build a mythic concept with non-mythic rules.
It kinda depends on how literally you take the "can destroy the world" nonsense.
There are ways to get effects very close to those described in the Mahabarata and Ramayana, save for the "destroys the universe" thing.
While I'd agree that Rama and several other Avatars are both a unique Race and using several or max Mythic Tiers, it doesn't preclude all the Astras from being made.
Assuming that most Astras follow the "don't break, but only X/day uses" model, you can get powerful Astras for somewhere between 40,000 and 150,000gp. So, a non-Mythic, non-Epic character might own one to several Astra.
Given, though, that DOES lead credence to the notion that Rama is playing in not just a Mythic campaign, but a Mythic Epic campaign, since owning all those weapons would easily price out to 2,500,000gp+, meaning that Rama would need to be higher than lv20, probably closer to lv25 or perhaps even higher.
I sometimes read about Indian mythology and wonder if people who wrote about it played some kind of ancient roleplaying game like Pathfinder to make up characters based on these deities. Much of the literature seems to try to codify the power levels of what they and their weaponry could do.