Kingmaker, someone wandered off and was eaten by dogs.


Advice


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So in the KingMaker campaign that I am in, one of the players decided it would be great to not inform the party of where she was going, climb a tree and, Naruto style, use her climb speed and godly acrobats to travel through the trees towards the location of "the tallest tree."

We left her, since we had no idea where she went and had a current objective. She ran into giant centipedes, killed one, was knocked unconscious by the one she defeated, was rescued by kobolds who then abandoned her after getting her out of the forest, then abandoned and finally eaten by dogs that she drew to herself by constantly blowing a signal whistle every 10-minutes.

The current GM feels really bad about it, even though he tried to give her plenty of chances to survive. What should I tell him? So far, it is just how it goes—it is a team-game, if you wander off on your own you are probably going to die. She made bad decisions, and those decisions lead directly to her death as far as I am concerned.

What do you guys think?


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Seems like a great lesson on why it is important for the party to stick together. Experienced players know this; inexperienced players quickly learn this or they die miserable, lonely and, most importantly, avoidable deaths.


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If you go a-wandering on yer own,
Be prepared to not come home.
If in over your head you get,
Don't complain, worry, or fret.
It's all just a game
And tomorrow you'll have new fame.
As your new hero has learnt
Stick with your friends or you'll get burnt.

Grand Lodge

So let me get this straight. You guys were on a mission with clear objectives and specific goal, and then she climbed a tree and started Tarzan'ing about the forest towards the tallest tree?

At which point she was waylaid by enemies, then rescued (captured) by small insane creatures?

Is all that accurate?

The only thing I don't blame her for is using her signal whistle--sounds like that was the only intelligent thing she did.

How far away from your group was she when she was blowing the whistle? A perception check of 20 (almost guaranteed that one person in a party will beat a 20 perception check) and you can hear someone blowing a whistle 5 miles away.

Did she deserve to die? Yeah. But you guys should have probably been able to hear her blowing the whistle, too.

Grand Lodge

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Don't you know...


I think its time to move on and get a new character in there. Opportunities were given.

Grand Lodge

Sounds like this is a case of 'lesson learned'.


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Yeah I wouldn't have done the signal whistle thing, but I probably wouldn't have had the character rescued by kobolds in the first place.

Although it would have been funny if the kobolds had adopted her and turned her into an NPC to come back 3 levels later.


Yeah... I just had one of my players decide to go off on their own in a town that the group knew was dangerous, and now he's been gnabbed and tied up. Sometimes they just have to learn the hard way. This isn't the only time bad things, or even character death have occurred while a character decided to wander off away on their own in a place that they KNEW was dangerous (I'm going to sleep in the woods where we've all ready been attacked by monsters all by myself!). You can only hope that eventually it clicks that doing that is a bad idea, but it can be baffling sometimes how much it takes to click.

Obviously all groups have their own standards for how risky the game overall should be, but, it is only reasonable for decisions like that to have some sort of consequence (and I would either have had dangerous creatures confront the character with the risk of death, or something else befall them too).

The characters may very well have been able to hear the signal as others have mentioned, but, if she was far enough away getting eaten probably would have taken place before any help could arrive anyways.


sounds like a story to tell in the tavern of the multiverse.


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"Don't split the party" is a forced mantra of metagaming but also just a gaming norm so that the GM doesn't have to run two games at once.

Sounds to me like your GM is awesome; didn't railroad the character and straddled the line between rewarding and punishing abnormal character behavior. As long as the rest of the group had fun watching the craziness unfold then I give it a thumbs up.


There is a metagame element sure, that is accurate, but there's reasons beyond that.

I do think it is OK in quite a few places for the party to split up. In nice parts of town, or a typically serene section of forest, and places they are familiar with which are known to typically be safe, unusual circumstances aside, players should feel free to have their characters wander off there with little chance for repercussion. But... strange new places, well, more caution is reasonable. It's the same reason why in RL people will make a point to travel in groups in certain parts of town, or why scuba divers always should have at least one buddy with them.

These things also serve the same purpose as random encounters: if they happen, it serves to illustrate how dangerous or not this particular part of the game world is.


Nothing wrong with splitting up the party, everything wrong with running off by oneself and not telling anyone anything about where you might be or what you might be doing.


I guess if everyone really wants to bring that character back, you could play it off as a dream. Like they had a nightmare induced by Centipede venom about being eaten by dogs after they ran off alone.

Grand Lodge

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Farastu wrote:
The characters may very well have been able to hear the signal as others have mentioned, but, if she was far enough away getting eaten probably would have taken place before any help could arrive anyways.
Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
...by constantly blowing a signal whistle every 10-minutes.

"Constantly" implies multiple times. So she obviously blew it at least three times. So that's thirty minutes. PCs with a standard move of 30' can go 6 miles in an hour if they hustle. I'm assuming she blew the whistle more than three times so the PCs should have been able to catch up with her.

So if they'd been walking in opposite directions an hour they'd be 6 miles apart with a perception DC to hear the whistle of 24. Now obviously I don't know the circumstances but it just seems to me if she's walking in circles in the forest blowing the whistle at constant intervals, one of them would have made the check as most PCs seem to max Perception.


You just have to let her learn from her mistakes.

This happened twice with players I DMed for, in the same game and instance. The ranger got in an IC argument with another PC while they were camping during the day, and decided to go off on a walk to clear his head. Similarly, he Tarzan'd around, but since he was a Raptoran it was more like gliding from tree to tree. The PC he got in an argument with, a rogue, decided to follow him so he could play some prank on him in the woods or get back at him for something he said in the argument.

The Ranger outpaced the rogue, ended up getting into a random encounter at level 1 with a Wyrmling white dragon that killed him and ate him like a chicken dinner. The rogue, who at this point had lost sight of the ranger, got lost as he had no survival ranks, and failed consistently on checks to make it back to the party. He just got more and more lost, and with no food, water or survival skills there was no way he was ever going to make it back or even be found as the remaining party members also had no survival skills.

Yeah, don't just wander off into the woods.


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logan grayble wrote:
I guess if everyone really wants to bring that character back, you could play it off as a dream. Like they had a nightmare induced by Centipede venom about being eaten by dogs after they ran off alone.

Ugh, no! The "it was just a dream" is the worst storytelling mechanism invented after the Deus Ex Machina. It implies that everything prior was a waste of time and storytelling. In this specific instance it lets the doofus who ran off on their own in a dangerous location without telling anyone realize there is no consequence for foolish actions.

Do something stupid, get stupid results.


claudekennilol wrote:

"Constantly" implies multiple times. So she obviously blew it at least three times. So that's thirty minutes. PCs with a standard move of 30' can go 6 miles in an hour if they hustle. I'm assuming she blew the whistle more than three times so the PCs should have been able to catch up with her.

So if they'd been walking in opposite directions an hour they'd be 6 miles apart with a perception DC to hear the whistle of 24. Now obviously I don't know the circumstances but it just seems to me if she's walking in circles in the forest blowing the whistle at constant intervals, one of them would have made the check as most PCs seem to max Perception.

Even if the PCs heard a whistle it probably wouldn't mean much unless they had a plan that "whistle = I'm screwed! Help!"

PC1: "Hey did you guys hear a whistle just now way off in the distance?"

PC2: "Yeah, but who cares? We have a time table to keep and can't afford to go chasing random noises way off in the forest. It will have to be a mystery for another day."

PC3: "Where'd that annoying tree climber run off to anyway?"

Grand Lodge

chaoseffect wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:

"Constantly" implies multiple times. So she obviously blew it at least three times. So that's thirty minutes. PCs with a standard move of 30' can go 6 miles in an hour if they hustle. I'm assuming she blew the whistle more than three times so the PCs should have been able to catch up with her.

So if they'd been walking in opposite directions an hour they'd be 6 miles apart with a perception DC to hear the whistle of 24. Now obviously I don't know the circumstances but it just seems to me if she's walking in circles in the forest blowing the whistle at constant intervals, one of them would have made the check as most PCs seem to max Perception.

Even if the PCs heard a whistle it probably wouldn't mean much unless they had a plan that "whistle = I'm screwed! Help!"

PC1: "Hey did you guys hear a whistle just now way off in the distance?"

PC2: "Yeah, but who cares? We have a time table to keep and can't afford to go chasing random noises way off in the forest. It will have to be a mystery for another day."

PC3: "Where'd that annoying tree climber run off to anyway?"

PC4: "Hey, didn't she have a whistle with her that's for blowing when in trouble?"

Don't get me wrong, obviously she deserved what she got (as I already said above), but the signal whistle (used for signaling) is a powerful tool when used appropriately that it looks like every PC in the party plus the DM overlooked.

Silver Crusade

Sometimes players get accustomed to a GM who refuses to kill PCs. The players learn they can do all kinds of outlandish stupid stuff, and their GM just won't kill them off. Then they play with another GM who has no such scruples ...

Novices will learn, but once players have been trained that they can get away with reckless, foolish behavior they are not likely to cease. I know some players like this. The only way to teach them that they are not invulnerable is to permanently kill off a few characters. Of course, only allow this when they are both stupid and unlucky.

I've personally grown a bit frustrated with the "100% aggression with no thought to tactics" play style that is common. A big part of this stupidity comes from GMs being unwilling to kill off PCs. I often see players who use atrocious tactics and do moronic things, because they figure they can get away with it without consequence. Often they do, because many GMs don't want to kill off characters, even when the characters behave like utter idiots and have it coming to them. Glad to see the OP's GM killed off that idiot.

Example of Moronic Behavior I'd like to see punished with DEATH:

PCs are in a tight group which includes several reach fighters and with area-effect defensive magic in place. Party encounters some ghasts, along with a flying boss foe. It's obvious foes have only melee attacks, no spells or missile weapons.

Smart tactics: Wait in the defensive clump. Concentrate on the boss to bring it down fast. Ignore the ghasts, as they must spend a round even getting to the party. When the ghasts eventually arrive each will draw multiple AoOs coming in. In other words, if the PCs totally ignore the ghasts it's very likely all the ghasts will be passively destroyed by AoOs when they finally approach. This would allow the party to focus-fire on the boss, yet kill all the minions passively. Party would probably have won easily and taken zero damage.

Moronic tactics that should be punished with DEATH: One martial PC breaks ranks and rushes the ghasts, ending his turn adjacent to several. Ghasts 5' step to flank him then deliver multiple full attacks. The other ghasts swarm him, which had the side effect of denying all the AoOs they would have otherwise provoked. PC got hit several times and had to make multiple saving throws. I was sooo hoping he'd fail a save and that the ghasts would coup de gras him!!!!!! When he broke ranks and got surrounded another martial PC also broke ranks, to try to save him. Meanwhile the boss moved in on the no-longer-protected second rank and started attacking the squishies. My squishy caster took a lot of ability damage and nearly died. I was very disappointed when the martial moron got lucky & made all his saves. I badly wanted that idiot to suffer fatal consequences for recklessly endangering himself and his allies. Unfortunately it didn't happen, so the moron learned nothing.

The party would have been much more effective in this battle if the idiot PC had been absent. Despite being a martial who inflicted some damage, his net contribution to the battle was negative. What an idiot! Wish he'd died.

Absent the social convention of 'he's a PC so we're allies and I have to work with him', my PC would never again willingly associate with that idiot, and would also write up his moronic behavior in detail in an after-action report. My PC, who was neutral with good tendencies, seriously considered murdering the loose cannon idiot in his sleep, to protect the rest of the party from his reckless behavior.

That's the same sort of idiotic super-aggressive behavior that got a lot of 2nd Lieutenants 'fragged' by their own side in the Viet Nam war.


thegreenteagamer wrote:
logan grayble wrote:
I guess if everyone really wants to bring that character back, you could play it off as a dream. Like they had a nightmare induced by Centipede venom about being eaten by dogs after they ran off alone.

Ugh, no! The "it was just a dream" is the worst storytelling mechanism invented after the Deus Ex Machina. It implies that everything prior was a waste of time and storytelling. In this specific instance it lets the doofus who ran off on their own in a dangerous location without telling anyone realize there is no consequence for foolish actions.

Do something stupid, get stupid results.

I don't particularly like it either, but he said the DM feels bad about the character dying so I didn't know if that meant they WANTED an excuse to bring back this character.

Silver Crusade

The GM should feel GOOD about killing off that idiot. Definitely make them generate a new character, as the last one was eaten by dogs. Hopefully the player learned a lesson.


This becomes a common issue with independent play. At higher levels or in an a party that has established lines of communication, solo scouting or recon is not as much of an issue, but if one PC goes off alone without anyone recognizing they are gone, then that PC better be set to deal with the consequences of being alone. It's hard to get a group to coordinate things, but they will learn. As for GMs not wanting to kill PCs, it happens. I had 23 dead PCs and one reincarnated 5 times due to either combat or stupid shenaningans that other players generated in a Kingmaker game. Eventually they will learn, or much like the dodo, natural selection will eliminate them from the gaming table.


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Magda Luckbender wrote:
The GM should feel GOOD about killing off that idiot. Definitely make them generate a new character, as the last one was eaten by dogs. Hopefully the player learned a lesson.

I suppose it's a good lesson to teach to a person who'd treating the game as their own personal "I'm the coolest guy in the world" anime story, but if this is a fairly new player, I can understand feeling bad for their first character dying. Or maybe the DM just has a crush on the player and feels bad for killing them.

I'm just saying I can understand wanting to make excuses "resurect" a character as long as it's not to egregious and no one expects it to happen EVERY time.


Magda Luckbender wrote:
The GM should feel GOOD about killing off that idiot. Definitely make them generate a new character, as the last one was eaten by dogs. Hopefully the player learned a lesson.

after reading several of your other posts ovver time i must say i havent seen you be quite so vicious before, bad experiences?

Grand Lodge

Going to side with Magda on this one. Let the character stay dead, or have their undead body produced from a pile of dog droppings, and let it be a lesson for the player that Golarion is a dangerous place to be stuck alone in.

Silver Crusade

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Hazrond wrote:
after reading several of your other posts ovver time i must say i havent seen you be quite so vicious before, bad experiences?

Correct. Repeated recent bad experiences caused by idiotic players who endangered the rest of the team and GMs who did not kill them off. Wandering off alone while the team is on a mission is an example of idiotic behavior that endangers the team. So is breaking formation and rushing the enemy alone when it's a bad idea to do so. If this is due to actual good roleplaying (i.e. my character would do that) then I'm fine with it, and it's my bad luck if the Venture Captain saddles my team with such an incompetent loose cannon loser. Perhaps that's why PFS bans fragging ... err, PVP :-) Usually, though, it's a gloryhound player who feels entitled to survive and triumph because I'm so cool, or just doesn't know any better and does not care to learn.

I'm probably frustrated playing too much 'easy mode' where that kind of nonsense won't get you killed. I long for some 'hard mode' play where stupid behavior gets one killed, so the &^*&%&^ idiotic loose cannons die and are gone from the table.

New players, of course, get several free passes while they learn the game. :-)


dont be a spotlight ranger..stick with your group, and be a team player...or get eaten by dogs.

Good lesson from the GM.

I approve.


I feel kinda bad when I make a stealthy character and do my own thing when the party agrees that I should do it because it can take awhile and the other characters just sit while I'm in the spotlight. There are exceptions of course and we try to speed things up- but to have someone on their own pull a stunt like that and waste game/real life time? That alone would create a scene with our group.


In my current Kingdom maker campaign we have a spymistress we call "Dangergirl" and we love to indulge her in solo..or semi solo missions, but they are planned..not just someone wanting to go off and have a little solo game on a whim.

when well done these recon/stealth missions are actually fun for the participant and the observers..also the team waiting in the "Van" can be ready as a rescue team if needed.

the OP's example is just reckless behavior and needs to be dealt with in a realistic manner..and the GM I think did well on it.


claudekennilol wrote:

So let me get this straight. You guys were on a mission with clear objectives and specific goal, and then she climbed a tree and started Tarzan'ing about the forest towards the tallest tree?

At which point she was waylaid by enemies, then rescued (captured) by small insane creatures?

Is all that accurate?

The only thing I don't blame her for is using her signal whistle--sounds like that was the only intelligent thing she did.

How far away from your group was she when she was blowing the whistle? A perception check of 20 (almost guaranteed that one person in a party will beat a 20 perception check) and you can hear someone blowing a whistle 5 miles away.

Did she deserve to die? Yeah. But you guys should have probably been able to hear her blowing the whistle, too.

We were over 12 miles away in a different hex.


I find the story of dogs investigating a whistle and eating the PC kind of odd. I guess it is the centipedes which really matter though. Did the centipedes show up due to a random roll for wandering monsters made with the same frequency that such rolls are usually made? If so I guess the dice decided the PCs fate. On the other hand, if the DM simply decided that it would be fun or teach the player a lesson to have giant centipedes show up maybe that's why the DM feels bad.

I'm still a fan of Hero Points, which would have let the DM kill the PC and keep her around too. Spending a couple of points and almost losing the PC permanently might make the player more careful in the future without the DM feeling bad (plus you'd get to have a PC with some links to a local kobold tribe). Sure, Hero Points might save you from some unlucky deaths, but when you run out of points and finally die for real it is also a bigger event.

@Magda - Fools rushing in seems to be pretty much the standard style of play in many groups. I've seen folks low on hit points get killed or nearly killed charging powerful monsters they knew would get an AoO just to try to "kill steal" from other PCs who had the fight well in hand. Then we had to expend magic items, spells, or other resources to heal up the "daring" PC, sometimes depleting my cautious PC's emergency supplies (like a scroll of Last Breath, for instance). A lot of people seem to prefer the "Hah! Kill me if you can!" style of play and view high AC and tactical combat with a mix of boredom and disdain.

Dark Archive

This thread titile made me laugh!

I guess Sasha from the WAlking dead was nit there to shoot them down like she dud 2 episodes ago.when a pack.of wild dogs.came.up on all the other survivers while they were all prone.

The player and.character both got what they deserved for going off without even telling the othes what the plan was.


I have no sympathy for your player if s/he I is not new.

Eaten by dogs in the woods. Reminds me of the darned wolves in Stick of Truth.


Hm.

While I maintain there's everything wrong with a PC running off by themselves, some of the vitriol in later posts makes me a bit curious as to the situation from the other side of the lens. I'd like to hear the other persons version of events.

Grand Lodge

Well seeing as this happened over a month ago I doubt you're going to get any other fresh perspective on it.


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On further reflection, I feel I should reiterate more strongly that the dogs were not the best call.

Sequence of events was:
-Player does something stupid.
-player gets defeated (killed, really) by centipedes, somehow not eaten by them (I assume succumbed to poison post-battle?)
-Player is RESCUED by Kobolds. Should have had them just eat her, much more logical and much more straightforward than what happened next.
-Player does the RIGHT thing (uses a signal whistle as advertised, tries to find and rejoin the party).
-Player is eaten by dogs, basically for doing the right thing.

I mean really, it comes off a bit needlessly cruel where you create false hope and then dash it. If this was a "teachable moment" or a learning experience, that little hiccup in between undermines the lesson.

I understand it is more complicated than that, but I imagine if I were the type to make that kind of (dumb) decision I would be less likely to learn "don't split the party."


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I am a special snnnowwwwwwflake, wheeeeeeee
*melts*


Freehold DM wrote:

Hm.

While I maintain there's everything wrong with a PC running off by themselves, some of the vitriol in later posts makes me a bit curious as to the situation from the other side of the lens. I'd like to hear the other persons version of events.

The party had found a treasure map in the sole of a bandit's boot. She took off to find said tree in an area the size of Maine (The approx size of the Stolen Lands) without having any clear direction.

She found a very large tree and approached it. She saw 1 centipede, but didn't see the second one that sneaked up on her. Combat initiated. She took some dexterity damage as she tried to dash away from it on tree branches Naruto style. Thing is: centipedes also have good acrobatics. The centipede was able to catch up with her each round as she willingly took AOOs to try and jump away. Eventually she took our advice and fought it. She became staggered, then killing blowed the centipede before falling 30 ft out of the tree and surviving then stabilizing.

Kobolds that my Druid had made it a point to befriend, mainly since they didn't just attack us and we are planning on building a kingdom at some point so allied kobolds could be useful friends, found her and recognized her as one of the Druid's friends. They gave her a magic healing turnip. She traveled with them out of the forest. The kobolds saw bandits, and asked her if she thought they could take them. She said, "yes."

They attack the bandits. One of the kobolds dies, she gets knocked back into negatives. The kobolds hide her unconscious body, leave her a turnip for if she wakes up, and they abandon her since she is somewhat heavy for them to carry around and they are down to two kobolds.

She wakes up alone, eats her turnip and begins to head in the direction she thinks Oleg's Trading Post is (Those who don't know, this is the 1st book's central Hub town. You learn this in the first 5 minutes of the adventure) while blowing a whistle. However, the blowing of this whistle sounded like ringing a dinner bell to the GM, which is agreed with by the other people on the forum
(Blowing a signal whistle when you know someone you want to hear it can hear it is a good thing. They stop, turn around and investigate. However, just glowing a whistle in an area filled with creatures that would love to rip out your throat isn't the best idea as such sound could attract predators.)

The GM admitted that he rolled a random monster check for her for the day, and then rolled four different times after rolling a random monster encounter for her. Three rolls landed on monsters that either moved faster than she did or would never tire from full running after her. So, the dogs she finally got had a move speed equal to her's. The GM did a chase encounter, and while she could have gotten away the dice were not in her favor.

In combat her dexterity had not fully healed—she took a lot of dexterity damage from eating centipede AOOs and failing poison saves—so she was already heavily disadvantaged in the fight. The dogs, half of the encounter did not notice and chase her, did enough damage to bring her down. Then, unconscious and alone she was made into their lunch.

Later the party came across a trail that my druid, with his incredible survival skill, figured looked like a humanoid running from quadrupeds. We came across her body being eaten. The druid used speak with animals to talk to the dogs, but failed to convince them to surrender the body. He understood that in terms of the ecosystem the dogs didn't do anything wrong: they are doing what predators do, and therefore let them finish their meal. The other PCs could do as they wished, if they wanted to attack the dogs, but he would abstain. The other PCs did not jump in. The dogs finished their glut and left.

We dug a grave, burried the rogue's remains and all of her gear therein, said prayers to Desna and the other gods the PCs worshiped, covered the grave, marked it with her name and decided to build a city or glade there called "Rogue's End."

Her new character is a Slayer, and so far she hasn't split off from the party. So, lesson learned.

We came up with an idea where Pharasma allowed her to be reborn as a new character. She was raised in a demiplane that had highly accelerated time by a Wizard school that we might do a tie-in with at some point. This compression of time allowed her to be born, reach adulthood and be trained as a slayer over night by this wizard. Then, in the morning as we awoke from sleeping at Rogue's End, we saw a Gnomish Wizard with a new character looking at a grave. As my Druid approached the Wizard clicked his staff on the ground and vanished.

I think she had to learn the hard way that the Stolen Lands and Pathfinder's environment is just dangerous in general. No one was going to come and save her, no Giant Tolkien Eagles were going to come to her rescue if she got in trouble. No Deus Ex Machina to protect her from her own poor decisions, but instead the world is more than happy to strike her down and feast upon her remains. It is a bit cynical, but the best stories are those that take a cynical setting and eke out a little piece of idealized paradise in face of the setting.

It reminds me of when my group of Shadowrunners managed to create a magical lodge that more or less used healing spells on people for free if they were not affiliated with gangers or anyone who opposed us. Reminds me of when the Lone Star raid that tried to close it down was ambushed by civvies with sniper rifles who really wanted the magical lodge to stay right were it was.


As you said, lesson learned, so clearly dying alone eaten by dogs was the right call.


If you ever go out scouting on your own for the party, have a contingency plan and let your party know what you're doing. Let them know how far you plan on going and let them know how you'll signal them if you need help. Also, carry around a potion of invisibility or the like.

I won't say the player "deserved" this fate, but they definitely shouldn't have made the mistakes they did. It's their own fault that they died. They should roll up a new character, and if they want to do something like this again, they need to play differently.

I remember how one of my characters died while splitting from the party. I was playing a low WIS gnome fighter/alchemist that was REALLY used to being the decision maker. When the party made a decision she didn't agree with (she wanted to take a shortcut through the forest "because it's more fun that way" rather than follow the road), she became irate and marched off into the woods alone. She was promptly eaten by a Great Wyrm Copper Dragon that was insane or something.

Did I predict THAT random encounter? No. Was I upset? No. I behaved as my character would with her low wisdom and my character died for it. It's also a hilarious story to talk about, and it's a good story to tell players new to the game because you can then accentuate their need to at least prepare accordingly if they plan on prancing off into the woods alone.

Grand Lodge

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Why was she "eating AOOs" when withdrawing?

Silver Crusade

claudekennilol wrote:
Why was she "eating AOOs" when withdrawing?

Please translate that as "being hit by multiple Attacks of Opportunity while attempting to flee".

Shadow Lodge

Possibly because the rogue was still Tarzanning it up, which of all movement modes is most similar to climb, and:

Withdraw Rules wrote:
You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which you don't have a listed speed.

Why the rogue didn't leave the trees at that point, I don't know.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Lol! The OP said Naruto!

Totally deserves to be eaten by dogs like Conan's father!

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