Views on sexuality in the Campaign Setting


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Sex is an important part of my games. Roll are by the aggressive/initiating partner. So far, noone has complained save for the occasional unsatisfying lover/partner.


I've only played a few characters, and I tend to play them as asexual as possible for fear of offending anyone. But sometimes I think it'd be fun to flirt with a NPC that we meet. But then, how much is too much?

Grand Lodge

Duiker wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:
Ms. Pleiades wrote:
Recently finished a session where the group's swashbuckler got invited be the third party in a threesome with a half-elf Calistrian, and a fallen paladin.

You didn't mention the gender of even one of the three.

Now I think the gender of a person is irrelevant to a lot things, perhaps most, but not when it comes to having sex with someone or a group.

It matters at least as much as Ikea instructions.
I didn't know Ikea sold sex partners.
Then you haven't fully explored the sensual possibilities of plastic plants.

True Neutral Female Azata-blooded Aasimar Swashbuckler 4, True Neutral Old Male Chellish Human Wizard 3/ Paladin 2, and a Chaotic Neutral Female Half-Elf Inquisitor of Calistria 4, if you all must know.


The groups I play with tend to be uncomfortable with sexuality in the game, so I avoid it.

When I play with other kinky/BDSM people, though, the sky is the limit.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Buy gold! Buy!

Shoot! And me without my deer teeth to trade.

Joynt Jezebel wrote:
Ms. Pleiades wrote:
Recently finished a session where the group's swashbuckler got invited be the third party in a threesome with a half-elf Calistrian, and a fallen paladin.

You didn't mention the gender of even one of the three.

Bolded relevant portion. Were you even paying attention?


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My gaming group is mature adults who all watch hard-R media like Game of Thrones, so we have sex and sexuality in our games. Since love and sex have been a major part of every art form ever in the history of the world. I don't understand why people have this mental block only with RPGs as opposed to every single other form of art and media they deal with.

In the pirate campaign I'm running now, one PC is the lover of a jealous voodoo loa (a fantasy version of Mama Wati). She occasionally shows up and things go all Angel Heart.

One PC who's a serpent shaman got married to an actual serpentfolk woman and now she's pregnant, courtesy Honeymoon Rock from the Open Design module From Shore to Sea.

One is a priest of Gozreh and is thus celibate.

One is an assassin who rescued Lavender Lil from Riddleport and they have now joined up with the cult of Nocticula via a succubus they encountered. They have her profane gift and everything.

All this makes the campaign the real story of the characters' lives, not a series of "CR-appropriate encounters" to be beaten into submission to win the game via leveling or whatever. We like to call it "roleplaying."


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One is a priest of Gozreh----->Somthing happens----> is celibate

That doesn't really follow.


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Duiker wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:
Ms. Pleiades wrote:
Recently finished a session where the group's swashbuckler got invited be the third party in a threesome with a half-elf Calistrian, and a fallen paladin.

You didn't mention the gender of even one of the three.

Now I think the gender of a person is irrelevant to a lot things, perhaps most, but not when it comes to having sex with someone or a group.

It matters at least as much as Ikea instructions.
I didn't know Ikea sold sex partners.
Then you haven't fully explored the sensual possibilities of plastic plants.

And its all going to be safe sex!!!

OK, I am giving up RPGs. Ikea here I come.


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Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
The only way you could completely exclude sexuality from your game is have everyone be androids.

Wrong.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

One is a priest of Gozreh----->Somthing happens----> is celibate

That doesn't really follow.

I'd agree, but with the caveat that it doesn't automatically follow. I do believe there is at least one published cleric or druid of Gozreh who was celibate because of it. In which case it becomes a function of their tradition rather than a function of their deity. But as presented, yeah, that's... confusing.


Ernest Mueller wrote:
I don't understand why people have this mental block only with RPGs as opposed to every single other form of art and media they deal with.

I find this somewhat hard to believe.

And this:

Quote:
every single other form of art and media they deal with.

is simply untrue.

Quote:
We like to call it "roleplaying."

Good for you?


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

For a long time I used to use the idea of defining NPCs by Sex & Drugs & Rock and Roll.

"sex" equaling the NPCs thoughts on sexuality and how it motivates them.

"drugs" equaling the NPCs thoughts on recreation, personal opiates which could include religion

"rock and roll" equaling the NPCs thoughts on violence, often the most basic and reduced to "how-does-this-NPC-kill-things", to which the answer could be "the NPC doesn't".

Primarily is was a mechanism to reject the asexual murderhobo nature of adventurers. Without basic human (demi-human, humanoid, whatever) drivers as motivators to action, I personally feel that makes the game not a role-playing game, but a miniatures game.

In a miniatures game, there is conflict, often between two sides, with a winner and a loser. Often without a real reason for "Why are we fighting here?" or "What is our real goal?" (which may not be a simple "kill those guys")

I've always wanted players to have a connection to their characters and to the other characters in the game, including NPCs. While, for me, it's occasionally fun to just throw some dice and kill monsters leaving a bloody trail, that's not fun for me long term. I dont really have any boundaries in this area, but I'd certainly try to respect those of others.

I've definitely had players who played characters that their sexuality and their sexual identity was an important part of who they are and was a driver for their actions within the campaign. This did not necessarily mean that these things became family unfriendly.

Sexuality is a major motivation for human activity. The drive to reproduce is an evolutionary imperative - no drive to reproduce = fewer if any offspring = equals a trait less likely to be passed down to children.

Without drivers other than "how can I improve my stat block", the game becomes pretty dull to me, both as a player and a DM. I can certainly understand that it is a that might bother the overly sensitive - I think that Paizo has done a pretty good job of respecting those boundaries while still leaving enough for those want to explore such mature topics.


Hey I like the sex drugs rnr concept... Totally stealing that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For those who did not know, the villain of one of the "Iron Gods" books is an openly bisexual barbarian warlord with a harem of both men and women "depending on his mood that day". The theme of Kellid peoples having an open understanding of sexuality was also present in one of the "Wrath of the Righteous" books where another Kellid warlord's lover was described as "consort" and their gender left to the DM to interpret. I have to say, I always appreciate it when there's a little nod like that - not just because it leaves room for sexual orientation of different people open, but it also lets me tailor the enemies to the group. I've sometimes found that different players find it far more meaningful to see a spread of sexualities in the npcs they encounter.

It's really cool to see what people scrounge up. I had no idea that Iomadae might be a mother! From what I can say off-hand, it seems like Kellid peoples from Sarkoris (the Worldwound) to Numeria seem at least generally more open-minded (or at least of a might-makes-right mentality). And, because someone mentioned androids earlier, androids in Golarion are at least capable of performing, if not reproducing in the standard biological manner.


xeose4 wrote:
I had no idea that Iomadae might be a mother!

Wrath of the Righteous:
There's an option in Wrath of the Righteous to play as one of Iomedae's children. It requires taking the Touched by Divinity campaign trait and having Iomedae as your patron deity. The revelation takes place in Book 3.

Tacticslion wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

One is a priest of Gozreh----->Somthing happens----> is celibate

That doesn't really follow.

I'd agree, but with the caveat that it doesn't automatically follow. I do believe there is at least one published cleric or druid of Gozreh who was celibate because of it. In which case it becomes a function of their tradition rather than a function of their deity. But as presented, yeah, that's... confusing.

I suspect that people who are actually celibate because they are supposed to be celibate is rather more common in RPGs than the real world.


Depends on the RPGs!


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"These men are all celibate, like their fathers and grandfathers before them..."

Grand Lodge

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Sissyl wrote:
"These men are all celibate, like their fathers and grandfathers before them..."

"You keep using that word; I don't think it means what you think it means."


Celibate- "Abstaining from marriage and sexual relations, typically for religious reasons." Oxford English Dictionary Online.
And its a quote from a comedy film, the name of which escapes me at this moment. I am pretty sure its being used correctly. Maybe its got an older rare meaning.


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Hot Shots Part Deux.


Joynt Jezebel wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

One is a priest of Gozreh----->Somthing happens----> is celibate

That doesn't really follow.

I'd agree, but with the caveat that it doesn't automatically follow. I do believe there is at least one published cleric or druid of Gozreh who was celibate because of it. In which case it becomes a function of their tradition rather than a function of their deity. But as presented, yeah, that's... confusing.
I suspect that people who are actually celibate because they are supposed to be celibate is rather more common in RPGs than the real world.

I don't think so for golarion. I think there's a deity that is all for celibacy? but its NOT gozreh as far as I know. I think someone is confusing a real world priest (and a subset of real world religious leaders at that) for all preists


What I was saying is that in the real world, groups that are in theory celibate... always have at least some members who are not, often many.

I wasn't talking about the Catholic Church as such. It is almost impossible to deny human sexuality, or to do so for more than a few individuals. And if you think about evolution, this really must be true.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

After reading through the thread I totally lost track of xavier's questions, so on to those.

xavier c wrote:


(with some editing)
1) Such as do you think the subject of sexuality should be explored?
2) Such as with a pathfinder Campaign Setting book?
3) Does sex ever come up in your games?
4) What do you want to see in the future related to sexuality?

1 - Explored? I think that Paizo has been doing a good job of presenting some topics and hooks for those groups who want to do so can, and that those who are uncomfortable with it can find a way to work around it. Such as the Shayliss Vinder encounter in Rise, with some groups, it may be in appropriate or uncomfortable to run, so just skip it or make it more tame.

2 - With a book, including rules and setting information? Possibly. There are ways to do such without going all Book of Erotic Fantasy. Material on marriage customs and inheritance laws is a perfectly valid and would still be PG material.

3 - Yes, when appropriate.

4 - I think that in a world where magic is real there would certainly be spells that stray into topics that could relate to sexuality. Spells such as Lover's Vengeance just touch on some thoughts. Divinations to sort out true noble bloodlines, Fertility magic. How to find True Love...
Such things are part of real world fokelore and mythology and certainly have a place where magic is real.

Without any thoughts on sexuality, your character cant have a family.
You might as well just skip giving your character a name while you're at it.


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Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Celibate- "Abstaining from marriage and sexual relations, typically for religious reasons." Oxford English Dictionary Online.

And its a quote from a comedy film, the name of which escapes me at this moment. I am pretty sure its being used correctly. Maybe its got an older rare meaning.

Yes, and the response is also a quotation, from another comedy film, The Princess Bride and apropos, considering that the joke from the first one is adequately ironic, so they go well together.


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Ms. Pleiades wrote:

Now I'm wondering about crazy ways Golarion parents have to scare their children away from sex (except with the marriage partner they arrange).

I bet there are several variations of "If you have sex before you marry, the baby will be a tiefling!"

See, once upon a time ago, I was working on a project inspired by a rather amusing series of real life encounters - it was a collection of fantasy cross-racial erotica tales specifically based on incorrect stereotypes and misinformation, with a sort of overarching theme of 'humans are stupi-...er, silly.

This particular post brings to mind the sort of thing that a mother might say to keep their male children from becoming filthy filthy elf-chasers. "Are you that eager to become a father? You know the reason that elves don't keep to their own is because of the fact that human seed is guaranteed to find purchase in an elf. Do you want to break your mother's heart, making her grandchild a half-breed?"

Of course that requires a humanocentric vantage point, even if slightly silly. I would be equally intrigued by the sorts of misinformation held by other random races.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

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Removed a post. We seriously do not have time for these kinds of negatively charged and politically pointed posts aimed at the participants in this thread. If you've got an axe to grind regarding politics, take it to another thread or website.

Dark Archive

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Cheliax.
I'm done here.
*Walks away slowly*
*Explosion*


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My standard for a group I don't know well is Star Trek: The Next Generation sexuality. Since most of the people I know will even let there kids watch that show, but sex, gender, gender role and relationships are themes in a number of episodes (Data, especially, seems to put most of the male officers to shame) it seems to generally work.

If people can't cope with that level of sexuality, in my experience, they tend to be unable to cope with RPing much beyond smash and grab style, which isn't really my thing.

With a group I know and like, sexuality will have a much larger roll. Helping a trans character become the gender they wish, helping an asexual character get out of an arranged marriage (or help there spouse to be understand what it means) and other quests are thing I have included or planned to.

Relationships, romantic, sexual and otherwise tend to be a focus in my games, with a number of recurring characters and a tendency for the players to have a home base in a city which is the main area of play or a large enough mobile base that those NPC's go with them. Relationships tend to progress naturally, and that includes partners, parents and in long term games children.


It is a little weird having to add something you really dont understand to a character just so theyvseem real


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TheAntiElite wrote:
Ms. Pleiades wrote:

Now I'm wondering about crazy ways Golarion parents have to scare their children away from sex (except with the marriage partner they arrange).

I bet there are several variations of "If you have sex before you marry, the baby will be a tiefling!"

See, once upon a time ago, I was working on a project inspired by a rather amusing series of real life encounters - it was a collection of fantasy cross-racial erotica tales specifically based on incorrect stereotypes and misinformation, with a sort of overarching theme of 'humans are stupi-...er, silly.

This particular post brings to mind the sort of thing that a mother might say to keep their male children from becoming filthy filthy elf-chasers. "Are you that eager to become a father? You know the reason that elves don't keep to their own is because of the fact that human seed is guaranteed to find purchase in an elf. Do you want to break your mother's heart, making her grandchild a half-breed?"

Of course that requires a humanocentric vantage point, even if slightly silly. I would be equally intrigued by the sorts of misinformation held by other random races.

gotta love that hilarious level of bigotry.

A fantasy version of blazing saddles comes to mind...

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Mike J wrote:

my gaming group is all older (30+)

I don't want to ever be put in a situation where I have to explain to someone what a <insert adult topic> is.

A 30+ person should know what <insert adult topic> are, barring corner cases.

Also, I find it curious when folks have no problems with murdering sentient beings using balls of magical fire and acid, but flip out at the notion of hiring a prostitute.

I find myself made uncomfortable as a GM when asked to rollplay out the other side of the players sexual encounter. I tend towards the ellipsis once things reach a certain point, otherwise it feels uncomfortably like having message board/phone sex with another person, not between pc and NPC.

But everyone is satisfied, the character flirts out with a succumbs, and wakes up with an std and everyone laughs.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber
the Lorax wrote:

Without any thoughts on sexuality, your character cant have a family.

You might as well just skip giving your character a name while you're at it.

To paraphrase, you are basically saying anyone who does not invole speciality in their character creation, and game are osstensibly playing the game wrong, and shouldn't bother?

Replace sexuality with any other gaming aspect, like "character optimization" or something else of a disputable nature, and you will find your sentiment unpopular. There isn't one right way to play a given RPG, one builds the game appropriate to the audience.

In our local area we have been forced to adopt a PG13 rating (or better) on our games being run out of store locations as we have received a number of complaints of flagrant harassment, or inappropriate content from players and stores, driving away new players, and closing doors to us.(this was beyond PFS we have a general gaming organization of which PFS shares the same spaces and player base.

The point being that our community co tiniest to thrive and enjoy playing games without a more sexual aspect, and they aren't playing wrong, They are playing appropriately for the audience.

People choosing to go beyond the PG13 rating may still use the general meetup to organize, but they must clearly label their game as such, and provider their own gaming space. They must also treat the players respectfully regardless of the co get of the game, I don't know what the percipitating event that led to us needs g a code of conduct that was both prescriptive, but frankly reasonable obvious, but it was a sad day, and it speaks to the lack of maturity with which some are able to Andre these subjects.


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Galnörag wrote:
the Lorax wrote:

Without any thoughts on sexuality, your character cant have a family.

You might as well just skip giving your character a name while you're at it.

To paraphrase, you are basically saying anyone who does not invole speciality in their character creation, and game are osstensibly playing the game wrong, and shouldn't bother?

Replace sexuality with any other gaming aspect, like "character optimization" or something else of a disputable nature, and you will find your sentiment unpopular. There isn't one right way to play a given RPG, one builds the game appropriate to the audience.

In our local area we have been forced to adopt a PG13 rating (or better) on our games being run out of store locations as we have received a number of complaints of flagrant harassment, or inappropriate content from players and stores, driving away new players, and closing doors to us.(this was beyond PFS we have a general gaming organization of which PFS shares the same spaces and player base.

The point being that our community co tiniest to thrive and enjoy playing games without a more sexual aspect, and they aren't playing wrong, They are playing appropriately for the audience.

People choosing to go beyond the PG13 rating may still use the general meetup to organize, but they must clearly label their game as such, and provider their own gaming space. They must also treat the players respectfully regardless of the co get of the game, I don't know what the percipitating event that led to us needs g a code of conduct that was both prescriptive, but frankly reasonable obvious, but it was a sad day, and it speaks to the lack of maturity with which some are able to Andre these subjects.

As a possible misunderstanding, you can involve sexuality in your character and your game while staying well within a PG-13 rating. Or even a G one.

Most Disney movies, for example, involve sexuality and often revolve around it. Almost always heterosexuality and rarely anything more explicit than a kiss, but any romance aspect involves sexuality.

*Exceptions to this involving asexual but not aromantic exist, but aren't common in media.


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the Lorax wrote:
You might as well just skip giving your character a name while you're at it.

Would make things sooooo much easier...


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Hey!!! Fighter the level 2 fighter is not gonna give up his name!


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

With some editing, no intent to misrepresent intended Galnörag

thejeff wrote:
Galnörag wrote:


To paraphrase, you are basically saying anyone who does not invole speciality in their character creation, and game are osstensibly playing the game wrong, and shouldn't bother?

In our local area we have been forced to adopt a PG13 rating...

As a possible misunderstanding, you can involve sexuality in your character and your game while staying well within a PG-13 rating. Or even a G one.

Most Disney movies, for example, involve sexuality and often revolve around it. Almost always heterosexuality and rarely anything...

Exactly thejeff.

Who said anything about including graphic sex scenes in the actual game sessions?
The link for "True Love" that I used above lead to a clip from the Princess Bride. I was in NO WAY saying that a campaign log should read like an erotic story - it could if everyone involved was comfortable with that, but I your paraphrase is based upon some incorrect assumptions.

I certainly admit to being prone to using hyperbole.
It's how I discuss things.
"...playing the game wrong, and shouldn't bother?", The only way any group is Playing The Game Wrong is if everyone is not enjoying themselves. Playing a group of murderhobos with no drives, no personal goals, no motivations would be Playing The Game Wrong - for me.

I DO know that I am not the first person on this thread to make the assertion that "sexuality" does not equal "graphic sex". There are a wide range of topics that could relate to sexuality.

Basic questions about a character go out the window along with the baby and the bath water.
"Tell me about your character's parents, their relationship with you and each other."

Does the response to that have to stray past PG-13? PG? G?

Sissyl wrote:
Hey!!! Fighter the level 2 fighter is not gonna give up his name!

Back in the late 80's I was briefly a player in a game in which the party had a "Pack Cleric" as an NPC - "Haul that treasure and dispense with the bandaids Packee" - none of the players wanted to play a cleric, so they had and NPC cleric with no name who was basically just the party's personal medical kit. If he had a name besides "Packee" I dont know that I ever knew it.


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If you re not comfortable playing it out just ask for three random checks and let the players dirty minds do the rest

An appraise check, a wild empathy check and a fort save...whaaa?


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:

It's nearly impossible to have a campaign without sexuality in it, unless no one's married, no one's in love, no one's flirty, no one mentions that anyone's attractive, and no one has kids or parents.

Highschool had a lot of campaigns like that. Players learn early on that connections are only fodder for the DM to use against you to lure you into a deathtrap!

OMG! The longer I lurk about the Paizo threads the more arguments I see that are actually in favor of an Eberron campaign! A couple more years and I'll be starting my own campaign. o_O

Warforged completely bypass this whole problem/issue regarding sexuality.

Of course, you can always bring sex in but, by nature, it is happily absent among the Warforged.


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Freehold DM wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
Ms. Pleiades wrote:

Now I'm wondering about crazy ways Golarion parents have to scare their children away from sex (except with the marriage partner they arrange).

I bet there are several variations of "If you have sex before you marry, the baby will be a tiefling!"

See, once upon a time ago, I was working on a project inspired by a rather amusing series of real life encounters - it was a collection of fantasy cross-racial erotica tales specifically based on incorrect stereotypes and misinformation, with a sort of overarching theme of 'humans are stupi-...er, silly.

This particular post brings to mind the sort of thing that a mother might say to keep their male children from becoming filthy filthy elf-chasers. "Are you that eager to become a father? You know the reason that elves don't keep to their own is because of the fact that human seed is guaranteed to find purchase in an elf. Do you want to break your mother's heart, making her grandchild a half-breed?"

Of course that requires a humanocentric vantage point, even if slightly silly. I would be equally intrigued by the sorts of misinformation held by other random races.

gotta love that hilarious level of bigotry.

A fantasy version of blazing saddles comes to mind...

Or the obligatory pastiche in the former of 'Elf Girls are Easy'.

Though the resultant byproduct is a Mikaze-summoning variation on 'Orcs Needs Women'. And that's before the prior-mentioned 'Dwarf Eye for the Human Guy' stemming from 'Three's Company' levels of sitcom-scale obtuse- and silliness.

Sovereign Court

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Quark Blast wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:

It's nearly impossible to have a campaign without sexuality in it, unless no one's married, no one's in love, no one's flirty, no one mentions that anyone's attractive, and no one has kids or parents.

Highschool had a lot of campaigns like that. Players learn early on that connections are only fodder for the DM to use against you to lure you into a deathtrap!

OMG! The longer I lurk about the Paizo threads the more arguments I see that are actually in favor of an Eberron campaign! A couple more years and I'll be starting my own campaign. o_O

Warforged completely bypass this whole problem/issue regarding sexuality.

Of course, you can always bring sex in but, by nature, it is happily absent among the Warforged.

See, I think that you can argue that warforged and also undead minions do possess sexuality, but one that is different from our own. I have argued in the past that the Forsaken from the Warcraft universe (a race of zombies returned sentience) can feel love, but they observe a different kind of love.

Warforged and Forsaken are created as tools; previously, they did not have the autonomy to choose their purpose. In the Warcraft universe, the Forsaken wither away if they see themselves as useless and those Forsaken become mindless zombies once more, shambling around purposelessly. Their sentience "dies", analogous to how species go extinct when their biological traits become obsolete.

Forsaken and Warforged have sets of instructions from the onset, but those instructions are no longer applicable to their new lives. So, they must make choices, in the interest of the survival of their own sanity, analogous to the survival of species. They have to set new priorities. A Forsaken or Warforged is likely to assess his or her relations with other minds by his or her priorities determined over his or her lifetime of liberty. Forsaken and Warforged have the freedom of choice that mindless zombies or machines don't have. Forsaken whom are exposed to a certain constant that he or she wouldn't normally prioritize can decide that this constant is agreeable with him or her, even if it has no objective use to their other priorities.

So, I argue that there is sexuality for Warforged; to wish someone to be a constant in their lives, regardless of their objective use, is a very powerful decision to make. An existential one. A liberating one, in fact. It urges them to please these people or if that is not possible, please them with silence.

It is, at the very least, a form of demisexuality. Pansexuality, even? Platonic love for concepts in general? Panromantic?


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Well stated.


Quark Blast wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:

It's nearly impossible to have a campaign without sexuality in it, unless no one's married, no one's in love, no one's flirty, no one mentions that anyone's attractive, and no one has kids or parents.

Highschool had a lot of campaigns like that. Players learn early on that connections are only fodder for the DM to use against you to lure you into a deathtrap!

OMG! The longer I lurk about the Paizo threads the more arguments I see that are actually in favor of an Eberron campaign! A couple more years and I'll be starting my own campaign. o_O

Warforged completely bypass this whole problem/issue regarding sexuality.

Of course, you can always bring sex in but, by nature, it is happily absent among the Warforged.

Um...that is untrue...at least by what I read....

But what is wrong with having sexuality in your games? I mean it does not have to equal porn. And actually makes the characters relate-able.


I doubt it is possible to exclude sexuality, if you take a broad definition of the word, from roleplaying no matter how hard you try.

I mean even if your RPG had only races w/o gender at all, player characters would still act like men or women in some respects. Perhaps some players, if they tried real hard, would have their characters act genderless all the time. Maybe.

It is so ingrained in the way human beings think and react.

[Recieves prophetic vision where someone posts that gender roles and behavior are fluid not absolute.]

OK, that future post is correct imho. But it does not really contradict what I am saying. A transgender person feels that they are a man born in a woman's body, or vice versa. And want to act and be accepted as their preferred gender.


The problem, for most, I think, is the term "sexuality" - while Jessica Price is entirely correct on (I think) the first page of this thing; the term itself comes weighed down with a lot of baggage and other elements that many people find themselves uncomfortable with.

What does this mean? Those arguing against sexuality in their games and those arguing that it's in there by definition are speaking two different languages, both English, but neither using the same terms.

This stems from a deeply cultural divide that won't simply be patched over by explaining the "true" meaning of sexuality to someone and then saying "See? Sexuality is in your game!" because that's not what sexuality is to the person you're talking to.

Instead of lecturing (which is not a bad thing to do at all, but has already been done, both excellently and thoroughly by Ms. Price), in this case, might I suggest asking what the sum total of ideas including gender, family, etc. is to those that don't include the term "sexuality" as an umbrella to cover all of that?

I mean, I don't have an answer for a better term - maybe there is no singular better term. It is, frankly, a term that doesn't come up unless I'm gaming with mature players... and usually then, extremely rarely. It's... not a common thing. Hence "it doesn't exist in my games" (even though it usually does by the more technically accurate definition).

The fact remains, however, that the term itself has often been used in toxic ways that create baggage. Attempting to force people to accept it... might not work out so well.

So, I guess:
- what, if any, is the catch-all umbrella term that is used to include gender, family, relations, etc.; or do each of these things just fall under different categories?

- what does "sexuality" mean to you?

With these two questions answered (which no one needs to answer, by the way), we can actually discuss whether or not "sexuality" exists in anyone's game. (Because as Ms. Price already explained, based on the more dictionary-correct version, it already does.)

Grand Lodge

Joynt Jezebel wrote:

I doubt it is possible to exclude sexuality, if you take a broad definition of the word, from roleplaying no matter how hard you try.

I mean even if your RPG had only races w/o gender at all, player characters would still act like men or women in some respects. Perhaps some players, if they tried real hard, would have their characters act genderless all the time. Maybe.

It is so ingrained in the way human beings think and react.

[Recieves prophetic vision where someone posts that gender roles and behavior are fluid not absolute.]

OK, that future post is correct imho. But it does not really contradict what I am saying. A transgender person feels that they are a man born in a woman's body, or vice versa. And want to act and be accepted as their preferred gender.

*Hears the sound of a stampede for the first half*

*Reaches prophetic vision part*
*Stampeding noise mysteriously fades away*

I think you called the bluff!


In pathfinder(and real life) most gods of lust or love or Beauty are female. Do you think the pathfinder setting needs or should have a male god of lust, love or Beauty? or other things usually associated with female gods.


Needs? No.

No setting needs a god (gender neutral) of love, lust, or beauty. Especially beauty.

Could use? Maybe. For balance, possibly.

My best recommendation? If you have to have a god of those things make them gender/sex fluid. Shapeshifter if beauty. Those things do not have just one definition. In the past they were assigned because of ideas about which gender couldn't control themselves or some such. Don't do that. Don't assign a sex or gender.


Sacredless wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:

It's nearly impossible to have a campaign without sexuality in it, unless no one's married, no one's in love, no one's flirty, no one mentions that anyone's attractive, and no one has kids or parents.

Highschool had a lot of campaigns like that. Players learn early on that connections are only fodder for the DM to use against you to lure you into a deathtrap!

OMG! The longer I lurk about the Paizo threads the more arguments I see that are actually in favor of an Eberron campaign! A couple more years and I'll be starting my own campaign. o_O

Warforged completely bypass this whole problem/issue regarding sexuality.

Of course, you can always bring sex in but, by nature, it is happily absent among the Warforged.

See, I think that you can argue that warforged and also undead minions do possess sexuality, but one that is different from our own. I have argued in the past that the Forsaken from the Warcraft universe (a race of zombies returned sentience) can feel love, but they observe a different kind of love.

Warforged and Forsaken are created as tools; previously, they did not have the autonomy to choose their purpose. In the Warcraft universe, the Forsaken wither away if they see themselves as useless and those Forsaken become mindless zombies once more, shambling around purposelessly. Their sentience "dies", analogous to how species go extinct when their biological traits become obsolete.

Forsaken and Warforged have sets of instructions from the onset, but those instructions are no longer applicable to their new lives. So, they must make choices, in the interest of the survival of their own sanity, analogous to the survival of species. They have to set new priorities. A Forsaken or Warforged is likely to assess his or her relations with other minds by his or her priorities determined over his or her lifetime of liberty. Forsaken and Warforged have the freedom of choice that mindless zombies or machines don't have. Forsaken whom are exposed to a certain constant that he or she wouldn't normally prioritize can decide that this constant is agreeable with him or her, even if it has no objective use to their other priorities.

So, I argue that there is sexuality for Warforged; to wish someone to be a constant in their lives, regardless of their objective use, is a very powerful decision to make. An existential one. A liberating one, in fact. It urges them to please these people or if that is not possible, please them with silence.

It is, at the very least, a form of demisexuality. Pansexuality, even? Platonic love for concepts in general? Panromantic?

Can't argue with that... o_O

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