so yeah... just murdered a high level wizard


Advice

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Long story short. My party agreed to save a town. I asked the local wizard if I could peruse his spell book. He said no. I'm a selfish NE elven wizard who craves ultimate power to attain lichdom. I didn't take this lightly. We go take care of the town yadda yadda. I gain a level. I'm out for blood. I mirror image, I vanish, I shift into his shop at closing time, I limp lash old wizard and win initiative and limplash rd 2 paralyzes him. I coup de grace Mr 1 str 1 con. Grab his stuff and my party grabs the obviously trapped book and teleports us to some puzzle room thing. We figure it out. I peruse his spell book. Come to find out he's 16th level and has clone. I know he's alive. I know that he can kill me but I'm not gonna just lay down and take it. How's a 5th level wizard defend himself.

Liberty's Edge

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I recommend apologizing and returning the book. If you're lucky he's a CN nut-job who will find it funny, or a bleeding heart who will try to pull you away from the dark side. If not, you're dead anyway.


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Kiiiinda rooting for the old wizard.


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Make friends with something even more powerful. Dragons, demons, or Golems should do the trick nicely. Golems being immune to so much magic is PROBABLY the best choice of the bunch... unless this wizard has a party too.

Otherwise... take your vengeance/murder like a man ;)


A 16th level Wizard will eat a Golem alive. Even an Adamantine Golem is cannon fodder unless significantly altered and augmented.

Making friends with something bigger is a nice option if you can pull it off, but Golems are not that something.

Silver Crusade

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What Stabbitty said. You're pretty well doomed, unless you can make retribution.

Any 16th level Wizard who is that easy to murder is a fool. Perhaps he'll be foolish enough to forgive you, if you give back all his stuff and apologize.


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Hello my name is high level wizard you killed my clone prepare to die.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

And that is why it is generally best not to play evil in campaigns you want your characters to have longevity. At that level, it just would depend if the GM wants the clone as a plot hook. A level 5 really would have no chance against a 16 wizard unless your GM wills it so. With the spell resources available to a lvl 16 wizard, you can't hide (scry) or flee (flying/teleports/planeshifting) and he most likely has stronger friends than your strong friends


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yep, I have to agree with the others; Nothing you can cast will faze him if he's out for blood. On a completely unrelated note (^-^), how creative is your GM?

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You've already taken him down once.

*Top Gear Voice*

How hard can it be?

Sovereign Court

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Shar Tahl wrote:
And that is why it is generally best not to play evil in campaigns you want your characters to have longevity.

At least not stupid psycho evil. Evil characters that actually work within society's rules do fine. (But many players don't know the difference.)

Liberty's Edge

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Shar Tahl wrote:
And that is why it is generally best not to play evil in campaigns you want your characters to have longevity.
At least not stupid psycho evil. Evil characters that actually work within society's rules do fine. (But many players don't know the difference.)

I'm still trying to convince my players to do an all-evil version of Kingmaker sometime. Would totally work as long as no-one went full psycho-evil, as you mention.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gallyck wrote:
Long story short. My party agreed to save a town. I asked the local wizard if I could peruse his spell book. He said no. I'm a selfish NE elven wizard who craves ultimate power to attain lichdom. I didn't take this lightly. We go take care of the town yadda yadda. I gain a level. I'm out for blood. I mirror image, I vanish, I shift into his shop at closing time, I limp lash old wizard and win initiative and limplash rd 2 paralyzes him. I coup de grace Mr 1 str 1 con. Grab his stuff and my party grabs the obviously trapped book and teleports us to some puzzle room thing. We figure it out. I peruse his spell book. Come to find out he's 16th level and has clone. I know he's alive. I know that he can kill me but I'm not gonna just lay down and take it. How's a 5th level wizard defend himself.

This is exactly why Limp Lash is the only spell I actually ban at my table.

Sovereign Court

StabbittyDoom wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Shar Tahl wrote:
And that is why it is generally best not to play evil in campaigns you want your characters to have longevity.
At least not stupid psycho evil. Evil characters that actually work within society's rules do fine. (But many players don't know the difference.)
I'm still trying to convince my players to do an all-evil version of Kingmaker sometime. Would totally work as long as no-one went full psycho-evil, as you mention.

Have them read this as a ballpark for how it should be done - http://darkencomic.com/?webcomic_post=20031216 (The art gets better pretty quickly.)

I would suggest no Chaotic Evil characters - or at most one who is semi-subserviant to the rest of the group. LE especially can do a campaign pretty weel. (My usual rule instead of the common 'no evil' is that LE is allowed, and CN is not.)

Mainly think less Jack the Ripper and more Sith.

The Exchange

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But the spell says he can still cast spells since his head is not paralyzed, so how did he die. Give stuff back and beg for forgiveness cause he be testing you.


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Magda Luckbender wrote:

What Stabbitty said. You're pretty well doomed, unless you can make retribution.

I think you mean 'restitution'? ;)


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You might want to get prepared with say...silence, save up all your gold to buy an item that can create an anti-magic field, and never ever sleep...again.


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A bit more info since I feel am being judged harshly.

I operate well within societal boundaries. I have been part of saving 2 small towns. I offered to pay him for the spells he had and he said I wasn't worthy. My character wants power. As far as him casting spells I walked over and stuffed something in his mouth to gag him. Limplash is a pretty dumb spell. I don't think I went psycho evil.

Finding him is difficult. No clue where his clone is. And tbh I don't think my self sure power crazed elven mage would be keen on giving it back. I planned the murder quite well. I had NO clue that he was 16th level as his stock of scrolls was only up to 2nd level.


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Murdering people who slight you is not within societal boundaries. On the other hand, he was kind of a jerk for no reason.

Still, you deserve whatever you get.


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ShroudedInLight wrote:
You might want to get prepared with say...silence, save up all your gold to buy an item that can create an anti-magic field, and never ever sleep...again.

No dice, a 16th level Wizard would just cast outside of the field and start sending Elder Elementals in your direction.

Unless your GM thinks this could be an interesting plot point long term I would suggest you just make a new character sheet, OP.

As another note: what town with a citizen with 16 wizard class levels has problems that a 5th level party can solve?


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Even if you absolutely HAD to murder him, which was kind of a dickish thing to do, you could have gone about it in ways that avoid your own personal involvement. Hire a thief, have someone else scribe the spells, etc. If you're going to be a dick, be a smart dick.


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DominusMegadeus wrote:

Murdering people who slight you is not within societal boundaries. On the other hand, he was kind of a jerk for no reason.

Still, you deserve whatever you get.

"For no reason"? Asking for a favor (access to a spellbook-- pretty much the lifeblood of a Wizard) without offering fair exchange, and being rebuffed, is being a jerk for no reason?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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You won because you weren't on his radar and got lucky. That's not going to happen again.

Your best shot is to let him kill you, but come back from the dead. Well, you have to go out swinging, because he has to believe you're playing for keeps.

Once you come back (scroll of raise dead by your cleric ally, whatever), start operating under a different name so he has no reason to think you're not dead. Changing your face might also be helpful. Reincarnate is one of the more cost-effective ways to come back from the dead, especially at your level. The new face, fingerprints, and such are a free bonus. On good terms with any druids?

Also, start copying that spellbook now, if you can, because he's going to take it back when you're dead.


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kestral287 wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:

Murdering people who slight you is not within societal boundaries. On the other hand, he was kind of a jerk for no reason.

Still, you deserve whatever you get.

"For no reason"? Asking for a favor (access to a spellbook-- pretty much the lifeblood of a Wizard) without offering fair exchange, and being rebuffed, is being a jerk for no reason?

"I offered to pay him for the spells he had and he said I wasn't worthy."

Saved the town twice (which the 16 LEVEL WIZARD could have but did not) and offered to pay anyway. Then got denied not for a lack of compensation, but for being 'unworthy'. Yes, the old wizard was a jerk for no reason. Still doesn't excuse OP, but I said exactly what I meant.


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Gallyck wrote:

A bit more info since I feel am being judged harshly.

I operate well within societal boundaries. I have been part of saving 2 small towns. I offered to pay him for the spells he had and he said I wasn't worthy. My character wants power. As far as him casting spells I walked over and stuffed something in his mouth to gag him. Limplash is a pretty dumb spell. I don't think I went psycho evil.

Gallyck wrote:
I coup de grace Mr 1 str 1 con.

Does not compute. You broke into his home and murdered in cold blood a clone that you thought was him in person. And then after you realise that he could curb-stomp you at will you go "hey I'm sorry, I'll give you back what I took, no harm no foul?" Um... doesn't quite cut it, I think.

If he was neutral he might still find reason to want to kill you so you don't do that to the real him once you do become more powerful, since you've already displayed a callous willingness to kill and rob him for not sharing his stuff with you. If he was good, he'd have reason to censure you, or see you as an evil-doer that should be snuffed out. If he was evil...well, he'd be thinking whether the price of your soul to a devil would be worth the trouble of trapping your soul as he kills you for the affront.

In any event...he's got plenty reason to wipe the floor with you after what you did.

Grand Lodge

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Beg for forgiveness and tell him you were forced against your will by some other evil npc that cast a geas upon you? That's just a suggestion. In all reality you should probably make another character as a backup.

UNLESS... you roleplayed the lie and made some really good bluff checks. If you failed you would be baleful polymorphed into a slug and then be buried in a barrel of salt.


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He was presumably not letting you see his spellbook because he didn't wany anyone to know he was 16th level. Thus the only low level spells for sale and not solving the town's problems himself.


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With what info I have this is my assessment:

That wizard is in hiding. A level 16 running a shop is either a retired hero(which you should have had a chance to recognize/hear about), an anomaly that makes the existence of your band of "heroes" obsolete, or a person laying low while something with much more power searches for him.

My advice:

Research the wizard, if he is hiding find who or what he is hiding from and point it/them in his direction. Also negotiate with the wizard's enemy for protection for yourself in return for a peek at the spells the wizard has and a chance to jump the wizard when he jumps you.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hey, stuff happens, nobody's exactly blaming you, but you won because you caught them off-guard and they weren't prepared. That almost definitely won't happen twice, so people have suggested getting outside help. There are a lot of fun things the GM can decide to do that we can not counsel you to avoid. It's up to them. I don't know how it is at your table, but in many groups, people are willing to collaborate with the GM out of character, before the game, to figure out what comes next. If you wanted to have the wizard hold it over your head and make you pay it off with some greater service, you could suggest that to the GM, and they may agree.


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DominusMegadeus wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:

Murdering people who slight you is not within societal boundaries. On the other hand, he was kind of a jerk for no reason.

Still, you deserve whatever you get.

"For no reason"? Asking for a favor (access to a spellbook-- pretty much the lifeblood of a Wizard) without offering fair exchange, and being rebuffed, is being a jerk for no reason?

"I offered to pay him for the spells he had and he said I wasn't worthy."

Saved the town twice (which the 16 LEVEL WIZARD could have but did not) and offered to pay anyway. Then got denied not for a lack of compensation, but for being 'unworthy'. Yes, the old wizard was a jerk for no reason. Still doesn't excuse OP, but I said exactly what I meant.

Apparently he subscribes to the "NPC's should know their places and kowtow to the PC's" school of thought.

I'm still at a loss as to how he managed to defeat the lvl 16 wizard in the first place.

Limp Lash specifically allows verbal only spells even while paralyzed, and the wizard would have had at least one action before the coup de grace.

Escape via Teleport, use Power Word: Stun (which would also end the Limplash spell ) and teach the lvl 5 wizard a lesson in manners.

Plus any number of other defenses or countermeasures a lvl 16 wizard would normally have available. (Like an Alarm spell or various other wards around his shop.)

I suspect the GM didn't decide he was lvl 16 until after the fight was over.


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Caliban_ wrote:
I suspect the GM didn't decide he was lvl 16 until after the fight was over.

This is what I'm leaning towards now.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Caliban_ wrote:


I suspect the GM didn't decide he was lvl 16 until after the fight was over.

What I find a little more likely is that the GM had basic ideas for some of the npc's in town, this level 16 guy being one of them, but they hadn't written out their full sheet or spellbook yet. You can come up with an interesting idea for a larger plot, and neglect to make the full char sheets because 'what are the odds this'll be important yet; the party won't be dealing with this guy until next year'.


Sell the spellbook, or dump it, along with anything else you looted from his home. Change your name, use disguising spells that aren't illusions such as polymorphs. Use spells or buy magic items that provide a nondetection effect versus divination magic, scrying, etc.

Move to a new country, or at least another city.


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I just can't imagine a 16th level Wizard being taken out so easily... not unless the GM wanted him to be for some reason. No Contingencies, no minions, no Stilled/Silenced spells prepared... no anything?

Liberty's Edge

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Wiggz wrote:
I just can't imagine a 16th level Wizard being taken out so easily... not unless the GM wanted him to be for some reason. No Contingencies, no minions, no Stilled/Silenced spells prepared... no anything?

Most likely possibilities:

A) Wizard let himself get killed knowing it wasn't really death and the killer would get trapped by their own greed anyway. Keeping their cover as just some old guy was more important than a %#!%-measuring contest.

B) The DM decided it was a lvl 16 afterwards.

C) The DM didn't prepare an actual sheet, but knew he was strong, so he just went with the killing and declared the corpse to be a clone so he could delay that work further.


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Contingency spells mean radiating a lot of really powerful magic. Same with minions, items, etc. If the wizard was hiding out, this all makes sense for maintaining cover. Definitely not good-aligned if willing to let the town be destroyed to maintain that cover though. This is a very odd scenario, but something important to keep in mind is this: the wizard doesn't necessarily know you're ten levels lower, especially since levels are purely mechanical and don't mean anything in-universe.


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On the plus side, the Wizard can hardly show up at the town and smite the PCs without drawing the ire of the townsfolk who would then know that HE COULD HAVE SAVED THEM AND DID NOTHING BUT SMITE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SAVING THEM.


Because I DM myself I didn't wanna ambush the guy and monopolize the session so I told him my plan beforehand to allow prep time. He apparently turned it into a major plot point. I bombed a local check and a history check about the little town. I saved one town over and this one now.

Contingency is not in his book. I think the book was a premade from 3.5 with some of the 3.5 spells swapped with pathfinder spells. I never played much 3.5 so I don't know if the 3.5 spellbooks are as oddly written as the pf premades but that is my guess on spell selection.

Once the wizard was lashed I ran over and stuffed his mouth. He should have been able to cast teleport or something but was calm about his death it seemed. Probably because it wasn't a true death now that I think back on it.

How do I find this wizard if I choose to grovel?

Liberty's Edge

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Gallyck wrote:
How do I find this wizard if I choose to grovel?

You don't. Just make it evident you expect him to find you. Perhaps by placing the book back where you found it with a note in it?

Really, working with your DM on this one is your best bet.


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Actually, PF spellbooks seem to often be intentionally under-powered so as to provide spells the party's wizard is less likely to have chosen and to keep high-level NPC wizards from utterly destroying the party.


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Master why do you memorize a stilled silent colorspray every morning?

Well billy this one time at my shop...


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yup..work with your GM...return the book, and dig your own grave (just to be sure)
And stop being a murderhobo...lol


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I'm just in for the consequences on this one.

Please keep us posted how your character dies.


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Gallyck wrote:
How do I find this wizard if I choose to grovel?

Detect Scrying.


Haha I'll keep this as a running journal of my impending doom. I think I can make it. Will it be because I should make it? No but if its a good story and fun it'll be worth it. I still think I acted completely as my character would.


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No one is saying your character wouldn't act like that. A power hungry evil caster would gank people for spellbooks, why not? We're just saying he deserves whatever your DM does about it.


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Gallyck wrote:
Haha I'll keep this as a running journal of my impending doom. I think I can make it. Will it be because I should make it? No but if its a good story and fun it'll be worth it. I still think I acted completely as my character would.

That, is the only way to go - staying true to your character.

I've played my characters doing moves I know full well could result in death. My last character in Way of the Wicked died a horrible death doing something that only she could do. And I didn't regret it for a second. The players and GM were in stitches. But sometimes it isn't amusing and you wind up doing something, knowing your character will die but also knowing there is no other way to play it without metagaming.

As a GM, I usually give those players a bonus somehow on their new characters to reflect good roleplaying.


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You are screwed. Screwed screwed screwed.

Also there is no society that is not Neutral or Chaotic Evil that you acted within the boundaries of.

Also you are so screwed.

I would assume that since you overreacted a bit, his reaction is going to be somewhat like Mickey's in Snatch. Look forward to a long, painful death scene :D


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As a DM, this happens to me one every 2 campaigns on average. Good luck fighting the wizard. Fight dirty. Fight from a room that he can find, but keep the traps hidden. Set the room to collapse. Use nets and thunderstones - spellcasters hate being deafened. Or get a lion to protect yo' $#!% man.

The reincarnated and research the wizard plans are my vote.

Scarab Sages

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StabbittyDoom wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Shar Tahl wrote:
And that is why it is generally best not to play evil in campaigns you want your characters to have longevity.
At least not stupid psycho evil. Evil characters that actually work within society's rules do fine. (But many players don't know the difference.)
I'm still trying to convince my players to do an all-evil version of Kingmaker sometime. Would totally work as long as no-one went full psycho-evil, as you mention.

I could see a really effective and cohesive all-evil group of Dexter Morgan (investigator/assassin), Walter White(Alchemist), Gaius Balthar(bard), and Magneto(wizard). They are all clearly evil but who are capable of working with others to meet their goals.

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