paizo.com Recent Posts in Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)paizo.com Recent Posts in Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)2015-01-15T03:43:21Z2015-01-15T03:43:21ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)The_Mothmanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#352023-07-12T05:30:25Z2023-07-12T05:30:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Joey Virtue wrote:</div><blockquote> I really think the challenge in this adventure as well as the previous book needs to be turned up. Way to many low CR encounters, I can’t believe there is only one storm giant for the entire adventure path. I’m thinking about adding Storm Giant captains to all the cloud giant squads. </blockquote><p>I was considering adding a couple beaten down Rune Giants to the castle to fill this sort of captain or commander role. Sure, they could dominate or charm Volstus, but the fact that they haven't should only make him seem more powerful to players who recognize Rune Giants for what they are.Joey Virtue wrote:I really think the challenge in this adventure as well as the previous book needs to be turned up. Way to many low CR encounters, I can’t believe there is only one storm giant for the entire adventure path. I’m thinking about adding Storm Giant captains to all the cloud giant squads.
I was considering adding a couple beaten down Rune Giants to the castle to fill this sort of captain or commander role. Sure, they could dominate or charm Volstus, but the fact that they...The_Mothman2023-07-12T05:30:25ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Artofregicidehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#342021-05-02T18:13:01Z2021-05-02T18:13:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Souls At War wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Hmm, aren't there a few "smaller" giants in the Castle? the place would probably be difficult for large creatures as well. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Artofregicide wrote:</div><blockquote> Changing Volstus's class (magus seems the current plan, though sorcerer is also under consideration).</blockquote><p>you would also have to consider changing some of his gears.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Joey Virtue wrote:</div><blockquote> I really think the challenge in this adventure as well as the previous book needs to be turned up. Way to many low CR encounters, I can’t believe there is only one storm giant for the entire adventure path. I’m thinking about adding Storm Giant captains to all the cloud giant squads. As well as many other things to this campaign.</blockquote>the Cloud Giants can already be tough customers, but I agree that the lack of Storm Giants is a bit weird </blockquote><p>Yes, large creatures would be more or less be on the position of the PCs most of the AP.
<p>Yeah, I did a complete rebuild, keeping the artifacts and iconic items (armor, weapon). </p>
<p>I'm considering including a Storm Giant or few, but I've already added quite q few interesting unique encounters including a very powerful, venerable cyclops diviner to replace the naga. He's actually increasingly at odds with Volstus, allowing for a non-combat solution...</p>Souls At War wrote:Hmm, aren't there a few "smaller" giants in the Castle? the place would probably be difficult for large creatures as well.
Artofregicide wrote: Changing Volstus's class (magus seems the current plan, though sorcerer is also under consideration).
you would also have to consider changing some of his gears. Joey Virtue wrote:I really think the challenge in this adventure as well as the previous book needs to be turned up. Way to many low CR encounters, I can’t believe there...Artofregicide2021-05-02T18:13:01ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Souls At Warhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#332021-04-28T17:29:33Z2021-04-27T02:37:18Z<p>Hmm, aren't there a few "smaller" giants in the Castle? the place would probably be difficult for large creatures as well. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Artofregicide wrote:</div><blockquote> Changing Volstus's class (magus seems the current plan, though sorcerer is also under consideration).</blockquote><p>you would also have to consider changing some of his gears.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Joey Virtue wrote:</div><blockquote> I really think the challenge in this adventure as well as the previous book needs to be turned up. Way to many low CR encounters, I can’t believe there is only one storm giant for the entire adventure path. I’m thinking about adding Storm Giant captains to all the cloud giant squads. As well as many other things to this campaign.</blockquote><p>the Cloud Giants can already be tough customers, but I agree that the lack of Storm Giants is a bit weirdHmm, aren't there a few "smaller" giants in the Castle? the place would probably be difficult for large creatures as well.
Artofregicide wrote:Changing Volstus's class (magus seems the current plan, though sorcerer is also under consideration).
you would also have to consider changing some of his gears. Joey Virtue wrote:I really think the challenge in this adventure as well as the previous book needs to be turned up. Way to many low CR encounters, I can’t believe there is only one storm...Souls At War2021-04-27T02:37:18ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Artofregicidehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#322021-03-17T19:39:20Z2021-02-24T00:07:17Z<p>Thinking about doing my god-awful rewrite treatment to this book. There would be significantly less that Is change, but I have some big changes in mind.</p>
<p>Changing Volstus's class (magus seems the current plan, though sorcerer is also under consideration).</p>
<p>I've also added a few significant NPC's and a secret weapon to his arsenal so his plan isn't "big army of giants and some orcs mebbe".</p>Thinking about doing my god-awful rewrite treatment to this book. There would be significantly less that Is change, but I have some big changes in mind.
Changing Volstus's class (magus seems the current plan, though sorcerer is also under consideration).
I've also added a few significant NPC's and a secret weapon to his arsenal so his plan isn't "big army of giants and some orcs mebbe".Artofregicide2021-02-24T00:07:17ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)wraithstrike (alias of concerro)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#312019-12-26T06:09:07Z2019-12-26T06:09:07Z<p>There aren't that many enemies in the castle considering how big it is. I understand that is because the Storm Tyrant killed a lot of them. My playes are resting in on the engine floor after clearing it out.</p>There aren't that many enemies in the castle considering how big it is. I understand that is because the Storm Tyrant killed a lot of them. My playes are resting in on the engine floor after clearing it out.wraithstrike (alias of concerro)2019-12-26T06:09:07ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)JulianWhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#302019-03-07T13:06:44Z2019-03-07T13:06:44Z<p>A bit of bump here as I'm about to start reffing this book this weekend</p>
<p>Did your parties get to rest anywhere ? Did they leave the cloud citadel and come back somehow?</p>
<p>If no to all this, how did you handle leveling?</p>
<p>How did it work out in terms of challenge either way?</p>
<p>Mainly asking because plot wise it feels like the whole book should be one break-neck run through as the party invade the flying castle, which is very cool flavour wise. But my concern is are the stats assuming the party get their spells and other abilities back once in a while? (as book 1 seemed too)</p>A bit of bump here as I'm about to start reffing this book this weekend
Did your parties get to rest anywhere ? Did they leave the cloud citadel and come back somehow?
If no to all this, how did you handle leveling?
How did it work out in terms of challenge either way?
Mainly asking because plot wise it feels like the whole book should be one break-neck run through as the party invade the flying castle, which is very cool flavour wise. But my concern is are the stats assuming the party...JulianW2019-03-07T13:06:44ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Joey Virtuehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#292019-02-16T16:24:50Z2019-02-16T16:24:50Z<p>Yeah I can’t see a party doing that ever</p>Yeah I can’t see a party doing that everJoey Virtue2019-02-16T16:24:50ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)JulianWhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#282019-02-16T09:26:49Z2019-02-16T09:26:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Joey Virtue wrote:</div><blockquote><p> How are they trying to leave?
</p>
Teleport? Or something else? </blockquote><p>Teleport or flying I would expect.
<p>They haven't got there yet. </p>
<p>Currently my reading of the book is that the party seem to be expected to rush in (without a rest after the last part of book 5) and then go straight through the whole of book 6 without replenishing spells or abilities at any point.</p>
<p>Mainly I'm looking to check that with other folks who have GM'd it to see if I'm misreading that or if that's actually part of the author's plan.</p>Joey Virtue wrote:How are they trying to leave?
Teleport? Or something else?
Teleport or flying I would expect. They haven't got there yet.
Currently my reading of the book is that the party seem to be expected to rush in (without a rest after the last part of book 5) and then go straight through the whole of book 6 without replenishing spells or abilities at any point.
Mainly I'm looking to check that with other folks who have GM'd it to see if I'm misreading that or if that's actually...JulianW2019-02-16T09:26:49ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Joey Virtuehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#272019-02-15T20:50:08Z2019-02-15T20:50:08Z<p>How are they trying to leave?
<br />
Teleport? Or something else?</p>How are they trying to leave?
Teleport? Or something else?Joey Virtue2019-02-15T20:50:08ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)JulianWhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#262019-02-15T11:50:15Z2019-02-15T11:50:15Z<p>How did other GMs handle parties resting or attempting to leave the fortress and return in this book?</p>How did other GMs handle parties resting or attempting to leave the fortress and return in this book?JulianW2019-02-15T11:50:15ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Joey Virtuehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#252019-01-01T02:19:13Z2019-01-01T02:19:13Z<p>I really think the challenge in this adventure as well as the previous book needs to be turned up. Way to many low CR encounters, I can’t believe there is only one storm giant for the entire adventure path. I’m thinking about adding Storm Giant captains to all the cloud giant squads. As well as many other things to this campaign.
<br />
Now that I have read all six books I can start to add my own touches.
<br />
A shadow giant Rogue template Horizon walker assassin will be in my heroes future for sure.</p>I really think the challenge in this adventure as well as the previous book needs to be turned up. Way to many low CR encounters, I can’t believe there is only one storm giant for the entire adventure path. I’m thinking about adding Storm Giant captains to all the cloud giant squads. As well as many other things to this campaign.
Now that I have read all six books I can start to add my own touches.
A shadow giant Rogue template Horizon walker assassin will be in my heroes future for sure.Joey Virtue2019-01-01T02:19:13ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Charlie Bell (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#242018-02-16T16:34:41Z2018-02-16T16:34:41Z<p>On the bomb:</p>
<p>How come an explosion powerful enough to "[break] off an immense wedge of rock in the castle’s base . . . about 50,000 tons of shattered rock" and collapse multiple floors of the keep, when the walls have 2700 hp per 10 ft section. . .</p>
<p>. . . only does "12d6 points of fire damage and 12d6 points of bludgeoning damage to all creatures in the duct that are within 90 feet of the bomb"?</p>
<p>PCs should be instantly vaporized, no save, by an explosion that could fell the cloud castle.</p>On the bomb:
How come an explosion powerful enough to "[break] off an immense wedge of rock in the castle’s base . . . about 50,000 tons of shattered rock" and collapse multiple floors of the keep, when the walls have 2700 hp per 10 ft section. . .
. . . only does "12d6 points of fire damage and 12d6 points of bludgeoning damage to all creatures in the duct that are within 90 feet of the bomb"?
PCs should be instantly vaporized, no save, by an explosion that could fell the cloud castle.Charlie Bell (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16)2018-02-16T16:34:41ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)GreySector (RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#232017-05-16T13:48:28Z2017-05-16T13:48:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mary Yamato wrote:</div><blockquote>The art shows the engine level completely inside the cloud on p. 23, probably also on p. 8 (though in that one the bottom of the stone sticks out). If so, the giants firing downward are useless.</blockquote><p>The giants use their <i><a href="http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Scope%20of%20Stormsight" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">scopes of stormsight</a></i> to ignore the cloud.Mary Yamato wrote:The art shows the engine level completely inside the cloud on p. 23, probably also on p. 8 (though in that one the bottom of the stone sticks out). If so, the giants firing downward are useless.
The giants use their scopes of stormsight to ignore the cloud.GreySector (RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8)2017-05-16T13:48:28ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Davor Firetusk (alias of Jason Belter)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#222016-12-01T13:54:38Z2016-12-01T13:54:38Z<p>Any tips on how to run the potential for flying encounters? I'm running this for PFS, so they are getting dropped in halfway through the castle with the bomb already diffused. I have a vague notion about giving them some sort of percentile or perception checks while they are in open areas to be spotted, but I'm curious if others had another way of handling that since obviously it can radically alter how the entire scenario plays out.</p>Any tips on how to run the potential for flying encounters? I'm running this for PFS, so they are getting dropped in halfway through the castle with the bomb already diffused. I have a vague notion about giving them some sort of percentile or perception checks while they are in open areas to be spotted, but I'm curious if others had another way of handling that since obviously it can radically alter how the entire scenario plays out.Davor Firetusk (alias of Jason Belter)2016-12-01T13:54:38ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Mary Yamatohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#212016-05-23T04:01:16Z2016-05-23T04:01:16Z<p>Some technical comments and corrections:</p>
<p>I really appreciated the "down to X" / "up to Y" indications on all the stairways. These are great and should be on all maps! However the one that says "Up to F10b" on the first floor map should say "Down to F10b", which caused some confusion.</p>
<p>The rents in the force field are underdescribed. How big are they? Does finding one completely negate the force field? Also, how far down does the force field go? Apparently it isn't meant to cover the engine level?</p>
<p>Where is the cloud? The giants in the engine level are supposed to fire at the PCs, yet the chains pass through the cloud and it is supposed to hamper the yaoguai. The art shows the engine level completely inside the cloud on p. 23, probably also on p. 8 (though in that one the bottom of the stone sticks out). If so, the giants firing downward are useless. </p>
<p>The GM should work out in advance which rooms have broken walls allowing access. My PCs flew around outside and it was hard to inform them—I missed one and they were annoyed. I believe they are F51, F54 and F56 (all trapped). Also it may help to know that F56, shown in an inset map, is (I think!) on top of F55. </p>
<p>GMs should be aware that a night attack makes it very easy for the PCs to bypass the whole ash-giant segment, as nothing will ever be able to see them. (The giants are "keeping a close eye" on the passage from over 500 feet away.) If you don't want this, I recommend lighting the whole cavern with pools and rivers of lava. Some lava "waterfalls" would be scenic!</p>Some technical comments and corrections:
I really appreciated the "down to X" / "up to Y" indications on all the stairways. These are great and should be on all maps! However the one that says "Up to F10b" on the first floor map should say "Down to F10b", which caused some confusion.
The rents in the force field are underdescribed. How big are they? Does finding one completely negate the force field? Also, how far down does the force field go? Apparently it isn't meant to cover the engine...Mary Yamato2016-05-23T04:01:16ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Lasshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#202016-01-19T16:29:07Z2016-01-19T16:29:07Z<p>I posted my review of this book for those who may be interested. </p>
<p><a href="http://paizo.com/products/btpy9et9?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-96-Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#newPost" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"> Giantslayer Book 6</a></p>I posted my review of this book for those who may be interested.
Giantslayer Book 6Lass2016-01-19T16:29:07ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Adam Smith (Order of the Amber Die)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#192020-01-28T19:35:41Z2016-01-17T21:26:19Z<p>Giantslayer Fans:</p>
<p>Our group played a marathon of <i>Shadow of the Storm Tyrant</i> last summer and was able to reach the end and face Volstus. The players were excited to finally explore the cloud castle they had heard of during the AP, and it lived up to their expectations. Our full report will continue to drop on our <a href=" https://www.facebook.com/orderoftheamberdie/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> and in our PDF of <a href=" http://bit.ly/1HyklAy " target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><i>The Giantslayer Endeavor</i></a>; until then, I did want to leave everyone with some supplemental aids and brief tips they could use during their playthrough of this adventure.</p>
<p><b>Part 1:</b> The caldera scene is too large to draw out entirely, so you’ll want to decide ahead of time how to represent where all the forces are located in the caldera each round. I used two sets of volcanic-looking map tiles (<a href=" http://paizo.com/products/btpy8oxo?GameMastery-Map-Pack-Hellscapes" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Hellscapes Map Pack</a>) for a local grid showing party placement, and then used the rest of the large table we played on for a more general understanding of where the scorpions, tower, and ash giants were. The carnivorous crystals were too slow to be any consequence in this enormous encounter. One player assisted with tracking distances between creatures on the board, and we saw good use of two gargantuan miniatures here as well. GMs might find it useful to check out photos of how we played through part one, and these can be found in the “Grid Gallery” section of the <a href="dropbox link" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Giantslayer Endeavor</a> document, and also on our <a href=" https://www.facebook.com/orderoftheamberdie/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a>. </p>
<p><b>Part 2:</b> This is a rare opportunity as GM to experience running a castle built on a 15' scale. Drawing out entire levels of the castle for your players is tough due to its massive size; most levels would take 3 interconnected Chessex Mondomats to complete. While I was tempted to throw down another 26 hours to complete something like the <a href=" http://static3.paizo.com/image/content/Blog/20150712-Photo6.jpg " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tomb of Skirkatla</a>, a short prep schedule due to GenCon 2015 prevented that option. One of my players always brings lots of dungeon trappings to sessions, so we decided to try and get a little creative for this one. Dungeon Tiles or Chessex Mats were used for a floor base, along with some plastic wall pieces from an old game called Crossbows and Catapults, and Dwarven Forge accessories provided icing. The <a href=" http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lhx3?Giantslayer-Marathon-Part-6" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Paizo Blog</a> has a couple of examples, and if you want to see more, the Grid Gallery and Facebook from Part 1 above are good places to look. </p>
<p><b>Part 3:</b> At the end of our campaign, it was Liniratis in her chamber that heard Volstus's call and was waiting invisible for the party to descend into her domain. The naga unleashed a prismatic spray on the surprise round, then another to follow that up on round 1 as her gaze began to affect everyone. Liniratis backed up and used <i>wall of force</i> to seal off the lead melee character (Crowe the Bloodrager) who had moved to engage, and was able to eliminate him in single combat by employing the wicker baskets. This can be quite a fight if she is aware of the party's approach as they clamber down Ironcloud Keep's gigantic stairs and into her chamber. As the author notes on p. 49, she has likely already used prying eyes to gain plenty of information about the PCs, which can make her ambush that much more deadly. I did have some concern about the wicker baskets, as their size on the map looked more like 5' square than "huge" as described by the author (p. 49). Lastly, the location of the sixth wicker basket is not marked on the map. Going with Leati's description and not the map, you'll want to place the sixth basket ahead of time and probably allow Liniratis to squeeze into them freely. A play-by-play of our TPK and campaign end is located in the same places mentioned in Parts 1 and 2 above. Our party was built to slay giants, and Liniratis's stack of abilitities was the perfect storm that struck every weakness we had. </p>
<p><b>Part 4:</b> At first, Volstus was simply too much for our group; they found it nearly futile to challenge him in the sky where he was strongest, so the party opted for a more unconventional approach and tried to lure him into the castle by descending through the observatory. The Storm Tyrant then called on all of his remaining commanders to hunt the party down, which made for a considerably difficult and unexpected situation for our group. As GM, you'll want to be prepared to describe exactly how any surviving commanders join the fight with Volstus. When our group first fled back down into the castle, things got a little hectic because it was important for me to be precise in tracking which commanders responded first and where they would likely be in the castle at any given time. In situations like these, I sometimes call a short break in the action to sort things out and make sure I play everything right—this is the end of your campaign after all, and slowing the pace down even at a crucial moment has always been preferred by my players to an accidental death or especially TPK (which is on the line here). <i>Storm of Vengeance</i> seemed useful for stopping missiles and arrows, but it left most of the heavy lifting to Akazerath because of the concentration requirement (not to mention it causes other problems for both the dragon and Volstus). From reading the tactics section, it seemed like the author intended him to be able to unleash a lot more of his abilities quickly and in the early rounds, but this is hampered by having to concentrate on <i>storm of vengeance</i>. </p>
<p>Now that we've finished this AP (and licking our wounds), all of us would love to hear stories of how other groups fared against Volstus. Please reach out to us on <a href=" http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s4qc?The-Giantslayer-Endeavor#1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Giantslayer Endeavor Thread</a> or on our <a href=" https://www.facebook.com/orderoftheamberdie/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Facebook</a> and tell us how it went!</p>
<p><b>Final Notes:</b> </p>
<p>-The throne was not placed on the map for room F43; our photos of this battle show where we placed it according to the room's description. </p>
<p>-Tito Leati mentons on p. 21 that you might want to impose climb checks for ascending staircases; even a DC 5 climb for medium creatures will still slow players down considerably (despite accelerated climb) and force them to acquire an appreciation for how large the castle really is.</p>
<p>-If the castle is already moving fast, make sure to consider the speed of the castle during Yaoguai battle (p.22), as each round the Yaoguai or any flying PCs should be shifted accordingly on the grid to account for the moving castle.</p>
<p>Hope this helps some of you in your run of <i>Shadow of the Storm Tyrant</i>, and good luck!</p>
<p>Adam
<br />
GM
<br />
<a href=" http://bit.ly/1HyklAy" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Amber Die Dropbox</a>
<br />
<a href=" https://www.facebook.com/orderoftheamberdie/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Amber Die Facebook</a></p>Giantslayer Fans:
Our group played a marathon of Shadow of the Storm Tyrant last summer and was able to reach the end and face Volstus. The players were excited to finally explore the cloud castle they had heard of during the AP, and it lived up to their expectations. Our full report will continue to drop on our Facebook and in our PDF of The Giantslayer Endeavor; until then, I did want to leave everyone with some supplemental aids and brief tips they could use during their playthrough of...Adam Smith (Order of the Amber Die)2016-01-17T21:26:19ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Lasshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#182016-01-09T01:16:27Z2016-01-09T01:16:27Z<p>My players made it to the engine room, took out their adamantine weapons and demolished the engine. So Ironcloud Keep crashed to the bottom of the Caldera and now its survivors, not all the PCs survived the explosion and fall either, are pretty mad. It would seem that my players have managed to by pass a great many encounters now.</p>My players made it to the engine room, took out their adamantine weapons and demolished the engine. So Ironcloud Keep crashed to the bottom of the Caldera and now its survivors, not all the PCs survived the explosion and fall either, are pretty mad. It would seem that my players have managed to by pass a great many encounters now.Lass2016-01-09T01:16:27ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Yakmanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#172015-12-08T15:51:09Z2015-12-08T15:51:09Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">grandpoobah wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Blowing up the Castle:
</p>
(A realistic scenario):</p>
<p>- if the PCs kill the Black Scorpion at B1 before it severs the one of the two remaining chains, then the castle is secured by two chains. The adventure mentions the castle can do a forced take-off if only one chain remains (it makes no mention of how easy it is to move with two chains)</p>
<p>- With the castle stuck over the Caldera, or at least slowed down, the PCs could reach the bomb within 10-20 minutes of the start of Chapter 6.</p>
<p>- There is no reason to attack the giants in Area E, they cannot hurt the PCs at range (the ballista attacks are laughable at range). The PCs could easily use Fly magic to ascend to the castle, then approach the landing platforms at F2 in 10 rounds are less (with Fly, Haste, Mass Fly, Airwalk, or some combination).</p>
<p>- Once inside, it will not take long to clear the lower level and find the bomb. The toughest fight will likely be the phase spiders (because of their phase in/out attack), but high level PCs can have wall of force, blade barrier, and readied actions.</p>
<p>- Once they find the bomb, how hard is it to set off? Summon a hound archon, tell him to count to 15, then Dimension door to landing platforms (F2) and fly out.</p>
<p>This could take as little as 20-30 minutes. The castle has a maximum speed of 500 miles per hour. It cannot possibly go any farther than 250 miles from the caldera in that time.</p>
<p>This doesn't have to end the campaign, either. If anything, it makes it more interesting. The PCs are somewhat unfairly forced to do the final 1/3 of book 5 and all of book 6 in the span of a day or two, possibly not even resting or getting any gear (where are they going to sell loot and buy things in that time? let alone craft or level up properly). </p>
<p>A new second half of book 6 is now fighting through the ruins of IronCloud keep at the base of the caldera, hunting down the last remnants of Volstus' cadre and of course, taking down Volstus himself.</p>
<p>At the end of book 5, the PCs likely know all the details... </blockquote><p>Well, it's not just Volstus and his buddies.
<p>Remember, although you've presumably killed the King Fire Giant in 5, he's still got a few hundred followers in the mountain. You blow up the Castle, it falls into the caldera, they are going to come up to figure out what happened. Remember, 6 happens just minutes after 5 - and 5 leaves behind a few pretty strong bad guys and a whole army of fire giants.</p>
<p>So, the party is stuck in the Caldera, fighting off Volstus and his Red Dragon, that cloud giant and his roc, whichever of Volstus' people in the cloud castle who survived the fall, AND the dozens of fire giants who are coming up to avenge their king? </p>
<p>Nasty.</p>
<p>I read 6 more as "Escape from Angry Fire Giant Army" rather than "Get Volstus".</p>grandpoobah wrote:Blowing up the Castle:
(A realistic scenario):- if the PCs kill the Black Scorpion at B1 before it severs the one of the two remaining chains, then the castle is secured by two chains. The adventure mentions the castle can do a forced take-off if only one chain remains (it makes no mention of how easy it is to move with two chains)
- With the castle stuck over the Caldera, or at least slowed down, the PCs could reach the bomb within 10-20 minutes of the start of Chapter
...Yakman2015-12-08T15:51:09ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)hewhocaveshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#162019-06-13T01:27:26Z2015-11-30T21:13:43Z<p>I think I'm going to remove the bomb. Let the PCs fight their way up through the castle as it flies towards civilization. If Avistan loses a city or two, oh well lol.</p>I think I'm going to remove the bomb. Let the PCs fight their way up through the castle as it flies towards civilization. If Avistan loses a city or two, oh well lol.hewhocaves2015-11-30T21:13:43ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)grandpoobahhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#152019-06-13T01:27:13Z2015-11-06T22:58:48Z<p>Blowing up the Castle:
<br />
(A realistic scenario):</p>
<p>- if the PCs kill the Black Scorpion at B1 before it severs the one of the two remaining chains, then the castle is secured by two chains. The adventure mentions the castle can do a forced take-off if only one chain remains (it makes no mention of how easy it is to move with two chains)</p>
<p>- With the castle stuck over the Caldera, or at least slowed down, the PCs could reach the bomb within 10-20 minutes of the start of Chapter 6.</p>
<p>- There is no reason to attack the giants in Area E, they cannot hurt the PCs at range (the ballista attacks are laughable at range). The PCs could easily use Fly magic to ascend to the castle, then approach the landing platforms at F2 in 10 rounds are less (with Fly, Haste, Mass Fly, Airwalk, or some combination).</p>
<p>- Once inside, it will not take long to clear the lower level and find the bomb. The toughest fight will likely be the phase spiders (because of their phase in/out attack), but high level PCs can have wall of force, blade barrier, and readied actions.</p>
<p>- Once they find the bomb, how hard is it to set off? Summon a hound archon, tell him to count to 15, then Dimension door to landing platforms (F2) and fly out.</p>
<p>This could take as little as 20-30 minutes. The castle has a maximum speed of 500 miles per hour. It cannot possibly go any farther than 250 miles from the caldera in that time.</p>
<p>This doesn't have to end the campaign, either. If anything, it makes it more interesting. The PCs are somewhat unfairly forced to do the final 1/3 of book 5 and all of book 6 in the span of a day or two, possibly not even resting or getting any gear (where are they going to sell loot and buy things in that time? let alone craft or level up properly). </p>
<p>A new second half of book 6 is now fighting through the ruins of IronCloud keep at the base of the caldera, hunting down the last remnants of Volstus' cadre and of course, taking down Volstus himself.</p>
<p>At the end of book 5, the PCs likely know all the details about the bomb, where it is likely located, and how it works. So it's reasonable to assume that intentionally setting it off is a viable strategy - and one that should not be shot down instantly. </p>
<p>Heck, the first few chapters of the AP somewhat foreshadow the importance of Craft Alchemy in this AP - it would be nice to have someone with a high Alchemy check at the end re-wire the bomb to detonate in 30 seconds while the PCs run out the side. That could make for an interesting series of encounters - where the PCs are fighting their way off the engineering level, knowing that the bomb will go off in a few rounds....</p>
<p>And regarding the dragon Naximarra - the adventure makes her useless. She is pretty useless in Chapter 4, but at least that book alluded to her "helping" later. The sidebar indicates she won't even show up to the final battle.. She shows up after the adventure ends and maybe destroys an artifact for you? (if you want it destroyed...). </p>
<p>My thought was if the PCs could give her a Mind Blank and Greater Teleport scroll, then she could arrive suddenly without Volstus' knowledge. Since Mind Blank is not stopped by artifacts (in fact, wish spells cannot be used to learn about the target), it's arguable that Volstus cannot use the Orb to detect her presence within 100 miles while Mindblank is up. And of course, it grants a +8 bonus to will saves (which includes the Orb's dominate effect) - so I'd think she'd be inclined to help. All she has to do is fly up to Volstus and breath on the orb - then it explodes, subjecting volstus to that 20d10 breath weapon, and leaving him next to two VERY ANGRY red dragons....</p>Blowing up the Castle:
(A realistic scenario):
- if the PCs kill the Black Scorpion at B1 before it severs the one of the two remaining chains, then the castle is secured by two chains. The adventure mentions the castle can do a forced take-off if only one chain remains (it makes no mention of how easy it is to move with two chains)
- With the castle stuck over the Caldera, or at least slowed down, the PCs could reach the bomb within 10-20 minutes of the start of Chapter 6.
- There is no...grandpoobah2015-11-06T22:58:48ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Howard197https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#142015-11-02T21:37:44Z2015-11-02T21:37:44Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>You can entirely naturally run into this thing literally minutes into the adventure, which starts in the middle of the Mindspin mountains. "Oh, it is automatically always over populated areas" is not a particularly satisfying answer.</blockquote><p>Don't forget that Volstus is now flying this castle towards over Belkzen towards the capital. Remember that the PCs are supposed to have spent time in, maybe grown up in, Trunau. You remember Trunau, right? The city where everyone is raised from birth to fight constantly against the Orc menace? Some of the PCs up in that cloud castle probably have a little hope knife in the back of their packs. All they have to do is look out a window at the stars or down at the ground and some basic geography checks are going to tell them roughly where they are, right over the lands of some marauding Orc tribe. Blowing up the castle over Belkzen and having it rain down on orc warriors isn't going to count as collateral damage to a Trunaun, it's going to count as a bonus.Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:You can entirely naturally run into this thing literally minutes into the adventure, which starts in the middle of the Mindspin mountains. "Oh, it is automatically always over populated areas" is not a particularly satisfying answer.
Don't forget that Volstus is now flying this castle towards over Belkzen towards the capital. Remember that the PCs are supposed to have spent time in, maybe grown up in, Trunau. You remember Trunau, right? The city where everyone...Howard1972015-11-02T21:37:44ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Mort the Cleverly Namedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#132015-11-02T21:24:57Z2015-08-10T17:09:20Z<p>And "conserving resources" is not the same as a castle on an invasion plan that has more than two levels worth of encounters and will likely take days to clear unless you are tricked out enough to (without rest, two levels down) beat the boss and three captains who are stated to (through mechanisms I am not clear on) join him in the final battle.</p>
<p>It straight said this would be a "virtually unwinnable encounter" or the like and you should discourage PCs from fighting the leader without taking them out, but I couldn't find any mechanisms it set up to do that. I can certainly make up those mechanisms, just like making up how the castle reacts to getting to a populated area or the piles of corpses left by PCs hitting and running over a few days, but because I can fix it doesn't mean the adventure is particularly useful to start, and as I said from the start seems more like a "set piece" than a proper "adventure" meant to be played. I'm not particularly interested in paying money for an adventure I would, in the course of entirely reasonable and likely actions by players or enemies, end up having to mostly write myself.</p>
<p>I was hoping there was something specific I had missed, but otherwise I don't think this is an adventure I'll bother picking up.</p>And "conserving resources" is not the same as a castle on an invasion plan that has more than two levels worth of encounters and will likely take days to clear unless you are tricked out enough to (without rest, two levels down) beat the boss and three captains who are stated to (through mechanisms I am not clear on) join him in the final battle.
It straight said this would be a "virtually unwinnable encounter" or the like and you should discourage PCs from fighting the leader without taking...Mort the Cleverly Named2015-08-10T17:09:20ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Revanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#122015-08-10T05:04:08Z2015-08-10T05:04:08Z<p>1st level PCs encountering endgame CR creatures is •not• the same thing as high level PCs having to actually thing about conserving their resources.</p>1st level PCs encountering endgame CR creatures is *not* the same thing as high level PCs having to actually thing about conserving their resources.Revan2015-08-10T05:04:08ZRe: Forums: Giantslayer: Shadow of the Storm Tyrant (GM Reference)Mort the Cleverly Namedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvsg?Shadow-of-the-Storm-Tyrant#112015-11-02T21:22:32Z2015-08-10T04:43:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Revan wrote:</div><blockquote> If the PCs goal is to rain a destructive storm of debris down on the land blow, than sure, they could set off the bomb. Heroism for herois's sake, however, is likely to be concerned about collateral damage.</blockquote><p>You can entirely naturally run into this thing literally minutes into the adventure, which starts in the middle of the Mindspin mountains. "Oh, it is automatically always over populated areas" is not a particularly satisfying answer. Also, by the time the castle actually is over populated areas things will change drastically inside because of the whole "invading" thing, and again the castle's (as far as I could find, and would still hope I missed information about) static nature makes it seem not so much an "adventure" as a "set piece."
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>As for how the post find the time to rest... Well, that's their problem isn't it? If Golarion's latest batch of superheroes actually have to think about how they're fighting the bad guys, that strikes me as a good thing.</blockquote><p>It is an adventure designed to be run and played. You could also have the storm giants attack in book one and say "welp, that is their problem," but it would be a terrible adventure. Similarly, writing an entirely static castle without regards to how an adventure will actually work in it makes for a less useful product.Revan wrote:If the PCs goal is to rain a destructive storm of debris down on the land blow, than sure, they could set off the bomb. Heroism for herois's sake, however, is likely to be concerned about collateral damage.
You can entirely naturally run into this thing literally minutes into the adventure, which starts in the middle of the Mindspin mountains. "Oh, it is automatically always over populated areas" is not a particularly satisfying answer. Also, by the time the castle actually is...Mort the Cleverly Named2015-08-10T04:43:06Z