Spheres of Power archetypes expanded


Advice and Rules Questions

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I wanted to try my hand at creating Advanced Players Guide and Advanced Class Guide archetypes for the Spheres of Power system created by Drop Dead Studios. Tell me what you guys think?

The Archetypes

Spheres of Power product discussion

Reasons for potentially weird choices:

Why so few talents on the witch's base progression?
Witches still gain 1 talent every level, but half of their talents must come from specific spheres. I made this choice based on how the Cleric and Thaumaturge were handled. Witches still get strong hexes, so I figured this would be fair.

Why so much stuff for the summoner?
I tried to remove as much from the summoner as I could that interacted directly with the base magic system. But I couldn't just snip it all. This is an archetype and things have to be replaced, not removed.

Why did you ignore the alchemist?
I think that the Spheres System would not work well with the Alchemist. The Alchemist extract list has many effects that cannot be replicated in the spheres system (bomb extracts!). Also I personally think its cool if alchemy has a completely different subsystem than magic.

Feedback I am looking for:
How should I go about changing a lot of the magus class features? Can you guys help me come up with some new arcana for them?

Did I go overboard on the summoner? Does it need nerfs or buffs?

How should I handle rogue talents that allow you to cast spells?

Did I make the Oracle too strong? Should I have the bonus spells from mysteries instead grant talents based on the mystery's theme and half their normal talent progression like how Clerics worked? My conversion for Oracles was originally templated after the Sorcerer.


Please move this thread back to Homebrew please. I am not a third party publisher and I am not discussing content created by Drop Dead Studios. I am writing my own archetypes for their subsystem, which means that it belongs in the Homebrew section.

If not Homebrew, then at least move it to Conversions. That is still more appropriate than here.


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Dot!


Now that the Magus is complete, what do you guys think? I think it was the most in-depth conversion because so many of its class features have to do with the pathfinder spellcasting system that I had to go in and change little words.


Conversion complete! Now to to work on rogue talents and magus arcana.


I like how you replaced the Eidolon with a Conjuration creature. Probably balances that aspect of the class.


Looking at the Witch now. I'll post my thoughts on your version first and then post my own after.

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I would change it so the Witch gets not their choice of talent from a Sphere at 2nd level but the Sphere itself - if they already have the Sphere, they gain a talent from the Sphere instead.

I notice you give the Witch 1 talent per level (1 from any sphere at odd levels and 1 from their patron sphere at even levels). So, 2 talents every 2 levels. This puts them behind Wizards who gain 3 talents every 2 levels. Do you think a Witch's Hexes are more powerful than the scalable Wizard School powers? Is that why the Witch gets fewer talents? Looking at the original spell progression, Witches and Wizards seemed to gain spells pretty much on par.

For casting tradition, I recommend the Magical Signs drawback as well for Witch. Witches are, by tradition, supposed to be a bit off-putting in their spellcasting.

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The Witch was the first thing I addressed when I decided to adapt Spheres of Power to our campaign because the primary spellcaster in the party is a Witch. She's also the party's healer. The player was concerned at first because, while she saw the potential to be MUCH better in her niche as a healer she was concerned that, at first level, she was giving up a lot of versatility. After much back and forth, here's what we came up with. My notes are italicized.

Sphere Witch

Casting: The sphere witch may combine spheres and talents to create magical effects. The sphere witch is considered a High-Caster and uses Intelligence as her casting ability modifier. (Note: All casters gain 2 bonus talents and may select a casting tradition the first time they gain the casting class feature.)

This replaces the spells class feature.

The Witch had to be a high-caster. That was just obvious.

Spell Points: The sphere witch gains a small reservoir of energy she can call on to create truly wondrous effects, called a spell pool. This pool contains a number of spell points equal to her level + her Intelligence modifier (minimum: 1). This pool replenishes once per day after roughly 8 hours of rest.

Again, this one was common sense.

Sphere Patron: A sphere witch gains a patron as normal, but does not gain patron spells. Instead, she gains a Sphere as determined by her patron at 1st level. She gains an additional magic talent from her patron at every odd level thereafter.

This modifies the Patron Spells class feature.

I admit, this was a departure from the original class. It has never made sense to me that a Witch is so focused around the concept of a patron yet the patron doesn't manifest until 2nd level. The patron should be there, in my opinion, from level one. Also, if the Witch gets her Patron Sphere at 2nd level, chances are it is a Sphere she has already chosen so gaining it again at 2nd level seems redundant.

Magic Talents: A sphere witch gains 1 additional magic talent at 1st level and level thereafter.

In looking at the Witch and Wizard's spell progression, it seemed the Witch gained spells roughly on par with the Wizard to me - with the restriction that some of the Witch's gained spells were predetermined. I tried to duplicate that here with the Witch gaining 2 Spheres (1 she chooses, 1 chosen by her Patron) and 3 talents at 1st level (as opposed to the 1 Sphere and 4 talents a Wizard gets at 1st level) then 2 talents at every even level (1 she chooses, 1 chosen from her Patron sphere) and 1 talent at every odd level. The Hex powers a Witch gain may be a little more powerful than a Wizard's school powers but I don't believe it is by much, especially when you factor in the Wizard's bonus feats.

Sphere Familiar: Familiars store all spell points the sphere witch has, and a sphere witch cannot recover spell points after resting without her familiar present.

This modifies the Witch’s Familiar class feature

We were on the same page, here.

Cantrips: The Witch gains the Cantrip feat as a bonus feat at 1st level.

This replaces the Witch's Cantrips class feature.

This is a personal preference. I think all high-level casters should have access to cantrips to produce low level effects without worry of spell point use or not having the right spheres. If you're having dinner with a Wizard, he should be able to levitate the salt over to him even if he doesn't have the Telekinesis sphere because it is just such a firm part of the archetype. Likewise, a Witch should be able to summon a dramatic wind without having the Nature/Air Sphere. I might argue, however, that there should be different Cantrip Feats for different classes. A Wizard's cantrips should probably be different from a Cleric's, for example.

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Our party also has a Hunter so I looked at your Hunter archetype. When it comes to the Sphere specific stuff, we're on board. I made the Hunter a mid-level caster as well and granted them 1 talent per level starting at 2nd level, in addition to the free 1 sphere and 2 talents that come at 1st. The animal focus ability you grant is interesting though I'm not sure it is needed.


You bring up some good points. I was basing the slowed progression off clerics and thaumaturge. Cleric progression is basically identical while thaumaturge has reduced progression due to its number of class features. I am gonna look them over one more time to see if my choices for witch seem fair. It just occurred to me that clerics and I think thaumaturge are both medium ban. That is a large difference between them and witches.

For the hunter's animal focus thing, I just added wording to its existing capstone since without that text the capstone is rendered null. Hunters replenish spell points instead of recover spells.

@Silvercatmoonpaw
Thank you. Do you think core eidolon needs adjustment? I was thinking of lowering its power. Agh, now that I'm not home I am finding typos! Those will be fixed.


Adam B. 135 wrote:
Do you think core eidolon needs adjustment? I was thinking of lowering its power.

I'm not really that good at mechanics evaluation. I just know that the eidolon is brought up a lot in discussions about what's broken/overpowered/wonky about Pathfinder. It's one of the options they're re-exploring in their houserule book Pathfinder Unchained so even the designers may think it's a bit much.


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Do you think core eidolon needs adjustment? I was thinking of lowering its power.
I'm not really that good at mechanics evaluation. I just know that the eidolon is brought up a lot in discussions about what's broken/overpowered/wonky about Pathfinder. It's one of the options they're re-exploring in their houserule book Pathfinder Unchained so even the designers may think it's a bit much.

sorry, I meant my core eidolon class feature and not the eidolon from the core line. One more thing I must address!


By the way, I'm thinking these shouldn't be called "archetypes" but, rather, entirely variant base classes. Otherwise, we'd be applying archetypes to archetypes.


The ones in the Spheres of Power book are actually labeled archetypes. I wanted to follow their formatting.

After reviewing the Thaumaturge and Cleric, I think that granting the Witch 1 talent per level + the talents her patron gives her might be too strong. Thaumaturge Invocations are not as strong as Hexes.

Also, the way I've been running cantrips, orisons, and the like is that since they were not removed from the class features by the Sphere archetypes, I am letting the player use their 0-level spells as normal. Which means they get to follow the original class's table for 0-level spells.

Core Eidolon has been renamed Bonded Eidolon to avoid confusion. I am considering changing the class feature to this:

Bonded Eidolon:
Bonded EidolonThe sphere summoner designates one of his eidolons at character creation to be his bonded eidolon. Bonded eidolons have great longevity in this plain, gaining the benefit of the Lingering Companion (form) talent. Additionally the bonded eidolon gains +1 hit point and +1 skill point per hit die and gains an additional class skill.

The bonded eidolon is treated as the base summoner’s eidolon for all class features that reference the eidolon, such as Bond Senses and Shield Ally. For Twin Eidolon, the sphere summoner gains all form talents that the bonded eidolon possesses instead of its evolutions.
This ability replaces the Summon Monster class feature.


How would this make you guys feel?


huh. You know, I think I like the cantrip feat better. I'll disagree with you on the Witch but that's alright. In gaming we can both be right.


For the Magus, I think replacing the Arcane Pool with the Spell Pool is best to avoid the confusion of two different but similar pools. Then give the Magus the Enhancement sphere for free but with the Personal Magics drawback. Any time the Magus can select a new Magus Arcana, he may instead choose to select a new Enhancement talent. This gives an ability very similar to what the Arcane Pool already does, but slightly better. All abilities that reference Arcane Pool now reference Spell Pool.


CalethosVB wrote:
For the Magus, I think replacing the Arcane Pool with the Spell Pool is best to avoid the confusion of two different but similar pools. Then give the Magus the Enhancement sphere for free but with the Personal Magics drawback. Any time the Magus can select a new Magus Arcana, he may instead choose to select a new Enhancement talent. This gives an ability very similar to what the Arcane Pool already does, but slightly better. All abilities that reference Arcane Pool now reference Spell Pool.

I think that works for me, but I want to hear other's opinions. I'd also have to give them a bigger spell point pool to make up for it.

With that said, does anyone have opposing opinions to this change?

Jgray, giving them the cantrip feat probably makes more sense anyway, and its less book keeping. I'll ask my players what they think of it, but I am not going to add the cantrip feats to these archetypes in order to keep parallel to Drop Dead Studio's formatting.


Adam B. 135 wrote:
CalethosVB wrote:
For the Magus, I think replacing the Arcane Pool with the Spell Pool is best to avoid the confusion of two different but similar pools. Then give the Magus the Enhancement sphere for free but with the Personal Magics drawback. Any time the Magus can select a new Magus Arcana, he may instead choose to select a new Enhancement talent. This gives an ability very similar to what the Arcane Pool already does, but slightly better. All abilities that reference Arcane Pool now reference Spell Pool.

I think that works for me, but I want to hear other's opinions. I'd also have to give them a bigger spell point pool to make up for it.

With that said, does anyone have opposing opinions to this change?

Jgray, giving them the cantrip feat probably makes more sense anyway, and its less book keeping. I'll ask my players what they think of it, but I am not going to add the cantrip feats to these archetypes in order to keep parallel to Drop Dead Studio's formatting.

I'm in for that change too. The Enhancement sphere is pretty close and I'm never one for keeping track of two point pools. It just seems logical.


Malwing wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
CalethosVB wrote:
For the Magus, I think replacing the Arcane Pool with the Spell Pool is best to avoid the confusion of two different but similar pools. Then give the Magus the Enhancement sphere for free but with the Personal Magics drawback. Any time the Magus can select a new Magus Arcana, he may instead choose to select a new Enhancement talent. This gives an ability very similar to what the Arcane Pool already does, but slightly better. All abilities that reference Arcane Pool now reference Spell Pool.

I think that works for me, but I want to hear other's opinions. I'd also have to give them a bigger spell point pool to make up for it.

With that said, does anyone have opposing opinions to this change?

Jgray, giving them the cantrip feat probably makes more sense anyway, and its less book keeping. I'll ask my players what they think of it, but I am not going to add the cantrip feats to these archetypes in order to keep parallel to Drop Dead Studio's formatting.

I'm in for that change too. The Enhancement sphere is pretty close and I'm never one for keeping track of two point pools. It just seems logical.

Thats 3 (counting myself) who want to change this, and it honestly seems like a natural change. The only downsides I have been able to find have been that this change locks out the Black Blade archetype. I think I can live with that, so unless someone has a really good argument against this, I am going to change it.

That said, how do you all feel about bumping up the number of Magic Talents Witchs get? I personally think that Hexes even it out I am just one guy. I want to know what you all think.

Also, any opinions on the Bonded Eidolon? Is it fine as is? Should I change it to what I have detailed a few posts above this post?


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I didn’t want to derail your thread about converting the canon classes by posting it in here, Adam B. 135, but I’d welcome your thoughts on my current working version of the Corinthian Elementalist. ;-)


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The Bonded Eidolon class feature seems a bit weird to me.

I think the Summon Monster SLA should be replaced with the Extra Companion talent. Here's why:

You start off the Conjuration sphere with ONE summon available to you. Obviously, this is going to be your Eidolon. You need a second (or third) companion to back you up when (if) the Eidolon goes down.

And then for the Eidolon, you get to pick which of your summoned companions gets the Greater Summoning AND Lingering Companion talent (1 day summons, yeah!). In addition to this, at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, the sphere summoner may select an additional Conjuration talent to be used with his eidolon. These talents may not be used with his other companions unless taken with the talents he gains from gaining a caster level. At 18th level this gives the eidolon an additional 8 talents over standard summons, including Lingering Companion. Yeah, you could choose Lingering Companion as a standard summoner talent and have all your summons get that, but then the eidolon still has 6 over everyone else.

Then have all abilities that reference the eidolon instead reference this creature.

Man, this really makes the summoner seem truly weird. It acts as a full caster and has a ton of abilities that make it seem like it is, but then it's squished down into this half-caster abomination. It's a freaking druid that has an ungodly emphasis on his animal companion.


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The Witch should get a talent at every caster level, just like the Wizard, plus the additional talent every other level, just like the Wizard. Instead of bonus feats and arcane schools, the Witch gets hexes. There's the balance.


I rather like your summoned suggestions CalethosVB. I can't access my materials right now but I think I'll do something like that. I was initially trying to be very conservative with summoners due to the ire they receive.

Right now its 2:1 for buffing witch. Anyone else mind contributing their 2 cents? Otherwise they are getting more talents.


CalethosVB wrote:
The Witch should get a talent at every caster level, just like the Wizard, plus the additional talent every other level, just like the Wizard. Instead of bonus feats and arcane schools, the Witch gets hexes. There's the balance.

Agreed. :)

I also agree that you could probably replace the eidolon summoning ability with some strong Conjuration sphere focus.

I think the watchword here should be don't use two rule sets when you can use one. Conjuration seems to do what eidolon does with, perhaps, more versatility so why have two different ways to accomplish the same thing?

My be concern is that sme archetypes become invalid with the sphere system... But those can always be tweaked as well.


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Had a better chance to look everything over. Good stuff overall! Plan to use a lot of them for one of my own homebrew games coming up. Thanks very much for sharing!


Wow. That should have been "my big concern is that some archetypes..."

Strange autocorrect, iPad.


A few thoughts on the ones before the ACG classes;

I'm definitely not a fan of two pool points. I think he'd be better off with the enhancement sphere as a bonus sphere and treat his level as his caster level and treat spell points as arcane points for the purposes of arcana abilities. Although why does he get a talent each level? With Sphere Access he seems to have a lot for a mid caster. To some extent I think he should look more like an Armorist.

I don't think that the Summoner has too much. If anything since he loses his eidolon I presume that he loses access to eidolon evolutions which makes him a shade weaker than his casting counterpart (not to mention early access to higher level spells.

The Inquisitor seems the easiest since the class doesn't really interact with it's spells or get bonus spells. But again he gets a sphere each level instead of caster level when I thought the standard was that casters get a talent per caster level.

Hard to say anything about the Oracle because I think that one is just a doozy that's going to be plagued with exception language due to the nature of the class.

The witch may be too weak here if the the mid casters are getting a talent per level as well. Hexes can be strong but witches don't have much else for class features so may be behind. It having 1/2 bab and a d6 hid die makes it too vulnerable. As well. Pretty much all it has is casting and hexes.


Thoughts on ones from ACG;

For the arcanist, again I'm not a fan of two pools. I think the spell pool should just be used for exploits. Also again I think the Arcanist is physically too weak and too low on other class features to simply get a new sphere per level. Probably should look more like an Eliciter, especially since some exploits don't work with spheres.

Sphere kenning is oddly worded for the Skald. Wouldn't it be worded that he gets a spontaneous talent rather than a 'sphere ability'?

I feel weird about 4/9 casters getting spheres late like their counterparts as I thought low casters served to represent 4/9 casters. What happens with bloodline spells and differences between bloodline arcana?

Hunter, Warpriest and Shaman seem logical.

Why do the 6/9 casters and the full casters get a talent each level? I would think that they'd all get a talent per caster level. If not why wouldn't full casters get more, particularly arcane casters since they are the ones that exclusively have 1/2 BAB-d6 HD and have fewer class features because full arcane spell lists are generally better.


Malwing wrote:
Why do the 6/9 casters and the full casters get a talent each level? I would think that they'd all get a talent per caster level. If not why wouldn't full casters get more, particularly arcane casters since they are the ones that exclusively have 1/2 BAB-d6 HD and have fewer class features because full arcane spell lists are generally better.

I think the point is to give each casting class a talent at each caster level (I need an Ioun Stone, NOW!) and not each class level, with dedicated caster classes (Witch, Wizard, Sorcerer) gaining more talents.

Interesting enough, this puts the Druid and the Cleric as very powerful full-casting classes, since they have access to all spheres, as well as mid-BAB, while nerfing the Wizard slightly. The Druid also has a bunch of really good class features by itself, while the Cleric has a lot of different ways to feat-use Channel Energy to power other abilities, whereas the Wizard has a few bonus feats and a school ability that may or may not work in SoP.


Well the wizard archetype in Spheres of Power gets 3 talents every 2 levels so by the end he has 30+the two he gets from gaining the casting in the first place. I had presumed that 1/2BAB=high caster, 3/4BAB=mid caster and fullBAB=low caster. But the fact of the matter is that 3/4 BAB casters can have full or 6/9 casting and the rest of the class is balanced around that. If the 3/4BAB full spellcasters get to be high casters that get a sphere each level then the Arcane casters getting the same are left out because its saying that 9 levels of wizard list is the equivalent of 9 levels of cleric list which isn't really true. So I think full arcane casters really need to have sphere acquisition rates like the sphere wizard or Incanter.

So; Arcane full spellcasting=30 talents, full divine casting=20 talents


Gnomes (and variants of other races) get spell-like abilities as part of their racial package.

In trying to replace basic magic with Sphere magic as much as possible, I decided to do a bit of conversion here as well.

Instead of getting X, Y and Z spells once per day with an effective spellcasting level of 1, those races that get spellcasting abilities as part of their class instead get:

  • 1 spell point
  • An effective caster level of +0
  • A Casting Ability Modifier as the GM feels is appropriate.
  • The ability to use each base talent in a single Sphere (or path of a Sphere, in the case of Spheres like Nature) once per day.

So, your standard Gnome would get all the base talents of the Illusion Sphere once per day while an elf with the Envoy alternate racial ability would get all the base talents of the Divination Sphere once per day.


Thank you all so much for the feedback! I never expected this much.

Its official then. Magus is losing his pool for the enhancement sphere, more spell points, and the ability to take enhancement talents in place of arcane. They will treat enhancements caster level as their class level when applying its effects to themselves or their equipment.

Witches are getting more magic talents.

Summoners will probably be changed as Calethosvb suggested.

Arcanist and scald will be adjusted.

Bloodragers are getting more spell points because I forgot they had bloodline spells.

@Malwing. The reason you think the medium casters get so many talents is because spheres of power caster levels are different from pathfinder ones. These medium casters only gain 15 caster levels over their careers. Full casters gain 20 or more. This also means medium caster sphere effects will be weaker.

The wizard and incanter are exceptions to the rule. Sorcerer gain 20, but get a bloodline, and 20 extra spell points. Soul weavers get strong class features so they get 20 talents. Clerics and druids get medium ban and better class features and saves so they get 20 talents.

4/9 casters starting their progression late was kept by sphere paladin and ranger. I didn't want to upset the standard already set.


I think they did a disservice to Rangers and Paladins by locking them in at the level -3 casting. It's impossible to duplicate Instant Enemy and other spells that are tailor made for those classes. Giving them spheres and a caster level at level 1 kinda makes up for it.

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You don't need to completely rewrite the magus's class features. I'd make it something like this:

Spoiler:

Casting: The sphere magus may combine spheres and talents to create magical effects. The sphere magus is considered a Mid-Caster and uses Intelligence as his casting ability modifier. (Note: All casters gain 2 bonus talents and may select a casting tradition the first time they gain the casting class feature.)

This replaces the spells class feature.

Spell Points: The sphere magus gains a small reservoir of energy he can call on to create truly wondrous effects, called a spell pool. This pool contains a number of spell points equal to her level + his Intelligence modifier (minimum: 1). This pool replenishes once per day after roughly 8 hours of rest.

Destructive Magus: Starting from 1st level, a sphere magus with the Destruction spheres uses his class level as his caster level for Destruction sphere abilities.

This replaces spell recall and improved spell recall.

Enhancement Weaving: At 1st level, a sphere magus gains the Enhancement sphere as a bonus magic talent and uses his class level as his caster level when using enhance on a piece of equipment. When a sphere magus spends a spell point to make an equipment enhancement linger without concentration, he may spend an additional point to have it stack with the equipment's existing enhancement bonuses.

This replaces arcane pool.

Sphere Combat: At 1st level, a sphere magus may a cast sphere ability with a casting time of 1 standard action or 1 move action instead of a magus spell when using spell combat.

This alters spell combat.

Sphere Strike: At 2nd level, when casting a sphere ability with a range of Touch, a sphere magus may perform a melee attack with a wielded weapon as a free action. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the ability. This ability otherwise functions identically as spellstrike.

This replaces and modifies spellstrike.

Sphere Arcana: Whenever a sphere magus uses an ability that requires spending arcane pool points, he may spend a spell point instead. Additionally, whenever a sphere magus gains a magus arcana, he may gain a magic talent instead.

Improved Enhancement Weaving: At 7th level, a sphere magus's equipment enhancements always stack with existing enhancement bonuses when he spends a spell point to have the enhancement linger without concentration. He does not need to spend an additional spell point.

This replaces knowledge pool.

Flexible Sphere Access: At 19th level, a sphere magus may spend a spell point as a swift action to gain access to a magic talent he does not possess. He may gain access up to a maximum of three magic talents by spending additional spell points. This effect lasts 1 minute.

This replaces greater spell access.


Cyrad, that Magus looks pretty good.


Calethos: I agree. I think Rangers and Paladins getting spells later should have been factored into the high/middle/low level caster chart.


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I really like what Cyrad did with it. Will be implementing most of those myself!

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My thought process is that a magus doesn't really need spell recall or any of the features that give them bonus spells. A limited spell list and spell slots function as the magus's weakness as a spellcaster. Spell recall is meant to enable the magus to be a blaster while still sparing spell slots for utility. These abilities also were designed to help the magus's weak late game compared to both fighters and wizards.

Spheres of Power eliminates these downsides by allowing the magus to cast spells at-will and use any kind of ability they wish. Wizards also lack the insanely powerful late game, so magi are still powerful by comparison. However, Spheres would likely give the magus a new downside: lower spell scaling as a Mid-Caster. While I think this is acceptable, it really hurts their blasting, which isn't good for a class dedicated to blasting. So I think letting Destruction scale based on class level works out, especially considering the Elementalist gets better stats anyway.

In addition, while Enhancement seems like a logical replacement for arcane pool, the enhance equipment ability is actually WORSE than arcane pool. It does not allow you to stack the enhancement bonus on the weapon and has fewer abilities. Spending two spell points to make it stack sounds like a fair trade. Enhancing is more costly and has fewer abilities than arcane pool, but you can enhance armor and make it last longer with the right magic talents.


Adam B. 135 wrote:

Thank you all so much for the feedback! I never expected this much.

Its official then. Magus is losing his pool for the enhancement sphere, more spell points, and the ability to take enhancement talents in place of arcane. They will treat enhancements caster level as their class level when applying its effects to themselves or their equipment.

Witches are getting more magic talents.

Summoners will probably be changed as Calethosvb suggested.

Arcanist and scald will be adjusted.

Bloodragers are getting more spell points because I forgot they had bloodline spells.

Okay, I implemented all of these changes for the most part, and took a lot of inspiration from Cyrad's ideas for the Magus. I didn't want the magus to step too much on the Elementalist's toes since sphere strike is a better version of energy weapon from the destruction sphere. They can apply it to so much more. I wanted the magus to be a more general magical warrior where as the Elementalist is focused entirely on blasting and energy weapon use. Magi did get additional spell points to make up for the lost arcane pool points.


Here's a crazy idea: what about archetypes for all the non-caster classes giving them Magic bonus/talent progressions. That way you can run "everyone has magic" games.


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Here's a crazy idea: what about archetypes for all the non-caster classes giving them Magic bonus/talent progressions. That way you can run "everyone has magic" games.

I'd say just modify the current spellcasters to trade out standard spells for SoP and ban the non-casting classes. No Barbarian, Fighter, or Rogue. As it is, anyone (including a Commoner) can pick up SoP feats if they wish, gaining Spheres, a progressing caster level, and multiple talents in their adventure if they wish. Levels in a casting class just gives it to them at a defined rate without having to spend feats.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition Subscriber

Actually look at the feats in Spheres of Power. If I read a few of them right, with 2-3 feats you can become a 1/4 caster like a paladin or ranger just by spending feats I think. That said, don't have my pdf handy or I wouldn't be so vague.


CalethosVB wrote:
As it is, anyone (including a Commoner) can pick up SoP feats if they wish, gaining Spheres, a progressing caster level, and multiple talents in their adventure if they wish.

Ah, I didn't see that.


Basic Magic Training grants a Sphere and a CL of 1.

Advanced Magic Training grants a CL of 1/2 (low-caster) your level in non-casting classes. You gain a Spell Pool of your CAM if you do not have levels of a spellcasting class.

Then you can pick up the Extra Talent feat to grab more Spheres or talents for a Sphere you already have.

The new Rogue Talents created by Adam B's document makes an excellent addition to the Rogue. I can't think of why DDS didn't already have those included. They make sense, especially since the Rogue already has the ability to pick up SLAs using Rogue Talents.


I figured that since rogues had talents for spellcasting that they deserved talents to get an equivalent in spheres.


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On the Magus, it reads that enhancement weaving replaces your arcane pool. Later, on sphere recall, it reads that I may expend two arcane pool points to regain one spent spell point as a swift action. Am I not reading something or is this a typo?


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That is a typo. I am thinking of undoing the change to arcane pool though since it in incongruous with the actual spheres of power book. Hedgewitches can get the arcane pool class feature so now I see no reason to take it from magus.


Hi, I'm a big supporter of converting the as-of-yet unsupported Paizo classes to Spheres of Power, especially the magus, and while I'm by no means an expert on homebrewing, I thought I'd propose my own variant (Which, really owes a lot to both Adam and Cyrad, with just a few of my own changes).

So, you may ask before you dive in, what DID I change? Aka. Change log:
-Changed Destructive Magic to "Magus Doctrine", with choice of Destruction, Protection and War, with the option to swap your choice once per day in the morning at 11th level (replaces Improved Spell Recall). Note: This still doesn't give you any extra talents in the sphere you're switching to so you better check your talents before you switch. Still, I think a Magus could manage flexibility between two doctrines at least. I mostly did this because I have a friend who expressed an interest in playing a defensive magus, so let's consider that.
-Some extra spell points, but not as many as in Adam's version - at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level, so 5 in total.

Spoiler:
Casting: The sphere magus may combine spheres and talents to create magical effects. The sphere magus is considered a Mid-Caster and uses Intelligence as his casting ability modifier. (Note: All casters gain 2 bonus talents and may select a casting tradition the first time they gain the casting class feature.)

This replaces the spells class feature.

Spell Points: The sphere magus gains a small reservoir of energy he can call on to create truly wondrous effects, called a spell pool. This pool contains a number of spell points equal to her level + his Intelligence modifier (minimum: 1). This pool replenishes once per day after roughly 8 hours of rest.

Magus Doctrine: At 1st level, a sphere magus chooses one of the following options as his Magus Doctrine:

Offensive Doctrine: Starting from 1st level, a sphere magus with Doctrine: Offense uses his class level as his caster level for Destruction sphere abilities.

Defensive Doctrine: Starting from 1st level, a sphere magus with Doctrine: Defense uses his class level as his caster level for Protection sphere abilities.

Command Doctrine: Starting from 1st level, a sphere magus with Doctrine: Command uses his class level as his caster level for War sphere abilities.

This replaces spell recall.

Enhancement Weaving: At 1st level, a sphere magus gains the Enhancement sphere as a bonus magic talent and uses his class level as his caster level when using enhance on a piece of equipment. When a sphere magus spends a spell point to make an equipment enhancement linger without concentration, he may spend an additional point to have it stack with the equipment's existing enhancement bonuses.

Additionally, at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level, the sphere magus gains 1 additional spell point.
This replaces arcane pool.

Sphere Combat: At 1st level, a sphere magus may a cast sphere ability with a casting time of 1 standard action or 1 move action instead of a magus spell when using spell combat.

This alters spell combat.

Sphere Strike: At 2nd level, when casting a sphere ability with a range of Touch, a sphere magus may perform a melee attack with a wielded weapon as a free action. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the ability. This ability otherwise functions identically as spellstrike.

This replaces and modifies spellstrike.

Sphere Arcana: Whenever a sphere magus uses an ability that requires spending arcane pool points, he may spend a spell point instead. Additionally, whenever a sphere magus gains a magus arcana, he may gain a magic talent instead.

Improved Enhancement Weaving: At 7th level, a sphere magus's equipment enhancements always stack with existing enhancement bonuses when he spends a spell point to have the enhancement linger without concentration. He does not need to spend an additional spell point.

This replaces knowledge pool.

Flexible Doctrine: At 11th level, once per day, when she finishes resting and regains her spell points, a sphere magus may change her chosen Magus Doctrine for any of the other options.

This replaces improved spell recall.

Flexible Sphere Access: At 19th level, a sphere magus may spend a spell point as a swift action to gain access to a magic talent he does not possess. He may gain access up to a maximum of three magic talents by spending additional spell points. This effect lasts 1 minute.

This replaces greater spell access.

That's basically it, hopefully it doesn't suck too much or isn't too overpowered (which ALSO sucks). And yes, I did away with Arcane Pool. It really IS much simpler this way.


Way cool! Your handling of spell recall is very fun and creative. I think I will edit my document when I get home.

I am still iffy on my removal of arcane pool. What do you think? I noticed the hedgewitch can get a arcane pool, so I don't know. I do like that it becomes only one resource mechanic.


Nyyyeah, I'm a bit biased in that I don't like the Hedgewitch as a class that much. My favourite of the new classes so far is the Shifter, so I'm afraid I'm not the best person to ask for advice on that front. EDIT: I feel like I should elaborate a bit on WHY I don't like the Hedgewitch that much. I feel like that sort of free-form feature mixing (like the Witch hexes, or the Magus' arcane pool, which really is just extra clutter when you have to think about converting spell points into arcane points or vice-versa) is best done through archetyping, and the "can become anything" spot is already occupied by the Incanter, so why does this exist?

Still, thank you, I'm glad you like it!


Also note that this lifts the restriction on magus-only spells, as you sphere-cast everything. So you could dip for 2 levels and then go with a high-caster. Not sure how much that'd imbalance things (it doesn't feel like the benefit is that great, since you do lose BAB and stuffs), just felt like mentioning.


I would prefer to see the arcana pool stay, but I really like this conversion. Maybe keep the spell point bonus to one every two level? You do not have the extra bonus from int added again so I would not see there being a problem with balance issues. Also, sorry for the late post.

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