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If you mean Fleshcrafting Poisons from Endless Night those are 3.5 rules.Pun-Pun required infinite stats for infinite DCs, sight range, etc. The self granting abilities were just a way to achieve that.Thus the "not quite"
Fleshcrafting provides a loophole to make characters immune to just about everything + tarasque regeneration.
They are Pathfinder rules.
Again, the Wizards Simulacrums can do this to. And there will always be more of them. So... I'm not sure what your point is here?
No they can't.
I am talking about using mythic tier abilities, which your level 1 snowcone wizard couldn't do.
Your just not reading anymore. It is kind of ridiculous.
They are Paizo rules for D&D 3.5, not the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
Again, the Wizards Simulacrums can do this to. And there will always be more of them. So... I'm not sure what your point is here?No they can't.
I am talking about using mythic tier abilities, which your level 1 snowcone wizard couldn't do.
Your just not reading anymore. It is kind of ridiculous.
My Solar Simulacrums absolutely can.
They are Paizo rules for D&D 3.5, not the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.They are from a published Pathfinder AP.
Are you stating that material from AP's is not always available to players?
I'm talking about Pathfinder rules, not 3.5 rules. Feel free to use things from APs made with Pathfinder rules. Or we can change to 3.5 Rules. That will go much worse for the Fighter though once I have some properly powerful PRCs to work with.
My Solar Simulacrums absolutely can.Again, the Wizards Simulacrums can do this to. And there will always be more of them. So... I'm not sure what your point is here?No they can't.
I am talking about using mythic tier abilities, which your level 1 snowcone wizard couldn't do.
Your just not reading anymore. It is kind of ridiculous.
That is not RAW because you require a GM to make half racial HD monsters.
You can make half class level creatures reliably (since all the rules for that are explicit). Half racial HD requires a GM to make a monster. There is no guarantee that the solar will have that wish SLA.
My Solar Simulacrums absolutely can.Again, the Wizards Simulacrums can do this to. And there will always be more of them. So... I'm not sure what your point is here?No they can't.
I am talking about using mythic tier abilities, which your level 1 snowcone wizard couldn't do.
Your just not reading anymore. It is kind of ridiculous.
That is not RAW because you require a GM to make half racial HD monsters.
You can make half class level creatures reliably (since all the rules for that are explicit). Half racial HD requires a GM to make a monster. There is no guarantee that the solar will have that wish SLA.
You don't need a GM to determine what abilities a Half-HD Solar has. Wish is not dependent on HD. Therefore, a Half HD Solar will have it. Sorry but I don't need a GM to use this.
Wish is not dependent on HD.
I'll need a rules citation because:
"Additional Hit Dice usually results in better attack bonuses, saves, hit points, and skills, as well as more feats. It can also include additional spellcasting capability and other powers."
The precedent exist that all abilities (aside from those that come from type) are tied to the HD of the creature.
A solar is a "outsider (angel, extraplanar, good)" none of those grant a wish SLA.
Sure it does. All Solars can use Wish as a SLA. It's not HD dependent. Very few abilities are.
Man, this discussion has lost every tiny bit of fun it had.
It has convinced me that casting has some serious problems. It seems the system was not designed with all the other subsystems kept in mind.
Instead of high level casting being powerful, it is instead completely reliant on exploits. And those are not unintentional because most high level foes have super SR, ridiculous saves, and host of immunities. You are expected as a caster to actively try to break things. (DSP psionics is comparatively more tame without being weaker).
Sure it does. All Solars can use Wish as a SLA. It's not HD dependent. Very few abilities are.
Citation.
You have proved nothing, leaving the default option that the ability is tied to the HD.
Because there is a rule saying abilities like that are tied to HD. You have yet to cite a rule showing that that ability is not tied to HD.
Sure it does. All Solars can use Wish as a SLA. It's not HD dependent. Very few abilities are.Citation.
You have proved nothing, leaving the default option that the ability is tied to the HD.
Because there is a rule saying abilities like that are tied to HD. You have yet to cite a rule showing that that ability is not tied to HD.
It doesn't say it is tied to HD. Therefore it isn't. I don't have to cite a rule that says it's not tied to HD. You have to cite one that says that it is.
It doesn't say it is tied to HD. Therefore it isn't. I don't have to cite a rule that says it's not tied to HD. You have to cite one that says that it is.
I already did. Spellcasting and other powers are tied to HD.
The solar does not have an HD-less race entry, so no rules say that powers are intrinsic to the solar race alone. The solar's creature types do not give a wish SLA.
Cite rules showing that the SLA is an exception to the general rule.
It doesn't say it is tied to HD. Therefore it isn't. I don't have to cite a rule that says it's not tied to HD. You have to cite one that says that it is.I already did. Spellcasting and other powers are tied to HD.
The solar does not have an HD-less race entry, so no rules say that powers are intrinsic to the solar race alone. The solar's creature types do not give a wish SLA.
Cite rules showing that the SLA is an exception to the general rule.
That's Spellcasting. SLA's are not spellcasting. Please cite where the Solar's SLA's are tied to HD. I'll wait.
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Honestly, simulacrum should be taken off the table for anything with racial hit dice because it's almost unplayable. The spell says the simulacrum has "the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD" - but what is "appropriate" is completely undefined where special abilities are concerned. Is it "appropriate" for an 11HD creature to have wish as a spell-like ability, especially one for which the ability is not a defining characteristic? Frankly, it's something about which reasonable people can disagree, the rules themselves are utterly silent, and whichever way your GM rules determines outcomes for discussions like this as a matter of rules fiat and nothing more.
Are there any creatures who have SLA caster level above their HD? I don't have a horse in this race, but if I were trying to argue that's where I'd start. Special Abilities appropriate to HD might cap inherent CL to HD.
Edit: Glabrezu. Never mind. Edit 2: apparently also Efreeti, among others.
Are there any creatures who have SLA caster level above their HD? I don't have a horse in this race, but if I were trying to argue that's where I'd start. Special Abilities appropriate to HD might cap inherent CL to HD.
Tons. Efreets have 10 HD and Wish as a SLA 3/times a day.
Edit @ Shisumo: The rules are not silent. Having Half-HD effects a lot of things. BAB, Saves, Skills, HP, etc. Just not SLAs (unless they say so).
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Are there any creatures who have SLA caster level above their HD? I don't have a horse in this race, but if I were trying to argue that's where I'd start. Special Abilities appropriate to HD might cap inherent CL to HD.
There's a few. The most relevant example would be the efreeti, which is 10HD, CL 11th and has a wish SLA. So it's possible. But that's not what the spell says - it says "appropriate," and that's a whole other can of subjective worms.
Edit @ Shisumo: The rules are not silent. Having Half-HD effects a lot of things. BAB, Saves, Skills, HP, etc. Just not SLAs (unless they say so).Sorry, they really are. Because "appropriate" is not defined in the rules. It's inherently a GM call and useless for this kind of discussion.
It's not a GM call. Wish 3/day at CL 11 is appropriate for a 5 HD Efreet. In the same way that Wish 3/day at CL 11 is appropriate for a Advanced Efreet Fighter.
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It's not a GM call. Wish 3/day at CL 11 is appropriate for a 5 HD Efreet. In the same way that Wish 3/day at CL 11 is appropriate for a Advanced Efreet Fighter.Edit @ Shisumo: The rules are not silent. Having Half-HD effects a lot of things. BAB, Saves, Skills, HP, etc. Just not SLAs (unless they say so).Sorry, they really are. Because "appropriate" is not defined in the rules. It's inherently a GM call and useless for this kind of discussion.
That's your opinion and nothing more. The rules don't define it. Sorry.
It's more that there is no rules definition for what appropriate means. Without guidance, any statement that is not directly written in the rules is subject to GM interference.
A player may define anything to be reasonable/appropriate as long as it is not expressly forbidden in the rules (still, subject to a modicum of sense - I'm looking at you, actions after dead condition)
Edit: Might a GM nerf t? Yes. Most might. However, in this discussion, as hyper-reliant on rules as it is, a GM ruling in one way or another *is* a house rule, no matter how reasonable the added rule might be. (Curse the incredible turn around time in this thread. I made this edit < 5 mins after posting!)
It's more that there is no rules definition for what appropriate means. Without guidance, any statement that is not directly written in the rules is subject to GM interference.
A player may define anything to be reasonable/appropriate as long as it is not expressly forbidden in the rules (still, subject to a modicum of sense - I'm looking at you, actions after dead condition)
What is appropriate for a Half-HD creature is determined by what is halved by the reduce HD according to the rules. The GM does not determine what is appropriate. The rules do. It's not my call or the GM's call. Just the rules call.
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It's still a question of reasonable and ultimately undecidable dispute. Any given answer - Anwyr's, mine, anyone's - matters for that individual circumstance alone. Because, like I said, "appropriate" is inherently subjective; the rules don't define it, you have only RAI to go on, and even that's not explicit enough to avoid doubt.
It's still a question of reasonable and ultimately undecidable dispute. Any given answer - Anwyr's, mine, anyone's - matters for that individual circumstance alone. Because, like I said, "appropriate" is inherently subjective; the rules don't define it, you have only RAI to go on, and even that's not explicit enough to avoid doubt.
The rules do define what is appropriate. There are many things reduced by halving HD. The resulting simulacrum is appropriate if those are reduced. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of how the rules work.
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What is appropriate for a Half-HD creature is determined by what is halved by the reduce HD according to the rules.
Find this definition of "appropriate" anywhere in the rules and I'll accept it.
But you won't, because you made it up.
The spell specifically says that special abilities are reduced to what is appropriate for the reduced hit dice. There are no mechanics to adjudicate that further, but the spell demands that you do it anyway. That only leaves it up to the individual GM.
What is appropriate for a Half-HD creature is determined by what is halved by the reduce HD according to the rules.Find this definition of "appropriate" anywhere in the rules and I'll accept it.
But you won't, because you made it up.
The spell specifically says that special abilities are reduced to what is appropriate for the reduced hit dice. There are no mechanics to adjudicate that further, but the spell demands that you do it anyway. That only leaves it up to the individual GM.
Most SLA's are not tied to HD. Therefore keeping them the same is appropriate. That's what the word means.
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Most SLA's are not tied to HD. Therefore keeping them the same is appropriate. That's what the word means.
It's really not.
For example, if someone says, "There's this spell that creates an illusory duplicate of a creature that's supposed to be about half as powerful as the original, is it appropriate to leave the original's most powerful spellcasting abilities entirely intact?" I'm likely to say no, because I see ignoring the basic concept of the spell as inappropriate. I would also see multiple 9th level spells as SLAs as "inappropriate" on a CR 10 creature. And frankly, I'd have no way to prove myself right or wrong, because there's no RAW for guidance.
Ok, even with an army of wishing simulacrums, question:
How do you find the fighter before he kills/incapacitates you? He is flying and undetectable by any means.
If you don't have immunity to mind affecting (or you could be deaf) you could be subject to a Geas.
If I have a reasonable suspicion that you are protected, I just approach and slay you where you stand with a martial attack (I haven't yet touched 2 of my mythic feats, and I've made no reliance on fighter configuration yet. I also have 3 more tiers to play with if necessary, so I am genuinely curious how you would counter this). I then flee your simulacrums before their initiative comes up after the surprise round, still undetectable.
The Fighter is only undetecable while Invisible. I'm fine with Carpet Bombing areas with Dispel. Also, the First attack on me will reveal his general area at least at which point the Fighter is as good as dead. In order to approach me the Fighter would have to move through a wall of Simulacrums. And since even while invisible and undetectable he can't share a space, I'll be able to find the Fighter that way.
Just get off a trap the soul like effect if not the spell itself.
That would stop the Fighter from coming back even without an Artifact Weapon, but ssssh... don't give away stuff that I might be using.
He can't attack me while Ethereal, even with a Ghost touch weapon. So... that won't help.
Ok. But it's not like he'll have a space to emerge into. So... the point?
That's fine. He's dead after he attacks me and at worst all I lose is an Astral Projection (assuming his attack is even successful).
Traveling in a group provokes Constitution checks? Gonna need a citation on that.
That's Spellcasting. SLA's are not spellcasting. Please cite where the Solar's SLA's are tied to HD. I'll wait.It doesn't say it is tied to HD. Therefore it isn't. I don't have to cite a rule that says it's not tied to HD. You have to cite one that says that it is.I already did. Spellcasting and other powers are tied to HD.
The solar does not have an HD-less race entry, so no rules say that powers are intrinsic to the solar race alone. The solar's creature types do not give a wish SLA.
Cite rules showing that the SLA is an exception to the general rule.
Other powers covers SLAs dude. Also dev FAQ has called SLAs spellcasting, SO it is double covered.
You need a rules citation.
That's fine. He's dead after he attacks me and at worst all I lose is an Astral Projection (assuming his attack is even successful).Since he's incorporeal and has true seeing, I'm not sure I'd risk astral projection. That seems like you'd lose really fast.
True Seeing won't help you with Astral Projection. And again this is assuming you can even hit (which is a very big assumption). Even if you do hit, your dead, the Wizard is fine. And I have a plan to make sure you don't come back. This is pretty much a guaranteed Wizard victory.
That's Spellcasting. SLA's are not spellcasting. Please cite where the Solar's SLA's are tied to HD. I'll wait.It doesn't say it is tied to HD. Therefore it isn't. I don't have to cite a rule that says it's not tied to HD. You have to cite one that says that it is.I already did. Spellcasting and other powers are tied to HD.
The solar does not have an HD-less race entry, so no rules say that powers are intrinsic to the solar race alone. The solar's creature types do not give a wish SLA.
Cite rules showing that the SLA is an exception to the general rule.
Other powers covers SLAs dude. Also dev FAQ has called SLAs spellcasting, SO it is double covered.
You need a rules citation.
SLAs aren't tied to HD. I need a citation they are. If you can't provide one, please discontinue this argument as it won't be in good faith.
The Fighter is only undetecable while Invisible. I'm fine with Carpet Bombing areas with Dispel. Also, the First attack on me will reveal his general area at least at which point the Fighter is as good as dead. In order to approach me the Fighter would have to move through a wall of Simulacrums. And since even while invisible and undetectable he can't share a space, I'll be able to find the Fighter that way.
This is your 4th "the first thing I would do," suggestion. The single biggest advantage you give yourself as the wizard is access to the fighters stat block and the ability to plan and prep your responce to his strategy after the combat starts.
Did you really fill all your 6th and 3rd level slots with dispel?
I'm seriously beginning to believe that if you were actually in a blind situation that your hubris would be your undoing. At best you are going to be sitting on 250 hp and a 50 AC and you seriously think that the fighter won't outright kill you in one blow? You are begging to eat a tree branch that I call an arrow for 20d6+385 damage as my standard action in the surprise round I get on you.