rules for Disguising yourself as a VERY different looking creature


Rules Questions


So, it seems to me like it shouldn't even be possible, but, looking at the disguise rules on the PRD there's nothing covering players having their characters do something like disguising a human as an animal or an extremely different looking race like a strix (or for that matter something like a strix as a human). So, what is the RAW for this? Seems like if it is allowed at all should be much more steep than just a -2, maybe like a -10 or -20.


RAW might allow it, but you also can't play by RAW alone. Some judgement will need to be used. A human can't/shouldn't disguise himself as a dog, but he might be able to pass as a vampire.


Oh, I totally agree, but, if something is clarified in a reasonable way in RAW then I prefer to use that.... plus I'm giggling a little envisioning a PC wearing a gorilla suit to disguise themselves as an awakened gorilla (which still should be probably really unlikely to fool an actual intelligent gorilla).


Farastu wrote:
Oh, I totally agree, but, if something is clarified in a reasonable way in RAW then I prefer to use that.... plus I'm giggling a little envisioning a PC wearing a gorilla suit to disguise themselves as an awakened gorilla (which still should be probably really unlikely to fool an actual intelligent gorilla).

RAW, while technically theres no penalty for anything like that, I would say an extreme form change qualifies for a circumstance penalty. The table already gives you a bit of a guideline on that, as its -10 for a size category change. You could also use the bluff guidelines as a benchmark, depending on the quality of the disguise. Like, dressing up in a Chinese parade paper dragon costume trying to pretend to be a real dragon gets a -20 for being unbelievable, while your finely made Gorilla suit would be something like -5.

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It's just a -2 and don't forget the bonuses for using MW prosthetics and such.

My favorite example

Scarab Sages

I'm inclined to agree with Calth, in the real world you'd have trouble convincingly disguising even a child as a dog (similar sizes). However in the real world you don't have people who can casually sprint for cover carrying half a ton or more, you don't have people who can hide in the shadow you cast while eavesdropping on you, you don't have beings who can see in pitch blackness because they took a feat. Pathfinder is a world of magic and mystery so yes I'd say you can effect extreme disguises if your good enough and the rules are there.

Adult human to disguise himself as female dalmation puppy.
Different Gender: -2
Different Race: -2
Different Size Category: -20 (puppy is 2 size categories down I believe)
Different Age Category: -2 (Adult disguising themself as young)
Total: -26

So for the average person they have pretty much zero chance of pulling this off. A master thief with +36 to their skill is getting 1d20 + 10 to beat opposed perception rolls and convince people their a female dalmation puppy, potentially a total of 30 even with the penalties so they can make a very convincing female puppy (edited for censoring reasons. On the other hand they could get as low as 11 which means an average person has a slightly less than 50% chance to notice something wrong.


I dunno, I've seen some pretty amazing cosplay out there.

They were all pretty much a person in a larger outfit, naturally.

-j


Yeah I can buy outfits that make someone look like a larger creature much more easily than a smaller one. I seem to recall in a Dragonlance novel someone using an elaborate dragon disguise to fool a populace for instance, which, would be amusing in game, and something similar being done in a Lamentations of the Flame Princess adventure too. So... really elaborate costumes (if they can even be called such, they are more like really well made puppets of the sort you'd see as movie props) could fool someone in the right situation I imagine.

Still... I like the idea of this being very hard to pull off, since, even an elaborate costume or "movie prop" is going to be pretty hard to really make look real enough. It makes more sense to me to add steeper penalties like Calth suggested.


As Senko pointed out, the Disguise skill has a list of modifiers which should help you figure out the DC for reasonable disguises. Of course a DM might sometimes decide that a particular disguise isn't reasonable or at least isn't reasonable without magic. An adult human male with a polymorph spell might reasonably be able to disguise himself a house cat. I'd say that wouldn't be possible without magic except in special circumstances where obstructions or perspective would prevent viewers from seeing that the man is much bigger than a housecat.

We used to have a player who would talk about casting Reduce Person, using the Escape Artist skill to enter people's bodies through various orifices, and then dismissing the spell to explode the victim. The PC was also supposed to have an ability where he could use high skill checks to make onlookers well disposed towards him so that after this stunt anybody who saw it would become helpful. I don't recall the details, but we asked him not to do that. He also wanted one of his PCs to have a face with a bite attack on his butt (the rules didn't say exactly how you gained the bite attack)


Devilkiller wrote:

...

We used to have a player who would talk about casting Reduce Person, using the Escape Artist skill to enter people's bodies through various orifices, and then dismissing the spell to explode the victim. The PC was also supposed to have an ability where he could use high skill checks to make onlookers well disposed towards him so that after this stunt anybody who saw it would become helpful. I don't recall the details, but we asked him not to do that. He also wanted one of his PCs to have a face with a bite attack on his butt (the rules didn't say exactly how you gained the bite attack)

lol

some people just go for the outlandish and take an idea to the extreme and expect it to sound reasonable. It IS a fantasy game so silly things are expected. You just have to smile and use the rules as best you can to create appropriate modifiers or say "that won't work, you might try Shapechange".

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