Please help with a Swashbuckler or Daring Champion for WotWicked


Advice


First, thanks in advance to everyone for the helpful advice.

As mentioned in the subject line, I am going to run a Daring Champion Cavalier or (less likely) a Swashbuckler for an upcoming run through the Way of the Wicked AP.

I will be running a Human in all likelihood as my understanding is that they are prevalent in the campaign setting. I do like Halflings also, but they may be hindered with penalties for small size for the intimidate skill and with having more trouble "blending in".

My initial thoughts are to place an emphasis on either or both intimidation and dirty tricks besides straight DPR dealing. I am pretty sure I will take the antagonize feat fairly early (not barred to my knowledge by the GM).

We rolled for stats using the unique system in the AP. With a human, I know that my stat array will look something like this:

Strength 8 or 10
Dexterity 20
Constitution 16
Intelligence 8 or 10 or 11
Wisdom 8 or 11
Charisma 16

I am leaning towards using a rapier for the weight and crit stats given my low strength, although this is still not resolved (cutlass or scimitar are other possibilities).

The DM is doing an unusual thing in making our group keep secret our character choices from the other players until we start, so I cannot tell you our group make-up.

I may well dip a level of archaeologist bard for the luck pool to help with saves, to hit, damage, and skills (especially intimidate and diplomacy with antagonize). If I do this dip, I will for sure take Fate's Favored as one of my two traits. Also, this will help me hide my alignment and with my disguise skill, along with opening up Bard wands since I am unlikely to take UMD.

There is no doubt that I'll take either slashing grace or fencing grace depending on my weapon choice.

some feats that sound interesting include lingering performance (only with bard dip), improved dirty trick and its iterations (including quickened dirty trick etc.).

Any thoughts on ideas for this concept along these lines:

1. Swashbuckler or Daring champion cavalier?

2. If Swashbuckler, base or an archetype (inspired blade sounds good with rapier)?

3. If Daring Champion, what order? (Flame and cockatrice both look good)

4. Trait choices?

5. Feat choices?

Thanks so much for your input!!


Just gonna mention that you really don't need 16 CHA. You could dump it down to 7/8 even, and then just grab extra panache, or any of the plaethora of panache granting items.

Aside from that, while Order of the Flame is great, you could instead go with any other order, and then just grab the Chain Challenge feat (Order of the Flame is still great if you are short on feats or want to build up your damage bonus).


True, but then my intimidate will be terrible along with diplomacy for antagonize. The working concept is to be a character who can do both those things along with bluff and disguise in order to have some ability to appear as a someone else (we will be convicted criminals and may need to keep a low profile). I do see your point there, though.

Thanks for bringing my attention to the chain challenge feat, too.


Any other thoughts on feats, traits, dip, swashbuckler or daring champion?


Wow LoneKnave, thanks for pointing out Chain Challenge is a thing.

I do love me some Order of the Flame though; I love the high risk - high reward. Parry and Reposte does well to offset the fighting styles flaw.

Other than the over used Order of the Cockatrice, what order would you reccomend?


I have a soft spot for Order of the Hammer, purely because it has an ability called Inspiring Flex.

You could also make an incredible DEX grappler/unarmed combatant out of it if you dip Monk (Maneuver Master, or Master of Many Styles).


I had been considering a maneuver master monk dip. it really does look good as you mentioned with the concept of the debuffing and melee combo.


Order of the hammer would of been so great if it powered up Unarmed Strike as well if you had the feat.

Liberty's Edge

Hey there!
May I can help you with a thread of mine.
It really uses the intimidate mechanic. The Pirate flavour can be ignored, so you may find some ideas there!

Greetings.


Diminuendo wrote:
Order of the hammer would of been so great if it powered up Unarmed Strike as well if you had the feat.

It's very minor damage bonus. Plus you can use it with Enforcer.

I mean, it's mostly a worthless ability when you compare it to Blue Rose's flat of the blade, but the challenge ability is SO good.

If only there was a way to get more challenges/day or have a way for more flexible challenges... Then again, haven't dug too deep.


Is 3pp allowed?


If you are going to do a rapier then you need fenching grace! It adds dex to damage.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Is 3pp allowed?

3pp? Do you mean third party publications? Not likely. Haven't checked with the GM but our crew generally has not used these.


Vahanian 89 wrote:
If you are going to do a rapier then you need fenching grace! It adds dex to damage.

Agreed can't do without this or slashing grace with cutlass, scimitar or something else. I don't see how there is much difference besides weight and damage type as between the above given they all threaten crits in the same range and do the same damage ( and perhaps for the "feel" of the character).


The whole campaign is whole party so id argue that at least stuff from the same company should pass. Sadly the only thing i can remember from them is an archetype for the antipaladin.

Mind you - dont dump wisdom. There are going to be some willsaves you dont necessarily want to fail. If your GM makes a mistake at some point you're likely to fall from quite a high tower because of panic. Silly way to die when there aren't even any enemies around.


Westerner wrote:
Vahanian 89 wrote:
If you are going to do a rapier then you need fenching grace! It adds dex to damage.
Agreed can't do without this or slashing grace with cutlass, scimitar or something else. I don't see how there is much difference besides weight and damage type as between the above given they all threaten crits in the same range and do the same damage ( and perhaps for the "feel" of the character).

The cutlass is slightly better than the rapier just because DR/Slashing is more common than DR/Piercing. It's a really minor difference, though.


Thanks all for the words of wisdom -- very helpful!


Arachnofiend wrote:
Westerner wrote:
Vahanian 89 wrote:
If you are going to do a rapier then you need fenching grace! It adds dex to damage.
Agreed can't do without this or slashing grace with cutlass, scimitar or something else. I don't see how there is much difference besides weight and damage type as between the above given they all threaten crits in the same range and do the same damage ( and perhaps for the "feel" of the character).
The cutlass is slightly better than the rapier just because DR/Slashing is more common than DR/Piercing. It's a really minor difference, though.

Slashing Grace also lets you treat the weapon you use as piercing, so the difference between Rapier with Fencing Grace and Cutlass with Slashing Grace is the Rapier has a +2 against disarm while the Cutlass can get through DR/slashing. Both can beat DR/piercing.

Liberty's Edge

GeneMemeScene wrote:
Slashing Grace also lets you treat the weapon you use as piercing, so the difference between Rapier with Fencing Grace and Cutlass with Slashing Grace is the Rapier has a +2 against disarm while the Cutlass can get through DR/slashing. Both can beat DR/piercing.

This is incorrect. To quote:

Slashing Grace wrote:
...you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon...

Emphasis mine. So...it only counts as piercing for Feats and Class Abilities. Nothing else.

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