Goblin Squad Member
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I'm looking at a trainer right now, and according to the tooltips, there's absolutely no difference between the level 2 and level 3 versions of my attack spells (cleric). What am I missing? I assume there has to be some reason to train them up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm looking at a trainer right now, and according to the tooltips, there's absolutely no difference between the level 2 and level 3 versions of my attack spells (cleric). What am I missing? I assume there has to be some reason to train them up.
This is going to be a very common question for a very long time.
The answer is all in the Keywords. Rank 2 Feats unlock the second Keyword. If your Weapon also has that Keyword, you get a bonus to Base Damage as well as more Effect Power.
That will make more sense to you before long :)
For right now, just know that your Rank 2 Feat won't be any better unless you have a +1 Weapon that matches the extra Keyword. I believe that, if you're a Fighter or Rogue, you don't really need to worry because most of the Feats are pretty much locked to a single Weapon Type. If you're a Cleric or a Wizard, you'll need to look at the second Keyword on the Feat and make sure the +1 Weapon you have also has that Keyword.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the info! That makes sense. Though I think it'd be a little more obvious if the feats reflected that. For example...
Whatever (1)
Keyword1
Whatever (2)
Keyword1, Keyword2
Whatever (3)
Keyword1, Keyword2, Keyword3
The ranks all showing all keywords (even when they don't actually have them) is rather confusing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The other thing that can be confusing is spells vs cantrips and orisons.
Cantrips and Orisons
Acquired by spending xp at a trainer.
Can be trained to higher ranks by spending more xp at a trainer.
Cost Stamina when used.
Equipped to a wand, staff, or focus.
Spells (and Maneuvers)
Acquired by defeating and looting NPCs, then spending xp to learn them.
Level is built in; cannot be trained to higher ranks.
Cost Stamina and Power when used.
Equipped to a spellbook or holy symbol (or a trophy charm or rogue kit, in the case of maneuvers).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Higher level attacks, including orisons, allow you to activate more keywords- assuming that you have a weapon (focus) which supports the same keywords.
Icicle gains these keywords as it is trained:
R1: Divine
R2: Elemental
R3: Blessed
R4: Masterwork
R5: Planar
R6: Avatar
Similarly, if you have an Elemental Focus, it will gain these keywords:
Divine (+0), Elemental (+1), Blessed (+2), Planar (+3)
...along with inherent keywords Masterwork for T2 recipes and Avatar for T3.
On the other hand, a Battle Focus has these keywords:
Divine (+0), Battle (+1), Blessed (+2), War (+3)
So: If you only have a +0 focus, there's no point in training your attack past R1. But if you have a better focus you need higher training in order to fully take advantage. A rank 3 icicle matches 3 keywords on a +2 elemental focus, and matches 2 keywords on a +2 battle focus.
Each keyword matched adds 5 base damage to your attack, and all attacks have an original base damage of 40. (Total base damage is then scaled using damage factor.) Major keywords (Masterwork and Avatar) count as 4 keywords. So, if you're fully matching your attacks with appropriate level gear, the damage progression goes like this:
T1+0 45 R1
T1+1 50 R2
T1+2 55 R3
T1+3 60 R5
T2+0 65 R4
T2+1 70 R4
T2+2 75 R4
T2+3 80 R5
T3+0 85 R6
T3+1 90 R6
T3+2 95 R6
T3+3 100 R6
Is it accurate to say that it matches up like this:
Weapon +1
Feat level 2
Weapon +2
Feat level 4
Weapon +3
Feat level 6
- in order to have maximum exp usage for weapon damage efficiency?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not necessarily. Different foci have different keywords at different pluses.
See Ryan's Post concerning Battle Foci.
A divine battle focus at +2 would match all three of the first three keywords on "agile feet"
Ahh ok, thank you. I think I was just confusing myself lol. Can't wait for these things to be represented more overtly in the UI.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The other thing that can be confusing is spells vs cantrips and orisons.
Cantrips and Orisons
Acquired by spending xp at a trainer.
Can be trained to higher ranks by spending more xp at a trainer.
Cost Stamina when used.
Equipped to a wand, staff, or focus.Spells (and Maneuvers)
Acquired by defeating and looting NPCs, then spending xp to learn them.
Level is built in; cannot be trained to higher ranks.
Cost Stamina and Power when used.
Equipped to a spellbook or holy symbol (or a trophy charm or rogue kit, in the case of maneuvers).
There is one more important difference:
Cantrips and Orisons
Higher plus wand, staff, or focus gain more keywords and must be used with matching higher rank Cantrip/Orisons for maximum effect.
Spells (and Maneuvers)
Higher plus spellbooks and holy symbols only gain more spellslots. They do not do more damage or allow higher level spells than the base spellbook or symbol can handle. A spell will use a number of slots equal to its level.
To slot a higher level spell you need a better type of spellbook or symbol (not higher plus).
You gain more keyword matches (and hence more damage/effect) to spells by training up and slotting the relevant domain or school that matches the spell.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The other thing that can be confusing is spells vs cantrips and orisons.
Cantrips and Orisons
Acquired by spending xp at a trainer.
Can be trained to higher ranks by spending more xp at a trainer.
Cost Stamina when used.
Equipped to a wand, staff, or focus.Spells (and Maneuvers)
Acquired by defeating and looting NPCs, then spending xp to learn them.
Level is built in; cannot be trained to higher ranks.
Cost Stamina and Power when used.
Equipped to a spellbook or holy symbol (or a trophy charm or rogue kit, in the case of maneuvers).There is one more important difference:
Cantrips and Orisons
Higher plus wand, staff, or focus gain more keywords and must be used with matching higher rank Cantrip/Orisons for maximum effect.Spells (and Maneuvers)
Higher plus spellbooks and holy symbols only gain more spellslots. They do not do more damage or allow higher level spells than the base spellbook or symbol can handle. A spell will use a number of slots equal to its level.
To slot a higher level spell you need a better type of spellbook or symbol (not higher plus).
You gain more keyword matches (and hence more damage/effect) to spells by training up and slotting the relevant domain or school that matches the spell.
Great addition. Thank you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the info! That makes sense. Though I think it'd be a little more obvious if the feats reflected that. For example...
Whatever (1)
Keyword1Whatever (2)
Keyword1, Keyword2Whatever (3)
Keyword1, Keyword2, Keyword3The ranks all showing all keywords (even when they don't actually have them) is rather confusing.
Tons of stuff isn't shown in game yet, but it's shown in the spreadsheets. There are resources that detail what these things do, the in game stuff is just temporary.
How it actually works for attacks:
Level 1 - One minor keyword
Level 2 - Two minor keywords
Level 3 - Three minor keywords
Level 4 - Three minor keywords, one major keyword (this is T2)
Level 5 - Four minor keywords, one major keyword (+3 enchantments)
Level 6 - Four minor keywords, two major keywords (this is T3)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Edam
So Expendables can be made more powerfull by matching more keywords with the slotted Role Feature feat? Does this also mean longer duration?
Unfortunately this does not count for level 1 Spells since these have only a single Keyword. I find almost all expendables that I have found so far, from level 1-3, to be very weak, exept the Healing ones. And maybe Endure Elements(4 rounds). The durations are very short, the effects are rather minimal and you can't decently level them up because they only have 1 or 2 keywords(for level 1 and 2 spells).
A last question: what is Spellcraft for?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the info! That makes sense. Though I think it'd be a little more obvious if the feats reflected that. For example...
Whatever (1)
Keyword1Whatever (2)
Keyword1, Keyword2Whatever (3)
Keyword1, Keyword2, Keyword3The ranks all showing all keywords (even when they don't actually have them) is rather confusing.
This might change when more tech's available. We learned in Alpha that someone took the time to cut and paste the text we see into each individual tooltip, and variability awaits the future.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Edam
So Expendables can be made more powerfull by matching more keywords with the slotted Role Feature feat? Does this also mean longer duration?
Unfortunately this does not count for level 1 Spells since these have only a single Keyword. I find almost all expendables that I have found so far, from level 1-3, to be very weak, exept the Healing ones. And maybe Endure Elements(4 rounds). The durations are very short, the effects are rather minimal and you can't decently level them up because they only have 1 or 2 keywords(for level 1 and 2 spells).
A last question: what is Spellcraft for?
Spellcraft was answered in the other thread.
Yes matching keywords from your role (usually a school for wizard and domain for cleric) to the expendable SHOULD cause more damage and potentially longer duration or more effect. I say SHOULD because its not clear, especially with buff spells, how much of the implement/role keyword system is actually implemented yet.
As Nihimon points out, even level 1 expendable implement spells SHOULD benefit from slotting a matching role feature.