I could see a really effective and cohesive all-evil group of Dexter Morgan (investigator/assassin), Walter White(Alchemist), Gaius Balthar(bard), and Magneto(wizard). They are all clearly evil but who are capable of working with others to meet their goals.
I love this. No tank though. Throw in Miles Quaritch(fighter) from Avatar on hire as a mercenary.
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Have you considered working towards getting your character an Elixir of Sex Shifting? Might help with the disguise after the reincarnation from a druid.
I could see a really effective and cohesive all-evil group of Dexter Morgan (investigator/assassin), Walter White(Alchemist), Gaius Balthar(bard), and Magneto(wizard). They are all clearly evil but who are capable of working with others to meet their goals.I'm still trying to convince my players to do an all-evil version of Kingmaker sometime. Would totally work as long as no-one went full psycho-evil, as you mention.And that is why it is generally best not to play evil in campaigns you want your characters to have longevity.At least not stupid psycho evil. Evil characters that actually work within society's rules do fine. (But many players don't know the difference.)
Baltar (Remake) is definitely not evil. Misguided, naive, self-interested, but not evil. He just seeks to survive and keep himself over others, no matter the cost. However his many bouts and crises of conscience shows he is more than just a 'muahaha' man who does evil for its own sake; like Brother Cavil.
IMO of course.
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I could see a really effective and cohesive all-evil group of Dexter Morgan (investigator/assassin), Walter White(Alchemist), Gaius Balthar(bard), and Magneto(wizard). They are all clearly evil but who are capable of working with others to meet their goals.I'm still trying to convince my players to do an all-evil version of Kingmaker sometime. Would totally work as long as no-one went full psycho-evil, as you mention.And that is why it is generally best not to play evil in campaigns you want your characters to have longevity.At least not stupid psycho evil. Evil characters that actually work within society's rules do fine. (But many players don't know the difference.)Baltar (Remake) is definitely not evil. Misguided, naive, self-interested, but not evil. He just seeks to survive and keep himself over others, no matter the cost. However his many bouts and crises of conscience shows he is more than just a 'muahaha' man who does evil for its own sake; like Brother Cavil.
IMO of course.
Lawful Evil. Evil for its own sake is a trademark of Neutral Evil characters, whereas Lawful Evil characters are interested in themselves first and foremost and are only evil because they are willing to take any necessary action to promote/preserve their own agenda/life.
Addendum; this spell is ridiculous, it has no duration limit. That's crazy. Surprised I never saw it before, since it would be murder for a fighter-mage type with the right forethought.
Agreed. That spell is out of control at 2nd level.
The thing about the spell is that nearly anyone can just walk out of Limp Lash's area. You need to stack CC to make it stick.
Still a darn good spell ^_^
The thing about the spell is that nearly anyone can just walk out of Limp Lash's area. You need to stack CC to make it stick.
Still a darn good spell ^_^
I do believe this spell can be enlarged? Extending the reach to 40ft. Cast on a slowed target or a tripped target, or a tripped and slowed target.
You could pay a thief to return it, change your identity, dress like a knight and hide. I mean my group had an orc barbarian that killed strand con zervich at lvl 5... we got very lucky... but it went Down in history that he does sweat the lvl five barbarian. Anyway this leads to my advice of be creative out creative the wizard, no amount of magic can beat someone who uses theirs better.
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Frak of a frik, lost my post just before posting sigh. I'm not typing all that out again. I'll just say two things.
One unless the DM wants to avoid a TPK your dead and hopefully next time you wont commit casual murder to obtain something your denied. Desire for power is all well and good but this is meant to be a persistant world and mudering someone out of hand like this is going to get adventurers/assasins hired to hunt you down and kill you depending on whether its done by the local government or the local thieves guild.
Two if I were a 20th level arcanist I'd be palming off every job I could to lower level adventurers its just common sense. If I wind up locked in a magical duel with the lich Abazonse who's going to stop his army of undead rampaging through the local towns if I haven't raised a hardy crop of adventurers? One mythic archmage can do a lot (and probably is kind of distracted by higher level concerns) but the area's chances of surviving general trouble is better if you also have a lot of decently levelled characters running around putting out local fires before they get big enough that you NEED that archmage's help and if that means rather than saving your local town you let them do it (and get the level/s and gear that come with those actions) then you do it unless said problem is actually physically in the towns streets and you don't have time to arrange for someone who'll benefit from it to come in and help.
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Actually, this gives me an idea on how the OP might resolve this. Let the GM turn it into a plot hook. Wizard comes calling, you tell him you're sorry and want to make it up to him, offer to be his servant for a year and do "lesser" tasks for him (i.e. missions & quests that are too menial or mundane or time-consuming for him to waste his time on).
Of course, expect him to always be on his guard against you...
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You're totally screwed, it just depends how the GM wants to do it, or whether he wants to give you some sort of out.
Honestly, there should've been Alarms and a Contingency or two, and some guardians and you should've never gotten close to him. Even if you did, he could've tossed something like Power Word Stun at you.
It seems the DM really didn't expect this to happen, and didn't manage to think of the defensive measures a high level wizard would have, besides retroactively coming up with Clone.
Here's a tip for your next power mad evil wizard who wants to become an immortal lich: patience (or at the very least, do your research).
Every adventuring wizard*: "It could always have more explosive runes."
* (According to certain posters.)
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Actually, seriously find a place you can't be scried under (Preferribly a Lead Lined Room) and just start filling the dude's book with Explosive Runes.
Strip out every spell, all of them, and fill them with Explosive Runes. All 1000 if need be.
Then start getting your Bluff check as high as possible. Get him to take the book back, then even if he kills you he dies.
Just make sure its not a clone or he is going to bind your soul to something really nasty.
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Unless he like, uses magic to detect for tampering.
Though it seems this wizard doesn't care much for his own safety since he's running a clone factory.
Coat the book in lead covers?
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A clever tactic that will surely fool a lvl 16 Wizard :P
Edit: Honestly, I'd suggest you and the DM level with each other. You both messed up, him by allowing it to happen when any number of defensive measures would've stopped you cold. You by, well, doing this. See if this can be retconned.
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Lead Solves Everything!
...
QUICK! Coat your armor in Lead. Forever.
You may die of lead poisoning but you will not be able to be scried!
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I Think it sounds like your GM is on top of things. Go with it and the assumption that he Wind break his own game.
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No one is saying your character wouldn't act like that. A power hungry evil caster would gank people for spellbooks, why not? We're just saying he deserves whatever your DM does about it.
I want to expand on this juuuuuuuuuuuuuust a tad.
I don't have any problem with you, as a player, having pulled this off. Great! Good job!
That said? Your character is evil and murdered a guy just to gain access to his spell-book. If the character bites it, that doesn't actually bother me, just because your character is evil and murdered a guy to gain access to his spell-book. That's it. Not judging the player, but very much so judging the character.
In any event, even if the caster had a back-up body, clone comes with a few disadvantages that need to be offset later.
No, the more I read, the more I'm convinced the wizard allowed this to happen*.
I think that your best bet is to own up to your mistake, and attempt restitution for what you did. Perhaps, say, by crafting things for the wizard, and surreptitiously dropping them off? I dunno how. Research the guy. Learn about what he liked. And feed him that.
The wizard may have been in hiding, or he may have just been retired. Either way, he wasn't a good guy: you 5th level rubes saved his town. He was a 16th level wizard in said town. He obviously didn't care much about "his" town... or he's running a different game altogether.
I think he's watching you to see what you do with it, though perhaps indirectly (or perhaps not). Perhaps the 'test' of proving your worth was, in fact, seeing if you'd murder for it. Perhaps now he's satisfied, and is delighting in setting someone else down an evil path. Perhaps he's watching to see if you become great... "on the backs of giants" so to speak. Perhaps he's allowed you to kill him, acquire his stuff, and then stew nervously in your own evil juices until you vow to use his power for good, just as he'd planned all along.
Either way, bare this in mind: that's not his spellbook. I absolutely guarantee it.
That is one of his backup spellbooks**.
You didn't find a ton of uber-loot on the guy's corpse. 16th level wizard, sans uber-loot? No. No, that back-up spell book had clone in it on purpose. He was letting you know what he could do, and who he is. And, bear in mind, if the highest level spell in the book is 8th level/clone... that doesn't mean that said spell level is the highest he can cast. It just means that's the highest he had in that book.
Incidentally, did you at least loot the place of scrolls when you left? 'Cause if not... heh, whoops.
* The more I'm convinced "as a GM, after the fact" - i.e., I don't know, but I kind of suspect the GM didn't have stats fully ready, but didn't need them, and rolled with things really well, to establish a solid story.
** I don't make a wizard without multiple books.
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A level 16 wizard? Well, he can't use wishes or imprisonment (yet, unless via scrolls, of course), but generally, an 11 level disparity is not something you will manage to deal with. Consider this: He knows where you are, since you have his book. All he needs to do is pop in while invisible and summon a few beasts with Summon Monster VIII when you are sleeping. If he even cares enough about you. Now, the book: he is not going to fall for explosive runes on it. It has been compromised. He has other spellbooks. How you die is merely a matter of how sadistic he is and the quality of his imagination. When depends on how important you are. If, well, if really isn't an issue. And, as was noted: Kiiiiinda rooting for him here as well.
Complete Book of Elves had a neat little story about what revenge can mean, and why rings of regeneration are not your friend.
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The only question is exactly how long a game has this wizard been playing? What if he left his ability scores intentionally damaged knowing you'd do what you did? What if he's really some 30+ across the board powerhouse just setting you up to be yet another pawn in the cosmic game he's been playing with mortals and gods alike in his now immortal existence because he's really m 10/lvl 20? What if, man... what if...? He's the Trickster I tell you. Perhaps, he's even an actual god himself. >.>
If he's 20/10 he may not even need a spellbook hmmmm . . .
Step 1: Create fake magical spellbook that has a concealed curse inflinted on people using it (change sex/race, drain ability, drain level, change alignemnt, creative curse of choice)
Step 2: Create custom simulcrum that doesn't dissolve to snow.
Step 3: Goad some punk mage with delusions of grandeur into killing my simulcrum and stealing said book.
Step 4: Sit back and laugh.
Step 5: Kill mage when they get boring.
Step 6: Repeat to pass the centuries.
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I really like the idea of how long you can evade capture. Even if you change your appearance, scribe the spells and flee, you can't even travel with your same companions.
The extent to which you're stuffed is just hillarious. Talk about trying to go out in a blaze of glory.
Maybe you can beg or grovel for mercy and plead eternal servitude or something? At least there'd be no suprises when he reanimates you as an undead servant.
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I think you should be ready to enjoy the story of how you get your comeuppance. I don't mean that in a nasty way.
The most boring thing the GM could do would be to just have the NPC kill your character. He's got such a great hook to mess with you, he'd be wasting it if he just killed you quickly.
If the GM is any good he's gonna stretch it out. Maybe the wizard will show up to show you who's boss a bit, but not finish you off; and then make it clear that unless you start working him, bad things will happen to you. But if you cooperate, you might learn something.
You might even become his guaranteed-untrustworthy apprentice. Most wizards are paranoid anyway, it can be reassuring to know that your apprentice really does mean to kill you (again); you don't have to wonder if he's a nice guy or just pretending to be nice. It's not paranoia if they're really after you.
Thing is, a good GM can make a game where you get screwed over many times, and like it. As a player of course; your PC may be miserable, but as long as you're enjoying the hilarity, that's fine.
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Is there knowledge that you have that he doesn't? While he can always shoot first and ask questions later (speak with dead), knowledge is power and might save you. Too bad you don't have glibness - lying with +30 is always a good plan. You could convince the town that he is evil and you'd at least be safe from the court of public opinion until someone does proper divination. He might even get run out of town if you are lucky.
Underdark/Darklands is a little harder for him to get you. Go there - that wizard doesn't need to follow you to a place that he would not want to go alone.
Glibness is actually "only" +20 now, I'm afraid. Otherwise, pretty neat.
I know what I'd do if I were that 16th level wizard.
Find said attacker (easy)
Cast Polymorph Any Object. Turn the person into a sheep (which should be permanent)
Find a sheep farm inhabited by very very lonely men.
Profit.
This by far my most popular post so ill explain the story so far and party dynamics. 25 point buy
My characters backstory:
Elven Conjurer who was impatient with his training and got exiled out of school. Hitched on with a traveling circus for a while to travel the world in search of magic power. Working for the traveling circus I did the lightshow and met my fellow adventurers.
A goblin gunslinger who often did a wild west show type deal. Hes my buddy. I joke that he is my familiar (since i selected arcane bond)
A Barbarian Drunken Dwarven Warpriest who worships Cayden Cailean. (We have a rule that within the first 3 sessions you can change anything you want, he wasn't feeling barbarian. He tamed the animals and drank lots of booze.
We started with a druid and he left due to a job change and picked up a GMS best friend, A wild rager. After a couple near party murders it became imperative that i take efforts to control him when he flies off the handle. Hence limplash (hes kinda clumsy) and warpriest took calm emotions.
Anyway first town we come too is suffering from an illness (I think this was a darkmoon vale scenario heavily modified). Circus leader gets sick we go do fetch quests and find a cure. We heal the town (probably village going by settlement rules)
On to the next town. Larger town. 3 huge lakes nearby dried up and the town was starting to suffer a shortage. We agree to explore possible causes. We find a magical sponge that soaked up the water. There were some ogres and owlbears we killed. And by we I mean Wild Rager did and we left the cave til the screams stopped. Came back to town. Rested. Commenced wizard murder. After we killed him I locked the shop up and tried to drag him out of the main room. As we do that someone grabs the spellbook and we all teleport to a stone room with a note that says "If you want my power so much earn it" Commence puzzle room with different liquids and we have to swim through them and empty hatches. Each well appears different to each person and each time we cant decipher what the well does. We stopped the session after we dived into 3 wells and made them appear empty. So we have it figured out we just gotta deal with the random consequences. One well was a well of gender change but the effects appear temporary) One side note since I was attached to the wizard his corpse is in with me and I used it to test some of the liquids. Its pretty much maimed. I through him in an empty well.
So there we are. stuck in his pocket dungeon made for spellbook thieves. I wouldnt be shocked if when we do get out hes waiting with something nasty. But I at least will go out swinging.
On another note. He didnt have much gear on him. Backroom he had his workshop and had a +2 headband. In retrospect i think he didnt wanna give us 16th level loot. He was kinda in a hard place there.
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Here are some of my thoughts after reading most of the first page:
Who says the clone was 16th level? Maybe he was cloned at 3rd level, and left in the shop while the real wizard went out into the world to level up, and just comes back occasionally to update his spell book and make sure everything is okay.
As far as the Wizard being a jerk, yeah sure I risked my life and soul countless times over years of hard work and hard earned money to get everything in that book and earned it with my blood, sweat and tears, but sure I'll let you have it for a few gold pieces, because making you actually earn your power would just make me a jerk o_O It reminds me of everyone thinking the guy asking Americans to eat healthy and exercise so we live longer is a jerk.
I REALLY like the reincarnation idea, but I'm one who loves re-making my characters. It would also give you plot seeds and drive you even more to come back, prove your more powerful now, have there helpless while you casually wipe your bottom with his precious spell book.
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Of course, killing someone just for being a jerk is evil, but his character is evil. It seems that some people think this was particularly evil even for an evil character to do, and I disagree with that. It's exactly what I'd expect an evil character to do, not realizing how high level of a wizard he was killing.
It was Evil Stupid in the same way that the paladins people like to complain about are Lawful Stupid.
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It was Evil Stupid in the same way that the paladins people like to complain about are Lawful Stupid.
I disagree with this. I think it was perfectly in character. A selfish mage who covets power, and he thought he could get away with it. Seemed like a good plan.
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Ide like to reiterate. I had no clue he was 16th level. When i did my walk around town research i bombed some history and local checks. I thought some old wizard who scroll selection was bad. If he was 16 would i have attacked him? No. 10? No? 8? Ide take my chances. But 16? nah i think i would be able to know the general power of a 16th level wizard in game. Or in game terms i would know he is powerful and has a bit of a powerful reputation (despite not leaving the town to help its thirsty citizens)
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1) Drop all of his stuff somewhere. Anywhere is fine as long as it's far far away from you.
2) Get reincarnated.
3) Hope that most laws of divination no longer apply as you are now effectively an entirely different creature. I think that'll fool a lot of divinations.
4) Hope that that high level wizard who was dumb enough to be killed by a 5th level is also dumb enough not to be able to divine/determine what you did to run away.
5) Live the rest of your probably short life in fear.
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If you could know the general power of a wizard just by trivial means, and not seeing him in combat, that wizard isn't doing his job right. If you play MMOs, that's where you get the skull/red/whatever icon that says "Stay away from this one."
On another note. He didnt have much gear on him. Backroom he had his workshop and had a +2 headband. In retrospect i think he didnt wanna give us 16th level loot. He was kinda in a hard place there.
I covered why this might be here and, truth to tell, I'm more convinced than ever that I'm correct. You found chump loot because the clone (and spellbook) were basically expendable for the wizard.
Incidentally, for the record, clone is an 8th level spell that allows a wizard to "get better" when he dies by waking up in his clone body after the one he's currently in dies. He wakes up at two negative levels (trivial to negate at 16th level) sans all gear that was on his previous body.
Simulacrum is a spell that creates a half-level duplicate of the original. With liberal use of Share Memory (after the fact), it's kind of like being there yourself... sort of!
Astral Projection is a spell that allows a wizard to project a fake body onto a new plane (with copies of his loot!), and gets better instantly when he "dies". With any variant of create demiplane and permanency, the wizard can easily gain effective immortality (and limitless wealth).
I mention that because, based on the wording, it kind of sounds like people are treating the wizard that died akin to a simulacra - an active, weaker subservient-body to an independent alternate body currently active elsewhere. And this may well be the case! I just wanted to make sure we all knew what we were talking about, however.