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My players found a white dragon egg, and stowed it in the magically temperature controlled food wagon they have. And promptly forgot about it.
My plan is for the newly hatched baby dragon to come running out chased by one of the NPCs that travel with the party. (it's a modified Jade Regent game) The newly hatched white dragon (tiny sized) will then climb one of the PCs and make faces at the person chasing it. My question is this too railroady or is it okay because it would be an amusing event that wouldn't end up hurting anyone or causing any lasting PC damage.
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White Dragon = Chaotic Evil
Kill it ASAP.
Those are the only rails I ride, baby.
They are totally Tiny, though, Eltacolibre. Says so right here.
Doesn't seem railroady at all, and as Eltacolibre said it would be a wyrmling. Keep in mind that it's chaotic evil by nature (though there are a myriad of threads that go back and forth on alignments and what it means for creatures born to adoptive parents). But if the PCs want to keep it, they'll have to work hard to shake it from it's destructive nature.
At base it has an Int of 6, so as roleplaying goes, it would probably act like a young child of maybe the age of 6 or 7.
My players found a white dragon egg, and stowed it in the magically temperature controlled food wagon they have. And promptly forgot about it.
My plan is for the newly hatched baby dragon to come running out chased by one of the NPCs that travel with the party. (it's a modified Jade Regent game) The newly hatched white dragon (tiny sized) will then climb one of the PCs and make faces at the person chasing it. My question is this too railroady or is it okay because it would be an amusing event that wouldn't end up hurting anyone or causing any lasting PC damage.
Provided that you either A) get an OK from the PC you are planning to have the dragon climb or B) give them a chance to avoid being climbed (in which case the baby dragon could always climb on of the wagons or something) - I think you are good.
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White Dragon = Chaotic Evil
Kill it ASAP.
Those are the only rails I ride, baby.
They are totally Tiny, though, Eltacolibre. Says so right here.
Huh I always forget how small white dragons are, good to know.
Huh I always forget how small white dragons are, good to know.White Dragon = Chaotic Evil
Kill it ASAP.
Those are the only rails I ride, baby.
They are totally Tiny, though, Eltacolibre. Says so right here.
Yeah, I always re-remember when I look up dragons. That Touch AC/Dex, man...
why would it be considered railroading to have a dragon climb a PC? I'm failing to see any issues this causes, or why it would be considered railroading. If you're that worried pick someone with a poor reflex save or low dex. Also remember that they'd be considered flat-footed. So there's a myriad of reasons why the dragon would succeed at that.
Dragons come out of the egg Evil, ready to kill from birth. I don't lose sleep over it.
Well, the GM might be running dragons a bit different than a typical bad guy. Baby dragons might be more baby than dragon, it's their world.
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The party is Mythic rank 7 and level 14 (and about 800,000 over normal wealth level). This cute little thing isn't going to be a threat to them. They took the egg knowing it was a white dragon egg. They've already adopted a baby goblin and raised her as a follower of Serenrae. It's also only int 6 (a little smarter than the party's warpriest)...
And baby white dragons look like little crocodiles with wings!
I also went with a white dragon (over other chromatics) because of the existance of the lazakh. (White dragons who are smarter and often end up in the service of blues, bronzes, or brass dragons)
MS, what is railroading?
It might be your concern is legitimate, and we're just disagreeing on terms.
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My definition of railroading is "Forcing the players to make a certain decision."
Example
My character is ignored/not liked by most the party (the players were fine with my character) and was only hired on for a job. When the job was over we got a plot hook to save the world. My character had no reason to do that, to follow that plot hook. When my character argued against it the GM said we had to follow the hook. That is railroading.
Something not railroading
An earthquake happens and your wagon/donkey falls in.
A dragon attacks and burns down the village you're staying in.
A city doesn't do business with people that haven't been officially accepted into the brotherhood.
even getting captured by Really high level characters and sold to an arena could be appropriate and not a railroad if the PC don't normally set up super alarms for camping.
These are things that are happening that the PC's respond to. In all of these they are free to decide how they respond to what's going on. Only if you force them against their character's personality to do something would I call it railroading.
Forcing any sort of thing to happen to the players, around the players or involving the players (even if it's an NPC doing it)?MS, what is railroading?
It might be your concern is legitimate, and we're just disagreeing on terms.
I think this may be too open a definition. Deciding what happens to the party is, basically, the GM's job. Defining what the party does in response to what happens is railroading. The difference is whether or not it's removing agency that should reasonably rest with the PCs.
The PCs can't decide whether or not an egg hatches, so there's no loss of agency there. The PC's can't decide what the wyrmling dragon does once it's hatched -- no loss of agency. But the PC's can decide what to do with the wyrmling dragon.
If you tell me that I can't kill and eat the dragon because "Do you really kill babies just because they are evil? How evil is it to kill a baby?",... that is railroading.
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Forcing any sort of thing to happen to the players, around the players or involving the players (even if it's an NPC doing it)?MS, what is railroading?
It might be your concern is legitimate, and we're just disagreeing on terms.
I think this may be too open a definition. Deciding what happens to the party is, basically, the GM's job. Defining what the party does in response to what happens is railroading. The difference is whether or not it's removing agency that should reasonably rest with the PCs.
The PCs can't decide whether or not an egg hatches, so there's no loss of agency there. The PC's can't decide what the wyrmling dragon does once it's hatched -- no loss of agency. But the PC's can decide what to do with the wyrmling dragon.
If you tell me that I can't kill and eat the dragon because "Do you really kill babies just because they are evil? How evil is it to kill a baby?",... that is railroading.
I will remind them of their alignments before they do potentially out of alignment things. Or remind them of their ability scores if the int 48 (mythic game) alch decides to do something abysmally stupid. (I'll say something like, your character would know that doing that is very stupid).
They can then choose to do it or not.
Acting for the players is railroading. Acting upon the players is your job.
Even forcing the players to some specific action might not be referred to as railroading if the consequences weren't far-reaching and the forced choice was minor and/or consistent with the character's actions so far. The term "railroading" is usually reserved for actions or choices forced on the players that have onerous consequences and that are considerably contrary to the player's will.
The only two parts of this that might constitute railroading under the most liberal scope of application of the term is that you are denying the player an AoO for a creature leaving a threatened square. Since he'll be flat-footed it's probably okay to deny him the attack of opportunity, and since you're the DM, you're really just arbitrating the outcome of a CMB roll (if even, depending on how the dice fall).
As a DM, I think that's your prerogative.
Player Enjoyment > Story > DM's Dice Roll
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Forcing any sort of thing to happen to the players, around the players or involving the players (even if it's an NPC doing it)?MS, what is railroading?
It might be your concern is legitimate, and we're just disagreeing on terms.
I think this may be too open a definition. Deciding what happens to the party is, basically, the GM's job. Defining what the party does in response to what happens is railroading. The difference is whether or not it's removing agency that should reasonably rest with the PCs.
The PCs can't decide whether or not an egg hatches, so there's no loss of agency there. The PC's can't decide what the wyrmling dragon does once it's hatched -- no loss of agency. But the PC's can decide what to do with the wyrmling dragon.
If you tell me that I can't kill and eat the dragon because "Do you really kill babies just because they are evil? How evil is it to kill a baby?",... that is railroading.
I will remind them of their alignments before they do potentially out of alignment things. Or remind them of their ability scores if the int 48 (mythic game) alch decides to do something abysmally stupid. (I'll say something like, your character would know that doing that is very stupid).
They can then choose to do it or not.
Well, it doesn't sound like railroading to me. However, it does sound like you about to fall into the "Oldest Alignment Pitfall Ever"(TM). Please don't subject your players to the "is killing an evil race baby evil" conundrum; nobody wins when that happens, everybody loses.
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Well, it doesn't sound like railroading to me. However, it does sound like you about to fall into the "Oldest Alignment Pitfall Ever"(TM). Please don't subject your players to the "is killing an evil race baby evil" conundrum; nobody wins when that happens, everybody loses.Forcing any sort of thing to happen to the players, around the players or involving the players (even if it's an NPC doing it)?MS, what is railroading?
It might be your concern is legitimate, and we're just disagreeing on terms.
I think this may be too open a definition. Deciding what happens to the party is, basically, the GM's job. Defining what the party does in response to what happens is railroading. The difference is whether or not it's removing agency that should reasonably rest with the PCs.
The PCs can't decide whether or not an egg hatches, so there's no loss of agency there. The PC's can't decide what the wyrmling dragon does once it's hatched -- no loss of agency. But the PC's can decide what to do with the wyrmling dragon.
If you tell me that I can't kill and eat the dragon because "Do you really kill babies just because they are evil? How evil is it to kill a baby?",... that is railroading.
I will remind them of their alignments before they do potentially out of alignment things. Or remind them of their ability scores if the int 48 (mythic game) alch decides to do something abysmally stupid. (I'll say something like, your character would know that doing that is very stupid).
They can then choose to do it or not.
They're the ones who decided to keep a white dragon egg
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They're the ones who decided to keep a white dragon eggWell, it doesn't sound like railroading to me. However, it does sound like you about to fall into the "Oldest Alignment Pitfall Ever"(TM). Please don't subject your players to the "is killing an evil race baby evil" conundrum; nobody wins when that happens, everybody loses.I will remind them of their alignments before they do potentially out of alignment things. Or remind them of their ability scores if the int 48 (mythic game) alch decides to do something abysmally stupid. (I'll say something like, your character would know that doing that is very stupid).
They can then choose to do it or not.
I realize that, however you are the one who presented the (potentially comical) scenario of an NPC treeing the dragon on one of the PCs. Now there are two realistic outcomes:
1. The players go "Awwww. Arn't you so cute!" and he becomes some sort of team mascot.
2. The players realize that a CR2 monster defined as being always Chaotic Evil has just climbed a PC and then proceed to kill it with extreme prejudice.
Both of these outcomes are completely valid. If you are not okay with outcome 2 happening and try to use the "remember your alignment" schtick to stop it, you should jettison this scenario and think of something else. You are setting yourself up for failure otherwise.
My 2cp: I often have what I call "dramatic scenes" wherein amusing stuff occurs to set the scene, get a laugh, get everyone to loosen up, let the bad guy monologue.
So long as it doesn't put the PCs at a disadvantage, then no sense of agency is broken. No harm no foul.
I once had a villain noserafu make an escape despite the efforts of the party. I explained "He's protected by plot armor" and that got a belly laugh out of everyone. They understood.
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Dragons are never defenseless babies.