New agro mechanic


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Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Corky Thatcher wrote:
I don't think many of you understand the problems with not being able to take on T2 Escalations. They grow more powerful and expand into adjoining hexes if you don't fight them.
Devs have indicated on the GW forums that the T2 escalations will not spread to surrounding hexes at this time.

Except they clearly do. They might be nearing the limits of their expansion, but the two T2 escalations I've been involved with have spread into the surrounding hexes.


The Mordant Spire escalation have already expanded into the ROAD hex between the south entrance to Zombie Kitten Mountain and the settlement of Golgotha.

In another week or two it will be like a toll bridge you pay using durability. Sloppy travelers are already paying that toll.

Goblin Squad Member

I think they said the Mordant Spire will only spread to 2 neighboring hexes (for now).

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Devs have indicated on the GW forums that the T2 escalations will not spread to surrounding hexes at this time.

Devs may have indicated that, but it is not true. The tier 2 Ogg escalation SE of RiverBank has spread into half a dozen hexes, all now at over 15%...

Goblinworks Executive Founder

That sounds like a big report. Which hexes, by number, have active t2 escalations? Don't count ones where the percentage shows but events and monsters are not spawning.

Goblin Squad Member

Jo Jampa wrote:
sspitfire1 wrote:
TEO Cheatle wrote:
If you want to nerf something else, please nerf energetic field, it is broken, extremely broken.

I think an 18 second cool down would do it, since it only lasts 2 rounds.

Also, getting the arcane penalty tech in for heavy armor would help tremendously.

And then there are charges....

I understand you want to avoid spamming this as well. But what is the wizard equivalent of the cleric orison "agile feet"? You can spam that as well without penalty. Should it also get a longer cool down? Is the real goal that no buffing/healing cantrips/orisons/spells should be able to be spammed in a combat?

Agile Feet is Quickened (+10% Speed and +5 Base Attack/Reflex) 2 rounds, while Energetic Field is Hasted (+30% Speed and +15 Base Attack/Reflex) AND Dodging (+20 Reflex or +40 with Opportunity) to self 2 rounds.

Very different.

Goblin Squad Member

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ALSO -- It should be noted that Wizards already have a hasting expendable called Speed. It costs 10 power to activate, yet there is no reason to ever use it because Energetic Field is just better and free.

And Energetic Field is actually:

- Hasted 2 to all
- Dodging 2 to all
- Riposting 2 to all
- Striking 2 to all

Four buffs to all nearby players on a spammable button. It surpasses expendables like Bless and Speed which give just ONE of those buffs.

Goblin Squad Member

Archetype wrote:
T2 challenges should have T2 rewards.

Like...T2 fun? T2 satisfaction? T2 pride? I agree.

Goblin Squad Member

Axi Hoffman wrote:
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Devs have indicated on the GW forums that the T2 escalations will not spread to surrounding hexes at this time.
Devs may have indicated that, but it is not true. The tier 2 Ogg escalation SE of RiverBank has spread into half a dozen hexes, all now at over 15%...

Actually, the devs indicated that each escalation currently has a max spread value that was arbitrarily assigned to each current escalation playing on the map relative to their strengths. IE weaker escalation types are being allowed to spread farther if left unchecked while the most difficult (Mordent Spire) has been capped at 3 hexes. Sadly the AI chose the road as one of those 3 hexes.

Goblin Squad Member

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The priest in his tattered cloak over a rusty and well worn chainmail, rised his bony arms towards the sky and cackled:

"Let the people be tried, find those who are worthy of live in the River land. Let them be challanged, force them to cooperate, force them to fight over scraps, for survival, for their future!
Force them to use brains and brawn, to trade and to war, to follow the freedom of HANSPUR! The true god of the River Land!"

Looking around to see if anyone saw him he slunk away into the brushwood to pedlar his wares.

Goblin Squad Member

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So, how are we supposed to manage aggro/crowd control when someone 50 yards from the puller who isn't involved in the fight gets attacked?

The game is becoming more and more pointless for those in light or cloth armour.

Goblin Squad Member

actually, isn't Agile Feet now a 6 round buff? And I do agree that Energetic Field is nice, was just curious if there was a cantrip similar to agile feet.

As for the spell Speed .. I could only see using it if I needed to slot a different attack and couldn't then slot Energetic Field.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Tier 2 armour is close. I have the lodestone (for 1) - I have the armoursmith. Just needs the first rank 8 refiners now.

And not all is bad. Close to settlements you can now draw aggro and flee past the Thornguards and they actually chase away / kill the monsters following you.

We are in a difficult inbetween and I feel sorry for the settlements next to such monster groups.

Goblin Squad Member

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK *try to run f f f im still rooted f f f dead OR attack wait attack wtf i pushed the button why no spell ... overwelmed dead. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF stop FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF rooting me!!!!

solution!
spells can already disrupt so make a spell that's always on everyone that activates on movement casing 100% disruption. End this rooting BS. I cannot see your code but to say it would take to long is garbage and you know it.

This is a bit harsh and random rantish and I cannot speak for archer animations but for arcane the animation is insane also many of the cool downs that are stated to be the same are different in practice. Very hard to figure out what spells are fast/slow rooting duration. The reason one must spam the attack key is that often a spell will go uncast even though you hit the key and then you end up rooted. It is incredibly unrealistic for ranged vs melee to always end up in melee range where every ranged ability triggers provoked. Instead of nerfing ranged with a stupid root how about being creative enough to add a shield bonus for ranged defense? Combine this with movement interrupting ranged attacks and combat would be decent.

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Phyllain wrote:
So do the devs really just not want us doing the harder escalations? With the healing nerf (and it is a nerf) and the changes to agro its impossible to tank and impossible to kite. So are we just not suppose to do harder mobs?

Uncreative dev's nerf creative dev's add mechanics. Successful companies have creative dev's outnumbering nerf spammers.

Goblin Squad Member

Jo Jampa wrote:

actually, isn't Agile Feet now a 6 round buff? And I do agree that Energetic Field is nice, was just curious if there was a cantrip similar to agile feet.

As for the spell Speed .. I could only see using it if I needed to slot a different attack and couldn't then slot Energetic Field.

Agile Feet lasts 6 rounds now but it has a massive cooldown now too. Energetic Field remains spammable for 20% more speed.

Goblin Squad Member

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Pyronous Rath wrote:
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK *try to run f f f im still rooted f f f dead OR attack wait attack wtf i pushed the button why no spell ... overwelmed dead. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF stop FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF rooting me!!!!...

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for but I'm gonna give it anyway.

I have that happen a lot playing solo. When I'm in a group, I can usually add another ATTACK or two in there because someone has slowed the mob. While I'm rooted, someone usually throws me a heal on top of the resilience I fire off to help me get through the hits while I work on knocking stacks down so I can run. It chases. The other guys focus fire. Its not long before it either goes down, or if its purple and I stopped attacking it, it gets pulled to one of the other guys by their attacks. After a while, you know who in your group is going to get aggro'd more, who is going to go down faster once they close, and you modify your strategy to compensate. And sometimes it doesn't work and it all goes to s!#~ :) The new aggro mechanic has made it less predictable and I'm ok with that.

tl;dr
if what you're doing isn't working, change it up

Goblin Squad Member

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<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:


The game is becoming more and more pointless for those in light or cloth armour.

I think one of the issues with wizard robes is that, unlike all the other armor classes (with feats like Dragoon or Archer or Scout), not one of the robe feats give a bump to arcane attack bonus.

A wizard armor feat that improved arcane attack bonus might tempt more people away from the other armors.

Goblin Squad Member

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I think once we have armor penalties to magic attacks, we'll see the light/cloth armor strategy really start to come into its own (and Energy Field won't seem so OP).

Goblin Squad Member

Capitalocracy wrote:
I think once we have armor penalties to magic attacks, we'll see the light/cloth armor strategy really start to come into its own (and Energy Field won't seem so OP).

How do you even get energy field just wait for it to drop?!

Goblin Squad Member

Energetic field is a cantrip. Should be able to learn it at either the Wizard school or the war wizard. It would then appear in your feat and could be equipped to a staff if you have one equipped.

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Daeglin wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK *try to run f f f im still rooted f f f dead OR attack wait attack wtf i pushed the button why no spell ... overwelmed dead. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF stop FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF rooting me!!!!...

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for but I'm gonna give it anyway.

I have that happen a lot playing solo. When I'm in a group, I can usually add another ATTACK or two in there because someone has slowed the mob. While I'm rooted, someone usually throws me a heal on top of the resilience I fire off to help me get through the hits while I work on knocking stacks down so I can run. It chases. The other guys focus fire. Its not long before it either goes down, or if its purple and I stopped attacking it, it gets pulled to one of the other guys by their attacks. After a while, you know who in your group is going to get aggro'd more, who is going to go down faster once they close, and you modify your strategy to compensate. And sometimes it doesn't work and it all goes to s@%* :) The new aggro mechanic has made it less predictable and I'm ok with that.

tl;dr
if what you're doing isn't working, change it up

My problem with this answer is that GW will see this and oh good our sh$%^ combat makes them work in a group. FFFFFFF

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Energetic field is a cantrip. Should be able to learn it at either the Wizard school or the war wizard. It would then appear in your feat and could be equipped to a staff if you have one equipped.

nope not there. Anyone who knows? ah nm occult school.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Pyronous Rath wrote:
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK *try to run f f f im still rooted f f f dead OR attack wait attack wtf i pushed the button why no spell ... overwelmed dead. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF stop FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Don't do that. You're gonna die a lot.

Try using shorter duration attacks, if you can't maintain enough disciple to use attacks only when you want to. Failing that, start to run away a couple of seconds sooner than you currently do.

Adapting is important.

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK *try to run f f f im still rooted f f f dead OR attack wait attack wtf i pushed the button why no spell ... overwelmed dead. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF stop FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Don't do that. You're gonna die a lot.

Try using shorter duration attacks, if you can't maintain enough disciple to use attacks only when you want to. Failing that, start to run away a couple of seconds sooner than you currently do.

Adapting is important.

oh you must have not read or understood my post. I cannot run away I am rooted a shorter cool down does not mean I wont be rooted in fact I would be rooted more as you are not rooted for the cool down you are rooted for the animation. Reading is important ;-).

Goblin Squad Member

Pyro, you must play an another game ... I usually hunt ogres with longbow, i kill one and run away when the rest comes thundering. The rooting may cause me to take hits, but since last patch I only have died one (and that was because there was an execution squad of Runts I had missed).

So either you are writing in the wrong forum, or you have failed in adapting your tactics...

Goblin Squad Member

Since the patch, I have died zero times on my 1000 xp longbow alt while farming the TOUGHEST MOBS IN THE GAME! (LVL 14 T2 Escalation)

Fix your tactics.

Goblin Squad Member

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Kyutaru wrote:

Since the patch, I have died zero times on my 1000 xp longbow alt while farming the TOUGHEST MOBS IN THE GAME! (LVL 14 T2 Escalation)

Fix your tactics.

solo? fraps or it didn't happen

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:

Pyro, you must play an another game ... I usually hunt ogres with longbow, i kill one and run away when the rest comes thundering. The rooting may cause me to take hits, but since last patch I only have died one (and that was because there was an execution squad of Runts I had missed).

So either you are writing in the wrong forum, or you have failed in adapting your tactics...

you can kill an oger before the group gets to you?!?! ok just looked at your dmg mods for longbow feats vs staff feats your distance 35 feats do quite a bit more dmg Ill have to do some time testing but im pretty sure your attacks are faster too. Your tactics have zero to do with it. FYI standing rooted while firing spells or arrows is not tactics. Clearly spells like killing joke need some love.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Running before it is too late is tactics.

You have to time when to do the last shot. I mainly die if I think just this one more - I'm still fine.

Goblin Squad Member

Mmm my experience with magic is limited in this game, but really, is there any game where Wizzies are supposed to be a solo role...

Not in pathfinder, anyway ... and really not here...


Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Energetic field is a cantrip. Should be able to learn it at either the Wizard school or the war wizard. It would then appear in your feat and could be equipped to a staff if you have one equipped.

Energetic Field is not available from the Occultist Cantrip trainer for me, either (Killing Joke is another that is missing, neither are on the "Untrainable" tab either). Yes, I have just added all the starter Arcane Feats needed and have a staff.

I bug reported this already, but has anyone actually trained Energetic Field as a new Arcane character since the last patch?

Goblin Squad Member

Archetype wrote:
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Energetic field is a cantrip. Should be able to learn it at either the Wizard school or the war wizard. It would then appear in your feat and could be equipped to a staff if you have one equipped.

Energetic Field is not available from the Occultist Cantrip trainer for me, either (Killing Joke is another that is missing, neither are on the "Untrainable" tab either). Yes, I have just added all the starter Arcane Feats needed and have a staff.

I bug reported this already, but has anyone actually trained Energetic Field as a new Arcane character since the last patch?

I did on an alt, yes. Sorry - I'm not familiar with the trainers and their locations.

One had 1 version of arcane weapon proficiency and I bought that, then had a ton of possible catrips but not Energetic Field. I checked the other mage trainer and found it there.

Goblinworks Founder

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Longbow users have no issue killing ogres and red casters Solo.

Overdraw - Parting Shot (20M Evade) - Basic LB exploit - Evade (utility 20M Evade) - Basic LB exploit/Parting Shot

This should take down any none-red ogre and <=red casters on the first go round with plenty of room to run away from the main mob. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.

Just don't get caught by a slow or stun effect, but the first parting shot should help you avoid that:)

Goblin Squad Member

Great to hear that monsters are evolving, sounds like we will need to do the same.

Goblin Squad Member

Pyronous Rath wrote:
Kyutaru wrote:

Since the patch, I have died zero times on my 1000 xp longbow alt while farming the TOUGHEST MOBS IN THE GAME! (LVL 14 T2 Escalation)

Fix your tactics.

solo? fraps or it didn't happen

What? Who the hell does anything solo in a full loot PVP game?

The aggro mechanics change that this thread is referring to is the fact that mobs will aggro onto random members of the puller's party. So yes, I have not died at all while having random purple knights trying to kill me.

Group tactics are everything. No one should be dying right now.


Perfect play will lead to no deaths.

Less than perfect play used to only hurt the character who screwed up.

NOW, less than perfect play can screw up people who were playing perfectly.

I think that is a HUGE mistake for a game that wants social interactions... because you'll see players segregating into elite tiers of play that will tolerate no mistakes from other characters.

If you want a game where choices matter then the choice of sloppy play ought to directly harm the sloppy player, not OTHERS who have chosen precise and careful play.

Before the AI changes players could show tolerance for another player's mistakes.

If devs insist on an AI system that lets a sloppy player harm good players, you're going to wind up with segregation.

MAYBE that's what they want. MAYBE that's what we, as crowdforgers want. But I feel this is EXACTLY the kind of change that should have been DISCUSSED and CROWDFORGED before being implemented. It certainly needs crowdforging NOW.

My opinion is that I like being able to be tolerant (and having others be able to be tolerant) of less than perfect play in PvE.

If that is NOT what we want, I'll adapt; but we ought to be clear about what we want.

Goblin Squad Member

I don't really agree with your position simply because perfect play isn't required for content at your tier level. No one should be dying to T1 escalations, and those are what we're meant to be farming at T1.

Should perfect play be absolutely required for T2 escalations right now? Yes, because we're overreaching our boundaries and taking on stuff we have no business taking on without waiting for our XP to catch up.

This is kind of like how Raids work in theme park MMOs. When the raid first launches, there's always some guild that clears the entire thing with their crappy loot through PERFECT PLAY. They are the Elites. Everyone who follows needs to farm the crap out of the first few bosses until they get powerful enough to overcome the raid through raw numbers. By the time your entire raid is geared with loot drops from that dungeon, the bosses are EASY.

Same thing here in PFO. By the time we have Tier 2 loot, these T2 mobs will be easy. For now, only the Elite Perfect Players need try. Everyone else can busily farm T1 mobs and T2 resource nodes until crafters hand them their upgrades.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Pyronous Rath wrote:
DeciusBrutus wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK *try to run f f f im still rooted f f f dead OR attack wait attack wtf i pushed the button why no spell ... overwelmed dead. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF stop FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Don't do that. You're gonna die a lot.

Try using shorter duration attacks, if you can't maintain enough disciple to use attacks only when you want to. Failing that, start to run away a couple of seconds sooner than you currently do.

Adapting is important.

oh you must have not read or understood my post. I cannot run away I am rooted a shorter cool down does not mean I wont be rooted in fact I would be rooted more as you are not rooted for the cool down you are rooted for the animation. Reading is important ;-).

Yes it is. Faster attacks have shorter animations. Which you know, because you've tried a variety of tactics before settling on the one that was broken OP before the immobile fix.

Goblin Squad Member

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You don't even need to be elite to be tearing through Tier 2 escalations right now. Decent tactics and around 6-8 players can handle either the Ustalavian Escalation or the Ogre Escalation. I can't speak to the Mordant Spire escalation as I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with it yet.


Not trying to be a jerk, but Golgotha farming the crap out of Mordant Spire with impunity is probably the reason this came down.

I won't fault Golgotha for using tactics that work, it's more of a fault in game mechanics, so now it's been addressed apparently.

The strategy was:

Agro a group of 10 purple mobs via one puller hitting one mob, have your farm group target precisely just that one mob, and focus fire on that one, and then have the agro person run away with the rest of the purple mobs who do nothing to help their one poor NPC buddy who gets focus fired to death asap. That Mob group will completely ignore every other player.

If any one screws up and pulls agro, they run away to die alone, then mobs reset.

Rinse and repeat till the purple mob group is killed off. Takes only a couple of minutes per mob group.

Being able to use simple tactics like these as starter players hitting purple mobs, if allowed to remain, would basically put any settlement without a T2 escalation next door basically at a disadvantage for farming high end resources and recipes.

Goblin Squad Member

Thod wrote:

Running before it is too late is tactics.

You have to time when to do the last shot. I mainly die if I think just this one more - I'm still fine.

I have done this with a red ogre. I get off two spells then need to retreat. While i have no problem with this scenario I do not see the point of hitting a mob and retreating as their hp will have recovered by the time you have enough range to attack again.

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
DeciusBrutus wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK *try to run f f f im still rooted f f f dead OR attack wait attack wtf i pushed the button why no spell ... overwelmed dead. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF stop FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Don't do that. You're gonna die a lot.

Try using shorter duration attacks, if you can't maintain enough disciple to use attacks only when you want to. Failing that, start to run away a couple of seconds sooner than you currently do.

Adapting is important.

oh you must have not read or understood my post. I cannot run away I am rooted a shorter cool down does not mean I wont be rooted in fact I would be rooted more as you are not rooted for the cool down you are rooted for the animation. Reading is important ;-).
Yes it is. Faster attacks have shorter animations. Which you know, because you've tried a variety of tactics before settling on the one that was broken OP before the immobile fix.

Animation time/feat speed should be listed in the feat tooltip. Accurate testing is quite difficult because the attack and effect are not synchronized. Since I am not privy to server io any testing will have wildly inaccurate results.

Goblin Squad Member

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Schedim wrote:

Mmm my experience with magic is limited in this game, but really, is there any game where Wizzies are supposed to be a solo role...

Not in pathfinder, anyway ... and really not here...

From what I have seen arcane castors only advantage is AOE. As the game stands the only action ingame where this is an advantage is farming low level mobs solo. Arcane castors cannot do the dps to take out yellow mobs before the group reaches them unlike bow users. In a group AOE spells can only be used once or twice before group members are in melee range of mobs and will be hit by the AOE. This is especially crippling in the case of groups of mobs in melee range of the caster due to agro due to the caster needing to hit the mobs first with ranged AOE. Bow users can switch to a melee weapon which does not provoke plus they have physical resist from armor. Arcane castors ONLY defense is mobility(NERFED) and melee ranged spells wich are highly interruptible and provoke opportunity(BROKEN).

CEO, Goblinworks

The time listed for all attack Feats is correct, but it does not include the .3 second validation period. So add .3 to all listed times and you will have the correct total attack time.

(The listed time is the cooldown time and there are some short-term reasons why we list it instead of the total attack time.)

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:

The time listed for all attack Feats is correct, but it does not include the .3 second validation period. So add .3 to all listed times and you will have the correct total attack time.

(The listed time is the cooldown time and there are some short-term reasons why we list it instead of the total attack time.)

so both will be listed in the future ok cool at least thats something.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

And right now both are the same, with iirc a couple of exceptions for the cleric buffs.

Goblin Squad Member

Garreth Steele wrote:

Longbow users have no issue killing ogres and red casters Solo.

Overdraw - Parting Shot (20M Evade) - Basic LB exploit - Evade (utility 20M Evade) - Basic LB exploit/Parting Shot

This should take down any none-red ogre and <=red casters on the first go round with plenty of room to run away from the main mob. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.

Just don't get caught by a slow or stun effect, but the first parting shot should help you avoid that:)

Does Parting Shot work? I can't get Snapshot (the shorbow version) (10M Evade) to move me more than a couple of inches.

Goblin Squad Member

Parting shoot works, and have done so since I discovered in late alpha. I has happened that it fails, but that could be to outer circumstances.

Goblin Squad Member

They told us to stop using parting shot/snap shot in alpha due to the belief that it caused the "falling through the world" bug. I only re-learnt snap shot yesterday but have not had it work since then. I will give it a few more tries tonight.

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