Hey all, wondering if monstrous physique II gives Popobala damage on their 2d6 bite, and 1d8 to claws. this seems ridiculously OP if so...
If i'm wrong please let me know. but i wasnt sure on the rules allowed the pc to gain the ACTUAL damage for the popobola's claws and bite since its a cr15 humanoid monster
The damage dice size is hardly OP as static modifiers is what really matters for damage. The CR of the creature is irrelevant, but do note that when using polymorph effects you only get the abilities specifically granted (this is unrelated to your question as if you polymorph into a creature with natural attacks, you get them), so the PC wouldn't get any of the creature's spell like abilities or special features beyond what is specified in Monstrous Physique 2.
So yes, he DOES gain the creatures attack dice of 2d6 bite, 1d8 claw ??
Yes, the polymorph rules say "you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature", which includes the damage dice of those attacks.
How is this OP, at all? An average of 7 and 4.5 damage is not really that impressive.
The CR 15 probably comes from a lot of other factors that Monstrous Physique II does not grant - like fast healing, Dominate Person and Feeblemind spell-likes, rend, blindsense, frightful presence, DR, immunities, stench, Cha drain, popobala fever, Str 23, etc. etc.
So yes, he DOES gain the creatures attack dice of 2d6 bite, 1d8 claw ??
I don't see why not. You explicitly gain the natural attacks of the creature. The only way I would say you wouldn't get the same damage size would be the creature's damage dice was increased by a specific creature ability that wasn't covered my the polymorph spell used or if it was increased by Improved Natural Attack feat in the creature's stat block; in those two circumstances you would not get the same damage size as 1.) the boost comes from an ability you didn't gain OR 2.) it came from a feat and polymorph spells don't grant you the feats of the creature.
So yeah, he gets the damage dice size as per the creature entry.
ok. Just wondering how my level 8 pc is doing 150 a round with 4 levels in sorcerer (Cross-Blooded) robe of arcane heritage, 1 level of bloodrager, and 3 levels in dragon disciple, with an unbuffed strength of 27.
I CAN just throw willpower saves at him, I'm just not wanting the pc to make all of the other pc's seem useless, which is what it's becoming.
Are you using PF polymorph rules or 3.5e polymorph rules?
ok. Just wondering how my level 8 pc is doing 150 a round with 4 levels in sorcerer (Cross-Blooded) robe of arcane heritage, 1 level of bloodrager, and 3 levels in dragon disciple, with an unbuffed strength of 27.
Here's the thing though: Most of that has very little to do with him getting a 2d6 bite (7 damage average) and two 1d8 claws (4.5 damage average each). All of that damage is coming from other factors, but really I'm curious as to what they are right about now as you described what sounds like a rather non-optimal build. Want to post the sheet if possible? Though the damage dice size may be correct, other things might not be.
It's roll20, how would i go about that hehe ?
I was able to archive it, but not sure if i can just copy it all. lemme try
It's roll20, how would i go about that hehe ?
I was able to archive it, but not sure if i can just copy it all. lemme try
If you can view it maybe just write down his stats, build, and items.
Where is all the static damage coming from? If he's doing 150 damage over 5 attacks, that's 30 per hit. His Str gives him 8, damage dice gives him ~7, where is the other 15 coming from?
Just thinking about it now, how does he even have Monstrous Physique 2, a 4th level spell? Robe of Arcane Heritage doesn't boost spell casting abilities so he only casts as a level 6 sorcerer.
It is monstrous physique I
Where is all the static damage coming from? If he's doing 150 damage over 5 attacks, that's 30 per hit. His Str gives him 8, damage dice gives him ~7, where is the other 15 coming from?
His BAB is only 5, so at most Power Attack can be contributing +4. Maybe a +2 or even +3 AoMF? That's still a pretty big deficit.
The 2 wing attacks are Secondary Attacks btw, which makes them -5 to hit, 1/2 str damage and 1/2 power attack bonuses.
The claws are -5 ? right ?
Full base for bite, -5 claws unless using multi-attack ?
it states under dragon disciple rules that the BITE is primary.
Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Table: Natural Attacks by Size lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature's description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
So im reading, if they have a bite its primary, and if they use only ONE type of natural attack, theyr're ALL primary, but in this case, its bite (1) and claw (2)
No, each type of natural attack is either in the "primary" or "secondary" category as based on the table in the natural attacks section. The kind of exception to that is if the creature only possesses one natural attack, period,(not if it has multiples but only chooses to use one; in that case, the attack is at full BAB and 1.5 strength damage regardless of what it would normally be designated.
If you have bite, claw, claw each is at full BAB and full strength damage as each is in the "primary" category.
Oh, I think I'm starting to get it - he's using his draconic bloodline to add two claws to the popobala routine?
Is he making seven attacks, bite/claw/claw/talon/talon/wing/wing?
No. he's only got 3, bite, claw claw. Just wondering. thanks all.
Where the heck would talon's even be coming from? /confused but honestly curious.
Where the heck would talon's even be coming from? /confused but honestly curious.
Polymorphing to a Popobala brings in the talon and wing attacks.
Where the heck would talon's even be coming from? /confused but honestly curious.
Popobala form accessed by Monstrous Physique as per the original post. The creature has bite, talon, talon, wing, wing, which is actually much more than the what the TC was asking about... using the Sorcerer ability to pop claws on top of that is possible but apparently not what is happening.
The popobala doesn't have separate wings and arms. He can't use the claws while in popobala form. (He can use the talons.) Look at this. It has bat-style wings, where the wings are based on the fingers of the hand with webs of skin between them. There's nowhere for claws to be (The one thumb-claw at the top of the wing isn't enough for an actual attack, especially if you're using the wings as an attack as well).
He gets bite+5/talon+5/talon+5/wing+0/wing+0.
Post the build, OP. You should have all the stats for your PCs. You shouldn't be just relying on a player to say "Oh, my build gets five attacks at +17 each that do 2d6+25 per attack" and not audit the character.
Ahh, i thought they got claws. My bad. huh. That would indeed add up to a lot.
The popobala doesn't have separate wings and arms. He can't use the claws while in popobala form. (He can use the talons.) Look at this. It has bat-style wings, where the wings are based on the fingers of the hand with webs of skin between them. There's nowhere for claws to be (The one thumb-claw at the top of the wing isn't enough for an actual attack, especially if you're using the wings as an attack as well).
I thought about that and then began wondering if the big rules fight about whether popping claws on feet was rules legal or not. No idea if that ever got resolved, but I could see it being feasible.
I believe the 'claws on feet' was addressed in a FAQ.
No. he's only got 3, bite, claw claw. Just wondering. thanks all.
If he's only making 3 attacks, he definitely shouldn't be doing 150 damage/round.
The popobala doesn't have separate wings and arms. He can't use the claws while in popobala form. (He can use the talons.) Look at this. It has bat-style wings, where the wings are based on the fingers of the hand with webs of skin between them. There's nowhere for claws to be (The one thumb-claw at the top of the wing isn't enough for an actual attack, especially if you're using the wings as an attack as well)."
I think you're right actually - I was thinking "grow claws" could include growing limbs on which to use them, but I now believe it actually means "turn your hands into claws". Especially because of this FAQ.