non-magic users resisting magic


Advice


Can anyone suggest any particular classes, archetypes, feats, etc. that would work well in building a non-magic user (ex. fighter) who is optimized - as much as possible - to fight magic-users and/or resist the effects of their spells?

Thanks!


Dwarf with the magic resist trait will get you a modest Spell resistance. I think there's a feat you can use to bump it, but the name escapes me and It might be a holdover from 3.5.


Nobody fighter magic users better than other magic users assuming equal player skills.

As for resisting magic barbarians and paladins do really with due to their high saves.

The superstitious barbarian line is good if you want a warrior designed to make casters lives shorter. :)


Does ex fighter mean except for fighter? However I just give my advice without that part.

All dwarf PCs are good at resisting spells. Paladins and monks have strong saves. barbarians can get a nice boost vs will saves via superstitious.

A good base would be a dwarf monk with the glory of old trait and the steel soul feat.

Another good anti caster would be the arcane blooded bloodrager. Take the untouchable or the spelleater archetype so you don't have to cast spells. The untouchable doesn't need cha so you could easily be a dwarf with steel soul and glory of old.
Just be careful with needing heals because your SR counters friendly spells, too.


A Dward with the Glory of Old trait and Steel Soul feat will get a total of +5 to save vs Spells, Spell-like Abilities, and Poison. After that, make them a barbarian with the superstition line, and you have yourself a pretty magic resistant mundane.

Scarab Sages

Tetori Monk is pretty good at destroying a caster (for a martial), as is a brawler fighter with the disruptive feat chain.


Imbicatus wrote:
Tetori Monk is pretty good at destroying a caster (for a martial), as is a brawler fighter with the disruptive feat chain.

combine that with what Revvar said "

A Dward with the Glory of Old trait and Steel Soul feat will get a total of +5 to save vs Spells, Spell-like Abilities, and Poison. After that, make them a barbarian with the superstition line, and you have yourself a pretty magic resistant mundane.
"

getting a dwarf monk( +2 to wis and con -2 to cha) can be a VERY anti caster monk.

only reason i never played dwarves for my monk(and i do love playing monks) is that i just hate how dwarves look.

Sovereign Court

revaar wrote:
A Dwarf with the Glory of Old trait and Steel Soul feat will get a total of +5 to save vs Spells, Spell-like Abilities, and Poison. After that, make them a barbarian with the superstition line, and you have yourself a pretty magic resistant mundane.

Technically it'd only give +5 to spells/spell-like abilities and +3 vs poison. Glory of Old adds to both, but Steel Soul doesn't help with poison. (Still a great feat.)

I only remember that because I've been looking at both since my next PFS character I'm planning is a dwarf drunken master. (When I start him at level 4 his saves vs spells will all be either +13 or +14. :P)


To be able to withstand magic you typically need a couple of things. First and probably most important are good saves. Will and fortitude are more important than reflex, but reflex is still needed. Second is a high touch AC. Many spells like rays target touch AC. Since most caster don’t have the huge bonus to hit martials have it does not have to be supper high, just high enough for the touch attacks to fail. If your touch AC is about equal to your normal AC you should be fine. Evasion is also something that can be useful to resist magic. Last but not least is magic resistance. Magic resistance can shut down a caster trying to affect something pretty quick.

There is only one class in the game that gets all these and that is the monk. A monk can be a casters nightmare. While the monk does have problems going up against level appropriate challenges, he does quite well vs wizards. The monk usually has problems hitting his target, but a caster usually has a much lower AC. Even if he can hit the monk often has trouble doing enough damage to be a threat, but the wizard usually has a lot less HP than an appropriate level challenge. Most level appropriate creatures also have way to high of a CMD for grapple to work, but wizards usually have crap for CMD. All in all a monk can be a wizard nightmare. Make it a dwarf monk with both steal soul, and glory of old and there may not be much the wizard can do to him.


Steel Soul Glory of Old Dwarven Tetori Monk seems like a winner. Just need to make sure you have an option against flying wizards. Either invest in jumping up to them or sneak-grapple before they take flight.


Why a Tetori Monk, as opposed to other types of Monk?

Scarab Sages

Because grappling shuts down casters. Tetori have a great grapple bonus, monk speed to get to casters quickly, and can shut down magical escapes via negating freedom of movement, liberating command, teleportation, and polymorph effects.

Sovereign Court

Imbicatus wrote:
Because grappling shuts down casters. Tetori have a great grapple bonus, monk speed to get to casters quickly, and can shut down magical escapes via negating freedom of movement, liberating command, teleportation, and polymorph effects.

Is there a way for them to shut-down the teleporation wizard archetype? (short distance teleports as a swift action) It seems half the wizards about are said archetype.

Scarab Sages

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Because grappling shuts down casters. Tetori have a great grapple bonus, monk speed to get to casters quickly, and can shut down magical escapes via negating freedom of movement, liberating command, teleportation, and polymorph effects.
Is there a way for them to shut-down the teleporation wizard archetype? (short distance teleports as a swift action) It seems half the wizards about are said archetype.

Inescapable Grasp allows them to dimensional anchor a grappled opponent at 13th level.

Sovereign Court

Imbicatus wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Because grappling shuts down casters. Tetori have a great grapple bonus, monk speed to get to casters quickly, and can shut down magical escapes via negating freedom of movement, liberating command, teleportation, and polymorph effects.
Is there a way for them to shut-down the teleporation wizard archetype? (short distance teleports as a swift action) It seems half the wizards about are said archetype.
Inescapable Grasp allows them to dimensional anchor a grappled opponent at 13th level.

Gotcha. Probably why I didn't remember it - my campaigns (either home of PFS) rarely get that high, so I tend not to look at abilities higher than 10ish.


Thanks, guys, I really appreciate all the advice. I'm playing around with all the options right now, but you've given me several things that I hadn't considered, but will work great!


Just a Guess wrote:

Does ex fighter mean except for fighter? However I just give my advice without that part.

All dwarf PCs are good at resisting spells. Paladins and monks have strong saves. barbarians can get a nice boost vs will saves via superstitious.

A good base would be a dwarf monk with the glory of old trait and the steel soul feat.

Another good anti caster would be the arcane blooded bloodrager. Take the untouchable or the spelleater archetype so you don't have to cast spells. The untouchable doesn't need cha so you could easily be a dwarf with steel soul and glory of old.
Just be careful with needing heals because your SR counters friendly spells, too.

"Nobody fighter" should have been "Nobody fights"


Just a Guess wrote:
Does ex fighter mean except for fighter?

I mean it to mean "example." Thanks for the advice!


If you go barbarian don't miss Spell Sunder. If lets you get through problems that a monk just has to stare at unhappily.


Half elves have the dual minded trait that gives +2 to will saves. They also have a racial feat to reroll 1/day on enchantment effects.

I know people like dwarves better due to steel soul, but it doesn't cover supernatural abilities (such as hexes). The fact that half elves just plain ignore the slumber hex is a strong boost in their favor as witch hunters.

Anyway, this only helps to patch up will saves (toss an iron will, decent wis, and maybe a trait on there for good measure), but there are plenty of pure martial classes with good fort and reflex (ranger, slayer, and brawler come to mind). So you you can work with it without too many problems.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Because grappling shuts down casters. Tetori have a great grapple bonus, monk speed to get to casters quickly, and can shut down magical escapes via negating freedom of movement, liberating command, teleportation, and polymorph effects.
Is there a way for them to shut-down the teleporation wizard archetype? (short distance teleports as a swift action) It seems half the wizards about are said archetype.

The other way to shut down the teleportation wizard is... grapple them again after they Shift away. After all, they just used their whole turn (and then some) to move a few feet away.


superstitious rage pounce barbarians do well against wizards, and if they survive the first round to teleport away just pounce on them again. Usually the superstitious barbarian can count on saves to ward off magic but in a magic heavy environment then magic resistant dwarf is a good race, although it does cut down on the charge range.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

What about this untouchable rager?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager/archetypes/paizo- --bloodrager-archetypes/untouchable-rager

Sovereign Court

RumpinRufus wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Because grappling shuts down casters. Tetori have a great grapple bonus, monk speed to get to casters quickly, and can shut down magical escapes via negating freedom of movement, liberating command, teleportation, and polymorph effects.
Is there a way for them to shut-down the teleporation wizard archetype? (short distance teleports as a swift action) It seems half the wizards about are said archetype.
The other way to shut down the teleportation wizard is... grapple them again after they Shift away. After all, they just used their whole turn (and then some) to move a few feet away.

Actually - it's a swift action.

SRD wrote:


Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Scarab Sages

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Because grappling shuts down casters. Tetori have a great grapple bonus, monk speed to get to casters quickly, and can shut down magical escapes via negating freedom of movement, liberating command, teleportation, and polymorph effects.
Is there a way for them to shut-down the teleporation wizard archetype? (short distance teleports as a swift action) It seems half the wizards about are said archetype.
The other way to shut down the teleportation wizard is... grapple them again after they Shift away. After all, they just used their whole turn (and then some) to move a few feet away.

Actually - it's a swift action.

SRD wrote:


Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Yes, but since it functions as dimension door, it ends their turn unless they have dimensional agility.


Imbicatus wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
The other way to shut down the teleportation wizard is... grapple them again after they Shift away. After all, they just used their whole turn (and then some) to move a few feet away.

Actually - it's a swift action.

SRD wrote:

Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Yes, but since it functions as dimension door, it ends their turn unless they have dimensional agility.

Almost - it ends their turn (as for dimension door), they can't take actions until their next turn (so no immediate actions), and also Dimensional Agility doesn't even apply - Dimensional Agility only applies after using Abundant Step or casting dimension door, and although Shift functions as dimension door you're not actually casting the spell, so the feat doesn't apply.

Once you Shift, your turn is over, and then some. It may be a swift action, but if you're using it before your other actions (such as trying to escape a grapple) it's more costly than a full-round action. And the grappler is probably just going to move to your new location and grab you again.


I don't know. A smart wizard isn't going to just teleport a few feet away if he can help it. He'd go to the other side of a wall or up a ledge or (most probable) behind a beefy polearm user who's already closed with the grappler. Grappling wizards is an amazing option, but it's not an encounter ender unless the wizard is already out of allies on disadvantageous ground within striking distance of the grappler, i.e. already screwed.


derail
If a wizard with mirror image up is successfully grappled, does that have any consequences for others trying to attack the wizard? In regards to mirror image, that is.
I guess the answer is no, because the rules don't say so.
/derail

The brawler fighter has some nice anti caster abilities, too. But I do not think he's strong enough to offset being a fighter in the first place.

For the tetori it might be important which is right about casting a spell while grappled: The condition or the entry under concentration.
I use the grappled condition version.

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