Judge them by their actions


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Goblin Squad Member

A hearty "Indeed!" for a dedicated RP section...

Goblin Squad Member

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Thod wrote:
Tell me what I did wrong...

No one holds anything against you for taking the Tower, or for fighting Brighthaven for it, or for posting an RP account of it.

However, I do hold it against you that you encouraged the community to shun Brighthaven, and to judge them as being untrustworthy or somehow morally failing, simply because they wanted to play the game and fight for Towers instead of meekly letting you have the Tower for no other reason than that you got there first.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
... instead of meekly letting you have the Tower for no other reason than that you got there first.

I'll venture the intent of the War of the Towers isn't to decide the future fate of the server based on who had the most characters on at server reset on 14 January. Or even who was fastest, or most organized, or whatever measure we might choose. It's to be several months of conflict.

Goblin Squad Member

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Oh My!!

Sounds like fun was had by the parties involved. Grats and I look forward to more reports and rumours in the taverns!

All else is either deliberate or just meh.

Goblin Squad Member

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TEO Cheatle wrote:

I think the problem is in fact the Roleplaying, it is the root cause of a lot of problems and misconceptions in this game.

Most if not all open world pvp games, RPing is done in RP threads away from the actual political threads. A lot of people are going to take what you post here at face value, whether you meant for that to be the case or not.

Personally, I dislike all the RPing going on, because I constantly have to ask myself in what light was something meant. In this cause you did separate it out somewhat, but others didn't catch on at all.

I hope the GW forums will have an RP section, separate from the community section for just these reasons.

It's actually very simple, if someone RP's "against you" then they are against you in game. It also means they don't necessarily hold anything against you OOC.

That's why they call it Rp-PvP. It is an extremely positive force I hope is used often in this game because it takes a lot of the "personal" player to player bad feelings out of winning and losing.

Goblin Squad Member

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It is nice to see the propaganda and counter propaganda systems are still evolving (and even picking up steam).

It's making an interesting first chapter to the on going story and from an outside perspective lends a hopeful light on the state of the game for me.

I really don't think the situation is as heavy as anyone from any opinion extreme is making it. That said the intrigue has to evolve from something. That it is happening at all is something. At the very least its not nothing.

Goblin Squad Member

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This thread and its ilk are the thing I always liked about EVE, and what I hoped PFO would generate. Let the politic begin!

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Thod wrote:
Tell me what I did wrong...

No one holds anything against you for taking the Tower, or for fighting Brighthaven for it, or for posting an RP account of it.

However, I do hold it against you that you encouraged the community to shun Brighthaven, and to judge them as being untrustworthy or somehow morally failing, simply because they wanted to play the game and fight for Towers instead of meekly letting you have the Tower for no other reason than that you got there first.

But it's ok for TSV to judge everyone else as being untrustworthy or having moral failings simply because they want to play the game and PvP?

Goblin Squad Member

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TEO Cheatle wrote:

I think the problem is in fact the Roleplaying, it is the root cause of a lot of problems and misconceptions in this game.

Most if not all open world pvp games, RPing is done in RP threads away from the actual political threads. A lot of people are going to take what you post here at face value, whether you meant for that to be the case or not.

Personally, I dislike all the RPing going on, because I constantly have to ask myself in what light was something meant. In this cause you did separate it out somewhat, but others didn't catch on at all.

I hope the GW forums will have an RP section, separate from the community section for just these reasons.

Hehe... That is called, "keep 'em guessing".

As is probably known, one of my favorite things to do. I'm just pulling your chains here as well.

I honestly could'nt care less about who takes what towers (other than the agreed upon 6). I honestly don't care what alignment you claim to be, hope to be, behave as or don't behave as. I know questioning some peoples alignment beliefs gets under their skin, and that makes me laugh.

I disagree with Nihimon when he says "It depends on who you double cross". He may choose to believe that, but your word is your word. You own that and it is positive or you don't, and it is negative. I'm only a liar to people I don't like, still makes you a liar. Even your enemies should be able to take you at your word.

Goblin Squad Member

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Bluddwolf wrote:
"Kill for Thrillers", Murderhobos and Bandits will swarm in and the River Kingdoms will become more like what they sound like when you read the River Kingdoms Guide.

I am probably among the least-steeped in Golarion lore here, but I suspect Paizo's and GW's intention is to forge ahead with a new story for the River Kingdoms, generated by PFO players, not try to replicate its history in perpetuity. Certainly, though, (assuming that suspicion is correct) one is free to roleplay a reactionary voice seeking to maintain the status quo against a huge influx of more civilized settlers, and that's an interesting contribution to that (to-be-)evolving story.

Bluddwolf wrote:
Being concerned about PvP in a game that has been billed as a PvP focused game is like being concerned about your electric bill before you turn your computer on.

I use my computer all the time, and I am concerned about my electricity usage. That's why, when I built my computer, I specifically picked components designed with a better wattage:processing power ratio in mind rather than just going all-out with computational power. "Concerned about" doesn't equate to "anathema", it's not an all-or-nothing choice, and neither is PvP in a game.

Goblin Squad Member

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Bluddwolf wrote:
Even your enemies should be able to take you at your word.

Hear, hear!

People who think that Caldeathe favours Tavernhold over Golgotha do not understand the importance to a Lawful Good being of being able to rely on the people with whom you deal.

Goblin Squad Member

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TEO Cheatle wrote:

I think the problem is in fact the Roleplaying, it is the root cause of a lot of problems and misconceptions in this game.

Most if not all open world pvp games, RPing is done in RP threads away from the actual political threads. A lot of people are going to take what you post here at face value, whether you meant for that to be the case or not.

Personally, I dislike all the RPing going on, because I constantly have to ask myself in what light was something meant. In this cause you did separate it out somewhat, but others didn't catch on at all.

I hope the GW forums will have an RP section, separate from the community section for just these reasons.

I know I happen to be in the minority for most MMORPGs, but Roleplaying is part of the core of this game. In my mind, Cheatle, you have it all backwards. This is a roleplaying game with elements of war and politics. Not a war and politics game with elements of roleplaying. I'd prefer if the majority of the forum was roleplay, and out of character discussions were pushed into a dedicated subforum. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Hmm, that sounds even better--make RP an important part up front. Watch me back-flip:

A hearty "Indeed!" for a dedicated OOC section...

Goblin Squad Member

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Lifedragn wrote:
I know I happen to be in the minority for most MMORPGs, but Roleplaying is part of the core of this game. In my mind, Cheatle, you have it all backwards. This is a roleplaying game with elements of war and politics. Not a war and politics game with elements of roleplaying. I'd prefer if the majority of the forum was roleplay, and out of character discussions were pushed into a dedicated subforum. :)

I suspect Cheatle would be totally on board with that, as long as he didn't have to keep guessing one way or the other.

Goblin Squad Member

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If I don't have to guess, I don't care, lol


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hate to post on here and bother everyone who seems really into this, but what are you folks talking about? I've seen various forums lately with this names popping up. Is there a game I am missing somewhere out there?

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
Even your enemies should be able to take you at your word.

Hear, hear!

People who think that Caldeathe favours Tavernhold over Golgotha do not understand the importance to a Lawful Good being of being able to rely on the people with whom you deal.

As a Tavernholder, I should be offended by this! No, I should laugh it off. Then again, it would be a good excuse to join Kobold Cleaver in blaming everything on Caldeathe... Maybe I should make a 1,000 point sniper and knock a couple points of durability off his gear before husks arrive on the live server. Nah, I'm sure he didn't mean it; everyone loves Chaotic Good!

Goblin Squad Member

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Gol Phyllain wrote:
But it's ok for TSV to judge everyone else as being untrustworthy or having moral failings simply because they want to play the game and PvP?

Well, I knew this was coming, but it still sucks.

Did you see the way I so clearly laid out the very specific things Thod did to cause me to reach my conclusion? They way I quoted him and referred to specific statements and actions?

Do you see how you just made a bald assertion with no evidence? You just made your accusation without bothering to make a case.

I submit that the reason you did this is because, in fact, there is no case. When I personally have called someone out in the past, it's almost always for one of three reasons: 1) they're being extremely rude to a new poster; 2) they're spreading misinformation about game mechanics or stated developer intents; or 3) they're doing something that I think is against the spirit of the rules of the game.

I have never called anyone out for wanting to PvP. It's just that the people who were extremely rude to new posters have been claiming that over and over for so long that some folks have apparently come to believe them.

Goblin Squad Member

Rojosama wrote:
I hate to post on here and bother everyone who seems really into this, but what are you folks talking about? I've seen various forums lately with this names popping up. Is there a game I am missing somewhere out there?

Threw me for a loop for a second :)

The game is Pathfinder Online. It's a Fantasy Sandbox MMO with Theme Park elements and Open World PvP. It's a territorial control game, and a character development game.

It was announced back in November of 2011, in A Journey of a Thousand Miles Begins with a Single Step. You can read a lot about it in the blog archives along the right side of that page.

Goblin Squad Member

Rojosama wrote:
I hate to post on here and bother everyone who seems really into this, but what are you folks talking about? I've seen various forums lately with this names popping up. Is there a game I am missing somewhere out there?

The discussion is around a potential diplomatic issue (and spillover) between a few groups in Pathfinder Online. It is an MMO that is under development, based on Golarion lore, but driven by player groups rather than NPC factions.

If you're interested, just keep reading in this subforum - it shouldn't take too long to get up to speed with the politics going on! Failing that, any number of people here would be willing to give you the cliff notes, particularly if there is a chance you might subscribe to the game and be recruited :P


@Rojosama

Allow me to explain everything you need to know about PFO.

1) Travel to Golgotha.

2) Obey Benevolent Dictator.

Goblin Squad Member

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Midnight of Golgotha wrote:

@Rojosama

Allow me to explain everything you need to know about PFO.

1) Travel to Golgotha.

2) Obey Benevolent Dictator.

You have to hand it to her, Midnight is consistent!

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

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Kadere wrote:
This thread and its ilk are the thing I always liked about EVE, and what I hoped PFO would generate. Let the politic begin!

Begin? The politics of PFO began about five minutes after the initial Land Rush started (if not sooner than that). It's kind of weird, but in this game, the politics have more of a head start than the Early Enrollment players.

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
The politics of PFO began about five minutes after the initial Land Rush started (if not sooner than that).

Far sooner than that :)

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
The politics of PFO began about five minutes after the initial Land Rush started (if not sooner than that).
Far sooner than that :)

Yup, but it is ramping up!

Goblin Squad Member

Midnight of Golgotha wrote:

@Rojosama

Allow me to explain everything you need to know about PFO.

1) Travel to Golgotha.

2) Obey Benevolent Dictator.

There is nothing benevolent in evil; it is and always will be selfish by definition.

Goblin Squad Member

Harneloot wrote:
Midnight of Golgotha wrote:

@Rojosama

Allow me to explain everything you need to know about PFO.

1) Travel to Golgotha.

2) Obey Benevolent Dictator.

There is nothing benevolent in evil; it is and always will be selfish by definition.

The leader of an evil people does not have to be evil themselves. Benevolent Dictator could easily be Good and trying hard to slowly change the course of their people out of a sense of obligation.

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Harneloot wrote:
Midnight of Golgotha wrote:

@Rojosama

Allow me to explain everything you need to know about PFO.

1) Travel to Golgotha.

2) Obey Benevolent Dictator.

There is nothing benevolent in evil; it is and always will be selfish by definition.

The leader of an evil people does not have to be evil themselves. Benevolent Dictator could easily be Good and trying hard to slowly change the course of their people out of a sense of obligation.

At least until one step alignment rules force them to be Lawful Neutral at best ;)

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Harneloot wrote:
Midnight of Golgotha wrote:

@Rojosama

Allow me to explain everything you need to know about PFO.

1) Travel to Golgotha.

2) Obey Benevolent Dictator.

There is nothing benevolent in evil; it is and always will be selfish by definition.

The leader of an evil people does not have to be evil themselves. Benevolent Dictator could easily be Good and trying hard to slowly change the course of their people out of a sense of obligation.

True, but not likely in this case.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
The politics of PFO began about five minutes after the initial Land Rush started (if not sooner than that).
Far sooner than that :)

Ah, but without the game in a persistent state, all the conflict was just ideas and ideology. But a fight over a tower, this is REAL. This is the meat and potatoes. It's a whole new can of fish. Etc. This is what I play for.

Goblin Squad Member

Wow, and here I thought what we had there was just some PVP fun over an unclaimed tower !

Goblin Squad Member

Doc || Allegiant Gemstone Co. wrote:
If there is this much gnashing of teeth over one stray tower, I expect the tear harvesting to come is going to be a bumper crop.

You forgot the rending of garments.


Harneloot wrote:
Midnight of Golgotha wrote:

@Rojosama

Allow me to explain everything you need to know about PFO.

1) Travel to Golgotha.

2) Obey Benevolent Dictator.

There is nothing benevolent in evil; it is and always will be selfish by definition.

Using the term Benevolent Dictator suggests that the speaker feels they benefit.

I *do* feel that way. I also feel that others could benefit.

I'm curious what you mean by selfish, because I feel very well provided for by Benevolent Dictator, and in fact I appreciate the great sacrifices in time that Benevolent Dictator makes in order to organize us and see to our needs.

I hear "merchants" bickering in other threads about the correct price for goods, profit margins, opportunity costs, value of time, etc. and I'm under the impression that many of them consider themselves of "good" alignment even as they each try to gain constant advantage over each other and customers.

Defining Evil should be great fun, but I see far more of that selfish activity from those tied to "good" settlements.

Goblinworks Founder

As another Tavernholder and consummate role-player, I feel the need to support Caldeathe's comments regarding Alignment.
To our Lawful Good (overly dogmatic) brethren, we CG types have to be the most irritating; we are unpredictable, unreliable, a real nuisance when it suits us. The worst part is we are unleashing our shenanigans for the right reasons and that makes it difficult to justify killing.
At least with the LE, you can reason with them and have confidence that the contract that you paid lawyers too much money to verify was loophole free, will be upheld for as long as it is valid.

Now i don't want anyone to get the idea that when hiring Tavernhold to partake in your causes, that we will not uphold a contract once signed, just know that once said contract is over, we won't work for the other good guys too, one minute later. Ohh and be forewarned, sometimes our participation will be sporadic due to frequent bio breaks, and group tactics may flag a bit as the night rolls on and the flagons are emptied...SQUIRREL.... oh sorry i though we won already, where was I.

It is simply that we GC mercs are truly best left in the wild north, outside of petty politics and Machiavellian machinations. Please invite us out to trade when we are sober and party when we are not, but don't dirty our tavern floor with policrap, either of you Lawful types, that's where the peanut shells go and Hammar goes to sleep at morning. We wouldn't want to play robin hood and trounce your alliance boundaries in an effort to crash the copper market by raiding the hill around Golgatha and then giving it away to newbs for free.

I am enjoying the show however, from the peanut gallery, carry on. I just had to butt in while the wench was refilling me goblet. "Remember, remember, the Fifth of November!"

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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And regarding the issue of the tower:

"You have what you hold."

I expect that what is held will vary at least a little bit every single day, particularly among the settlements whose reach most exceeded their grasp yesterday.

Goblin Squad Member

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http://imgur.com/NtQuobJ

Goblin Squad Member

Wexel Daventry, The Veiled, T7V wrote:
Midnight of Golgotha wrote:

@Rojosama

Allow me to explain everything you need to know about PFO.

1) Travel to Golgotha.

2) Obey Benevolent Dictator.

You have to hand it to her, Midnight is consistent!

And if you give her your obedience, Midnight might even allow you to keep your hand.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

DeciusBrutus wrote:

And regarding the issue of the tower:

"You have what you hold."

I expect that what is held will vary at least a little bit every single day, particularly among the settlements whose reach most exceeded their grasp yesterday.

Indeed. Just today I participated in two contested towers changing hands.

Goblin Squad Member

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Midnight of Golgotha wrote:


Defining Evil should be great fun, but I see far more of that selfish activity from those tied to "good" settlements.

In the Context of Lawful Evil, "selfish" can still pertain to being focused on the betterment of the society. But it is still a Us v Them idea. Also in terms of Lawful, a stable community provides for more power at the top of the food chain. So it is in the benefit of the great Benevolent One to provide bread and circuses (or in this case Physic Staffs and Pot Plate +2) to the masses.

Goblin Squad Member

I can't help but think of North Korea when we start using titles like Great Benevolent One XD

But then I suppose our media and politics does try to paint them as a Lawful Evil state, so perhaps it is a good thematic fit.

Goblin Squad Member

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Hello, I´m Baron. I had a great time fighting it out. Lots of fun.

Goblin Squad Member

The title is Lord Regent.

Goblin Squad Member

Lifedragn wrote:

I can't help but think of North Korea when we start using titles like Great Benevolent One XD

But then I suppose our media and politics does try to paint them as a Lawful Evil state, so perhaps it is a good thematic fit.

It is pretty clearly doublespeak.

They may speak truth, but it is the entire truth? Is the real truth obfuscated behind subjective interpretations? As with Devils and Efreeti, it is best to take great care in deciphering the true meaning of their words.

Grand Lodge PFO Community Manager

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So... about that Algebra? Im gunna get on my regular account and go steal all your towers!! muahahahhaha :p

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