Future releases for 5th Edition: official announcements and what we want to see


4th Edition

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Logan1138 wrote:

There are a LOT of holdovers from newer editions (*cough* 4th Edition *cough*) which I don't like currently in 5E: spammable cantrips, hit dice healing mechanic, ignoring negative hit points and short rests "recharging" powers to name just a few. The problem I am having is determining how to "balance" a game if I strip all of

Those seem like pretty simple tweaks. Cast each cantrip once a day, use negative HP to Con instead of death saves, and use the gritty healing rules from the dmg (8 hr short rest, 7 day long rest). As for balance all these tweaks are really going to change is the number of encounters a party can tackle in an adventuring day.


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There are 3 main things I'd to see for 5e.

1st a monthly Dragon magazine (PDF is fine) for $5 a pop or so with new class archetypes, backgrounds, feats, spells etc. nothing huge. With a Dungeo. Supplement every other month or so featuring DM stuff monsters, NPCs, and a cool site based adventure.

2nd I'd like to see an annual boxed "flagship" adventure with multiple booklets, maps, and handouts. Think Undermountain or Night Below.

Lastly I'd like to see an annual Best of Dragon hardcover with the best of the new archtypes, backgrounds, etc.

I'd add an occasional new monster manual to the list, but I'm pretty confident they'll be doing that anyway :)


thejeff wrote:
2097 wrote:
thejeff wrote:
2097 wrote:
I want to see something that is both very sandboxy and very ready to run. Chock-full of interesting encounters, setups and locations.
How do sandboxy and ready to run go together?

Hence the "both". :)

Random tables. Getting a lot of mileage from just 20 out of 64 pages is awesome
I guess. I don't really see random tables as "very ready to run".

That's because you're more of a GM-Wizard and less a GM-Sorcerer.

All prep and no spont. :)


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Quark Blast wrote:
thejeff wrote:
2097 wrote:
thejeff wrote:
2097 wrote:
I want to see something that is both very sandboxy and very ready to run. Chock-full of interesting encounters, setups and locations.
How do sandboxy and ready to run go together?

Hence the "both". :)

Random tables. Getting a lot of mileage from just 20 out of 64 pages is awesome
I guess. I don't really see random tables as "very ready to run".

That's because you're more of a GM-Wizard and less a GM-Sorcerer.

All prep and no spont. :)

Even if I was a GM-Sorcerer, I wouldn't shell out for random tables. If I'm going to improvise, I'll improvise. If I'm going to buy something, I want the work done for me.


thejeff wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:
thejeff wrote:
2097 wrote:
thejeff wrote:
2097 wrote:
I want to see something that is both very sandboxy and very ready to run. Chock-full of interesting encounters, setups and locations.
How do sandboxy and ready to run go together?

Hence the "both". :)

Random tables. Getting a lot of mileage from just 20 out of 64 pages is awesome
I guess. I don't really see random tables as "very ready to run".

That's because you're more of a GM-Wizard and less a GM-Sorcerer.

All prep and no spont. :)

Even if I was a GM-Sorcerer, I wouldn't shell out for random tables. If I'm going to improvise, I'll improvise. If I'm going to buy something, I want the work done for me.

If by that you mean the tedious-but-necessary work, I'm there 100%.

That's why I always rant on Eberron - everything official is a compilation of vague notions (that often contradict), political banalities (that, if taken at face value, the PCs couldn't even begin to unravel in decades of real-time gaming), a collage of superficial plot hooks (unvarnished and straight out of pulp fiction), and poorly drawn maps (to places the PCs aren't likely to go to anyway). The gaming forums and wiki's provide far better (legal!) content at a very low cost.


Quark Blast wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:
thejeff wrote:
2097 wrote:
thejeff wrote:
2097 wrote:
I want to see something that is both very sandboxy and very ready to run. Chock-full of interesting encounters, setups and locations.
How do sandboxy and ready to run go together?

Hence the "both". :)

Random tables. Getting a lot of mileage from just 20 out of 64 pages is awesome
I guess. I don't really see random tables as "very ready to run".

That's because you're more of a GM-Wizard and less a GM-Sorcerer.

All prep and no spont. :)

Even if I was a GM-Sorcerer, I wouldn't shell out for random tables. If I'm going to improvise, I'll improvise. If I'm going to buy something, I want the work done for me.

If by that you mean the tedious-but-necessary work, I'm there 100%.

That's why I always rant on Eberron - everything official is a compilation of vague notions (that often contradict), political banalities (that, if taken at face value, the PCs couldn't even begin to unravel in decades of real-time gaming), a collage of superficial plot hooks (unvarnished and straight out of pulp fiction), and poorly drawn maps (to places the PCs aren't likely to go to anyway). The gaming forums and wiki's provide far better (legal!) content at a very low cost.

I don't think that's really relevant.

Settings are an entirely different matter.

If I'm buying "ready to run" adventures, I want the details of those adventures. Both the "story" (why the creatures are there, what they're up to, how they'll react to the PCs and hooks for the PCs to get involved) and the mechanics (what creatures are there, maps as needed, stats for anything not straight from bestiaries, treasure and gear, along with other hazards & traps).

Random tables can provide inspiration, but I can come up with that myself. In fact I usually do. I've very rarely run published stuff. Only when I don't have time for something of my own.


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thejeff, we are ruining this thread. I started a new thread on this topic, so this can go back Future releases.


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2097 wrote:
thejeff, we are ruining this thread. I started a new thread on this topic, so this can go back Future releases.

Oops! <red face>

Maybe our point is we want Future Releases to have details, and not sweeping generalities with loose tie-ins as published content.

I think too that free online supporting material would be welcome. This could include things like the author(s)' notes on what the thinking was while developing a given published product.

How's that? Back on thread? :)


Quark Blast wrote:
Maybe our point is we want Future Releases to have details, and not sweeping generalities with loose tie-ins as published content.

Perfect!

Quark Blast wrote:
I think too that free online supporting material would be welcome. This could include things like the author(s)' notes on what the thinking was while developing a given published product.

Yeah, this is great. Note that the Tyranny authors did a great podcast interview about what they were thinking.


On a separate tangent but related to future releases, here's an argument for them focusing more on the DM side.

Some, not all but more than zero, DMs think that the game can become hard to run if there are too many player books and splatbooks. Maybe not even most DMs think this but it's something I've heard often enough. I, for one, has banned the entire chapter 6 in the PHB!

On the other hand, very few players think the game suffers from the DM having too many books. Right? This is fewer? They want variety in the dungeons they explore and the city NPCs they meet?

On the third hand, as a player (I love both DMing and playing) I'd rather have very flexible classes than very many classes.


2097 wrote:

On a separate tangent but related to future releases, here's an argument for them focusing more on the DM side.

Some, not all but more than zero, DMs think that the game can become hard to run if there are too many player books and splatbooks. Maybe not even most DMs think this but it's something I've heard often enough. I, for one, has banned the entire chapter 6 in the PHB!

On the other hand, very few players think the game suffers from the DM having too many books. Right? This is fewer? They want variety in the dungeons they explore and the city NPCs they meet?

On the third hand, as a player (I love both DMing and playing) I'd rather have very flexible classes than very many classes.

This one is really hard to figure and really easy to over think... I think.

From the game publisher's POV they need to sell more stuff. And by that I mean actually sell the stuff, not just produce lots of variety. And, like most any other business, they are going to pursue what sells.

Trying to make something sell just doesn't work. Marketing types are like gamblers - thinking they have an angle to give them the edge - but really they should view themselves as simply PR for game products. PR is a good thing but it's not the only thing and it certainly won't sell bogus products... unless you're selling to the Feds :)


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2097 wrote:

On a separate tangent but related to future releases, here's an argument for them focusing more on the DM side.

Some, not all but more than zero, DMs think that the game can become hard to run if there are too many player books and splatbooks. Maybe not even most DMs think this but it's something I've heard often enough. I, for one, has banned the entire chapter 6 in the PHB!

On the other hand, very few players think the game suffers from the DM having too many books. Right? This is fewer? They want variety in the dungeons they explore and the city NPCs they meet?

On the third hand, as a player (I love both DMing and playing) I'd rather have very flexible classes than very many classes.

On the flip side, there are more players than GMs, so anything you can sell to players has a larger potential market.


The best possible selling future release will be a DM's Only (not to be read by any players) guide to starting new games.

It used to crack me up, back in the 1970's how I and my players would stake out the local hobby shop after school to see who would be the first to buy the newest module, and then fight over who was going to get to be the DM, only to find out that all of us would secretly buy it and read it before each game session. My "personal interpretation" of Tomb of Horrors, made my group so angry that they had bought the module only to find out I wasn't keeping anything the same as how it had been written up...


Well, we are five days away from the regular release date of the DM's Screen and still no official announcement for any new products from either WotC or any official partner company producing modules for them. I know they are tying module support releases to the Adventurer's League seasons, but those are planned to be six months long, with the current and first season ending in March, but going four+ months with no new adventure content for a newly released system is a dumb move, in my opinion. I know some companies have put out stuff claiming compatibility with 5th, but until an official OGL/GSL/whatever is released, I am staying away from all that other 3rd party stuff.


A lot of them are pretty smart about it, like "This monster has the same hitpoints as a 5th level fighter" etc, "This monster moves like a 4th level rogue". Works with many different editions that way, both legal editions such as Lab Lord and OSRIC, as well as the new 5th.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I want to see more feats, especially for spellcasters and +1 Int/Wis/Cha feats. I think there should be more feats that take advantage of the Advantage/Disadvantage chassis, more uses of your Proficiency bonus, and maybe even ways to get monster special actions, like blood frenzy or pack tactics or brute.

I want to see more archetypes, especially ones that emulate a lot of the Pathfinder classes, like alchemist-warlocks, cavalier-fighters, inquisitor-bard/paladin/rangers, magus-wizards, oracle-clerics, summoner-warlocks, and witch-sorcerers.

Of course new spells and monsters.

I would also like to have semi-official homebrew rules, like Arcana Unearthed. For example, my group gives PCs a number of Inspiration points equal to your Proficiency bonus. I would also like to see new uses of Inspiration, perhaps to power feats, like spend 1 Inspiration to gain blood frenzy for 1 minute. I would also like for there to be some more customization beginning at first level. Maybe something like Pathfinder traits, equivalent to 1/3 or 1/2 5th Edition feats, like a bonus skill or save proficiency. I would also like options for using weapons with more skill, like Shoving with a Greatclub crit, or being able to add the Finesse feature to a light weapon, such as the hand axe. Stuff like that.

I would also like to see a new campaign setting.

Liberty's Edge

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(1) Ravenloft adventure (original 1e redo VERBATIM as 5e, nothing related to the less than appealing 3.5e version).

(2) Ravenloft setting as a hardback (last 2nd ed. version as a template)

That's about it really, quite easy to please me :)

Shadow Lodge

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Give unto me GREYHAWK !


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Unlikely as I may be to get them, and assuming there's nothing in the license that prevents them from being produced, I'd like to see 5e converted collections of the original three Dungeon magazine adventure paths: Shackled City, Age of Worms, and Savage Tide. Other than that I'm content with the current slow release of materials.


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PDFs of the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Masters Guide are the main items on my wish list.


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I wrote a big rant on Tumblr about the thing I most want to see. I won't repeat the whole thing here, so here's a link:

For the Love of God, Wizards, Distribute Dungeons and Dragons Digitally

TL;DR -- For the love of all things holy, release PDFs.

I know people have been on Mike Mearls on this already, but seriously, Wizards, get with the program.

I'm not kidding about the offer on the bottom, either; I'm a professional layout artist (I work with AdventureAWeek right now), and I would do it for that level of terrible rate just to get it DONE.

Ken Pawlik wrote:
Unlikely as I may be to get them, and assuming there's nothing in the license that prevents them from being produced, I'd like to see 5e converted collections of the original three Dungeon magazine adventure paths: Shackled City, Age of Worms, and Savage Tide. Other than that I'm content with the current slow release of materials.

If the license allows it, I'd love to see this. If it doesn't... I'd be happy to make a free PDF conversion under Fair Use laws ;) Conversion is my favorite thing to do in the world.

Same with a 5e Ravenloft conversion.


Even though they have the free Basic Rules available on their website, I think they will eventually release PDFs of the core books, but they want to sell the physical books too. After all, the DMG only came out back in December, so give them a few months to sell them. Personally, I am giving them til summer before I get more upset about legal PDFs not being available. That gives them at least six months to sell the books and convert them to PDFs or other e-book formats for sale.


Patrik Ström wrote:
PDFs of the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Masters Guide are the main items on my wish list.

This. I'm honestly baffled that they don't appear to see this as at all important.


Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Even though they have the free Basic Rules available on their website, I think they will eventually release PDFs of the core books, but they want to sell the physical books too. After all, the DMG only came out back in December, so give them a few months to sell them. Personally, I am giving them til summer before I get more upset about legal PDFs not being available. That gives them at least six months to sell the books and convert them to PDFs or other e-book formats for sale.

Selling PDFs wouldn't cut that much into the sales of the physical books. Different people buy them for different reasons.


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It's time for game publishers to realize that people who buy books, will buy books, and people who want pdfs want pdfs, sometimes they are the same people, sometimes they are not, but clinging to old ways of doing business (Sell the books first, get that money, then release the pdf's) is not a valid model in these times.


Terquem wrote:
It's time for game publishers to realize that people who buy books, will buy books, and people who want pdfs want pdfs, sometimes they are the same people, sometimes they are not, but clinging to old ways of doing business (Sell the books first, get that money, then release the pdf's) is not a valid model in these times.

Agreed. Except pretty much every other publisher has realized this, haven't they? D&D 5 is the only RPG I own, read, or play that I cannot get in PDF.

It's an especially egregious oversight after the immolation of DungeonScape.


I suspect that a large part of why WotC is concerned about PDFs is that brick and mortar stores tend not to like them, and WotC relies far more on those stores than most publishers. Still, Paizo is showing that the two distribution methods can be balanced, even if the brick and mortar stores aren't ecstatic about it; WotC could do the same, but with Magic being tied so much to local tournaments and local support, they may not be as willing to upset their main bread and butter for their dominant product line.


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Stefan Hill wrote:

(1) Ravenloft adventure (original 1e redo VERBATIM as 5e, nothing related to the less than appealing 3.5e version).

(2) Ravenloft setting as a hardback (last 2nd ed. version as a template)

That's about it really, quite easy to please me :)

And I would like exactly opposite - redoing the vibrant, living, flavorful 3.5 Ravenloft as a setting for 5th edition instead of anything that happened to Ravenloft prior to White Wolf involvement. And possibly sending the people responsible for revoking the White Wolf licensee to a gods-forgotten office in lower Hell for the next ten thousand years.


bugleyman wrote:
Patrik Ström wrote:
PDFs of the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Masters Guide are the main items on my wish list.
This. I'm honestly baffled that they don't appear to see this as at all important.

It's not *just* pdfs though. Paizo also updates your PDF if they ever errata the book. I can't stress how important this is if you truly want a "living game". I think it's fairly obvious that WotC does not seem to have the infrastructure in place for either of these things. Twice they've tried to sink money into third party solutions and twice they have failed. I'll be surprised to see a third attempt to be honest. While we might someday see pdfs, I don't think we'll ever see a digital D&D "platform".


Darkbridger wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
Patrik Ström wrote:
PDFs of the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Masters Guide are the main items on my wish list.
This. I'm honestly baffled that they don't appear to see this as at all important.
It's not *just* pdfs though. Paizo also updates your PDF if they ever errata the book. I can't stress how important this is if you truly want a "living game". I think it's fairly obvious that WotC does not seem to have the infrastructure in place for either of these things. Twice they've tried to sink money into third party solutions and twice they have failed. I'll be surprised to see a third attempt to be honest. While we might someday see pdfs, I don't think we'll ever see a digital D&D "platform".

Thing is, they're trying to do these digital platforms because they don't want to do something as simple and hard to control as pdfs. If they actually wanted pdfs, they could put them up over the weekend (slight exaggeration.)

Shadow Lodge

TealDeer wrote:
No, 4th Edition went badly because while a solid game at its core, that game was not Dungeons and Dragons.

It's pretty easy to make that same claim about 3rd edition.

Except maybe saying that 3.x is a solid game all the way through to the core is a bit of an exaggeration.


Drejk wrote:
Stefan Hill wrote:

(1) Ravenloft adventure (original 1e redo VERBATIM as 5e, nothing related to the less than appealing 3.5e version).

(2) Ravenloft setting as a hardback (last 2nd ed. version as a template)

That's about it really, quite easy to please me :)

And I would like exactly opposite - redoing the vibrant, living, flavorful 3.5 Ravenloft as a setting for 5th edition instead of anything that happened to Ravenloft prior to White Wolf involvement. And possibly sending the people responsible for revoking the White Wolf licensee to a gods-forgotten office in lower Hell for the next ten thousand years.

The last two supplements of Ravenloft I have was created by Sword & sorcery and I think was designed for 3rd Edition. Those two books were pretty awesome for drawing inspiration and a feel of dread. I'm actually look at them to build a 5e adventure from.


thejeff wrote:
Darkbridger wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
Patrik Ström wrote:
PDFs of the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Masters Guide are the main items on my wish list.
This. I'm honestly baffled that they don't appear to see this as at all important.
It's not *just* pdfs though. Paizo also updates your PDF if they ever errata the book. I can't stress how important this is if you truly want a "living game". I think it's fairly obvious that WotC does not seem to have the infrastructure in place for either of these things. Twice they've tried to sink money into third party solutions and twice they have failed. I'll be surprised to see a third attempt to be honest. While we might someday see pdfs, I don't think we'll ever see a digital D&D "platform".
Thing is, they're trying to do these digital platforms because they don't want to do something as simple and hard to control as pdfs. If they actually wanted pdfs, they could put them up over the weekend (slight exaggeration.)

I've always wondered whether Paizo sinks any serious time and/or effort into dealing with pirated PDFs. Do they view pirated PDFs as lost sales and income? I remember there was a 4e book (the name of which escapes me) that WotC pointed to (it was copied everywhere within a few days of release) as the poster child of what was wrong with PDF distribution. Compared to the steadily churning Paizo machine, it always felt like a strange over-reaction on WotC's part. I mean Hasbro has a LOT more money to throw at this problem, and yet even the basics elude them.

Sovereign Court

Darkbridger wrote:


I've always wondered whether Paizo sinks any serious time and/or effort into dealing with pirated PDFs. Do they view pirated PDFs as lost sales and income? I remember there was a 4e book (the name of which escapes me) that WotC pointed to (it was copied everywhere within a few days of release) as the poster child of what was wrong with PDF distribution. Compared to the steadily churning Paizo machine, it always felt like a strange over-reaction on WotC's part. I mean Hasbro has a LOT more money to throw at this problem, and yet even the basics elude them.

I believe that it was "Players Manual 3" that was the tipping point. I have to wonder what benefit, if any, was gained from their retreat from pdf sales.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Darkbridger wrote:
I've always wondered whether Paizo sinks any serious time and/or effort into dealing with pirated PDFs. Do they view pirated PDFs as lost sales and income?

I dont know how they view them, but I know they take the issue seriously when it occurs.

There have been a smattering of "paizo treated a friend of a friend of mine so unfairly...." posts, over the years. As well as one or two firsthand claims of being 'unjustly punished' when pirated PDFs have surfaced.

As I understand it, the US take on copyright and/or trademark laws require you to protect your IP when you become aware of inappropriate usage or else you run the risk of allowing it into the public domain. (It's always seemed to me, presuming the above is true, that WotC cop a lot of unfair flak when they close down sites with D&D in the title or send similar 'cease and desist' letters. The TTRPG market is probably irrelevant, but they can hardly allow their IP into the public domain in the bigger scheme of things).

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I'd like to see 5th Edition Modern.

And dare I dream? Firefly 5th Edition.

Shadow Lodge

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So far, the lack of a continual torrent of splat is something I consider a good thing. Hell, if the only non-adventure supplements to come out were more Monster Manuals, I'd be perfectly happy with that.


SmiloDan wrote:

I'd like to see 5th Edition Modern.

And dare I dream? Firefly 5th Edition.

Smilo, have you seen this? I can't say the Star Frontiers/5E conversion is exactly Firefly, but it gives you a few more scifi skill checks to integrate into your game. :)

Shadow Lodge

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There's also the Cortex Plus Firefly RPG.


The Cortex? I've never heard of that RPG :P

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Removed a post and the replies to it. We're really not comfortable opening up detailed discussion about the employment/inner workings of other companies on our site.

Dark Archive

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed a post and the replies to it. We're really not comfortable opening up detailed discussion about the employment/inner workings of other companies on our site.

Fair enough


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Steve Geddes wrote:
As I understand it, the US take on copyright and/or trademark laws require you to protect your IP when you become aware of inappropriate usage or else you run the risk of allowing it into the public domain. (It's always seemed to me, presuming the above is true, that WotC cop a lot of unfair flak when they close down sites with D&D in the title or send similar 'cease and desist' letters. The TTRPG market is probably irrelevant, but they can hardly allow their IP into the public domain in the bigger scheme of things).

True for trademarks, but untrue for copyright.


Lorathorn wrote:
I believe that it was "Players Manual 3" that was the tipping point. I have to wonder what benefit, if any, was gained from their retreat from pdf sales.

What benefit could there be? The PDFs are still available instantly. Only the people trying to obey the law suffer, while WotC loses a source of revenue. To anyone paying attention, this argument was settled -- conclusively -- at least a decade ago.

At best, I'd guess this made some middle manager feel better because "something was done" about the problem.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Hitdice wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

I'd like to see 5th Edition Modern.

And dare I dream? Firefly 5th Edition.

Smilo, have you seen this? I can't say the Star Frontiers/5E conversion is exactly Firefly, but it gives you a few more scifi skill checks to integrate into your game. :)

Oh, neat!

I mean, shiny!!!

Thanks!

:-D

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