What are the biggest trap options?


Advice

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I would agree, but with some exceptions that I mentioned earlier.

Getting the higher damage die isn't worth it, but some other things are. My favorites are the ones that combine things like reach+18-20/x2 crit range or reach+double.

And if you're only proficient with simple weapons, some exotic weapons are just so much better that it's worth it.


Kukris are pretty amazing for TWF and Butterfly Sting stuff.

For the most part, though, you're right about getting exotics from gods or races.

Scarab Sages

Kukris are also martial now. They haven't been exotic since 3.0.


Consider my mind blown. Exotic weapon proficiency is now even worse, and apparently always has been for PF.


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Consider my mind blown. Exotic weapon proficiency is now even worse, and apparently always has been for PF.

PF also nerfed spiked chain because it wasn't a bad weapon to spend a feat on unlike all the other exotic weapons.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Marroar Gellantara wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Consider my mind blown. Exotic weapon proficiency is now even worse, and apparently always has been for PF.
PF also nerfed spiked chain because it wasn't a bad weapon to spend a feat on unlike all the other exotic weapons.

And then put it back in with the Meteor Hammer.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
Actual Traps: Kukri unless you do a lot of bonus damage or are a dedicated critfisher.
The kukri is the optimal choice for a TWF'er, I'd hardly call it a trap.

Kukri is superior to shortsword if you have +20 or more in static damage (+10 if both are keen) but that isn't likely for any TWFer below 10th level, especially in the off hand.

Admittedly there's less than a point in it either way, so it's not a big trap, but people seem to get excited about kukris because Eastern* or something.

Similar comments apply to scimitars, but the case for scimitar over longsword is much better because +20 damage is quite achievable (2H Str build, paying for 1 weapon, etc).

When the Stunning Critical and whatnot feats come in, then yes, you want an 18-20 weapon. But that's high-level 'dedicated critfisher' stuff.

*Nepal is east of here, anyway. So is Persia or wherever scimitars come from.

Sovereign Court

Marroar Gellantara wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Consider my mind blown. Exotic weapon proficiency is now even worse, and apparently always has been for PF.
PF also nerfed spiked chain because it wasn't a bad weapon to spend a feat on unlike all the other exotic weapons.

There were crazily broken builds in 3.5 for spiked chain. But they were also based around the 3.5 versions of Spring Attack (didn't have "You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn." in it) and the 3.5 version of AOOs (could get multiple against the same opponent for moving out of squares in a single turn).

And the Pathfinder weapons which have both reach and not reach are so badly described as to be undecipherable. (except perhaps for the whip) I certainly wouldn't try using one of them in PFS - too much table variation.

Though actually - exotic weapon bastard sword was awesome in 3.5. Not for itself - but for a dip in the Exotic Weapon Master presitge class which let you get x2 strength damage when wielding a one-handed exotic weapon in both hands.


I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Liberty's Edge

Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)


StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)

Um, can you use "Slashing Grace" maybe?

Personally i am more interested in trying to get the dueling sword to use than the Katana, but thats just for flavor ^^;

Sovereign Court

Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

It's mostly bad because going scimitar for Dervish Dance is so much better. The only way to use dex for the katana would be to dip into Swashbuckler and use Slashing Grace. But it's not worth a dip outside of Magus when you can just use Dervish Dance for the same effect in 90% of cases sans a single point of damage.

(Not that Eldrich Magus with a Swashbuckler dip wouldn't be a decent build.)

Liberty's Edge

Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)

Um, can you use "Slashing Grace" maybe?

Personally i am more interested in trying to get the dueling sword to use than the Katana, but thats just for flavor ^^;

Doesn't give you dex to attack unless you also dip Swashbuckler.

EDIT: Also still requires 13 str for power attack since Katana isn't a ligh weapon for using Piranha Strike.


StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)

Um, can you use "Slashing Grace" maybe?

Personally i am more interested in trying to get the dueling sword to use than the Katana, but thats just for flavor ^^;
Doesn't give you dex to attack unless you also dip Swashbuckler.

Doesnt say so on the feat:

Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

Doesnt say you need a class feature now does it?

Sovereign Court

Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)

Um, can you use "Slashing Grace" maybe?

Personally i am more interested in trying to get the dueling sword to use than the Katana, but thats just for flavor ^^;

The dueling sword can use Slashing Grace effectively without the Swashbuckler dip. (The only weapon that can I believe.) However, the extra point of damage is still inferior to the extra crit of the scimitar when you're doing an extra 5d6 damage from Shocking Grasp through it. Especially since a magus is generally going to keep one hand empty for spell combat anyway.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)

Um, can you use "Slashing Grace" maybe?

Personally i am more interested in trying to get the dueling sword to use than the Katana, but thats just for flavor ^^;
Doesn't give you dex to attack unless you also dip Swashbuckler.

Doesnt say so on the feat:

Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

Doesnt say you need a class feature now does it?

It does not grant you dex to hit. Probably a typo a couple posts up saying damage.


Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)

Um, can you use "Slashing Grace" maybe?

Personally i am more interested in trying to get the dueling sword to use than the Katana, but thats just for flavor ^^;
Doesn't give you dex to attack unless you also dip Swashbuckler.

Doesnt say so on the feat:

Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

Doesnt say you need a class feature now does it?

Slashing Grace gives dex-to-damage but does not give dex-to-hit. It's terribly misleading, I know.


Xethik wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)

Um, can you use "Slashing Grace" maybe?

Personally i am more interested in trying to get the dueling sword to use than the Katana, but thats just for flavor ^^;
Doesn't give you dex to attack unless you also dip Swashbuckler.

Doesnt say so on the feat:

Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

Doesnt say you need a class feature now does it?

It does not grant you dex to hit. Probably a typo a couple posts up saying damage.

Actually, the prequirements are Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus in that weapon you want to use, so if you pick Slashing grace you already have your dex to hit.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dracoknight wrote:
Xethik wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Dracoknight wrote:

I wonder, is Katana magus bad only because of the exotic prof feat you need?

If so, would Kensai redeem that factor?

Yes and no. Kensai cannot wear armor, so it should have at least some dex. But it also can't dex-to-damage with a katana, and even if it could it still needs 13 str to get Power Attack since Piranha Strike doesn't work with a katana.

So not great, but workable if you go the strength route and nab some AC-boosting spells. Something like 16, 14, 12, 14, 10, 8 (with +2 human bonus to str, 15 point buy).

(It would work well at my table, but only due to heavy homebrew surrounding dex as a combat style.)

Um, can you use "Slashing Grace" maybe?

Personally i am more interested in trying to get the dueling sword to use than the Katana, but thats just for flavor ^^;
Doesn't give you dex to attack unless you also dip Swashbuckler.

Doesnt say so on the feat:

Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

Doesnt say you need a class feature now does it?

It does not grant you dex to hit. Probably a typo a couple posts up saying damage.
Actually, the prequirements are Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus in that weapon you want to use, so if you pick Slashing grace you already have your dex to hit.

Katanas are not finessable. You can cry now.


Weapon Finesse only gives dex-to-hit for light weapons, the rapier, the Elven Curved Blade, and the Aldori Dueling Sword. Of these, only the Dueling Sword qualifies as a valid target for Slashing Grace.


DominusMegadeus wrote:

Katanas are not finessable. You can cry now.

Well, if that was said a little earlier, that would have ended the discussion right there.

If you cant get dex to hit with a Katana, why would you even go Katana/Dex?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You can, but only through 1 level of Swashbuckler or Daring Champion Cavalier

Sovereign Court

DominusMegadeus wrote:


Katanas are not finessable. You can cry now.

They are with a dip into Swashbuckler or Daring Cavalier. (As I mentioned in my above post.)

Edit: Ninja'd


Katanas are badass, dextrous fighters are badass, they should work together.

They don't. It's a sad state of affairs.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:


Katanas are not finessable. You can cry now.

They are with a dip into Swashbuckler or Daring Cavalier. (As I mentioned in my above post.)

Edit: Ninja'd

Just how do they make a katana finesseable with that level dip? you just get weapon finesse for free... sorry if i ask a hell of a lot of stupid questions :S

Wait wait wait.... its because the slashing grace feat makes katana a piercing weapon, and thus the finesse from Swashbuckler makes it finesseable?... Man my reading comprehension sucks tonight!


Dracoknight wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:


Katanas are not finessable. You can cry now.

They are with a dip into Swashbuckler or Daring Cavalier. (As I mentioned in my above post.)

Edit: Ninja'd

Just how do they make a katana finesseable with that level dip? you just get weapon finesse for free... sorry if i ask a hell of a lot of stupid questions :S

Don't be, the whole distinction between light and one-handed weapons has caused a lot of grief and confusion. No harm in getting educated.

Sovereign Court

Dracoknight wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:


Katanas are not finessable. You can cry now.

They are with a dip into Swashbuckler or Daring Cavalier. (As I mentioned in my above post.)

Edit: Ninja'd

Just how do they make a katana finesseable with that level dip? you just get weapon finesse for free... sorry if i ask a hell of a lot of stupid questions :S

Because the Swashbuckler's Finesse is different from Weapon Finesse. It works for all light/one-handed piercing weapons - not just those usually finessable. Slashing Grace allows it to work for all one-handed slashing weapons in addition to allowing dex to damage with said one-handed slashing weapons. (scimitar/longsword/katana/battleaxe/bastard sword/dwarven waraxe/sawtoothed sabres etc)


Dracoknight wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:


Katanas are not finessable. You can cry now.

They are with a dip into Swashbuckler or Daring Cavalier. (As I mentioned in my above post.)

Edit: Ninja'd

Just how do they make a katana finesseable with that level dip? you just get weapon finesse for free... sorry if i ask a hell of a lot of stupid questions :S

Swashbucklers and Daring Champion Cavaliers have a class feature that changes how Weapon Finesse works so it applies to one-handed piercing weapons. Slashing Grace lets you treat a one-handed slashing weapon as a one-handed piercing weapon for the purpose of feats and class features, so the katana with both a Swash level and Slashing Grace gets dex-to-hit and damage.

Don't feel bad for not understanding it, everything about this crap is convoluted and far more confusing than it should be.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Weapon Finesse only gives dex-to-hit for light weapons, the rapier, the Elven Curved Blade, and the Aldori Dueling Sword. Of these, only the Dueling Sword qualifies as a valid target for Slashing Grace.

Also the Whip. Which also qualifies for Slashing Grace.

But yes-- Katana Dex is bad for non-Swashbuckler/Daring Champion classes because you have to dip one of the two, or you cannot get dex-to-hit. If you're running another straight martial (Slayer, for example) this isn't bad, but when you hit a class like the Magus that really depends on its class features and spells it kind of falls apart.

People see that Kensai = exotic weapon proficiency, that katana = scimitar but better, and make the jump that Kensai = awesome katana user. Which it does just fine, if you're using Strength. But Dex... not so much, because you're trying to jump through too many hurdles.

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