Goblin Squad Member
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Theodum looked at the note he had got from Golgotha. They had offered to help in the defence of the tower that Thod and friends had captured yesterday. If the reports had been right then the whole issue had been horrible.
Thod and the other heros of the Emerald Lodge - Baron, Frazzlerunning, Pinki, Alirya and Zaar Frozen Blade had ventured to the empty tower. It was far from any settlement - so there was no suspicion that anyone would detest to take this tower from them. Theodum had though long and hard which towers to take in this new stage that had let to the bloodshed - to the bloodshed of Emerald Lodge crafters.
The reports stated that they arrived with an empty tower. They spend time to clean it up, restore the battlement. During these actions they saw some wanderers. Ask where they were from the said Brighthaven. Thod had welcomed them to the tower for a good dring of dwarven ale once the work had been finished. But they left before that was done.
A while later - the group was just about to work on the gates and finish the build up of the tower - a larger group of armed men from Brighthaven arrived. The slaughtered Thod and his friends down to the last men.
Pharasma be praised that they didn't die permanently as they threw themselves back into the tower - not accepting the unjustice done to them. In an heroic battle after many death they finally chased the aggressors away.
It took a while to remove all the blood stains from the tower - but it is now in fully functional order and Theodum was proud of his troops.
Their weapons and armor was battered when they came back - Theodum would ask for donations from his other members - donations in coal and iron - to equip them better and honor them with the best weapon and armor that the Lodge could craft.
And for today he would go to the tower himself to show his solidarity. He would take with him some peasant with clubs and see if the agressors would come back. This seemed the better solution as to accept the help from Golgotha.
He smiled and went on towards a fruitful day of work. Just in case he also prepared a teleport for later in the day. No need for him to get killed with any of the peasants if they would be attacked again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please let it be known that the Emerald Lodge lays claim to the tower 5 hexes east of the Emerald lodge.
We also opened a fund for the heroes of the battle. Donations of 5 iron and 5 coal are taken at the bank of the Emerald Lodge from anyone who wants to donate for a good cause and better weapons and armor for our troops. Donations are taken also from members not aligned to the Emerald Lodge.
The tower will henceforward be known as Baron's Folly as he was the fiercest of fighters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Really liked the action, even though my scavenger wasn't really trained to PVP.
Did not like that a member of the own company cut me down once, even though I backed away and did not retaliate his attacks... but I probably attacked my own people as well, so... time will change that for the better.
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Goblin Squad Member
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[Bluddwolfism]
LOL, what ever happened to "Emerald Lodge should be Switzerland"?
From what I hear, both Brighthaven and Phaeros have upwards of 30 towers each. Never mind the fact that the supposed diminishing returns would make much more than 15 useless. If Aragon had shown such aggression and gluttony, the self righteous of the South would label our actions as "turning PFO into a murder sim."
LOL, how these forums have been duped!
TEO under the leadership of Andius would not have walked this path, just saying. Clearly I believe we can all dispense with the plain truth, Brighthaven is no beacon of "Light".
[/Bluddwolfism]
[ICC: "Qiang Tian Zsu"]
"Historians, Lore Masters and Keepers of the Emerald Spire, I have heard of your plight at the hands of aggressive powers from the South, and it pains me to hear of this suffering."
"I as an unaffiliated wanderer, a healer and herbalist wish to travel to your lands and lend assistance in what capacity I may, if you will have my visitation?"
"I having traveled in the northern hill lands, have come across deposits of coal and I will gladly bring what I have or can gather along the way to donate to your need."
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Goblin Squad Member
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Something untrue:
If Aragon had shown such aggression and gluttony, the self righteous of the South would label our actions as "turning PFO into a murder sim."
Something true:
If Brighthaven or Pharoes does X, Bluddwolf will try to make X look bad, even if Bluddwolf has previously talked about how good X is.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I can interrupt the Brighthaven bashing with a few observations:
Independent is very different than Neutral.
Claiming a tower 5 hexes away from your settlement, and on the borders of the largest group in the game is a statement that you're willing to play the PVP game.
Emerald Lodge won the fight, right? So my response is less "oh, the poor victims", and more, "Good job plucky underdogs."
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Goblin Squad Member
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Something untrue:
If Aragon had shown such aggression and gluttony, the self righteous of the South would label our actions as "turning PFO into a murder sim."Something true:
If Brighthaven or Pharoes does X, Bluddwolf will try to make X look bad, even if Bluddwolf has previously talked about how good X is.
Something even more true...
Bluddwolf has always claimed to want to do "X", and has never described doing "X" as a bad thing.
Those in opposition have always said they would do "Y", but they are now doing "X", which they previously described as being bad.
The ONLY difference is that one side has been open and honest from the very beginning and the other has not been.
But I welcome all to join in doing "X", especially when player looting is added, so that PFO will become what I always hoped it would.. EVE Online with Swords!!
There is nothing wrong with player killing "just because you can" if there is little else interesting to do.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"Judge them by their actions"
I imagine Brighthaven is going to have to watch themselves, not getting near the line of the non-agression pact. If the "Neutral" arbiter decides to contest a tower midway between to the two settlements, then goes on to claim the tower publically... Brighthaven probably has less reason to trust the neutrality of the arbiter the moment this thread was started.
edit to add disclosure: from Brighthaven/Empyrean Order, but not leadership.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Those in opposition have always said they would do "Y", but they are now doing "X", which they previously described as being bad.
BS. You've just never been able to differentiate between "hey, don't treat that guy like dog s+$% just because he's concerned about PvP" and "zomg PvP is bad, mkay?"
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Goblin Squad Member
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We also have towers midway between Emerald Lodge and Golgotha.
We would not have attacked if Brighthaven would have been in the tower.
We didn't attack when it was 5:2 in our favour but asked for the the two characters to go for another free tower - especially as I was told Brighthaven was trying to take 20 towers at once.
I offered to switch the tower for a different one.
I'm sure this action will be seen as a thorn in the side of Brighthaven. But the day will come that Golgotha might be unhappy with us.
Have a look at the map - there are not many towers to take to get us to my goal of 12.
Was it a statement?
Yes - we don't restrict ourselve to the core 6.
I'm aware there is a lot of Schadenfreude expressed here at the cost of Brighthaven and I have to be careful that we don't do a stunt like this often.
But I don't see any reason that Brighthaven had any bigger claim to this individual tower as we have.
And by taking this tower we now claim it ours.
The River Kingdom motto is:
You Keep What you Hold.
We hold it so we claim it.
We didn't use deception or any other unfair way to take it. If this specific tower is of strategic importance to Brighthaven then I'm open to talk.
But I wanted to pre-empt to be bullied out of the tower.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The EBA in general has made an interesting opening move that is currently being heavily discussed among some factions who are debating how this affects them, how much they should ultimately care, and what if any response should be. The EBA's intent is also not entirely known, so perhaps some of this is overblown, we'll probably find out in the next few days.
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@Thod the Everbloom Alliance
I believe the point here is not that we (TEO) had a better claim to the tower than EL, or that they had a better claim than us, but rather that two forces clashed for an unclaimed tower. There was no agreement securing that tower for EL, and they won against our roaming force, so they are hardly "victims" of the "expansionist" TEO (for reference, we took 21 towers, none of which were contested - the EL tower and one we fought Golgotha over went to each respectively).
Thod took the tower expecting pvp, and got some. There are no hard feelings on either side, and no complaint has been made by Thod, so it truly is a non-issue.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am assuming it is a reference to the Everbloom Alliance.
I was going to participate in the great X and Y debate, but in terms of variables it seemed more like an "A" and "B" conversation. That being the case I will "C" myself out of it.
Waka Waka!
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Thod the Everbloom Alliance
I believe the point here is not that we (TEO) had a better claim to the tower than EL, or that they had a better claim than us, but rather that two forces clashed for an unclaimed tower. There was no agreement securing that tower for EL, and they won against our roaming force, so they are hardly "victims" of the "expansionist" TEO (for reference, we took 21 towers, none of which were contested - the EL tower and one we fought Golgotha over went to each respectively).
Thod took the tower expecting pvp, and got some. There are no hard feelings on either side, and no complaint has been made by Thod, so it truly is a non-issue.
A pretty accurate description of what happened yesterday.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thod fails to mention at all that he let us know, prior to War of Towers, that he was going to fight us over perimeter towers. I like how all of this paints a certain picture, but leaves out key details.
The chronicler writes the history - and I'm in the pay of the Emerald Lodge.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thod fails to mention at all that he let us know, prior to War of Towers, that he was going to fight us over perimeter towers. I like how all of this paints a certain picture, but leaves out key details.
That's a bit strong, Cheatle. Theodim's post was clearly in character. I don't think Thod ever expressed any "real" concern about fighting over the tower. It feels like outsiders are trying to turn it into a far bigger act of aggression than any of the insiders considered it, and none of the insiders should get defensive about it.
Ozem's Vigil has many members that hope to fight over non-core towers. Those that don't will avoid them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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[Bluddwolfism]
Aragon had shown such aggression and gluttony, the self righteous of the South would label our actions as "turning PFO into a murder sim."LOL, how these forums have been duped!
Clearly I believe we can all dispense with the plain truth, Brighthaven is no beacon of "Light".
[/Bluddwolfism]
Oh look, Bluddwolf DOESN'T want people to pvp.
I'd like to see anything that says the tower fought over is protected to Emerald Lodge or anyone else. Otherwise all this slander is just stirring the pot (and doing the awful thing Bludd accused others would do given the chance).
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Goblin Squad Member
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The EBA in general has made an interesting opening move that is currently being heavily discussed among some factions who are debating how this affects them, how much they should ultimately care, and what if any response should be. The EBA's intent is also not entirely known, so perhaps some of this is overblown, we'll probably find out in the next few days.
That party that fought Thod was looking for pvp fun at a contested tower not covered under the NAP. That's the answer to all your questions.
Details: EL had a 700 point lead by the time combat started in earnest and could generate up to 50 points per minute. The outcome as far as tower control was never much in question in my mind. Tactically it's a bad time sink to anyone planning to take over the entire world considering all the nearby claimable unoccupied towers at the time (first thing after server came up).
Crafting is fun but many people enjoy an occasional quick pvp change-up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Zef leans against a post at Keeper's pass, the clanging of mugs and song of fiddles fill the ramshackle town. Keeper's Pass showed the signs of having been propped up in a fortnight, just like all the towns did, the roads were muddy and unsafe, the only defenses decrepit watchtowers left over from an long forgotten war. Desan stood with her, both somewhat apart from the revel, neither priest taking in the full joy that some of the dwarves seemed to be mustering.
Did you hear about Thod and his Emerald Lodge?, he said, the usual hint of calm danger in his voice
I did. They are the child who throws the stone and hides the hand and as neutral as a blight druid. But all will be revealed, in time. Milani teaches that the oppressed rarely acknowledge their oppression and misplace their anger on those who would free them. Such is the curse of Milani's calling.
Together they stood and watched the fires burn in silence.
Well, obviously not until they have more to gain from breaking their word than they might lose in reputation for doing so.They might be evil - but you have to love the lawful side of them.Support from the villains? Aggression from the Heroes?
This world makes little sense, but Golgotha guaranteed the independence of the Emerald Lodge long ago, and Golgothans do not break their word.
In a community like this, breaking your word is going to haunt you for years.
The only smart thing to do is not to make too many promises.
I'd say that as of yesterday Golgotha became even more predictable and dependable, because Golgothans were finally presented with the sanctioned PvP they were itching for.
If they add in some form of sanctioned PvP for controlling local resource nodes, one might never again read of "murder hobos hiding in the bushes".
I'm not a murder hobo, I'm just a park ranger who is a strict disciplinarion. :-)
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I think the takeaway here is that being the largest group in the game, and also being overtly aligned to lawful good, puts you on a pretty high pedestal and a standard that may leave you open to psychological assault if/when you get beaten and or are perceived to be acting out of character.
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Goblin Squad Member
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[Bluddwolfism]
Aragon had shown such aggression and gluttony, the self righteous of the South would label our actions as "turning PFO into a murder sim."LOL, how these forums have been duped!
Clearly I believe we can all dispense with the plain truth, Brighthaven is no beacon of "Light".
[/Bluddwolfism]
Oh look, Bluddwolf DOESN'T want people to pvp.
On the contrary, I want everyone to PvP..... I want to PvP like it's 1999!!!
I want EvE with swords.... Hell, I had no problems with the PvP of Darkfall UW, if skilling up in that game wasn't such a dreadful grind, I'd still be there.
As said earlier, next week everyone needs to get their "big boy" pants on. Player looting, even if it is just inventory, will hopefully bring out more of the type of player I'm hoping for.
"Kill for Thrillers", Murderhobos and Bandits will swarm in and the River Kingdoms will become more like what they sound like when you read the River Kingdoms Guide.
I've always said there was a marked difference between the average alignment of the River Kingdoms and the stated alignment goals of those on these boards. It is good to se that the largest company / settlement has shed its facade and is showing that it is not Neutral Good.
I used to make Andius'' head explode when I said TEO was closer to CE than NG, especially during the Treaty of Rovagug days. I think you are probably more Lawful than chaotic, but the "Good" just isn't there.
I applaud you all for the bloodshed you have brought, and the rivers would be running red if they had any freaking water!!! Lol, maybe that will come in EE version 12.5
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Goblin Squad Member
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Those in opposition have always said they would do "Y", but they are now doing "X", which they previously described as being bad.BS. You've just never been able to differentiate between "hey, don't treat that guy like dog s#!@ just because he's concerned about PvP" and "zomg PvP is bad, mkay?"
Being concerned about PvP in a game that has been billed as a PvP focused game is like being concerned about your electric bill before you turn your computer on.]
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Goblin Squad Member
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The dwarf is robed like a wizard, fitted in emeralds and face painted as the bard. Smiling white paint one side of the face and a frowning mask on the other. He stands at the bank of Keeeper's Pass, shouting dramatically at the merchants gathered around him
A skirmish over an unclaimed tower in the middle of nowhere used as an excuse to bathe hidden allies in glory and defame their justly enemies.
Theodum! This neutrality fools absolutely noone. Emerald's Lodge has been highly competitive since we all first rushed to claim on lands and only hides behind the original stated intent when it suits them to cry foul! Now they collect taxes to pay our sworn enemies, scourges of the River Kingdom.
We have dealt with poisonous-honey types before and will do so again. And again! And again!
Indeed my friends, judge them by their actions!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I consider us NG for the most part.
We aren't expansionists, we don't spawn camp people, we don't kill people on sight, and we try and follow the Rule of Wheaton (not being dicks). The issue here is that we laid claim to a hex, and we tried to take said hex, because that was within our window, we honored all previous agreements.
If good in this game means playing meek, not participating in PvP, and generally attempting to screw yourself over, then I think most people will shy away from that alignment.
Bluddwolf, I think the issue is that in the River Kingdoms there is a difference between the average alignment and what is generally accepted in the River Kingdoms. I think we are playing NG in the River Kingdoms.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think the takeaway here is that being the largest group in the game, and also being overtly aligned to lawful good, puts you on a pretty high pedestal and a standard that may leave you open to psychological assault if/when you get beaten and or are perceived to be acting out of character.
Exactly. I've been out of leadership involvement for the past months due to health issues, but from what I've seen and understand is that we created some plans for towers to take first based on what we projected could be claimed by ourselves and our neighbors without too much conflict. The tower in question was one of our marks for the first claim. We had a small group show up to try to follow the plan and were defeated fair and square by a non-hostile competitor. There was no malice in the fight. Simply an unexpected conflict in plans on both sides.
Personally, I would have preferred more diplomatic discussion to be the first follow-up but the past has been set. The high pedestal may have been shaken a bit, but I have all confidence that Brighthaven will settle and prove to be a benevolent neighbor through the future.
Congratulations to all who had won skirmishes over a tower thus far!
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Goblin Squad Member
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In a community like this, breaking your word is going to haunt you for years.
I think it has a lot to do with who you break your word to. In some circles, I would imagine that a spectacular betrayal of a particularly despised enemy would be roundly praised.
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I'm calling on my Eve experiences, mostly.
While a thrilling betrayal makes for long lived stories, those individual characters are generally "burnt" for the rest of their careers. In fact, most of them are never heard from again and probably quit playing.
Organizations that win by a betrayal are also remembered for their betrayal.
That might not be immediately crippling, in a game of might. But it certainly complicates propaganda wars.
And in a game like this that doesn't bill itself as a dark future where no one can be trusted, those betrayals may have even more negative impact with our fellow players than betrayals in Eve.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Was it a statement?
Yes - we don't restrict ourselve to the core 6.
If this is how the residents of Brighthaven respond to their neighbours, maybe they will not be so welcome in other areas in future.
Thod,
Having chosen the title of this thread - clearly meant to call down judgment upon Brighthaven - and having chosen to "Like" the post above - clearly meant to encourage others to treat Brighthaven with mistrust and even to shun them - sends a much clearer message than that you don't restrict yourselves to the Core 6 Towers.
So there is no misunderstanding, Phaeros does not recognize your "claim" to the 5 Towers east of Emerald Lodge. If we take them from you, I hope that you'll accept that as part of the game, and not as evidence of some character flaw that you would feel compelled to speak out against. We fully expect Emerald Lodge to continue to try to hold Towers in Everbloom Alliance territory, and never had any intention of casting aspersions on your character or neutrality for doing so.
However, publicly denigrating - unjustly - our closest ally will have a significant impact on our assessment of your character and neutrality.
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My 2c only, not to be construed as representative of KotC as a whole.
I do not see this skirmish between competitors as being anything more than a bit of fun and rivalry. Emerald Lodge was looking to expand its holdings into unnegotiated territory, and BH was in the same boat. All participants seemed to be willing and ready for PvP on their own terms and I don't see why or how it could affect the status of the EBA.
Cheers
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please note that at present I speak for the Keepers of the Circle as a diplomat in this. It is incorrect to characterize this as an action by the Everbloom Alliance. We, the Alliance, are united in supporting one another and protecting our lands, but we are also separate entities that make our own decisions and take our own actions. I would ask that more particular care be given to discussions involving settlements, companies, and alliances. Indeed, one must even take care when referring to "Keepers" as such can refer to the settlement in which we live, our specific company and its member Rings, or also possibly other companies settled at Keeper's Pass. Specificity in your communication will help avoid confusion and unnecessary conflict
Further, we view the actions taken yesterday as unfortunate (as are all acts of aggression) but also expected given the nature of the race for tower control. It is our hope that with ownership now established, all groups might come to a reasonable, diplomatic solution to any transfer of tower control. I am happy to assist in such conversations if desired. Such a discussion might even involve physical competition for control, as I understand many relish the opportunity to prove their worth. But if such is necessary, I would at least ask that the involved parties come to an understanding prior to the conflict, lay out specific terms for engagement, and ultimately acknowledge the rightful winner once said competition is complete. As for the events of yesterday, the Keepers congratulate Emerald Lodge on their victory, and as always support your goal of remaining a Neutral party in this region. I personally hope that this encounter does not sour any relations, nor taint that Neutrality, and can instead be viewed as healthy competition in our strange little world here in the River Kingdoms.
Squaring the Circle,
Erian El'ranelen
Guardian of Gold
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Goblin Squad Member
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All
Seems I stuck a hornest nest with this whole thread.
First - distinguish IC (Theodum) and OOC - Thod. I try to keep them apart as far as I can.
About the title - this was preemptive and this was a Theodum title - deliberately vague so you can misunderstand it. I did ask OOC yesterday night well after we took the tower if Brighthaven accepts out claim.
They didn't say no - but they didn't say yes either. That left me in a dilemma. Was this stalling or was this just asking the troops. I don't know.
But there was no time to wait - so I started this thread with the deliberate title to put more pressure on TEO in case they decide no and take it today.
I even offered an exchange of towers.
From there it took on a life on it's own. But I stand by the title - judge them by their actions.
You can judge them by mine. Tell me what I did wrong apart of doing roleplay and doing PvP for a single tower.
Out now to go for a beer. Have fun here.
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If there is this much gnashing of teeth over one stray tower, I expect the tear harvesting to come is going to be a bumper crop.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think the problem is in fact the Roleplaying, it is the root cause of a lot of problems and misconceptions in this game.
Most if not all open world pvp games, RPing is done in RP threads away from the actual political threads. A lot of people are going to take what you post here at face value, whether you meant for that to be the case or not.
Personally, I dislike all the RPing going on, because I constantly have to ask myself in what light was something meant. In this cause you did separate it out somewhat, but others didn't catch on at all.
I hope the GW forums will have an RP section, separate from the community section for just these reasons.