Bloodrager bloodlines - claws


Rules Questions


I know that a bloodrager with the Abyssal bloodline grows claws while in a bloodrage. If (s)he has the Draconic bloodline, do they only appear when bloodraging, can you grow them at will as often as you like, or are they there all the time?

Thanks!


The claws are there permanently starting at level 1. Unlike with Abyssal, the Draconic level 1 ability says that you now have claws. Since it doesn't mention anything about growing them at will or only when you bloodrage, they are permanent.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
MurphysParadox wrote:
The claws are there permanently starting at level 1. Unlike with Abyssal, the Draconic level 1 ability says that you now have claws. Since it doesn't mention anything about growing them at will or only when you bloodrage, they are permanent.

This is incorrect. All bloodrager bloodline abilities only apply during bloodrage unless specified.


I know it does. So let me provide you some quotes:

Bloodrage base rule wrote:
When a bloodrager enters a bloodrage, he often takes on a physical transformation influenced by his bloodline and powered by the magic that roils within him. Unless otherwise specified, he gains the effects of his bloodline powers only while in a bloodrage; once the bloodrage ends, all powers from his bloodline immediately cease, and any physical changes the bloodrager underwent revert, restoring him to normal.
Abyssal Bloodline wrote:
Claws (Su) At 1st level, you grow claws while bloodraging.
Draconic Bloodline wrote:
Claws (Su) At 1st level, you grow claws.
Draconic Bloodline for comparison wrote:

Dragon Wings (Su)

At 12th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to have leathery wings grow from your back...

So Abyssal specifically says it happens during the bloodrage. Draconic does not for claws but does for wings. If Draconic was meant to provide claws during bloodrage, it would read identically to the Abyssal version. The wings definition shows that this caveat was not overlooked when writing the Draconic list of abilities. From this list of information, I presume draconic bloodline bloodragers get claws from first level onwards. If this isn't the case, the wording for draconic bloodline claws should be amended to be identical to abyssal.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Calling out that they only function during bloodrage is just a safety net. It's redundant with the line: Unless otherwise specified, he gains the effects of his bloodline powers only while in a bloodrage


I think as written there is room to say the claws are permanent, but it disagrees with the base rules for bloodrager and seems like it should have a clause saying that it's permanent. However, the fact that there may have been some poor editing/writing on the abilities for the draconic bloodline make it appear as though it could be permanent.

I have a feeling that the intention is not for them to be permanent, but I can easily see where you could draw the other conclusion.


Thanks, everyone! It was the difference in phrasing that was throwing me. I suspect that it was just an editing mistake, but I hope one of the Paizo folks weighs in and clears it up for sure.

Silver Crusade

I have something to say on this matter. I want to point out, that based on that logic, Draconic Resistance and Breath Weapon are only active while bloodraging. While I do understand that the bloodline power section states clearly that the powers gained are only active while bloodraging unless otherwise stated. However, it seems like what they did do is clearly state when a bloodline power was gained only during bloodrage. Take into account that the Abberant bloodline power that makes you immune to fatigue. The major benefit here is that you can rage back-to-back. However, if only gained while bloodraging, it loses that benefit, as the fatigue hits you after you end bloodrage.

Furthermore, this can be seen by looking at the parent class Draconic bloodline in which the Draconic Resistance was clearly meant to be a permanent boost. In which case, you would think that it would also be this way for Bloodragers, as it written identically other than the levels at which it is gained.

I am more than willing to be told I'm wrong, but it seems ridiculous that the benefits gained from bloodrager would pale in comparison to sorcerer bloodline abilities. To be fair, I understand that the sorcerer version is limited use on claws, and bloodrager gains rage and armor proficiency. Also, it is not outside of the realm of possibility for this to be permanent, as Rangers gain access to permanent claws (granted, at 2nd level).

My own vested interest here is that if the claws are permanent, it significantly alters my feat progression. Just thought I'd be forthright.


The way I interpret it is that everything has the line "this only works while bloodraging" unless it says otherwise like "You have these benefits constantly, even while not bloodraging." on all the capstone abilities.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, the claws, just like any other bloodline power that doesn't specifically say otherwise, are definitely only granted while bloodraging.


Anyone can surmise, but as pointed out when everyone like to point out "Read as Written" all abilities state if they work only in blood rage mode and some do not make that caveat. Is it an oversight, some would say yes, others would say it was done on purpose to know the difference. Until such a time as someone within Piazo makes a clarification, it can be taken both ways.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Bloodrager bloodlines - claws All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.